Do GLP-1 medications help PCOS (PMOS) beyond weight loss?

Yes, there’s early evidence that GLP-1 medications can help specific markers in PCOS, now called PMOS, independent of weight loss. Research reviewed by PCOS specialist Julie Duffy Dillon found improvement in triglycerides, insulin regulation, blood sugar, and androgen levels at low doses, particularly when GLP-1s are combined with metformin. These findings target the underlying insulin resistance found in an estimated 75 to 95 percent of people with PCOS, not just the appetite suppression that drives weight loss.

The research is still limited. Ovulation and inflammation markers were found to be too early to assess, since most studies involve small groups over short timeframes. LDL cholesterol showed no improvement in available research. This means GLP-1s should not be presented as a cure or a guaranteed fix for PCOS symptoms broadly, but as a potential tool for specific metabolic markers.

Dosing matters significantly. Most available research on insulin and metabolic improvement used lower doses, similar to those originally developed for type 2 diabetes, rather than the higher doses used specifically for weight loss. Most insurance coverage for GLP-1s requires documented weight loss, which creates an access barrier for people who want the lower, insulin-focused dose without the higher dose’s more significant weight loss and eating disorder relapse risk.

For anyone with PCOS considering a GLP-1, the current research supports a cautious, individualized conversation with a weight-neutral provider rather than a blanket yes or no. The medication’s value appears to be in addressing insulin resistance directly, not in weight loss as a proxy for health.

Transcript 

[00:00:00] plug in and instead of having to, like, reinstall it, you know? Is it a trauma healing phase you’re in? You’re like, “I don’t wanna-” I don’t know if trauma’s the right word, but I mean, I definitely was like, “I’m done with this for a while,” you know? So- Yeah … so that’s, that’s all, you know. Okay. I like doing podcasts, I just didn’t wanna create any more of my own.

[00:00:20] Yeah. Don’t wanna … didn’t have to produce it. Yeah, that was, that was it. Yes. I know you understand. Listen, I don’t wanna talk too much off recording because I want this to be a catch-up conversation. Perfect. So I’ve hit record already. Mm-hmm. I’m gonna welcome you to the podcast, quickly introduce you, and then we’ll record our catch-up conversation.

[00:00:43] Perfect. Okay. And then we’ll talk about PCOS, PMOS, and GLP-1, and your book, and all the things. Awesome. Okay? Sounds lovely. Welcome to the show, Julie Thanks for having me on. It’s nice to see you again. Yeah. It’s been a year and a half, [00:01:00] Julie was on the podcast. Wow. That’s a long time. March 2025. Mm-hmm. So I’m gonna quickly introduce you, and then I’ll get to why you were on the podcast before.

[00:01:09] So Julie Duffy Dillon is a registered dietician specializing in intuitive eating and PCOS, which is the reason why we are here. Or PMOS, now that’s- Whatever, yeah. We’ll get- we’ll get to this in a minute. And she’s also the author of Find Your Voice… Find Your Food Voice. Mm-hmm. Find Your Voice was your podcast.

[00:01:31] Find Your Voice, book, that she published, and that’s why she was on the podcast. Mm-hmm. Episode 425 of our 10 years running of our podcast. So you’re writing a new book? I am, yes. That’s what I saw on LinkedIn. I’m like, “Oh my God, I gotta catch up with her. What’s up with that?” Yes. I’m so excited. It’s the book that I’ve been wanting to write for, like, 20 years now, and it’s, um, a PCOS or a [00:02:00] PMOS book, of course.

[00:02:01] Um, we’re all getting used to the new name, and I’ve given myself all of 2026 to adjust. So- Okay … yeah, they’re interchangeable for me right now. But yeah, so it’s going to be a book with all of the practice-based evidence I have from working with people with PCOS, and all the research I can find to add to it.

[00:02:22] And so you can have all in one place. Like, and a way to help manage your PCOS through any season, whether you’re just diagnosed or you’re in mid-life or beyond. And it’s not like another rigid diet. It’s like, hey, what can I add to my life instead of taking another thing away to feel miserable? Um, yeah, so I’m excited.

[00:02:44] And it’ll be out in January of 2028, which I know seems so far away, but it’s, it’s really not. Like, what? A year and a half? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Oh, from an author perspective, that’s like rushing. Like- Yeah … you must be all into that right now. Oh, yeah. [00:03:00] Oh, about- A third, a little bit more than, than a third of the way done writing it, so yeah, yeah.

[00:03:06] Oh, congratulations on your second- Thank you … book deal. Thank you. Yeah. I, I love writing, and I love writing about PCOS in particular, so this is, this is- Yeah … really a great for me You’ve been the PCOS expert that I know of for years. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. That’s been your thing. Yeah, yeah. And you know, I… It was something that I felt very alone doing for years and years, and I’m so glad there are more people who are finally like, “Oh yeah, I wanna help people with this too,” ’cause there’s so many people who have this condition and need- Yeah

[00:03:36] support, so I welcome it. So clearly you’re the expert in this, and so I want the rest of the episode to be all about PCOS. And we’ll start with the… And I saw a post from you that says PCOS/PMOS. So- Uh-huh … let’s deep dive into the name change business of PCOS. [00:04:00] Yeah. Why is this happening, and- Like, let’s dive into this.

[00:04:04] Why is that happening? Yeah. So PCOS, you know, and if we say the whole name, polycystic over- ovary syndrome, it comes across as this reproductive, uh, condition that only impacts fertility, and, um, really doesn’t highlight how this is not just something that happens in reproductive years. And not everybody has fertility impact, and not everybody wants to have children.

[00:04:34] So, uh, there’s, like, all these other things that can kinda come into play with it. And they’re actually not cysts. Like, that, that’s also the part of it. Like, it’s like it’s… There’s not even a cyst issue. It was just misnamed. These are really immature follicles. So it’s been discussed for as long that I’ve been working in PCOS care to, like, have a better name, but it’s been so, uh, [00:05:00] complicated because in medicine, in funding, um, and, like, discussing diagnostics, like, having a name is really important just to kind of, like, keep things kinda tidy, right?

[00:05:13] And certainly from a place of, like, advocacy. It also helps people to, like, name what they’re experiencing, which is already really hard with PCOS because a lot of it’s invisible. So it took a long time, and it’s still messy, but the new name incorporates more of actually what’s happening. And I really wish they would’ve kept the same letters.

[00:05:36] I think that would’ve been nice for many different people, especially for people with the condition to be able to have community and things like that. But the new name is polyendocrine metabolic. Um, no polyendocrine metabolic ovary syndrome. See? It’s not rolling off the tongue anymore like PCOS did. So anyway, at least now the, the polyendocrine metabolic, like [00:06:00] that section of it helps us to appreciate that there’s many different hormones, it impacts metabolism and os- also ovaries possibly.

[00:06:09] Um, and Uh, will it really improve things? I mean, time will tell. Um, it’s something that I think better helps people at diagnosis be like, “Oh, this is something that’s gonna, like, be a whole body condition, not just my ovaries.” And we care about you as a whole person, not just your ovaries. Um, and y- I do have some fears with it, you know, with the word metabolism in there.

[00:06:35] Is it just gonna be another way to label it as, like, “Oh, you just need to lose weight”? Yeah. Um, it certainly i- impacts metabolism and how our body uses energy, and, like, is able to use food and things like that. And, you know, my thing that I know is that weight change doesn’t cause it, so why would losing weight cure it?

[00:06:55] Um, it’s still that, that side of it, but yeah. [00:07:00] So that’s- … that’s what’s going on. That, that brings you up to date. So that’s the fact. What I’m curious about is the expert, the person who’s been in this industry, the business of PCOS for 10 years. How do you feel about the name change? Is it a good thing? Is that a bad thing?

[00:07:16] I mean, it’s … There’s some nuance, right? Like, I do appreciate how it is not having the word cyst anymore, ’cause that was annoying to me. That inc- is more of a holistic name. And again, I wish they would’ve kept the same letters, because my concern now is it, it’s already so hard to connect in community for people with this condition.

[00:07:39] It’s a very isolating, shameful kind of condition. I, I wish it wasn’t, but that’s just how society has kind of pushed it to be. And so connecting with other people with it I see as, like, the most powerful way to promote health. And changing the name, I think, is gonna make that really, really messy. It could possibly increase funding, so that’s great, ’cause [00:08:00] PCOS research- Oh

[00:08:00] is so hard to come by. Um, you know, having different words in there, it’s, it’s gonna allow to kind of catch on with different type of funding sources. But having a new name means they kind of need to start all over again- Really? … with … Yeah. Well, start all over again, I mean, um, with advocacy, with, like, people recognizing the letters and being like, “Oh, yeah.

[00:08:22] Oh, I know someone with that.” Um, i- in, um, PCOS Challenge is this advocacy organization that every year puts together, um, uh, this huge push to Congress to help with awareness and funding. And I think about them in particular. You know, they’ve worked so hard to, um- Teach people who actually make decisions on funding- Lobby

[00:08:44] about PCOS. Yes, exactly. And, you know, every year, you know, people like me who, um, don’t have PCOS but help people with it, and then people with PCOS, we would get together and do these pitches to people in, in Congress in the US. And, um, now at least there’s [00:09:00] this new name that they have to like kind of- Mm-hmm

[00:09:02] reteach, and it’s, it… So it’s messy. That’s, I mean, that’s just basically. Like, any change is messy, right, though? So, and for me, I’m comfortable with that. Like, yeah, change is hard. It’s gonna be messy. But I also don’t have the condition, so I’m like It’s gonna be hard. Yeah. Yeah. Is… So PCOS with the word cis- Mm-hmm

[00:09:24] is, is it an, uh, more advanced research, like understanding more the condition that has led to that name change in the evolution to a metabolic syndrome? Like, is there, like, recent research update that has accumulated to this name change? And if so, what are the most recent update in research? So every five years, there’s these evidence-based guidelines that are published that are really thorough and, um, [00:10:00] have, um, hundreds of people to help write them.

[00:10:04] And I’m trying to think, like, when was the first one I read. I mean, the last one was in 2023, so probably- 2021 … in the early 2000s. Yeah. So, um, when they f- I don’t even remember when they first started doing them, but for as long as I’ve worked in PCOS care, we’ve known about, oh yeah, most people have high insulin levels.

[00:10:24] The name PCOS does not incorporate that at all. Um, within the last 10, 12 years, uh, researchers have noted that people with PCOS and are, are in a, a chronic pro-inflammatory state. So that’s not, um, PCOS has nothing with that either. So we’ve known in research for a long time. It’s not like there was something in the last few years that was like, oh yes, um, now we can change it.

[00:10:48] It, it’s been well-established. It just wasn’t a good name, and it’s just something that research had for so long was just focus on, uh, the menstrual cycle in [00:11:00] PCOS- Yeah … and that’s all the research really was looking at for a long time. So it just is catching up is really what I think is happening. Um. So that’s gonna lead me to the next part of a conversation I wanna have with you.

[00:11:15] You may not be aware of that, but I’ve done for the last- Okay … two and a half months, I’ve done an extensive series on GLP-1 and a weight-neutral approach. Oh, great. Nice. And it was like we took every angle of it and deep dive into it for an hour. We didn’t do anything on PCOS/PMOS- Oh … so I wanna have this conversation with you.

[00:11:40] However, I’m curious. So now that I know the whole back end of GLP-1, the marketing push behind- Yes … it. Yes. Is there a link between broadening the name, like catching up the name- Mm … to PMOS, is [00:12:00] there a push behind that from the GLP-1 manufacturer, pharmaceutical complex to have the name changed so can then be associated- Mm

[00:12:09] with GLP-1? Mm-hmm. Stephanie, I love how your brain works. You’re asking the good questions. Like, I… So I don’t know, but I can speculate in the same… I, like, I- I see where your brain is going and I’m like- I see … “That’s very interesting.” Uh, and something to just name is there’s no current FDA-approved medication for PCOS.

[00:12:37] As many people- Uh-huh … that have this condition, they’re, everything’s off-label. Okay. There are little whispers that happen in the PCOS space where we hear about things, and one of the whispers is that there is a, a medication going through trials that could possibly [00:13:00] be the FDA-approved medication finally for PCOS, and that it does incorporate a GLP-1.

[00:13:05] So I see the smile on your face. But yeah, like- I spent 15 hours interviewing specialists. I’m like, I’m so not surprised. Yeah. Like, by default I became a weight neutral GLP-1 expert. And, like, I’m hearing you talk, I’m like, “Ugh, I knew it.” That’s why I wanted you- Mm-hmm … on the podcast. I mean, it’s not based on, like, oh, I have proof, but you know, that’s- No

[00:13:35] that’s, it’s convenient timing. And that’s, like… And, and you’ll hear as we talk about GLP-1s and PCOS, like, I don’t have, like, yes or no to say you should or shouldn’t use it. Um, I think that the way that that’s currently being pushed is really messing with things. It could be a lot safer if it was done differently.

[00:13:55] Um, so I’ll be curious to see, like, how much of a GLP-1 is in this [00:14:00] medication. Um- And, uh, my fear with the metabolism part, like I said, is that it’s gonna be all of a weight focus. Yeah. As like, this is the measure of health. And of course, with GLP-1s, that’s the fear as well too, right? Weight loss at all costs.

[00:14:18] Okay, so let’s take that and, like, break it down into two things. Okay. Let’s go back to the basic of PCOS/P- PMOS. It- you’re saying there’s no labeled approved- Mm-hmm … medication for it. Do we understand the mechanism of PCOS, PMOS as we stand today, July 2026? Is there any evidence today- Uh-huh … like, with the latest research, and if so, why is there no medication?

[00:14:51] Mm-hmm. Okay, so that’s a, a very, um, s- stepwise answer. Okay, so [00:15:00] understanding PCOS is that it’s, it’s a very complicated condition, just like many syndromes, right? And there’s genetic, there’s environment, there’s, um, disruptions in, um, different hormonal regulations, um, areas in our brain, in particular the HPA access, uh, the…

[00:15:21] Oh, gosh. I’m like, now I’m like, did I wanna remember what the H stands for? Yeah. Hyperthyroid? No, not hyperthyroid. I’ll, I’ll think of it after I move on. Yeah. Um, sometimes when I’m on talking in a podcast, I can’t remember simple things. But HPA access. And, um, you know, I’ve done a lot of writing on the causes of PCOS and how en- environment impacts it, because I, I noticed that so much of the blame is on weight and food, and, you know, food is a part of our environment, so okay, I can accept that, but it’s also other things.

[00:15:56] And, you know, I did this one, um, research deep dive [00:16:00] essay on trauma and how that impacts PCOS, and what I uncovered was really, uh, I don’t know, it surprised me what I found in the research. And it’s like, it wasn’t that it was, uh… This was research that already exists. It’s not like this is something that was new that I was reporting on.

[00:16:18] It was just like this, this is already there, that when people are children and experience trauma, especially chronic trauma, that contributes to the actual development of it, how it changes how, um, the brain is able to function. In particular, if people are born with certain genetic traits, how it overloads the system and promotes this hormonal dysregulation.

[00:16:42] And so, you know, it’s a very complex condition is basically what it comes down to. It’s- it has some genetic similarities to diabetes, you know, it’s still mostly genetic, um, and very similar to that. So we know some of it, we just don’t know all of it, right? And there’s not [00:17:00] like there’s a couple different genetic markers that they’ve been able to identify.

[00:17:03] But again, it’s not like it’s this. There’s no test like if you have strep throat or not, right? Um Your other question, I already forget. But I remember there was a- So just… I’ll ask the second question just a minute. Yeah. So that’s why it’s called a syndrome. For people that- Sí … who may- Yes, yes … like Le- Lehmann-Sternberg syndrome is a collection of symptoms- Mm-hmm

[00:17:25] then when associated together, get to a diagnosis of PCOS- Mm-hmm … PMOS. Did I explain this right? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Is that so? For sure, yeah. Yeah. That’s why it’s called a syndrome, because- Mm-hmm … there’s no direct A equal B here formula. Yeah. Like, there’s no direct… Just when you have that many symptoms, you can get diagnosed with this.

[00:17:44] Mm-hmm. And it’s probably why there’s not a, quote, “medication”, like a, here, take this, and then PCOS will go away, because the symptoms may be coming from different sources. Yeah, yeah. Is that the logic behind it? [00:18:00] Yes. And people experience different symptoms. There’s not an exact, like, experience. And, you know, something I wanna mention, ’cause I always think it’s important to mention, when we talk about the causes of PCOS, is, uh, if you’re listening and you have this condition, you didn’t cause it.

[00:18:18] Like, you didn’t eat the wrong thing or gain too much weight or not exercise enough or, you know, whatever. Like, the, this is such a complex condition, and again, there’s, like, real research on the, the genetics and how trauma impacts it. Like, these are things that are not in your control, you know? This is something that happens to someone, and sometimes it’s just the cards you’re dealt, just like many other syndromes, right?

[00:18:43] So- Yeah … but yeah, you didn’t actually cause it. So there’s no labeled approved medication- Mm-hmm … because of the complexity of the root cause, because of the variety of symptoms. Mm-hmm. Now let’s connect it with GLP-1, [00:19:00] because me and you in practice… So first of all, I wanna say you have a amazing Substack.

[00:19:04] That’s where you publish those essays, so we’re gonna put- Mm-hmm … the link of it in the show notes. Thank you. If you do have PCOS, PMOS, or your patients or clients have that, you should subscribe to get, like- Mm-hmm … your most recent thoughts around that. You’re also… Do you still run your membership with patients?

[00:19:21] Nope, I’m just writing right now. Just writing. Just writing. Writing in my garage. And that’s why you closed your podcast too. Let’s talk about that- Yes … right? Yes. I ha- You said your podcast was 10 years old. Mine was too. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. We started at the same time. That’s just so amazing. Uh, we’re the OGs, I guess, huh?

[00:19:38] Yeah. I had a podcast that was, um, not just about PCOS, but about a complicated history with food, and yeah- Yeah … I closed that in, uh, the spring. Mm-hmm. To dedicate to writing this book on PCOS- Mm-hmm … slash PMOS. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was time to turn off the mic, yeah. Yeah. Uh, and move on to Substack. Exactly, exactly.

[00:19:57] I mean, I’ll do something else eventually, but for right now, it’s just [00:20:00] the, this is the season, so. Well, it is the season, because when you write a book, you deep dive into research, into writing- Mm-hmm … and then you gotta promote the thing, so- Exactly … that’s what’s gonna happen in 2028- It’s a lot of work … as well, right?

[00:20:10] Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly Okay. So let’s talk about the reality, the clinical observation and what people face. Most people, when being diagnosed, are faced with- Mm … two things. Weight caused- Mm-hmm … the PCOS, and then insulin resistance because you, quote, “ate too much carbs/sugar.” Right. And this is where my fear goes, because that’s the whole- Mm

[00:20:35] narrative behind GLP-1, right? Mm-hmm. Weight causes the disease. It’s not your fault, but weight causes the disease. Yeah. It, and some people, I’ll add one more thing, some people are being currently prescribed GLP-1 for their PCOS diagnosis. Mm-hmm. Like, it’s, like, happening- Yeah, for sure … day in and day out. For sure.

[00:20:55] Mm-hmm. Because the blame is on weight and [00:21:00] carbohydrate metabolism. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Is that… What do you think of that? Let’s open the topic there. Well, again, I think it’s, uh, something that deserves a lot of sifting through and nuance. Yeah. And there’s not a yes/no. There’s lots of gray. And I can’t tell you I’m for or against black and white with GLP-1s and PCOS.

[00:21:25] And, you know, I was a diabetes educator for the, for many years before I started working with PCOS and eating disorders, and I was at a conference when they announced the, like, the invent- or the discovery of GLP-1s, and everyone’s crying. And I was like, “What?” I was very young. What is going on? Yeah. And, uh, I had patients taking Byetta, which was, like, the first iteration of GLP-1s, and when I started specializing in PCOS, I remember being like, “Oh, I wonder if this is something that will be used for it.”

[00:21:58] And the reason why I said that is [00:22:00] because of PCOS, you know, having this condition, for most people, not everyone, but it’s, it’s estimated to be, um, that 75 to 95% of people with PCOS have some kind of insulin resistance. And I would say it’s probably even closer to 95%. Wow. There’s probably some, uh, misdiagnosis for the lower end.

[00:22:22] But the other thing is, as a person gets older with PCOS, the longer you live with any condition, it gets worse, and- Yeah … usually insulin resistance is gonna be a part of it. So that’s important just to know. And, um, part of insulin resistance, uh, for PCOS is this, like you said, this carbohydrate metabolism going awry.

[00:22:42] And, uh, understanding why this happens, it’s important to understand that… And y- I’m sure you’ve done so much of the, the, like, explaining of GLP-1s and incretins and how that’s a big part of it. And, you know, with, with these incretins, how they’re, like, [00:23:00] naturally released from your gut, um, and in response to, to eating, and then your body is releasing insulin.

[00:23:08] But what researchers are noting with this insulin resistance with PCOS, with type 2 diabetes, with the type of diabetes that kind of comes from insulin resistance, how, um- incretins are not, um, being, like released enough, or there’s something that’s breaking down. Yeah. And in, in particular with PCOS, the thing that makes it different than typical insulin resistance is there is so much insulin, so much more than there is with diabetes.

[00:23:36] That’s what makes PCOS different from diabetes, is there’s this abundance of insulin, so much so that, like A1Cs are usually normal even though people are like, “I feel miserable.” Um, and so that’s why when I was first starting to learn about PCOS, I was like, GLP-1s maybe? Mm-hmm. And, and, and you know, that was [00:24:00] 2006, 2008, ’10, like in there.

[00:24:03] GLP-1s at that point were very low dose. You know- Yeah … low and slow, and it was this last resort medication for Type 2 diabetes because of the risks, the side effects, and things like that. Um- ‘Cause, you know, when you’re, when you’re injecting or I guess now taking a pill, uh, and Byetta I think was a pill, but nobody liked it.

[00:24:24] Or no, no, it wasn’t Byetta. There was another GLP-1 that started with an R. Can’t remember the name. But it had so many side effects that people hated it, and so they stopped making it, but of course now they’re making it again. Um, when a person’s taking a GLP-1, um, it’s like a fire hose instead of a trickle of incretins that they get, um, which I don’t know if, if, I don’t think I’ve mentioned this yet, but incretins are a type of GLP-1, right?

[00:24:49] And, um, so it’s different, so that’s why this like low and slow kind of rate was what I was like, “Oh, that’d be really cool for PCOS,” and that’s what was used for so long. But then of course people were [00:25:00] like, “Wait, there’s weight loss,” so they’re starting to use a ton more GLP-1s to get more of that weight loss.

[00:25:06] And I was really interested in, besides the weight loss, because you and I both work from the same perspective of like, okay, so there’s weight loss, but like let’s talk about health, because we have d- separated that. And I also know most people stop taking these GLP-1s within a year, so what happens afterwards?

[00:25:27] And I, um, I feel really lucky, like because I’ve worked in PCOS for so long a- and also in this anti-diet space, I’ve had a chance to talk to a lot of people who have, uh, experimented with GLP-1s with their PCOS who are also like fat activists or eating disorder, uh, therapists or dieticians, and they have told me what it has, has been like.

[00:25:49] And, and some were saying like, “Even when I stopped taking it, my symptoms were still improved.” Um, like they were still experiencing lower androgens and lower insulin, more energy. [00:26:00] Not everyone, but some people were, so I was like, “Well, that’s really interesting.” So that’s why I wanted to do this like deep dive essay on it.

[00:26:08] I’m like, I need to devote a month to like reading everything I can. And so I was like, I’m just looking at PCOS. There’s lots of research on diabetes and, um, I don’t know, like, uh, cholesterol and, um, insulin levels and blood sugar. I was like, no, I wanna just know for PCOS. And is it okay to kinda go into at this point what I- Oh, yeah

[00:26:31] read about? Yeah, go right ahead. Okay. Okay. Because that’s what everybody wanna know about. That’s good. Is like, like, uh, like is there any substantial evidence? I think the big thing right now, I’m just gonna pause and debrief a little bit. Yeah. What I understood from you that I didn’t know before is that the- The, the mechanism of the insulin production is different from type 2 diabetes and insulin, which is really important to understand.

[00:26:57] Mm-hmm. Which then brings me to the next question. [00:27:00] Is there specific research understanding the mechanism of PCOS and insulin to demonstrate that GLP-1 is effective? And for the listener, if you’re, if you haven’t listened yet to the GLP-1 Weight Neutral series, I would refer you to the episode with Regan Chaston that we did- Mm-hmm

[00:27:21] because we deep dive into the kind of the two ways GLP-1 is being prescribed, the low dose, which is the- Mm-hmm … originating- Mm-hmm … reason why GLP-1 were created, low dose for type 2 diabetes, and the high dose, the qu- the super dose or the weight loss dose, which is the higher dose. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So in the low dose world, the original GLP-1, is there any evidence that it does support helping with insulin mechanism related to PCOS?

[00:27:55] There is some. Okay. So, um, [00:28:00] something to appreciate with PCOS, and again, that’s why this syndrome is messy, right? Not everyone has the same experiences, but if you have intense carb cravings, if you have really painful fatigue, um, ovulation issues, if your androgens, um, cause hair growth that you don’t like or hair loss you don’t like, um, not everyone has those.

[00:28:24] You may have some of those or all of ’em. Um, that’s what research, um, I was looking for is like- Yeah … where can it help with PCOS management and like- Mm-hmm … the symptoms. So again, with PCOS, because there are, for most people, there is going to be some kind of issue with insulin, having an overproduction of insulin.

[00:28:45] And, and something I didn’t mention is like with PCOS, when there’s not enough of these incretins and, um, the body just makes more and more and more insulin, the insulin that’s made in response to low amounts of incretins is [00:29:00] not really like the sharpest insulin. You know, it’s, it’s kind of like, um, um, you know, I don’t know if, um, this rings any bells for you, but it reminds me of like, uh, gluconeogenesis in the liver.

[00:29:11] Like, when our, when we eat food and it breaks down to glucose, um, it can provide energy, but then our liver can make its own glucose through gluconeogenesis, but the glucose is not as great. You know, it’s kind of the same. And so- Like Diet Coke and real Coke, right? I mean, I guess they hit different, yeah.

[00:29:29] And so, um, so the, the, the, um, GLP-1, what it can potential- what it, what researchers found is it, because it helps to make more of the incretins, it makes more of the mo- better functioning insulin. Okay. So, um, holding all of that, um, when I read through the research, um, I was looking at things like labs, right?

[00:29:55] I was like, triglycerides, LDL cholesterol, HDL cholesterol, insulin, blood sugar, [00:30:00] androgens, ovulation, inflammation. Like those are the big ones that I was like, “Let me, let me read through it.” And it took me about a month to do this, right? Uh, uh, ’cause there’s not that much research. It should take longer for as many people who are taking this and push to take it.

[00:30:16] And when it comes down to it, I’m looking at my little cheat sheet here, um, LDL, no improvement noted yet. Um, ovulation, it’s too early to tell. Yeah. Um, because the, the research is so, so few people and not long enough, they just couldn’t track it yet ’cause- But what we do see in particular is triglycerides, which triglycerides are something that I notice to be one of the first things that’s starting to go high with PCOS when I would work with clients long term.

[00:30:50] And, you know, triglycerides is the, the part of your, like, cholesterol panel that starts to go abnormal when your blood sugar is higher. Even [00:31:00] if your fasting blood sugar’s normal, even if your oral glucose tolerance test is normal, like, the triglycerides sometimes can catch it before because triglycerides is- Yeah

[00:31:09] basically like it’s, it’s related to your blood sugar. So, um, GLP-1 use, and I don’t have exact doses. Uh, they tested different types of GLP-1s, different doses, so I don’t have a… Like, this dose is the one it d- that does it ’cause they’re not updated yet for that. But that is one in particular that saw improvement, so much so that I was like, “Yes, okay.”

[00:31:31] Okay. PMOS and GLP-1s triglycerides, yes. Again, LDLs, no, no improvement found yet. Insulin and blood sugar, yes, but best with metformin, which people sleep on metformin. Really? And I, I always say, like- What do you mean? Okay, very important. When you say best with on met- best result on metformin versus GLP-1. No, best together.

[00:31:57] So- Combined … [00:32:00] combined. And that, like, as we’re talking I’m like maybe that’ll be the drug that they cho- choose for PCOS. Um, but when you’re on a metformin and GLP-1 together, there’s often a lower dose of GLP-1- Sure, yes … with a metformin. And, you know, if, if you’ve taken metformin and had horrible experiences, I mean, there’s definitely…

[00:32:19] I’m sure you’ve heard people talk about how it can make their GI tract feel like they’re eating glass. But, um, metformin is something that’s an insulin sensitizer. It helps your, your liver make less glucose. It helps your body to, um, better utilize, uh, insulin. And so yeah, combining with, um, GLP-1s, it makes sense.

[00:32:38] I’m like, “Okay.” Um, and, and insulin resistance again, in part- in particular, is one of the big reasons people have so many symptoms with their PCOS, like disrupting their sleep and having, um, energy crashes and things like that. Um, and then the other one is androgens. So that was the other one that also showed a positive result with GLP-1 use.[00:33:00]

[00:33:00] Um, so triglycerides, androgens, and insulin and blood sugar, so the, those three areas. Um, the other one I didn’t mention yet, or the two, was ovulation. Uh, I did say that one, too early to tell. And inflammation also was too early to tell. And even though I- You know, read through that research and was like, “Okay, so triglycerides, uh, androgens, and blood sugar and insulin, those can all be improved with GLP-1s.”

[00:33:27] That doesn’t mean yes for sure, because there’s also these other considerations. Um, most people that I talk to with PCOS have a very complicated history with food. Um, I know I specialize in eating disorders, so I’m seeing a probably a very, um an audience or like a connecting with people who have a certain experience.

[00:33:51] So I can’t say that everyone with PCOS has an eating disorder, but like most people I talk to have had some kind of disordered eating, [00:34:00] chron- chronic diet history at least, unless they can be taught how to not diet with their PCOS at diagnosis, which I think should be. That’s should be the gold standard, and that’s what my book’s gonna be about

[00:34:13] But, um, you know, having a GLP-1 as part of your medication puts so much at risk, and that’s the other thing, you know, talking to people in recovery or fat activists who are, have been on a GLP-1 with their PCOS. Some people, again, are in recovery from an eating disorder. Using a GLP- GLP-1 just seemed to rev that thing back up and made it too dangerous, and, um, so that doesn’t promote health.

[00:34:39] Like, if it’s gonna provoke an eating disorder to come or return, that is not health promoting. Like, period. I’m curious about this, if I can ask a question, again, because of my now 15 hours Ooh … of unvoluntary research on GLP-1. But I, part of it, like, you know, let’s be honest, the reason why I did this series was to educate myself- [00:35:00] Yes, exactly

[00:35:00] without having to read boring research paper, which is not my zone of genius. So I’m like, “Let’s bring those expert in. Let me ask a question.” Let’s talk. Yeah. Yeah. I’ll get educated. Okay. So those fat activists, eating disorder patient, when they were prescribed GLP-1 for PCOS, was it in the low dose/type 2 diabetes dosing or the high dose to induce weight loss?

[00:35:28] ‘Cause that’s one thing- Uh-oh. Yeah … I was deep diving with Marcy. Mm-hmm. Um, in her episode, it’s like the dosing with eating disorder makes the difference because- Yes … the low dose typically don’t induce- Yes … severe weight loss, and it doesn’t trigger ED. Ex- exactly. So what’s your thought? Yeah, ’cause I’ve talked to people who’ve done all of those, right?

[00:35:48] Yeah. And the amount of advocating for yourself to maintain the lower dose sounds exhausting. Yeah. Um, that’s what, [00:36:00] you know, people have, have relayed to me, is it takes so much to just say, “I don’t want the higher dose. I have… I’m experiencing euglycemia. Like, my blood sugar’s normal finally. Let’s, let’s just stay here.”

[00:36:13] Um, and also many insurance companies will only pay for it when there is weight loss. So then it becomes an accessibility issue. Um, people can only access it at a higher dose, so then who can h- have a GLP-1 that doesn’t trigger a relapse from an eating disorder aren’t people who have enough money to pay for it.

[00:36:34] So yeah, that’s, that’s F’d up. Um, so- It is … I don’t know. I’m like, is there another word that could be clinically appropriate besides that’s F’d up? No, we swear a lot or we sweared a lot on those 15 episode, trust me, so. Like, but it is F’d up to think that the insurance would only pay at high dose- Mm-hmm

[00:36:51] when a low dose for, um, a group of PCOS patient would do the job to address the core issue, which is [00:37:00] insulin resistance. Mm-hmm. Why not? Why not would you pay for that? Like- Because I think the, the, the way that everyone’s in bed with the idea that- I know … like weight and health are together, they’re like married.

[00:37:12] I think Shabiz, um… I can’t remember Shabiz’s last name right now. Um, person who c- started the Binge Eating Disorder Association. She, that’s something she always said, like, there’s, there’s like a marriage of weight and health and they’re like… No. It, it, and I also think there’s been lots of lobbying for these medications to make sure that weight and health are so tightly t- tied together, so then reimbursement is only for the higher dose, which is a shame because I think- So many decisions in healthcare hurt people with PCOS more than everybody else.

[00:37:46] And I know people don’t like h- me saying that. I think diet culture hurts people with PCOS more, and I think GLP-1 abuse of, like, pushing only the higher dose hurts people with PCOS more because this could be a medication that could help [00:38:00] people- Yes … with their insulin resistance at a lower dose. It could be an option.

[00:38:04] And, um, helping people, like, the, the, the folks who are on that lower dose or on a dose that was appropriate for them, the way they’re like, “I feel like I have energy for the first time in my life,” I’m like, like, they, people are often on, um, either disabled or just not able to do a lot with this condition, and finally being able just to feel like at home in their body and awake, and if they, uh, then able to, like, provide for themselves and their family, uh, it’s a, it’s like a complete game changer.

[00:38:33] But yeah, because of this obsession with GLP-1s only causing weight loss and that’s how it improves health, it’s really messing with things. Yeah. And the what I’ll call the- diet culture medicine- Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm … approach to PCOS, which is it’s because of your weight you have PCOS, and it’s because you eat too much carb.

[00:38:55] Which by the way- Mm … when, when people heard you say, like, a lot of people have an eating disorder and [00:39:00] PCOS, the eating disorder, and correct me if I’m wrong, did not cause the PCOS. No. Is the treatment plan that those people- Mm-hmm … were put on that caused the eating disorder because of the restriction and the weight loss.

[00:39:13] Yes, ma’am. Mm-hmm. Is that correct? Mm-hmm. For sure. Yeah, I, I think very few people with PCOS would have an eating disorder if there was no diet culture, you know? Um, having PCOS, it makes hormonal differences, like, um, the higher insulin levels, the higher androgens, and the lower CCK, or cholecystokinin. Those are all hormones that disrupt how we feel from food, the energy levels, the satisfaction.

[00:39:37] So, um, if you feel, like, this intense kind of primal urge to eat, that’s coming from those hormones being, um, you know, just not being treated. I- it’s, it’s, like, a, I call that, like, a healthcare gap. Like, it’s, that’s a PCOS care gap, and that is a trigger that, like, lets us know that, hey, there’s a care gap going on.

[00:39:57] Same with food noise, you know? That’s something I think we talked [00:40:00] about on our last episode that we recorded together. You know, food noise is a big thing that people with PCOS talk about, you know, that, the, the intense thoughts with food, and that is coming, um, from the diet trauma, um, combined with those intense cravings.

[00:40:15] And again, if you’re experiencing lots of food noise with your PCOS, that is evidence of a care gap. That is not something that’s your, like, you’re doing it wrong, or you’re lazy, or have no self-control, and that didn’t cause the PCOS. That’s coming from you’re not getting the right care for your PCOS. S- so if you would love to entertain me, just like a five-minute, what is, in your opinion, the better care to fill that gap?

[00:40:42] Mm-hmm. That is not obviously weight loss and food restriction. Right. But what would be- That’s just gonna make it worse. Yeah … like, people have to go to your Substack to get more and read the book, but if you have- Yeah … like, a five-minute less- Yeah … better care, care. Five or five days. I can do either one. Um.

[00:40:58] Five minutes for now. [00:41:00] So yes, like I wish when people had those either cravings or the food noise, that they were taught that that was a tell of a care gap. Like, hey, that’s your body telling you. It’s tapping on your shoulder or shaking you, you know, like, hey, your body needs something. It’s not that you need to take something away or you’re doing it wrong.

[00:41:23] And instead, this is the way that you know you need more support, and it may be that you need a new medication, another supplement, that you need more rest. Or you forgot your medication the last few days, and that’s why this is happening. Um, it could be also the way through different seasons of your life that lets you know, like, “Oh, my PCOS is getting harder to treat.”

[00:41:44] You know, ’cause it’s a chronic condition, so it’s gonna get worse over time even if you’re perfect, right? Um, and so yeah, like I, I wish people knew that it was just a way to know that you need to go see a provider, um, or that you’re missing something, [00:42:00] and what that could be, um, it could be, um, you need to make sure you’re eating enough.

[00:42:05] You need to make sure that you’ve been screened for a sleep disorder and you’re getting enough rest. Maybe you need some boundaries. There’s too many toxic people in your life, you know? Or toxic situations. It could also be like, oh, maybe you need more protein with whatever you’re eating with breakfast, or fiber.

[00:42:23] Um, maybe you need to start on an inositol supplement. I don’t know, like there could be something, um, that you need to add, and, and that’s really what my book’s all about, is like when you have these care gaps, what do you need to add instead of what do you need to take away? And that’s the Find Your Food Voice book, your first book- Mm-hmm

[00:42:43] that we’re also gonna link in the show note that you’re referring to. Mm-hmm. Well, that Find Your Food Voice is not for PCOS though. That’s the only thing. Oh, it’s not for PCOS. No, no. So that’s gonna be the upcoming book. Uh-huh. So Find Your Food Voice does have three people in there with PCOS, so I definitely spend some time on it.

[00:42:59] But it’s [00:43:00] really, uh, written for someone who’s in that space of diet trauma. You know? Okay. It’s, it’s, it’s written for that. And PCOS is for anybody with PCOS. I mean, if you have that diagnosis or you know someone, and it’s like what I wish you were told. Like, that exact question, like, if someone’s experiencing these things, what do you want them to do?

[00:43:17] I want them to know, hey, this means you just need to add something. Like, you, uh… Don’t, don’t cut out carbs and sugar. Don’t, like, add another, like, uh, risk factor to your long-term health by adding dieting and weight cycling. Let’s instead add a new tool, and the book is all the tools. Yeah. For anybody that’s listening to this that’s new to our world, right?

[00:43:40] One of the anchor points of a weight neutral approach is the sustainability of the- Mm-hmm … treatment plan, right? Mm-hmm. So if we take PCOS and we give it the treatment plan to lose weight and cut carbs, that, the problem is that that’s not sustainable. Like- Sure … this is, this is the main problem. It’s [00:44:00] not gonna be sustainable- Mm-hmm

[00:44:00] for the rest of life. So what happen when you’re no longer able to restrict- Mm-hmm … and that the weight come back, which we’re 95% of the chance it’s gonna come back, then PCOS gonna come back in full flare? Yeah. Yeah. Like exactly, and, and probably worse. And, um, I just finished the chapter all on, like, all the different diets that are prescribed for people with PCOS, and, like, the data is ridiculous.

[00:44:26] It’s, it’s really funny actually because how few people have actually been studied with PCOS on, like, intermittent fasting or ketogenic diets or, like, any of them. Um, so few people, such short durations. And when there is anything longer than, like, nine-ish months, it just, you see it all returning back. And then when you apply it to the general population, ’cause we don’t have any long-term PCOS research, you see all those diets flopping and making things worse.

[00:44:57] So yeah, that’s, that’s why, [00:45:00] no, like, it, it may in the short term, and that’s what makes this such a hard sell. Like, any, any diet is gonna probably improve ovulation for a few months or blood sugar for a few months, but I think most people have tried it more than once and they can be like, “Oh yeah, it stops working at some point.”

[00:45:17] And it’s not because you did it wrong, it’s ’cause it just doesn’t work, so. And could it be also the danger of GLP-1 at high doses for PCOS, PMOS treatment- Mm-hmm … is because the, even the high dose GLP-1 won’t be sustainable long term? Right. Right. Exactly. And I think that’s what some of the drug companies are hoping to change, is that people can, like, have funding forever and be on it forever.

[00:45:43] But the reality is most people, I mean, what is it? 80% of people on a less- Yeah, at high doses, yeah … yeah, the less than a year. And so, um- Yeah, that’s, that’s the big issue. Like, it may actually be a sustainable option if it was just normalized at a [00:46:00] lower dose. Like, this could be something that would actually help people have, um, a, a much, like, higher quality of life with their PCOS.

[00:46:09] Would it change their weight? I don’t know. Probably not at the lower dose, but maybe for some people. I mean, I- we don’t know, and I don’t think that’s something that, um, people are out there studying at this point because- I was gonna say- Yeah … is there, is there research on PCOS/GLP-1 currently ongoing? I mean, I’m sure there’s some.

[00:46:26] I don’t know. I don’t know. But I’m not in any researchers. N- none- Yeah … of them are my ear. But, but a lot of their funding is gonna be weight change, so you know- Yeah, exactly … I’m not, I’m not in their favorite place. Yeah. Well, they, they claim to be studying various condition, but what they’re really studying- Yeah

[00:46:43] is weight loss. Yes. And then the observed side effect that could be linked to condition. Right. And then they’re saying, “Well, it’s a- Yes, exactly … solution for this.” Exactly. Exactly. And it’s, it’s connecting dots that’s, like, missing so many other things. Yes. And that’s why I did that deep dive, ’cause [00:47:00] I was like, no, no, no.

[00:47:00] I wanna find PCOS only and the, the, the parts of PCOS that are making health, like, worrisome and complicated and making things harder for people. So, so yeah. Okay. Yeah. Anything else I didn’t ask you about that you think is worth mentioning for people listening? Um An angle that I may have missed? No, and I, I just hope that, um, if you are feeling, like, seduced by GLP-1 use and PCOS, that you give yourself a beat, you know?

[00:47:37] It’s feeling normal. Um, yeah. I mean, I’ve seen those commercials too. I’m like, ooh, that sounds fun. Um, and hearing my kids with the, like singing the jingle, I’m like, “If you sing that jingle one more time- “… I may throw the remote and break the TV.” Um, but you know, they’re, it’s really great marketing, and great marketing is sticky.

[00:47:58] And, um, [00:48:00] you know, people with PCOS have been told that they have to lose weight. Yeah. And they’ve been d- they’ve been, like, promised so many amazing outcomes with different diets, with weight loss surgery. That’s another one I need to do a deep dive on. Um, with weight loss surgery and, um, yeah, and, and th- they’ve just never delivered, um, for most people.

[00:48:19] There’s been, like, that random, like, one person that will have success in a long term. But, um, so I encourage you to be skeptical and find a provider who is willing to take their time with this. If you can have access to a provider who can help you take it slow and not, like… I know it can be hard to find a medical provider who’s not focused on weight, so especially where I live in, like, a small town in the South, so, like, good luck.

[00:48:48] There’s, like, one or two, and they’re not taking new patients, so… ‘Cause everybody loves seeing them. Um, but yeah, if you can find a provider who can just, like, look at other things besides weight. There is one [00:49:00] other thing I wanna tell you. Yeah. I’m so glad I said that because it reminded this in my brain.

[00:49:03] Um, especially if you’re listening to this podcast because you already are in a place of rejecting diets, maybe you’re in recovery, and you have PCOS and you decide, “Okay, I need another way to help have a cycle or something,” that there’s something that really, uh, you need another tool. So you start to go down the route of a GLP-1, and you fi- and your provider who you’ve been working with forever who doesn’t ask about weight, whatever, is supporting you.

[00:49:27] What you may notice is once you start a GLP-1, everyone thinks you changed, like, teams, if we’re on teams, like weight loss- Oh, yeah … anti-weight loss. Black and white and tiny diet world. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. So if people see you’re on a GLP-1 in your chart, all your providers who’ve been helping you without talking about weight may start talking about weight because they think that you are prioritizing it.

[00:49:51] And so just, like, I don’t know, just I wanted to give you a heads-up that you may be, like, effing exhausted again. Like, it isn’t hard already, but you may [00:50:00] have to re-advocate. Like, “No, no, I know. I’m on a GLP-1, and I still don’t wanna talk about weight as a measure of progress.” Like, you may have to reinstate all those things.

[00:50:09] I wish it wasn’t that way. It’s another wa- reason why this GLP-1, like, intense kind of culture is, uh, making things harder for people in recovery and just people in general. But, yeah, you may have to say all the things again and again and again and again. That’s it. Yeah. I’m gonna share something here because it happened to me yesterday.

[00:50:27] I do not have PCOS, but I have a chronic condition with the scoliosis- Mm-hmm … and potential bone disease, and I’m fat. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And here’s the approach that I now don’t even give a chance to the new doctor. I walk… Like, yesterday, I saw a new rheumatologist. I didn’t even give the poor guy a chance to talk about weight.

[00:50:49] Like, I walked into your office, I say, “Hi, I’m Stephanie, and I’m weight neutral. I have a, an eating disorder that has been in recovery. I do not want any, any recommendation or [00:51:00] question about my weight or that would require me to lose weight. Now we can carry on with the consultation.” Proceed. I said proceed from there.

[00:51:09] This is the rules of engagement, and proceed from there if you’re- This is my boundary, yeah. I’m just like, I, I like, I’m the one being victimized, so I, like, may- and maybe they, they are weight neutral. I don’t know. I’m just, like- Mm-hmm … telling them very politely, affirmatively, this is what it is. Yeah. It took literally a minute, and it changed the game.

[00:51:29] Find out that this particular m- physician was weight neutral- Wow … but I didn’t give- Impressive … I didn’t give him a chance. I just like, “We’re not gonna go down there. I’m not gonna be triggered. I’m not gonna feel shame.” Yeah. “Let’s not talk about it.” Yeah. Yeah. I love it. So- Just like a universal- If you can help PCOS p- people- Yeah

[00:51:47] this is what it is. Universal precautions, right? Just like I’m just gonna assume every healthcare provider is focused on weight and get it over with instead of, like, sitting the whole appointment, like, guarded- Waiting … and scared. [00:52:00] Mm-hmm. Waiting for it. And, and the way that I’m thinking about this is I’ve been stigmatized and traumatized so much- Mm-hmm

[00:52:06] that now I’m protecting myself. And yeah, maybe that’s gonna be aggressing to the physician who’s weight neutral, but at this point, I care more about my wellbeing. Yeah, and I think like- I know some people won’t agree with that, but that’s just where I am at in my life right now. Yeah. I know. I mean, I feel like we all get to a point where we’re like, “It’s okay if you don’t agree with me.”

[00:52:27] And also, like, I know as for me as a weight neutral provider, if someone said that at the beginning of a session, I would not be offended. I’d be like- Maybe … “Wow, let’s unpack.” Like, do you have to start every appointment that way? Like- Yeah. You know? Um, I’m so glad you’re here, and how hard for you, you know?

[00:52:45] Yeah. So. So. Yes. Um- Thank you for saying that. Yeah. So that, I know I don’t have PCOS, so I cannot relate to the- Yeah … lived experience- But I think that- … of PCOS, but from another chronic condition person, this may be hard. Yeah. And I think people with [00:53:00] PCOS, I wish they would, um, be okay naming it as a chronic condition more often, but I think there’s, like, so much selling of like, “We can fix it, there’s a cure.”

[00:53:08] Um, but once folks name it as a chronic condition, there’s a lot of community then with other- Yes … people experiencing chronic conditions and diseases. So, yeah. Okay. Yes. While we wait for your book to come out, because I’m sure- Mm … you’ll be back in a year and a half again, like you have a- Would you let me come back?

[00:53:25] Yes. Yeah, absolutely. Put me on the top of your list. Oh, you’re so amazing. Thank you. Uh, where can people find you? Substack is definitely the place where I am. Um, and my Substack, Substack name is PCOS Health with Intuitive Eating. And yeah, I’m, I do at least a weekly, um, email essay and- Do a really hardcore deep dive into some topic related to PCOS, including, um, trauma, like I mentioned earlier, ovulation.

[00:53:58] I did fiber. Should we [00:54:00] be fiber maxing with PCOS? Fiber maxing. Um, men- um, menopause, midlife PCOS, because, yes, it does not go away after menopause. And, you know, just whatever topic. I think the next one I’m working on is, uh, is fatigue, PCOS fatigue. Yeah. And I know you’re not ready to answer that question, so if you-

[00:54:18] do not have an answer, you don’t have an answer, but since you no longer work with people, is there a referral, like here’s where you can go if you wanna be working with someone in a- Yes, actually … weight neutral- I did a number of, um, years I did training on, um, helping- Okay … providers to be able to work with people with PCOS from a weight neutral perspective.

[00:54:39] So, um, I can give you the link in a follow-up email, but the, the email to get the whole list of providers who’ve gone through our training with me is, uh, julieduffydillon.com/pcosproviders. And it has a link for you of all these folks. And if you have… If you are listening and you live in an area where you cannot find someone, [00:55:00] shoot me an email.

[00:55:01] Um, you know, go on my website, in the contact page, shoot me an email. Um, PCOS providers, we kinda all know each other, so- Yeah … I can see if I can help you find someone. I can’t guarantee it- Yeah … but I we have a couple of- We have a ton of, like, secret Facebook group- … that we’ll put your name in and we’ll fi- Ah.

[00:55:17] We’ll put your… Not your name, your full name, but we’ll put your name, your location. W- somebody will say- They do … “Yeah, I can take them,” so. Yes. Yes, exactly. We have those secret- Exactly … Facebook group available.

[00:55:29] Thank you very much for your time, uh, and catching up. Yeah. And we’ll put a date on our calendar, another 18 months for the release- Yes … of your book. I love it. Thank you, Stephanie. I appreciate the chat. It was so great to reconnect. Thank you. I’m gonna stop recording in case we-