Asking for money as a woman is unfortunately too often difficult for us as women.
Think of the last consultation you had and come time to talk about pricing… How did you feel ? Confident? Scared?
Asking for money as a woman in the coaching industry
Michelle Leotta is a certified health coach who has helped 1000’s of clients around the world over the past 14 years and has to learn for herself to ask for money and teach woman how to ask for money that feels good
What you’ll learn listening to this episode:
- Why we struggle for asking for money in the context of our business
- Michelle and I share our story of how we struggle with asking for money in our consultation.
- How to ask for money in consultation that feels good for both people.
Mentioned in the show:
Non-Diet Coaching Certification
Connect with our guest:
Facebook Community for Coaches – Michelle Leotta
Transcript:
Undiet Your Coaching Ep90 - Asking for money as a woman with Michelle Leotta
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Hey, welcome back my dear colleague. Today we're going to have a hot conversation between two confident women. We're going to talk about Asking for money as a woman, and I have a guest, who's been in the coaching, health coaching industry like me, in her case for 14 years, in my case for 10 years, and we started with no business and built a business, and now we mentor other women to build their own business.
So the conversation and the coaching opportunity around becoming. comfortable and confident around money is one that we've had for a long time. And we both bring two different perspective to this conversation. So I invited her on the podcast to have this conversation. It's one of the few women in our industry that I knew I could have an inspirational conversation for you on how to think about money differently. Why we struggle. As women, as coaches to ask for money and how we can think about it differently. How we can think about money, about selling, about consultation differently in order for us to create ease in asking for money. Michelle is a friend, a colleague. She specialized in helping health coaches. build businesses in that very specific niche. And, I hope you enjoy her. As much as I do, and I know if you listen to this conversation about asking for money, you will come out change as a woman from this conversation. So let's roll the interview with Michelle.
Welcome to the show, Michelle.
Michelle: Thank you so much. I'm happy to be here with you.
Stephanie: I'm excited to talk with my partner about topics that no one else talks about. So I was on Michelle's podcast not so long ago, we hit some hot topic. And today I want to talk about asking for money as a woman.
Stephanie: Let's do it. I coach on that all the time in my mastermind struggling with doing the ask struggling about the conversation around money on the console determining our price like let's go to the basic why are we struggling as women to ask for money what's your thoughts on that
Michelle: I think that what if they say no, what if I am rejected? Is very much at the heart of it. And for women being rejected, I mean, this is shocking to me. There's like studies, there's. Statistics out there about how the greatest fear that a woman has is being essentially a bag lady, you know, it's kind of an old term. Yeah, like in, you know, various studies that they've done like this comes across like we are afraid of being destitute. We are afraid of having no Money no one to take care of us not being attached to a man often comes along with that right a provider. So hearing no, you're not worth the money because that's what we hear in our head, or no for whatever reason I'm not going to give you money, I think, is very triggering for women who I mean. My mother's generation could not even open up her own bank account without a man signing for it. So this is, we're really like the first generation of women who are facing this head on.
Stephanie: Yeah, and it goes along to my world why women want to shrink their body is because they don't want to be rejected. So, in the business setting on consultation women don't want to be rejected with a no.
Michelle: Well, yeah, because if your body isn't what you think it should be and you're rejected, what does that mean? You're not gonna marry that man who then provides for you because know, yeah, right Like it's like a real primal fear
Stephanie: I think it's really I think the first step is Acknowledging the context of it and where this fear comes from and why this fear is there And it has to do with our socialization as women.
Michelle: It's been going on for Generation upon generation, you know, my grandmother. Got a secret job when I was little, yeah, she worked at the bakery while my grandfather was off at work, but it was a secret. He didn't know about it because he would not have liked it, but she wanted to have pocket money to do with what she pleased.
Michelle: So she went ahead and got herself a job at the bakery anyway, and just told everybody to shut up about it. You know, the fact that just that's. my own grandmother two generations ago had to sneak around to even just make a little pittance that she's getting paid at the bakery. you know, it runs really deep.
Michelle: So I think you're right.
Stephanie: it's totally normal for us to be uncomfortable. Now that we understand why, like, how do we change that? How do we become more comfortable? I guess?
Michelle: Well, you know, okay, what happens? I'm sure you been in this industry a long time. So have I so I'm sure you've had a consultation or conversation with someone at some point and they said, No, I don't know work with you.
Michelle: How was that?
Stephanie: It feels shitty. It feels rejected. There's a lot of shame around this as well. Like I should have priced it less, I should have added more value to it. we look at ourselves as the problem, right?
Michelle: Yeah, I can feel really crappy for days. And sometimes I mean, I would be crying in the shower in the early days of my health coaching business because what did I do wrong?
Michelle: But interestingly, Just an hour ago, I was on a call with someone perspective student for one of my programs. And, you know, this is a health coach who's looking for help with her business. Okay. But as I'm talking with her, I'm getting the sense that I don't think it's a good fit. Like I could have forced it.
Michelle: I could have tried. Yeah. And I decided in that moment, I didn't want And so I did not offer my program to her. I never actually named a price or told her anything about it. I just listened to her story for about 15, 20 minutes. And, you know, I gave her some next steps and told her we could always have a conversation again later. And it felt so good because I knew that I could be. You know, back in the day when I started my business, I felt more desperate. I had to try to get that money. I had to, even if it went against my gut, even if it went against, I don't say my value systems, I wouldn't go that far, but it could, right.
Michelle: Sometimes it could, when you feel desperate. and so we need to be able to elevate ourselves to a position of, I mean, and same with how our bodies look and how we interact with, you know, men and marriage and everything, like I make the decision. You know, I'm interviewing you. If we get to the point where I decide that I'm going to offer you something, you're lucky, you know, and not everyone's going to get that bar. What do you think?
Stephanie: Yeah. And we are entering in a relationship together. And also, if you know, for me, if you know that your service Is not the right fit for them right now or could be in a year from now or like it's not what's going to help them if you're coming at asking for money from a place of service, then it's also your duty to not make the offer when you open up the space that you can make or not make the offer, then you are not. I have to you get out of despair and you're like, this is a choice that I'm making to invite somebody to work with me.
Michelle: Exactly. And you're right. If we're coming from a place of service, there are many times that there's a better direction somebody needs to be going in, you know, maybe they really need. Mental health professionals at this point, maybe they really need, you know, fill in the blank here and I start my consultations that way. I'll say, listen, you know, we're going to talk about this and this today. If I feel like my program can help you. I'll tell you all about it. If I think you would do better with something else, I'll point you in a different direction.
Michelle: How does that sound? And everyone's like. That sounds amazing. That sounds so low pressure, like it really sets the stage for this to be an authentic conversation. And sometimes it really is hey, got a different idea for you.
Stephanie: Yeah, and it's about this become then instead of a sales call, it becomes a conversation between two human if we are the right fit to work together from both sides.
Stephanie: Can I as a practitioner or coach see myself work with you? And can you see yourself work with me? So let's have a human conversation. And so is it really about asking money? Because I know the title of the podcast is asking for money as a woman. But when you like, Entertain the selling conversation from a place of service, then is it really about asking for money?
Michelle: Right. you're right. We use the term sales call. That's what these things are called or discovery call or whatever. It's a sales call. But yeah, as coaches, I just feel like the coaching relationship starts now, you know, it starts with that call sometimes before that call. And let's just figure out what the right thing is Let me help you figure out what the right thing is for you.
Stephanie: And can we think about it from an exchange of money as opposed to asking for money? an energy exchange, for sure. An exchange of value. I'm going to give you value by helping you solve your problem. And in turn, you're going to give me value in a form of currency, in a form of money. It's an exchange of value.
Michelle: Now, how about this question again? You've been in this industry a long time. Have you ever taken on a client? And maybe you had a hunch up front or maybe you didn't, but along the way, you realize there is no amount of money this person could have paid you that would have made the exchange equal.
Stephanie: Absolutely.
Stephanie: and I would say not so much now. I think it's because I have been doing this long enough, like I've been selling the same thing long enough. Then I got really good at explaining the thing and making like clear who this is for. That people that land in the container with me are more and more refined to be the ideal person to be in that container.
Michelle: Agree. So it's not a matter of having avatar that's 40 to 50 who lives in the country. It's a vibe, right? Yeah,
Stephanie: it's more than just the age bracket is the for me in my world is the value of the individual that their value system match mind is the Place they want to go match mine, do the process to get there match mine. and I've said that so many, I'm not for everyone. Like I am for a very small percentage of the population, and that's who I'm the perfect fit for. I'm not for everyone.
Michelle: And can we be comfortable with that?
Stephanie: How can we be more comfortable? And I think When you can be comfortable with that, that's when asking for money doesn't become a big deal.
Michelle: Because the people who do fit in that vibe with you, like you said, in your container, and you're speaking the same language, I find that they already have their hand half raised, to pay you. Yes. You know, it's not a big ask. It's very different from if you just put up a billboard on the highway, you know, with a price tag, come work with me to anyone who drives by, you know, if you really reserve that ask for the people that are halfway there, I have found that takes a lot of the trepidation out of it improves closing rates, like crazy gets you off some of those other calls a lot faster.
Stephanie: Yeah. And you get. Yeah. Less people on the call, but much more aligned and those call don't feel like a sales calls. They feel like a conversation between two human.
Michelle: Yeah. You know, once I implemented an application process ahead of my calls. My closing rate went to 90 to 100 percent. Tell me more about that. It was shocking. I mean, there's so many problems that happen with these calls in the first place, right? You get no shows, reschedules, you know, whatever. Somebody's on the call, but they're actually in a restaurant having dinner with their family at the same time, and you're like, what? What? So I created an application, that basically let me vet potential clients before even talking with them.
Michelle: So there are some things that any of us need to know and depending on who you are and, you know, What perspective you're coming from, you might have different questions, like what's something that you might need to know from a client right away to know if they're even remotely going to be a fit for you
Stephanie: for me, in my case, like it is still on the pursuit of losing weight. That's still their goal. Like,I want to lose weight and that's what I'm ready to pay money for. Then I'm not your person because I cannot support you in that journey. Yeah, that's a no go for me.
Michelle: And I know health coaches maybe who, follow a primal or paleo dogma. And so if someone were to fill out their application and indicate that they were a vegan and they wanted to remain a vegan, it's great, you know, fine.
Michelle: Here's somebody else that would be better to help you with your issue because I can't get behind that. So, yeah, so asking about like their. Their views, their dogma, their desires, like that can be really helpful. you can ask questions about why they want to work with you. It's an interesting question.
Michelle: Sometimes people have no idea. They just kind of stumbled upon your page or somehow they got to you yesterday. Other people will tell you, I have listened to every podcast episode you have ever recorded. I memorized them and relisten to them. And I have attended every free training you've ever had. And I know now's the time to work with you.
Michelle: I'm ready. This person goes on the calendar and the other one not so much.
Stephanie: It avoids people wasting their time, too. Yes. Right? It's not just our time and it's their time. Like, why come on the call when you're, like, some basic value or completely misaligned? you're wasting your time and I'm wasting my time.
Stephanie: And, can I, we talk about this, too, if people are not willing to fill up five or six questions. Are they really going to say yes to your offer in a consultation when they can't even invest five minutes to fill in an application?
Michelle: And you can learn so much by how they do it, because even if they do it, some people will just write like a dash where they're supposed to fill in a blank, you know, they don't fill it in, they just do something so that they can submit the form. Or maybe there's a lot of misspellings, or maybe it's just nonsense. Gibberish that they type in and you can even from that point. No, I don't think we're on the same page here. So it's wild. The amount of psychology that goes into it, but it really it is in service. Yeah, saving everybody time. I honestly believe that. So big fan of having that process. there are other steps that I've played with inserting, you know, have people listen to a couple podcast episodes before the call, have people watch a certain video before the call, read case studies, you could send them things and let them know, I need you to complete this before our call. Because again, if they're serious, they're going to be very happy to do that.
Stephanie: Yeah. And I've even seen somebody, one of my coach, she wasn't even doing the consultation. The consultation was just done to videos. if she would send you a video and if you said yes to this, they would send you the next video. Like the consultation was completely automated from video to video. I ended up buying because every video was what I needed to hear.
Michelle: That's pretty amazing. That's cool. Yeah, that
Stephanie: I have not read. When we think about asking for money, if we make it the right fit for both party, then there is less, I don't want to say guilt and shame, but there's less, worry about asking for money because you know, you're both the right fit and it makes sense to both of you. And they're going to get as much value as you.
Michelle: People will really surprise you. I have found because sometimes, you know, we burn our own money story. Can we talk about that? Yeah. I mean, I, was raised, I mean, my mom was single. she went to school at night, you know, to get a degree so that she could earn more, you know, we always had enough, but let's just say most of my clothes came from Kmart, you know, so I, you know, I have a money story that came with that for sure, but sometimes I've now learned in 14 years of. offering services as a coach. Other people have very, very different view of money. Like it's so amazing when I've had clients who were just like, yeah, sure. When can we start? Here's my credit card number. And I just named like the highest price I've ever asked for from a client. In fact, here's a funny story during quarantine.
Michelle: A couple of years ago when, you know, I was taking care of my boys, they didn't have school. They were schooling at home, blah, blah, blah. It was very crazy time for everybody. And I decided I did not have time to take on any more private clients unless I said, well, if they paid me double, then I probably could figure it out.
Michelle: So I doubled my prices during that time. And, I had a consultation with someone who was an. Perfect fit. I mean, I really wanted to work with her and I felt so bad because like her husband had been furloughed and I just knew everyone was struggling. And so I did something I never do. And I never recommend. And I offered her two options. I gave her two prices, that big doubled price. And then I offered her a smaller package at a lower price. And she said, Michelle. I believe in you. I love everything you put out there. I want to work with you. I'm making plenty of money right now, and I'm gonna, I want to buy your biggest package and support you. Hot damn, that woman blew my mind.
Stephanie: Yeah, because you, she did clearly did not have the same money story as you were the past experience with money.
Michelle: She was abundant, you know, she felt her own abundance.
Stephanie: It's so critical for us to understand is thought projection, how we're projecting our own story, our own thoughts on people. And we think, well, everybody's going to think it's too expensive because I think it's too expensive.
Michelle: Yup. And the way people think about their money is just wildly different. Anyone who has ever had a spouse or a roommate who didn't pay the bills and you could not understand how they could not pay the bills, you know, right there, two different money stories. And it's really wild. So when we're Afraid to ask for money. I think that's important to understand that person is not us. They might think that the 2000, $3,004,000 that we're asking for is. Pocket change. Yes.
Stephanie: And it's also how do we look, let's think about that. Let's talk about that. How do we look at our client? Do we look at our future client as being limited? Or do we look at our clients on the lens of what's possible for them? And often it starts with how we look at ourself. if we look at ourself and we're constantly looking at everything that's not working and our limitation, we're going to look at our future clients from a place of limitation instead of possibility and abundance.
Michelle: That's so interesting. You're right. I mean, it's not just about money. Money is like the conversation that represents all the other conversations, right? Like how you do money is how you do everything.
Stephanie: I think it's. So true. Think about that. if you think money is hard because it's hard for you right now, because for whatever reason, like whatever money you have in the account, it's even irrelevant to how money is easy or not.
Stephanie: You're going to think like right now, there's the word like, people are talking about recession, right? Like we're in a recession. So people who constantly watch the news and are inundated with the recession, and perhaps somebody in their family has lost their job, they're going to think everybody is living from that reality, unless they really check themselves and say, this is my reality, where in fact there's people who do not have I've not been affected by the recession and the money's still flowing in the same way it was before.
Michelle: Yeah, very much. They're out there. I mean, yeah, the economy has certainly changed over the past, whatever, four years now, but it's not everybody there. There are plenty of clients out there that are still ready, willing and able. I was thinking. The whole idea of I don't want to ask because I'm afraid that they're going to say no.
Michelle: Another aspect of that is very real, which is if you've thrown yourself into coaching you don't have a source of income, otherwise you're going to need to make every damn sale, right? You are honestly. You are strapped. And the solution to that is to not put yourself in that situation.
Stephanie: Oh, yeah. Talk about this, because that's my perspective. yeah, I realize we don't have the same opinion as most business coaches, quote unquote, right?
Michelle: Yeah, I do not ever want any of my health coaches to be in that kind of financial position. I do not want anyone to, you know, take out A high interest loan to afford any of my programs. You know, you don't want to put yourself in that financial place because you're going to make decisions that reek of desperation. So I am all on board with staying with your full time job. If you have a good salary, finding a, an exit strategy that works for you over time, finding a part time job, a couple of days a week, also changing the way you live. Like when I. Left my job in advertising. I had just been married and we bought a condo and we bought something that we could afford on one salary. So the pressure was not there. And I think that is incredibly important, especially for our younger coaches and our single coaches to hear, you know, if you don't have another salary supporting you. You got to have your own back first.
Stephanie: Yeah. And it comes how the way we feel like about our money in that case, like if you're in despair mode, because you've got to make that 2, 000 to pay the rent, your own rent, how effective is that relationship with your clients going to be? It's going to be terrible because like you're in despair mode from the start of that relationship.
Stephanie: And we have to bring that part job.
Michelle: Yes. you know, in the relationship, like we have to hold the space, right? It takes a lot of energy and this like internal spaciousness, but we're, if we're all like gripped up inside about our own situation and our own sense of safety, how can we safely hold the space for somebody else? There's so much of that we think a lot of it in terms of what we're eating or how we're our self care practices, but I think taking care of our money situation also greatly impacts our ability to be a good coach
Stephanie: to your point. Well, it's today's society. We live in a society where all your basic needs transit via money, like shelter, food, like everything is money. We can't be like ignorant to say, well, it has nothing to do with money. No bullshit. You can't pay rent, you have a problem and that's going to not going to put you in a good position. let's talk about pricing because that's another place that parallels to that. I often hear the complaint, but how do I decide, well, how determine my pricing so as many people as possible can work for me? And I see people underpricing themselves in order to help as many people as possible. What are your thoughts on that?
Michelle: well, insurance models. Are in place to do that, right? Insurance models are there so that people can go to a practitioner and pay a 20 copay. And then what kind of care do they receive? You know, do they get 6 minutes of a doctor's time? Do they wait in a waiting room for 2 hours? You know, what is that experience like? So that those practitioners can be reimbursed the amount that they are from the insurance companies like doctors. And any provider that takes insurance are struggling and they're cramming in as many patients as they possibly can to make that model work.
Michelle: And I don't think that's in service of anybody. So I don't think we should aspire to help as many people as possible because most of us are single person shops over here. You know, we don't even have a front desk. We don't even have a waiting room. So we have to keep it manageable. so we don't burn out. We have to earn enough. So that we don't go under financially ourselves, because if we burn out, if we are not able to sustain our business, then we help absolutely nobody.
Stephanie: Yes.
Michelle: And then nobody wins. Then we're going back to corporate America to get that job we hate. And it's just, it all went nowhere.
Stephanie: friend of mine, her name is Kelly deals. She's a feminist business coach. And she said, there's no feminist business that the feminist business owner is not taking care of. First. Like owning that we need to take care of ourselves first in order for us to provide amazing service to people is the foundation. So, if you can't pay your rent, if you can't buy the food you want, if you can't work. 35 hours a week and you have to work 75 hours a week to see as many people to make a baseline minimum. You will not be of service to people and you will burn out. You have to take care of yourself first. But again, I think as women, that's hard to embody.
Michelle: It is, but you're right. That model just cannot work. It can't. So I'll suggest a different model. This is one where you are charging higher prices. You're pricing high ticket and when you make enough money because you have, you know, enough clients paying you enough money, now you can take on other types of clients, pro bono, reduced scholarships, things like this.
Michelle: it, this happens in every industry. And I know a lot about the advertising industry having worked in it in my first career. In the ad industry, every agency I worked at always has a bank client. So we had Bank of America, and I was an art director. The creative department hates working on the bank client because the bank does boring ads.
Michelle: Yeah, really boring. And there's always an insurance client. Same thing. Boring stuff. Nobody wants to work on this account, but boy, do they pay well. And that's how the agency can afford to take other clients and sometimes to even take on pro bono clients. So like I got to work on the Boy Scouts account one time and we did an anti smoking campaign one time that was incredibly creative and very cool paid. nothing. So in our industry, it's the same, you need your bank clients first. And then you can have passion projects. And you can have pro bono clients and you have the freedom to do other things. But you got to find your bank.
Stephanie: No, I agree with you. Because in my field in the social justice world, people want to help everybody. So we got to first take care of ourselves and get That's in the mind of our coaches, but then there's so many different business sliding scales than their options, right? Where you like offer different prices for a certain program, like there's so many ways of helping people without you being the bearer of the suffering.
Michelle: Right, because again, then no one wins. Nobody wins. And you can't help. Obviously, you just can't help everyone. here's an example. So, in my own business over the past 3 or 4 years, I've given away over 30, 000 in scholarships to the BIPOC community, and I'm very proud of being able to do that. This has been an initiative that was important to me.
Michelle: It takes time. It takes effort, right? Any initiative in your business is going to take time and effort. You have to figure it out. How are we going to do this? The admin, the, you know, working out the kinks. Fine. So we got this going. Well, I'll get emails or I'll talk to coaches and let's say, well, do you have any scholarships?
Michelle: and they don't fit. They're not part of the BIPOC community, so the answer is no. And I feel bad. I had someone ask me recently, she said, well, I'm a single mom of three kids. Do you have any scholarships? And I thought, gosh, I'm a single mom with kids. I should probably have a scholarship like that. And it's even on my heart. I've handicapped all kinds of different reasons people ask for a scholarship. as a small business owner, I can only have so many initiatives. I can only administer and figure out like so many things, right? One woman show over here. So, so for now the answer has to be no, only because I don't have a system in place for that. I can't, I just can't, you know, you have to have boundaries. You have to have policies. It's like having a refund policy. You know, you just need something in black and white. And if I don't have it figured out yet, Oh man, no, but maybe in the future. But for right now, no, we just have the BIPOC scholarship. So there's an example of, you can't always help everyone. You can only do what fits within your resources. we time your money and your energy
Stephanie: as we're working towards the end of the podcast. This is a perfect place to circle back to the beginning, right? When you're talking about having to say, no, you don't have a scholarship for this, but you have 1 for this particular group of people comes back to that resiliency, that capacity to be told. No.
Michelle: Can you say no. Yeah. You have to say it in order to hear it.
Stephanie: Because if you can say it, and you can quote unquote reject people, then likely your tolerance of hearing no for good reason from a client perspective, I don't have the money, it's not the right fit for me at this time, there'll be a better understanding of it.
Stephanie: And you know, it's not about you. It's about their current personal situation right now. Exactly. Thank Exactly. Because often it's not about you. Can we just say that when people say, no, I don't want to work with you? It has nothing to do with you as a human being.
Michelle: I'm not saying no to that single mom of three kids because I don't think she's got a good reason or story. It has nothing to do with her. I want to give her everything, but it has to me what's going on over here on this side.
Stephanie: Voila. And the same thing in the consultation. When a client says no to you, it has nothing to do with you as a human coach behind has to do with whatever it, she doesn't have the money. It's not the right fit. It's not her goal. Like we have to stop making it a sign of our words. Does that make sense?
Michelle: And I think that's respect to a person to understand that they got a whole life going on over there, you know, we're always the main character in our own story, but this person, you know, they don't just exist to be on this call with us.
Michelle: They have a whole life of family and friends and circumstances. And if they have to say no right now, I'm good. I understand. You know, you're managing things. You're going through stuff. That has nothing to do with me. Right?
Stephanie: Yeah, it has nothing to do with my worth as a person or as a coach. It's just right now explaining the program and it's not the right fit for you. So, Michelle, how can people learn more about you and what you do?
Michelle: Sure. Well, we have a free Facebook group. Yeah. Health coach power community Facebook group, which is a great place to drop in. You're in there. We have a lot of like industry, you know, like names that are part of it. Cause I've been running this group for 10 years. 10 years. Yes. I started it before my youngest was born and it was mostly because I was so tired of working alone as a coach, you know, in my house at the kitchen table, I wanted like a water cooler and it has grown and it has grown. And now of course we have programs and things to support resources and a podcast and everything to support this community. But this is how it all began. So anyway, that's open to all health coaches and nutritionists and, you know, related. wellness professionals at health coach power community. com. We'd love to see you there.
Stephanie: What I like about your group is all the events that there is training events and life like there's a ton of resources and you're very, I guess, because of your advertising and marketing background, like you're really good, like at being specific in your event, like solving specific problems. So I think it's a great offering and it's free.
Michelle: And it's free. Thank you. We do a lot of things in there, right? We have a lot of fun. Yeah,
Stephanie: there's a constant flow of event. Maybe that's another podcast topic for the future. Like, you're very good at creating events, like solving one specific, like, if you guys want to learn about creating marketing event or eventing, like she is the bomb. And clearly it's because of your marketing background.
Michelle: Yeah, just come hang out and watch. See how people do it. And then I'll teach you how. Yeah, good time over there. It's always been about, you know, the rising tide, like rising tide lifts all boats. And that's what it is. We're all in this together. And so if I can teach you what I know, you can teach what you know, like the whole industry gets better.
Michelle: And I've seen that since the start. Of, of my career as a health coach, right? Like the whole industry has really elevated, but you know, we got a ways to go.
Stephanie: But it's all because you're coming from a place of service.
Michelle: Always. I think we all would gotten into like banking or something, right?
Stephanie: Yeah, or insurance. Medical insurance. Thank you Michelle for the beautiful conversation. Anytime.
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Asking for money as a woman with Michelle Leotta
Hey, welcome back my dear colleague. Today we’re going to have a hot conversation between two confident women. We’re going to talk about Asking for money as a woman, and I have a guest, who’s been in the coaching, health coaching industry like me, in her case for 14 years, in my case for 10 years, and we started with no business and built a business, and now we mentor other women to build their own business.
So the conversation and the coaching opportunity around becoming. comfortable and confident around money is one that we’ve had for a long time. And we both bring two different perspective to this conversation. So I invited her on the podcast to have this conversation. It’s one of the few women in our industry that I knew I could have an inspirational conversation for you on how to think about money differently. Why we struggle. As women, as coaches to ask for money and how we can think about it differently. How we can think about money, about selling, about consultation differently in order for us to create ease in asking for money. Michelle is a friend, a colleague. She specialized in helping health coaches. build businesses in that very specific niche. And, I hope you enjoy her. As much as I do, and I know if you listen to this conversation about asking for money, you will come out change as a woman from this conversation. So let’s roll the interview with Michelle.
Welcome to the show, Michelle.
Michelle: Thank you so much. I’m happy to be here with you.
Stephanie: I’m excited to talk with my partner about topics that no one else talks about. So I was on Michelle’s podcast not so long ago, we hit some hot topic. And today I want to talk about asking for money as a woman.
Stephanie: Let’s do it. I coach on that all the time in my mastermind struggling with doing the ask struggling about the conversation around money on the console determining our price like let’s go to the basic why are we struggling as women to ask for money what’s your thoughts on that
Michelle: I think that what if they say no, what if I am rejected? Is very much at the heart of it. And for women being rejected, I mean, this is shocking to me. There’s like studies, there’s. Statistics out there about how the greatest fear that a woman has is being essentially a bag lady, you know, it’s kind of an old term. Yeah, like in, you know, various studies that they’ve done like this comes across like we are afraid of being destitute. We are afraid of having no Money no one to take care of us not being attached to a man often comes along with that right a provider. So hearing no, you’re not worth the money because that’s what we hear in our head, or no for whatever reason I’m not going to give you money, I think, is very triggering for women who I mean. My mother’s generation could not even open up her own bank account without a man signing for it. So this is, we’re really like the first generation of women who are facing this head on.
Stephanie: Yeah, and it goes along to my world why women want to shrink their body is because they don’t want to be rejected. So, in the business setting on consultation women don’t want to be rejected with a no.
Michelle: Well, yeah, because if your body isn’t what you think it should be and you’re rejected, what does that mean? You’re not gonna marry that man who then provides for you because know, yeah, right Like it’s like a real primal fear
Stephanie: I think it’s really I think the first step is Acknowledging the context of it and where this fear comes from and why this fear is there And it has to do with our socialization as women.
Michelle: It’s been going on for Generation upon generation, you know, my grandmother. Got a secret job when I was little, yeah, she worked at the bakery while my grandfather was off at work, but it was a secret. He didn’t know about it because he would not have liked it, but she wanted to have pocket money to do with what she pleased.
Michelle: So she went ahead and got herself a job at the bakery anyway, and just told everybody to shut up about it. You know, the fact that just that’s. my own grandmother two generations ago had to sneak around to even just make a little pittance that she’s getting paid at the bakery. you know, it runs really deep.
Michelle: So I think you’re right.
Stephanie: it’s totally normal for us to be uncomfortable. Now that we understand why, like, how do we change that? How do we become more comfortable? I guess?
Michelle: Well, you know, okay, what happens? I’m sure you been in this industry a long time. So have I so I’m sure you’ve had a consultation or conversation with someone at some point and they said, No, I don’t know work with you.
Michelle: How was that?
Stephanie: It feels shitty. It feels rejected. There’s a lot of shame around this as well. Like I should have priced it less, I should have added more value to it. we look at ourselves as the problem, right?
Michelle: Yeah, I can feel really crappy for days. And sometimes I mean, I would be crying in the shower in the early days of my health coaching business because what did I do wrong?
Michelle: But interestingly, Just an hour ago, I was on a call with someone perspective student for one of my programs. And, you know, this is a health coach who’s looking for help with her business. Okay. But as I’m talking with her, I’m getting the sense that I don’t think it’s a good fit. Like I could have forced it.
Michelle: I could have tried. Yeah. And I decided in that moment, I didn’t want And so I did not offer my program to her. I never actually named a price or told her anything about it. I just listened to her story for about 15, 20 minutes. And, you know, I gave her some next steps and told her we could always have a conversation again later. And it felt so good because I knew that I could be. You know, back in the day when I started my business, I felt more desperate. I had to try to get that money. I had to, even if it went against my gut, even if it went against, I don’t say my value systems, I wouldn’t go that far, but it could, right.
Michelle: Sometimes it could, when you feel desperate. and so we need to be able to elevate ourselves to a position of, I mean, and same with how our bodies look and how we interact with, you know, men and marriage and everything, like I make the decision. You know, I’m interviewing you. If we get to the point where I decide that I’m going to offer you something, you’re lucky, you know, and not everyone’s going to get that bar. What do you think?
Stephanie: Yeah. And we are entering in a relationship together. And also, if you know, for me, if you know that your service Is not the right fit for them right now or could be in a year from now or like it’s not what’s going to help them if you’re coming at asking for money from a place of service, then it’s also your duty to not make the offer when you open up the space that you can make or not make the offer, then you are not. I have to you get out of despair and you’re like, this is a choice that I’m making to invite somebody to work with me.
Michelle: Exactly. And you’re right. If we’re coming from a place of service, there are many times that there’s a better direction somebody needs to be going in, you know, maybe they really need. Mental health professionals at this point, maybe they really need, you know, fill in the blank here and I start my consultations that way. I’ll say, listen, you know, we’re going to talk about this and this today. If I feel like my program can help you. I’ll tell you all about it. If I think you would do better with something else, I’ll point you in a different direction.
Michelle: How does that sound? And everyone’s like. That sounds amazing. That sounds so low pressure, like it really sets the stage for this to be an authentic conversation. And sometimes it really is hey, got a different idea for you.
Stephanie: Yeah, and it’s about this become then instead of a sales call, it becomes a conversation between two human if we are the right fit to work together from both sides.
Stephanie: Can I as a practitioner or coach see myself work with you? And can you see yourself work with me? So let’s have a human conversation. And so is it really about asking money? Because I know the title of the podcast is asking for money as a woman. But when you like, Entertain the selling conversation from a place of service, then is it really about asking for money?
Michelle: Right. you’re right. We use the term sales call. That’s what these things are called or discovery call or whatever. It’s a sales call. But yeah, as coaches, I just feel like the coaching relationship starts now, you know, it starts with that call sometimes before that call. And let’s just figure out what the right thing is Let me help you figure out what the right thing is for you.
Stephanie: And can we think about it from an exchange of money as opposed to asking for money? an energy exchange, for sure. An exchange of value. I’m going to give you value by helping you solve your problem. And in turn, you’re going to give me value in a form of currency, in a form of money. It’s an exchange of value.
Michelle: Now, how about this question again? You’ve been in this industry a long time. Have you ever taken on a client? And maybe you had a hunch up front or maybe you didn’t, but along the way, you realize there is no amount of money this person could have paid you that would have made the exchange equal.
Stephanie: Absolutely.
Stephanie: and I would say not so much now. I think it’s because I have been doing this long enough, like I’ve been selling the same thing long enough. Then I got really good at explaining the thing and making like clear who this is for. That people that land in the container with me are more and more refined to be the ideal person to be in that container.
Michelle: Agree. So it’s not a matter of having avatar that’s 40 to 50 who lives in the country. It’s a vibe, right? Yeah,
Stephanie: it’s more than just the age bracket is the for me in my world is the value of the individual that their value system match mind is the Place they want to go match mine, do the process to get there match mine. and I’ve said that so many, I’m not for everyone. Like I am for a very small percentage of the population, and that’s who I’m the perfect fit for. I’m not for everyone.
Michelle: And can we be comfortable with that?
Stephanie: How can we be more comfortable? And I think When you can be comfortable with that, that’s when asking for money doesn’t become a big deal.
Michelle: Because the people who do fit in that vibe with you, like you said, in your container, and you’re speaking the same language, I find that they already have their hand half raised, to pay you. Yes. You know, it’s not a big ask. It’s very different from if you just put up a billboard on the highway, you know, with a price tag, come work with me to anyone who drives by, you know, if you really reserve that ask for the people that are halfway there, I have found that takes a lot of the trepidation out of it improves closing rates, like crazy gets you off some of those other calls a lot faster.
Stephanie: Yeah. And you get. Yeah. Less people on the call, but much more aligned and those call don’t feel like a sales calls. They feel like a conversation between two human.
Michelle: Yeah. You know, once I implemented an application process ahead of my calls. My closing rate went to 90 to 100 percent. Tell me more about that. It was shocking. I mean, there’s so many problems that happen with these calls in the first place, right? You get no shows, reschedules, you know, whatever. Somebody’s on the call, but they’re actually in a restaurant having dinner with their family at the same time, and you’re like, what? What? So I created an application, that basically let me vet potential clients before even talking with them.
Michelle: So there are some things that any of us need to know and depending on who you are and, you know, What perspective you’re coming from, you might have different questions, like what’s something that you might need to know from a client right away to know if they’re even remotely going to be a fit for you
Stephanie: for me, in my case, like it is still on the pursuit of losing weight. That’s still their goal. Like,I want to lose weight and that’s what I’m ready to pay money for. Then I’m not your person because I cannot support you in that journey. Yeah, that’s a no go for me.
Michelle: And I know health coaches maybe who, follow a primal or paleo dogma. And so if someone were to fill out their application and indicate that they were a vegan and they wanted to remain a vegan, it’s great, you know, fine.
Michelle: Here’s somebody else that would be better to help you with your issue because I can’t get behind that. So, yeah, so asking about like their. Their views, their dogma, their desires, like that can be really helpful. you can ask questions about why they want to work with you. It’s an interesting question.
Michelle: Sometimes people have no idea. They just kind of stumbled upon your page or somehow they got to you yesterday. Other people will tell you, I have listened to every podcast episode you have ever recorded. I memorized them and relisten to them. And I have attended every free training you’ve ever had. And I know now’s the time to work with you.
Michelle: I’m ready. This person goes on the calendar and the other one not so much.
Stephanie: It avoids people wasting their time, too. Yes. Right? It’s not just our time and it’s their time. Like, why come on the call when you’re, like, some basic value or completely misaligned? you’re wasting your time and I’m wasting my time.
Stephanie: And, can I, we talk about this, too, if people are not willing to fill up five or six questions. Are they really going to say yes to your offer in a consultation when they can’t even invest five minutes to fill in an application?
Michelle: And you can learn so much by how they do it, because even if they do it, some people will just write like a dash where they’re supposed to fill in a blank, you know, they don’t fill it in, they just do something so that they can submit the form. Or maybe there’s a lot of misspellings, or maybe it’s just nonsense. Gibberish that they type in and you can even from that point. No, I don’t think we’re on the same page here. So it’s wild. The amount of psychology that goes into it, but it really it is in service. Yeah, saving everybody time. I honestly believe that. So big fan of having that process. there are other steps that I’ve played with inserting, you know, have people listen to a couple podcast episodes before the call, have people watch a certain video before the call, read case studies, you could send them things and let them know, I need you to complete this before our call. Because again, if they’re serious, they’re going to be very happy to do that.
Stephanie: Yeah. And I’ve even seen somebody, one of my coach, she wasn’t even doing the consultation. The consultation was just done to videos. if she would send you a video and if you said yes to this, they would send you the next video. Like the consultation was completely automated from video to video. I ended up buying because every video was what I needed to hear.
Michelle: That’s pretty amazing. That’s cool. Yeah, that
Stephanie: I have not read. When we think about asking for money, if we make it the right fit for both party, then there is less, I don’t want to say guilt and shame, but there’s less, worry about asking for money because you know, you’re both the right fit and it makes sense to both of you. And they’re going to get as much value as you.
Michelle: People will really surprise you. I have found because sometimes, you know, we burn our own money story. Can we talk about that? Yeah. I mean, I, was raised, I mean, my mom was single. she went to school at night, you know, to get a degree so that she could earn more, you know, we always had enough, but let’s just say most of my clothes came from Kmart, you know, so I, you know, I have a money story that came with that for sure, but sometimes I’ve now learned in 14 years of. offering services as a coach. Other people have very, very different view of money. Like it’s so amazing when I’ve had clients who were just like, yeah, sure. When can we start? Here’s my credit card number. And I just named like the highest price I’ve ever asked for from a client. In fact, here’s a funny story during quarantine.
Michelle: A couple of years ago when, you know, I was taking care of my boys, they didn’t have school. They were schooling at home, blah, blah, blah. It was very crazy time for everybody. And I decided I did not have time to take on any more private clients unless I said, well, if they paid me double, then I probably could figure it out.
Michelle: So I doubled my prices during that time. And, I had a consultation with someone who was an. Perfect fit. I mean, I really wanted to work with her and I felt so bad because like her husband had been furloughed and I just knew everyone was struggling. And so I did something I never do. And I never recommend. And I offered her two options. I gave her two prices, that big doubled price. And then I offered her a smaller package at a lower price. And she said, Michelle. I believe in you. I love everything you put out there. I want to work with you. I’m making plenty of money right now, and I’m gonna, I want to buy your biggest package and support you. Hot damn, that woman blew my mind.
Stephanie: Yeah, because you, she did clearly did not have the same money story as you were the past experience with money.
Michelle: She was abundant, you know, she felt her own abundance.
Stephanie: It’s so critical for us to understand is thought projection, how we’re projecting our own story, our own thoughts on people. And we think, well, everybody’s going to think it’s too expensive because I think it’s too expensive.
Michelle: Yup. And the way people think about their money is just wildly different. Anyone who has ever had a spouse or a roommate who didn’t pay the bills and you could not understand how they could not pay the bills, you know, right there, two different money stories. And it’s really wild. So when we’re Afraid to ask for money. I think that’s important to understand that person is not us. They might think that the 2000, $3,004,000 that we’re asking for is. Pocket change. Yes.
Stephanie: And it’s also how do we look, let’s think about that. Let’s talk about that. How do we look at our client? Do we look at our future client as being limited? Or do we look at our clients on the lens of what’s possible for them? And often it starts with how we look at ourself. if we look at ourself and we’re constantly looking at everything that’s not working and our limitation, we’re going to look at our future clients from a place of limitation instead of possibility and abundance.
Michelle: That’s so interesting. You’re right. I mean, it’s not just about money. Money is like the conversation that represents all the other conversations, right? Like how you do money is how you do everything.
Stephanie: I think it’s. So true. Think about that. if you think money is hard because it’s hard for you right now, because for whatever reason, like whatever money you have in the account, it’s even irrelevant to how money is easy or not.
Stephanie: You’re going to think like right now, there’s the word like, people are talking about recession, right? Like we’re in a recession. So people who constantly watch the news and are inundated with the recession, and perhaps somebody in their family has lost their job, they’re going to think everybody is living from that reality, unless they really check themselves and say, this is my reality, where in fact there’s people who do not have I’ve not been affected by the recession and the money’s still flowing in the same way it was before.
Michelle: Yeah, very much. They’re out there. I mean, yeah, the economy has certainly changed over the past, whatever, four years now, but it’s not everybody there. There are plenty of clients out there that are still ready, willing and able. I was thinking. The whole idea of I don’t want to ask because I’m afraid that they’re going to say no.
Michelle: Another aspect of that is very real, which is if you’ve thrown yourself into coaching you don’t have a source of income, otherwise you’re going to need to make every damn sale, right? You are honestly. You are strapped. And the solution to that is to not put yourself in that situation.
Stephanie: Oh, yeah. Talk about this, because that’s my perspective. yeah, I realize we don’t have the same opinion as most business coaches, quote unquote, right?
Michelle: Yeah, I do not ever want any of my health coaches to be in that kind of financial position. I do not want anyone to, you know, take out A high interest loan to afford any of my programs. You know, you don’t want to put yourself in that financial place because you’re going to make decisions that reek of desperation. So I am all on board with staying with your full time job. If you have a good salary, finding a, an exit strategy that works for you over time, finding a part time job, a couple of days a week, also changing the way you live. Like when I. Left my job in advertising. I had just been married and we bought a condo and we bought something that we could afford on one salary. So the pressure was not there. And I think that is incredibly important, especially for our younger coaches and our single coaches to hear, you know, if you don’t have another salary supporting you. You got to have your own back first.
Stephanie: Yeah. And it comes how the way we feel like about our money in that case, like if you’re in despair mode, because you’ve got to make that 2, 000 to pay the rent, your own rent, how effective is that relationship with your clients going to be? It’s going to be terrible because like you’re in despair mode from the start of that relationship.
Stephanie: And we have to bring that part job.
Michelle: Yes. you know, in the relationship, like we have to hold the space, right? It takes a lot of energy and this like internal spaciousness, but we’re, if we’re all like gripped up inside about our own situation and our own sense of safety, how can we safely hold the space for somebody else? There’s so much of that we think a lot of it in terms of what we’re eating or how we’re our self care practices, but I think taking care of our money situation also greatly impacts our ability to be a good coach
Stephanie: to your point. Well, it’s today’s society. We live in a society where all your basic needs transit via money, like shelter, food, like everything is money. We can’t be like ignorant to say, well, it has nothing to do with money. No bullshit. You can’t pay rent, you have a problem and that’s going to not going to put you in a good position. let’s talk about pricing because that’s another place that parallels to that. I often hear the complaint, but how do I decide, well, how determine my pricing so as many people as possible can work for me? And I see people underpricing themselves in order to help as many people as possible. What are your thoughts on that?
Michelle: well, insurance models. Are in place to do that, right? Insurance models are there so that people can go to a practitioner and pay a 20 copay. And then what kind of care do they receive? You know, do they get 6 minutes of a doctor’s time? Do they wait in a waiting room for 2 hours? You know, what is that experience like? So that those practitioners can be reimbursed the amount that they are from the insurance companies like doctors. And any provider that takes insurance are struggling and they’re cramming in as many patients as they possibly can to make that model work.
Michelle: And I don’t think that’s in service of anybody. So I don’t think we should aspire to help as many people as possible because most of us are single person shops over here. You know, we don’t even have a front desk. We don’t even have a waiting room. So we have to keep it manageable. so we don’t burn out. We have to earn enough. So that we don’t go under financially ourselves, because if we burn out, if we are not able to sustain our business, then we help absolutely nobody.
Stephanie: Yes.
Michelle: And then nobody wins. Then we’re going back to corporate America to get that job we hate. And it’s just, it all went nowhere.
Stephanie: friend of mine, her name is Kelly deals. She’s a feminist business coach. And she said, there’s no feminist business that the feminist business owner is not taking care of. First. Like owning that we need to take care of ourselves first in order for us to provide amazing service to people is the foundation. So, if you can’t pay your rent, if you can’t buy the food you want, if you can’t work. 35 hours a week and you have to work 75 hours a week to see as many people to make a baseline minimum. You will not be of service to people and you will burn out. You have to take care of yourself first. But again, I think as women, that’s hard to embody.
Michelle: It is, but you’re right. That model just cannot work. It can’t. So I’ll suggest a different model. This is one where you are charging higher prices. You’re pricing high ticket and when you make enough money because you have, you know, enough clients paying you enough money, now you can take on other types of clients, pro bono, reduced scholarships, things like this.
Michelle: it, this happens in every industry. And I know a lot about the advertising industry having worked in it in my first career. In the ad industry, every agency I worked at always has a bank client. So we had Bank of America, and I was an art director. The creative department hates working on the bank client because the bank does boring ads.
Michelle: Yeah, really boring. And there’s always an insurance client. Same thing. Boring stuff. Nobody wants to work on this account, but boy, do they pay well. And that’s how the agency can afford to take other clients and sometimes to even take on pro bono clients. So like I got to work on the Boy Scouts account one time and we did an anti smoking campaign one time that was incredibly creative and very cool paid. nothing. So in our industry, it’s the same, you need your bank clients first. And then you can have passion projects. And you can have pro bono clients and you have the freedom to do other things. But you got to find your bank.
Stephanie: No, I agree with you. Because in my field in the social justice world, people want to help everybody. So we got to first take care of ourselves and get That’s in the mind of our coaches, but then there’s so many different business sliding scales than their options, right? Where you like offer different prices for a certain program, like there’s so many ways of helping people without you being the bearer of the suffering.
Michelle: Right, because again, then no one wins. Nobody wins. And you can’t help. Obviously, you just can’t help everyone. here’s an example. So, in my own business over the past 3 or 4 years, I’ve given away over 30, 000 in scholarships to the BIPOC community, and I’m very proud of being able to do that. This has been an initiative that was important to me.
Michelle: It takes time. It takes effort, right? Any initiative in your business is going to take time and effort. You have to figure it out. How are we going to do this? The admin, the, you know, working out the kinks. Fine. So we got this going. Well, I’ll get emails or I’ll talk to coaches and let’s say, well, do you have any scholarships?
Michelle: and they don’t fit. They’re not part of the BIPOC community, so the answer is no. And I feel bad. I had someone ask me recently, she said, well, I’m a single mom of three kids. Do you have any scholarships? And I thought, gosh, I’m a single mom with kids. I should probably have a scholarship like that. And it’s even on my heart. I’ve handicapped all kinds of different reasons people ask for a scholarship. as a small business owner, I can only have so many initiatives. I can only administer and figure out like so many things, right? One woman show over here. So, so for now the answer has to be no, only because I don’t have a system in place for that. I can’t, I just can’t, you know, you have to have boundaries. You have to have policies. It’s like having a refund policy. You know, you just need something in black and white. And if I don’t have it figured out yet, Oh man, no, but maybe in the future. But for right now, no, we just have the BIPOC scholarship. So there’s an example of, you can’t always help everyone. You can only do what fits within your resources. we time your money and your energy
Stephanie: as we’re working towards the end of the podcast. This is a perfect place to circle back to the beginning, right? When you’re talking about having to say, no, you don’t have a scholarship for this, but you have 1 for this particular group of people comes back to that resiliency, that capacity to be told. No.
Michelle: Can you say no. Yeah. You have to say it in order to hear it.
Stephanie: Because if you can say it, and you can quote unquote reject people, then likely your tolerance of hearing no for good reason from a client perspective, I don’t have the money, it’s not the right fit for me at this time, there’ll be a better understanding of it.
Stephanie: And you know, it’s not about you. It’s about their current personal situation right now. Exactly. Thank Exactly. Because often it’s not about you. Can we just say that when people say, no, I don’t want to work with you? It has nothing to do with you as a human being.
Michelle: I’m not saying no to that single mom of three kids because I don’t think she’s got a good reason or story. It has nothing to do with her. I want to give her everything, but it has to me what’s going on over here on this side.
Stephanie: Voila. And the same thing in the consultation. When a client says no to you, it has nothing to do with you as a human coach behind has to do with whatever it, she doesn’t have the money. It’s not the right fit. It’s not her goal. Like we have to stop making it a sign of our words. Does that make sense?
Michelle: And I think that’s respect to a person to understand that they got a whole life going on over there, you know, we’re always the main character in our own story, but this person, you know, they don’t just exist to be on this call with us.
Michelle: They have a whole life of family and friends and circumstances. And if they have to say no right now, I’m good. I understand. You know, you’re managing things. You’re going through stuff. That has nothing to do with me. Right?
Stephanie: Yeah, it has nothing to do with my worth as a person or as a coach. It’s just right now explaining the program and it’s not the right fit for you. So, Michelle, how can people learn more about you and what you do?
Michelle: Sure. Well, we have a free Facebook group. Yeah. Health coach power community Facebook group, which is a great place to drop in. You’re in there. We have a lot of like industry, you know, like names that are part of it. Cause I’ve been running this group for 10 years. 10 years. Yes. I started it before my youngest was born and it was mostly because I was so tired of working alone as a coach, you know, in my house at the kitchen table, I wanted like a water cooler and it has grown and it has grown. And now of course we have programs and things to support resources and a podcast and everything to support this community. But this is how it all began. So anyway, that’s open to all health coaches and nutritionists and, you know, related. wellness professionals at health coach power community. com. We’d love to see you there.
Stephanie: What I like about your group is all the events that there is training events and life like there’s a ton of resources and you’re very, I guess, because of your advertising and marketing background, like you’re really good, like at being specific in your event, like solving specific problems. So I think it’s a great offering and it’s free.
Michelle: And it’s free. Thank you. We do a lot of things in there, right? We have a lot of fun. Yeah,
Stephanie: there’s a constant flow of event. Maybe that’s another podcast topic for the future. Like, you’re very good at creating events, like solving one specific, like, if you guys want to learn about creating marketing event or eventing, like she is the bomb. And clearly it’s because of your marketing background.
Michelle: Yeah, just come hang out and watch. See how people do it. And then I’ll teach you how. Yeah, good time over there. It’s always been about, you know, the rising tide, like rising tide lifts all boats. And that’s what it is. We’re all in this together. And so if I can teach you what I know, you can teach what you know, like the whole industry gets better.
Michelle: And I’ve seen that since the start. Of, of my career as a health coach, right? Like the whole industry has really elevated, but you know, we got a ways to go.
Stephanie: But it’s all because you’re coming from a place of service.
Michelle: Always. I think we all would gotten into like banking or something, right?
Stephanie: Yeah, or insurance. Medical insurance. Thank you Michelle for the beautiful conversation. Anytime.
