The word copywriting alone is an anxiety trigger for too many coaches.
And it doesn’t have to be this way.
In this podcast episode, Shawn Mynar will share 3 simple steps to turn your copywriting skills to pro level so clients find YOU instead of you spinning your wheels trying to find THEM.
Common Copywriting Traps for non-diet coaches
Shawn Mynar is a business coach and connection-based copywriter helping coaches and practitioners build burnout-proof businesses.
What you’ll learn listening to this episode on common copywriting traps for non-diet coaches:
- The top 3 mistakes to avoid when writing copy for your website
- What is “practitioner speak” and what to do instead
- How to make copywriting easier for you
Mentioned in the show:
Non-Diet Coaching Certification
Connect with our guest:
Shawn’s Free Masterclass – 3 Secrets to a Website that Stands out and Sells
Transcript:
Undiet Your Coaching Ep 91-Common Copywriting Traps for Non-Diet Coaches with Shawn Mynar
===
Hey, welcome back to the podcast, my dear colleague. Today we're going to talk about a topic that is really important to Creating sales in your business and working with more people and having more impact in your world, which is copywriting. Now, copywriting is this thing that we make up to be really complicated and needing a lot of training when in fact, Copywriting is the simple act of writing words about your offer, about yourself, about your program.
Copywriting is just writing words. That's all it is. Now these words that you're writing on your website, on your sales page, on your social media caption are all copy writing words. Now what I have seen to be the most challenging aspect of copywriting is switching our mind as practitioner and coaches to go from writing words. for ourselves to writing words for our ideal client.
Because that's what copywriting is. Copywriting is writing words so that we can connect with our ideal client, explain to them the work that we do and how we can help them solve their problem and presenting them with the way they can work with us.
That's what copywriting is, so we're writing words. For our ideal client, not for ourselves. So I brought an expert on the podcast, a very close friend of mine. She's a personal friend and she's a business colleague as well. Her name is Shawn Miner. She's been in the health coaching spheres for over 10 years.
We have known each other for over eight years and It's someone that have a high level of trust for her teaching, specifically around copywriting, and we have the most Insightful interview that you're going to listen to in just a few seconds here about copywriting. So get your pen and your paper out or your iPad out and take lots of notes.
Copywriting is something that can be easy and that's what Sean does. on a daily basis in her business. Now, she also have an offer, like a free webinar, that she's going to propose to you during the interview. And if you're starting in your business and you're new to this concept of writing words, aka copywriting, I would highly recommend that you take her up on that free training class on copywriting because I think it's going to get you started in writing words for your ideal client, not for yourself.
And if you want to take it to the next step with Sean. Highly recommend to work with her as well. So, without any further ado, let's deep dive in the world of copywriting with my friend, Sean. Let's roll the interview.
Shawn: Stephanie: Welcome to the show, Shawn.
Shawn: Thank you so much for having me, Steph. Always so much fun talking with you, my friend.
Stephanie: I'm so excited to have you as our copywriting expert. We've never talked about this topic in 87
Stephanie: show.
Shawn: That's a long time to not talk about the words we're using.
Stephanie: So when I heard that you were doing copywriting and you had. Knowledge to impart us with. I'm like, we got to talk about copywriting. So I'm going to start with the most basic question, if you can entertain me. What the heck is copywriting?
Shawn: Yeah, well, it's a good question, actually. And I think it's not one that's even talked about enough as business owners.
Shawn: But the thing is, if you have a business, if you are a business owner, You are writing copy every single day of your business life. So kind of important. The easiest definition that I use is that it's really any words that you are using in your business for your business. That doesn't necessarily mean like the sales words like in the sales page or anything you're doing when you're talking about.
Shawn: having someone buy something from you. It's everything. It's in your social media posts, your social media captions. It's on your website, on your homepage, your about page. It's, in all of your emails, any email that you are writing for your business. That is copy. So it's, I think technically a marketing thing, but you know, if you're in business, everything you do is marketing, even if you're not directly selling in something you are still selling yourself, selling the idea, selling the transformation.
Shawn: And all of that is done through. Your words, you know, you can't like mime what you want people to do. You have to use words and they're so important. And quite frankly, over the course of my time in business and, more specifically working with coaches and practitioners on their business. It is the most undervalued and underutilized skill out there. And that's why I really set out to change this by learning and sharing and talking about it openly in a way that's very approachable. Like it can sound scary to be like, Oh God, now I have to pay attention to every single word I'm using. All of it matters. It can really be overwhelming and then you kind of fear doing it at all.
Shawn: But instead I want to have a conversation of like how to just sound like yourself and share openly. And, really connect with people because that's really what it is. It's just about creating connections.
Stephanie: So, what I hear you say is copywriting is kind of a, it's normal writing, but intentional writing.
Shawn: Yes, it is normal writing, but it's an intentional writing. And, It's not what I think is so important is it's not professional. Like you have to be this amazing writer writing. It's just you being you. It's almost like really the best way to describe it is you talking how you speak. Like it, because when you think about it that way, we all have different nuances, different ways we say things and how we say things.
Shawn: And that's what makes you and in today's world, when you are a business owner, you have to set yourself apart. There's a lot going on. There are a lot of businesses and business owners out there, coaches and practitioners all doing something similar. So how can you set yourself apart? Well, you do that by being you.
Shawn: And the best way to do that is through your words. And if you can really shift away from this is what I'm supposed to say, this is how I'm supposed to sound. This is how it should sound. I need to really talk as a professional, and really be this amazing writer and really put a lot of thought and energy into it.
Shawn: Yes, you do, but coming from a place of just being you and really showing yourself through your words. and so you don't. You don't have to be a good writer. You don't have to have gotten an A plus in your grammar class or anything like that. it's actually breaks a lot of the traditional writing rules when you write good copy.
Shawn: But it's something that people can connect with and really get to know you and your personality through just by a few words. Cool.
Stephanie: So it's intentional writing, not deforming. your personality to fit a box of a style of writing. Yes. But it's creating a message, a very intentional message. In your way of speaking and the way of writing.
Shawn: A hundred percent. Yeah. I mean, really the pre work to good copy is good messaging. You know, it's and it goes hand in hand. So messaging is your message. It's what you want to share with the world through your work. It's a combination of a lot of different ingredients, but mainly thinking in terms or getting into the head of your dream client.
Shawn: And what they need to hear in the way that they need to hear it. So how they need to hear about their problem that, you know, they have, they may know they have, but how can you really connect with them and communicate with them about their problem? How can you connect and communicate with them about the solution, which.
Shawn: You're going to be a part of probably right? and your work is going to be the solution. or what you can do with them, the transformation, you know, their dream state, where they're going to be at the end and how can you connect and communicate with them about that? So that's messaging. That's where you really figure out what you want to say.
Shawn: And then your copy is how you say it.
Stephanie: Oh, brilliant. So, messaging is what I'm going to say and copy is how I'm going to say it. I've never heard anyone explain it so simply.
Shawn: To be honest, I've never said that until just now. Okay. It just came out. It came to me. Okay. this is like your new message.
Shawn: I like created a new tagline here. Yeah.
Shawn: That's brilliant. We're marketing your business.
Stephanie: Okay. Perfect. So, copywriting and messaging is clear. Now, you help people write their copy, you teach copywriting and messaging to people. Once they understand what it is, what do you see as being the, the mistake that people make? the most common error or wrong turn in the road that people take with their copy and messaging?
Shawn: Well, and this is specific to, and I know we were talking to a lot of coaches and practitioners. Yes. So, very specific to this. I call it practitioner speak. There is an actual phrase that I use for this. And it is this place where kind of like I was stating before, we are trying to be really professional.
Shawn: We're trying to share everything that we know and what an expert we are in this particular thing, because of course we want people to know, we get it. We can help you. We are your people, come work with us. Right. And so we get into this very like professional speak where we lose our clients because they are not there.
Shawn: You are talking from your brain instead of taking yourself out of the equation and speaking in their brain, speaking from where they're at, from their place, using their words. So for example, just randomly, your dream client may not know what gut dysbiosis is. And so you talking all about how you help people with gut dysbiosis and bloody, bloody block means nothing to them.
Shawn: You've completely lost them. It's over their head. But if you say, Hey, you know how you always are bloated after you eat your meals. You know, how you always have to run to the bathroom for no reason at all. That is that they get that they understand, oh my gosh, yes. How did she know? and so, so the practitioner speak, I see so often.
Shawn: And what I want to do is just I want to take off this veil and just see you as a human and have you speak, like I said, just how you would talk if you were talking to a five year old. Trying to explain what you do just really and I don't it's not dumbing it down. It's just taking it to a different level.
Shawn: It's taking it. Out of that practitioner mode and into a real just humanness mode, just being a human connecting with another human and offering to help.
Stephanie: So, I just want to make a parallel to what you said earlier, copywriting is intentional writing on how we write our message. And so, yeah, we use the word gut dysbiosis, whatever the thing is. And when you speak to our colleague, but when we copyright. We don't use that certain terminology. We use a terminology our clients are using.
Shawn: Yes. Yes. We, you talking to your colleague or your colleague talking to you is not the same conversation as you talking to your dream client. The only thing they know is that they're bloated all the time and they need help with their bloating.
Shawn: They don't know that it's got diab dysbiosis. They don't even care. They're just like, can this person help me? Yes. And so you have to get on their level. It is not about your level. It's their level. That is when you build that connection and, you actually get people to read and interact with your work.
Shawn: So, you know, if you're posting on social media and you're not getting a whole lot of interaction or engagement, you have to look at your copy. are you using that practitioner speak, kind of level and how can you adjust that to be? to where your dream clients are at. That's
Stephanie: brilliant. And I'm going to translate that for people that are in the non diet space.
Stephanie: For me, this is when I hear people sell a program about intuitive eating, which the client doesn't know what intuitive eating is. People just want to stop restricting food. They want to stop feeling guilty about food. They don't know what it, they don't know the name of the solutions. They just want to have a normal eating pattern.
Shawn: Yes. Yes. That's it. 100%.
Stephanie: And what is eating is practitioner speak.
Shawn: Yep. Exactly. Yeah. so that is what you do. But that doesn't really matter. What matters is What's going to happen? This is the problem I'm having now. This is where I wanna be. Talk to me there.
Stephanie: Amazing. So that's the most frequent Yes. Challenges that people have with copywriting is using practitioner speak.
Shawn: Yeah. Just because you have a business doesn't mean you need to be all like zipped up and professional. You know, it, it can be just flowy and free in what you would actually say if you were talking to a human. Amazing. Yeah, so that's the biggest mistake for sure by far that I see specifically in this area.
Shawn: What's the next one? I would say the next one is talking about deliverables versus. What I think of as like valuables like we get really into and this is kind of specifically when you're talking about an offer you have or a freebie you have or something that you want people to take action on and purchase or sign up for or something like that.
Shawn: We talk all about all the things they're going to get. Like the deliverables, like you're going to get 10 coaching sessions. You're going to get four modules. You're going to get a Facebook group. You're going to get all this stuff. Cool. That's great. And there is a place for that, but nobody cares if you haven't first talked about why they should care.
Shawn: You know, like why they even need this, what this is going to do for them, how they're going to experience this transformation, where they're starting out, where they'll, there will be the journey you're going to take them on. You have to really set the stage first. And so I call that the valuables because it's creating that value of why they should care about how many coaching sessions they get.
Shawn: You know, if you start with that stuff too early, you've lost them. You know, because you haven't built up that environment for them to find value in what you're about to share. or what they're going to get. So. I think it's,something that kind of comes from this feeling of needing to quote unquote sell, but you're not selling the deliverables, you're not selling this package, you're selling the reason why they need that package. The reason why they need to work with you. The transformation they're going to be going through when they do.
Stephanie: You're not selling the number of page in your workbook. Yeah. Right? That's not why they're listening to you. You're selling the transformation once they're finished a workbook.
Shawn: Yes, exactly. And it's if you do a good job of creating that environment, no one cares how many pages are in the workbook.
Shawn: No one cares how many coaches sessions they get. They just are like, Oh my gosh, this is what's ahead for me. Sign me up. Where's the button to click? I'm in. They don't even need to read that. Now it's good to still put that on your sales page or whatever you have. For sure, it's still talk about that because there are those kinds of people that really are analytical, want to read every line, want to know exactly what's going on.
Shawn: But like I said, they, nobody's going to care until you create that environment ahead of time.
Stephanie: And it's almost, for me, it feels when you lead with the, what you call the deliverable, you overwhelm people. Mm hmm. Yeah, especially when like what I call a regular person to know that they have four modules and they have videos and they have workbook.
Stephanie: They're like, Oh, fuck. I don't want to go back to school.
Shawn: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. nobody too much. I'm
Stephanie: already busy. I'm I have a problem with time. Do I really want four module and 25 page workbook?
Shawn: Yeah, nobody wants Of course, nobody wants a coaching program. Nobody wants a coaching package. They want what's going to come of that.
Shawn: And so if you said here, I can give you this coaching package, that's eight weeks long, or I can give you this magic pill. Both will do the same thing. Which one do you want? They're going to take the magic pill, right? So your job is to make it seem like that coaching package is a magic pill. It's easy, it works, it's this, it's that, it's fun, you're gonna get so much out of it to the point where they're like, cool, I'm in, where's the button?
Stephanie: Amazing. And it will make people feel light, feel like they're getting a ton of value coming in and working with you instead of being hesitant and overwhelmed from the Get go.
Shawn: Yeah, it's not. It's like a lot of times there's this list of all these things you get, and it's like a 500 value, 1, 000 value, all this stuff, like really making it very appealing, but that's not where the value is. Nobody cares if your five coaching sessions are 1, 000 in value. They care about you. And really you should have already created this feeling of value ahead of time in how you talk about. Where they're at, how they're experiencing things right now, where they want to be, where they're going to go, and the process that they'll take to get them there, you know, like how you'll be there for them and that kind of thing.
Shawn: Is
Stephanie: it possible that we do this because we don't know how to describe the
Shawn: value? Yes, I think it's. Honestly, talking about the deliverables is like the easy thing. It's okay, I know I just created this program. I know there's four modules. I can say that. And that is something that can fill this space on this page.
Shawn: But what I think is happening is kind of reversing to what we were talking about earlier, that messaging piece that comes before the copywriting. No one's doing that. You're not taking the time to do that. And so when it comes time to fill this whole page, let's say a sales page with, words, you're like, I don't know what to say.
Shawn: I have no idea what to say. So I'm just going to say what I know, which is this has four modules. But if you actually do that messaging work before, then you have a ton, like basically, you know, I have a whole work at workbook. That's a messaging workbook. And it basically just creates your whole sales page for you.
Shawn: Like, all you're doing is transferring it over because Cocky pace and cocky pace. Yeah, because you've created this scenario already. You did it in this, non sales page environment, which feels a lot less, intimidating, if you're just kind of working through some questions. But then you then have Basically your sales page created because you've gone through the process of figuring out where they're at and what they need to hear in their language, figuring out where they want to be, what their dream resolution is in their language.
Shawn: And that is the whole, essentially the whole like path of your sales page. And then we get to the deliverables. So I really think it's yes, it's an easier option simply because you haven't gone through the entire process and we're not. You know, I say this all the time. We're coaches. We're not marketers. We're not salesmen, you know, salespeople. So it doesn't necessarily come naturally. It's something you have to learn. It's something you have to kind of, do the work to figure out. Like coaching comes very easily for a lot of people in our worlds. Marketing, not so much.
Stephanie: You got to build the skills.
Stephanie: Yes. There's so many amazing coaches that do not have a full time business coaching because they have not built the skill set of copywriting and selling and messaging.
Shawn: bazillion percent. That's so many coaches because like I said, coaching, cool, could do that all day. Getting people to want my coaching. I don't know how.
Stephanie: Yeah, because we don't have the skill set that needs to be built over practice and practice and practice.
Shawn: Yes. And we can both attest to this after years and years and years of doing it. It just takes practice. It's not, you're not immediately great at it from the beginning. You just keep going. You keep doing it. You figure out what works, what doesn't. And go from there and you just can't give up on it.
Stephanie: Okay, cool. What is the next thing we need to avoid? The next mistake to avoid?
Shawn: Yeah, I think, this one is, has a little nuance to it. But it is really important to talk about. And I think this, again, comes from not knowing any different. And that is talking about yourself too much. So your copy is not about you at all. There's nothing in it about you now. Yes. This is where the nuance comes in. Yes. You have an about page on your website. You have to talk about yourself. You have to share your story, but even the about page on your website is not about you.
Shawn: It's about you as it relates to them. same thing with you know, there's a little about sections on your sales page or on your landing pages. Yes, there is a section where. You talk about yourself, but again, as it relates to them, why do they care about you? Why should they care about you? It's not like this big, huge spiel to talk about your accolades and your education and everything you've done and list all these things out.
Shawn: It's not a resume. It's a place for them to connect with you. So I think, really the biggest and best thing and easiest thing you can do here is start looking at. What you have written potentially in your business, like from website to social media captions, everything. And see how many times you say I or me and see if you can just switch that sentence a little bit, take out the I and me, and make it more about them like it's their thing.
Shawn: This is what they can do. So like it's simple things like I'm so excited to share this thing that I created for you after all my years of experience. This is what I now have for you. There's a lot of, I in there, like I created this thing. I'm so excited. So instead of that, you know, what can you do to just excitedly share this thing for them, make it about them. So that's one of the kind of, like I said, I think it just comes from not knowing any better. It's you don't really know what else to say. So you're going to naturally speak to how you're feeling and what you've done and, how it affects them. We want to just keep it towards them. All about them.
Stephanie: I was reviewing a sales page in a coaching call recently. And the formatting of the sales page was like the name of the program and the visual. And then the story of the, of in this case was a practitioner, was a social worker, like her story for seven paragraph.
Shawn: Yes. Is that bad?
Stephanie: Okay. That's not what I told her. I'm like, did I coach her right? I'm like, doesn't feel right. this is not about you. It's about them. they should have the answer to their question when they land on your page. They don't want to know about you. Right.
Shawn: They want to know about you, but later. Yes. They want again, they want to know about you, but only in this Way of like, why are you the person to help me? Why should I care? You know, that kind of thing, but still keeping it in their realm. Like why? This matters to them. Your story is great. I think there is a ton of space within like your emails and even in your about page and things like that to share your story and people do love a good story. They do like to know more about you, but it has to be again going back to that world where it intentional.
Shawn: And, in the right time, in the right place, and again, bringing it back to why they should care. Right? So still making it about them at the end. So always a good practice. That would be a great opportunity to be like, Hey, let's look at how many times in this seven paragraphs you've said I and me and my.
Shawn: And you'll see it's like a lot if it's all about their story. And so then you can start seeing okay, how can I Either incorporate this story and make it about them, or how can I create another scenario that's focused on them and their story, and then use my story down below when it's more appropriate in the about section,
Stephanie: what I find, and this is where, I don't do copywriting coaching. Obviously, that's not my thing. I have some high level knowledge. But what I find from a mindset perspective is that the level of confidence of the coach will be expressed through how the copy is written. So if the level of confidence of the coach is Low or quite not there yet, then that's when the story about them trying to prove themselves with their copy.
Stephanie: Do you see the same thing?
Shawn: Yes. A hundred percent. And that's also where that practitioner speak comes in too, because it's I have to prove that I know what I'm talking about. I have to prove that I have this education and this experience and I can help. And that just completely goes over your people's head. They do not care about that
Stephanie: because what I say when I see that I'm like you're making the copy. To fulfill your needs, which is to prove yourself instead of fulfilling the people who are going to read it needs, which is this is the problem. This is the solution. This is how I can help you. You're making yourself more important than your future client.
Shawn: Yeah, right. And they can feel that, you know, you can absolutely feel that when you see that. And you can also feel someone's lack of confidence. Just through their words, even if you're trying to prove it that you feel that, you know, every of course, getting into the side of things, every word has an energetic expression. So. You can sense the energy of you through your copywriting, right? So if you truly are confident, like you'll be able to tell, even as you start interacting and start kind of noticing other people's copy, which I do always recommend, like now that you're in tune with how important copy is in your business, start looking at other people's copy and you'll be able to tell how you can feel the energy of the person through their copy.
Stephanie: Totally. I was reviewing social media of a person recently, and all I could feel was anger, anger, anger, anger, because it was like, I'm right, they're wrong. And in the case of diet culture, and I see that a lot, I'm right, diet culture is wrong. And it's the tone use made me feel like, I don't want to read anymore, because it's just anger everywhere.
Shawn: Yes, absolutely. I mean, that's just infused in every word that you say or write, you know, it's just infused the energy.
Stephanie: Amazing. Okay. So we've got three mistakes that we can avoid. Do you have any tips on things? We should focus on when we write copy. I know you do have a, an amazing offer and please explain to people like how they can get more training from you.
Stephanie: But what would be a couple tips you have for people?
Shawn: I think going back again to what I said, but, talking about a little more. In just writing how you speak, like keeping it very casual and something that people actually want to read, think about how you talk, like the certain words you say a lot when you're talking or how you speak or different nuances and things that you do and see if you can infuse that into your writing and really your personality to like, don't forget about your personality.
Shawn: it's so fun to read people's. Even if it's an email that ends up selling me something, if it has personality, I'm reading it. You know, instead of it just being this like kind of boring, like thing that, Oh God, they're selling something now, you know, we don't, no one wants that. So how can you infuse your personality and who you are and your energy, your vibe, of course, all of that stuff.
Shawn: But, really. Keeping it casual and fun and easy to read. we don't have to go by any of the traditional, things that you may have learned. Like I said, just really see, and you'll see this, in the stuff that I write. The emails and stuff that I write, every sentence is like a different line. And I'm really breaking things up and making things easy to read. Some of them aren't even full sentences. But it keeps it flowing. It keeps it easy to read. And it's just my vibe. so, that's something to look at and go, that goes to another tip. And like I said, is to really look at other people's copy and see what you're drawn to and what you want to read.
Shawn: I mean, I do this for everything in my business and always have, it's like. What kind of work are you drawn to what are they doing that you could do to in your own way and kind of making your at your own just really focus on that and you'll notice now that I pointed it out, you'll be able to notice who's using practitioner speak.
Shawn: Versus who's just talking like they're talking to another human and you'll be able to point that out. So just start noticing, start seeing how you can maybe change some things, start kind of auditing your own copy, anything that you do have written for your business. And, see where you can make some tweaks and see where you can maybe have things flow a little more, create more personality, take out those eyes and knees and make it more about them.
Shawn: Take people on a journey. You know, this is really your time to, express yourself and to really connect. Like it's all about connection. And when we do that, we don't have to worry about being salesy. We don't have to worry about being like annoying or anything like that. When it comes time to sell our stuff, because we're just creating a connection and we've been doing that forever.
Shawn: Yes, that's all it is. Human to human. And the more humanness you can create for your people, the more likely they will to purchase.
Stephanie: So find somebody who's listening to all of this Oh my God, yes, like they're speaking in my term. the next place where people go is this is going to take forever.
Shawn: You, you would think that, except you will be surprised at how easy it is once you really tap in. And like I said, do that messaging work first, because even if you're not, you don't consider yourself a good writer, you don't find writing easy, as soon as you understand, oh, all I'm doing is just, Like having this heart to heart with my client right now in everything I write, you'll be amazed at how much easier it is to write this than it has been to try to write something for your business up until now.
Shawn: Try to follow rules. Yes, exactly. When you can just let those rules go and just be a normal person talking to another person.
Stephanie: So do you have a tool, you have a free masterclass that can take people to the next step after this conversation and start practicing some of this copywriting?
Shawn: Yes, I think the best and easiest place to start that almost also has the best bang for your buck in your business is on your website. So I think because once you've really developed good copy on your website, that translates into everything into your social media posts, your emails, your sales pages, everything.
Shawn: So really starting with your website is the best place. To get, a good grip on your message, your copy, and then, let that translate. So I have a free masterclass going on right now. Seanminor. com slash web class is the place to go. And, it really shows you the three strategies to use on your website to transform it from like potentially boring, blah, basic into something that people actually want to read, want to stick around.
Shawn: It creates connection. And it gets people to want to take the next step with you, want to learn more from you, want to, you know, become a paying client. How cool would that be? Your website has so much power in your business. If done well, you know, it can really be this place where no one goes, no one cares, not getting any traffic or doing anything for your business.
Shawn: Or simply by changing the words you use can be this place that really creates connection and trust with your community. And can create sales in your business. So, three strategies. Totally free to learn them. I teach them all there and, you can get started with your website.
Stephanie: And I love that you're going to the website first, because here's what I see.
Stephanie: I see people spending a lot of money on photoshoot, trying to offset the lack of clarity because their website is not converting. And we are overspending on visual, instead of spending the time to craft. A message that will make the visual a lot less important. Not to say that a good professional photo is not important, but you don't need to spend thousands of dollars on a photo shoot if you have good wording.
Shawn: Yeah, well, and if you do spend thousands on a photo shoot, it's going to be all for nothing when you don't have the copy. it's not going to matter. And like I say with the website, because so many people, when they think about their website, they're like, Oh, I have to go get this beautiful template and these photos and all this stuff.
Shawn: Yes, and branding in this amazing logo and like sure that stuff all is good, but, you know, having a good looking website will potentially get someone's attention, but good copy keeps their attention. I mean, how many websites, social media posts, again, like literally out of thin air was to talk to you to get all this stuff.
Shawn: but yeah, no, it's true. It's it. How many websites do you click off of as soon as you're like, wait, what is even going on? yeah, this is got my attention. Like it looks cool, but they have no idea what they're talking about, or this has no flow, or I don't even know what they do. But then, same goes for being on a website that has good copy, that keeps your attention, that wants, you know, you want to keep reading, you want to go to their about page, you want to see what services they offer.
Shawn: That's what your website can do with the right words.
Stephanie: Amazing. Okay. The link for your, masterclass, the web class is in the show notes as well. This has been Brilliant. So much value and resources for people like just to get started with the podcast and then take the free classes and then move on to the next step. But I think this is what's missing in once you've gone through the basic, like you've gone through the basic, like of knowing what you do and being good at what you do. That's the next step to convert more client.
Shawn: Yeah, being able to put what you do into words that people get.
Shawn: Yes, that people connect to.
Shawn: Yep. Exactly.
Shawn: Thank you, Sean.
Shawn: Thank you for having me. It's so fun. I always love being here. I think it's been a couple of times now, but, yeah, this has been great. Thank you.
.
Common Copywriting Traps for Non-Diet Coaches
Hey, welcome back to the podcast, my dear colleague. Today we’re going to talk about a topic that is really important to Creating sales in your business and working with more people and having more impact in your world, which is copywriting. Now, copywriting is this thing that we make up to be really complicated and needing a lot of training when in fact, Copywriting is the simple act of writing words about your offer, about yourself, about your program.
Copywriting is just writing words. That’s all it is. Now these words that you’re writing on your website, on your sales page, on your social media caption are all copy writing words. Now what I have seen to be the most challenging aspect of copywriting is switching our mind as practitioner and coaches to go from writing words. for ourselves to writing words for our ideal client.
Because that’s what copywriting is. Copywriting is writing words so that we can connect with our ideal client, explain to them the work that we do and how we can help them solve their problem and presenting them with the way they can work with us.
That’s what copywriting is, so we’re writing words. For our ideal client, not for ourselves. So I brought an expert on the podcast, a very close friend of mine. She’s a personal friend and she’s a business colleague as well. Her name is Shawn Miner. She’s been in the health coaching spheres for over 10 years.
We have known each other for over eight years and It’s someone that have a high level of trust for her teaching, specifically around copywriting, and we have the most Insightful interview that you’re going to listen to in just a few seconds here about copywriting. So get your pen and your paper out or your iPad out and take lots of notes.
Copywriting is something that can be easy and that’s what Sean does. on a daily basis in her business. Now, she also have an offer, like a free webinar, that she’s going to propose to you during the interview. And if you’re starting in your business and you’re new to this concept of writing words, aka copywriting, I would highly recommend that you take her up on that free training class on copywriting because I think it’s going to get you started in writing words for your ideal client, not for yourself.
And if you want to take it to the next step with Sean. Highly recommend to work with her as well. So, without any further ado, let’s deep dive in the world of copywriting with my friend, Sean. Let’s roll the interview.
Shawn:
Stephanie: Welcome to the show, Shawn.
Shawn: Thank you so much for having me, Steph. Always so much fun talking with you, my friend.
Stephanie: I’m so excited to have you as our copywriting expert. We’ve never talked about this topic in 87
Stephanie: show.
Shawn: That’s a long time to not talk about the words we’re using.
Stephanie: So when I heard that you were doing copywriting and you had. Knowledge to impart us with. I’m like, we got to talk about copywriting. So I’m going to start with the most basic question, if you can entertain me. What the heck is copywriting?
Shawn: Yeah, well, it’s a good question, actually. And I think it’s not one that’s even talked about enough as business owners.
Shawn: But the thing is, if you have a business, if you are a business owner, You are writing copy every single day of your business life. So kind of important. The easiest definition that I use is that it’s really any words that you are using in your business for your business. That doesn’t necessarily mean like the sales words like in the sales page or anything you’re doing when you’re talking about.
Shawn: having someone buy something from you. It’s everything. It’s in your social media posts, your social media captions. It’s on your website, on your homepage, your about page. It’s, in all of your emails, any email that you are writing for your business. That is copy. So it’s, I think technically a marketing thing, but you know, if you’re in business, everything you do is marketing, even if you’re not directly selling in something you are still selling yourself, selling the idea, selling the transformation.
Shawn: And all of that is done through. Your words, you know, you can’t like mime what you want people to do. You have to use words and they’re so important. And quite frankly, over the course of my time in business and, more specifically working with coaches and practitioners on their business. It is the most undervalued and underutilized skill out there. And that’s why I really set out to change this by learning and sharing and talking about it openly in a way that’s very approachable. Like it can sound scary to be like, Oh God, now I have to pay attention to every single word I’m using. All of it matters. It can really be overwhelming and then you kind of fear doing it at all.
Shawn: But instead I want to have a conversation of like how to just sound like yourself and share openly. And, really connect with people because that’s really what it is. It’s just about creating connections.
Stephanie: So, what I hear you say is copywriting is kind of a, it’s normal writing, but intentional writing.
Shawn: Yes, it is normal writing, but it’s an intentional writing. And, It’s not what I think is so important is it’s not professional. Like you have to be this amazing writer writing. It’s just you being you. It’s almost like really the best way to describe it is you talking how you speak. Like it, because when you think about it that way, we all have different nuances, different ways we say things and how we say things.
Shawn: And that’s what makes you and in today’s world, when you are a business owner, you have to set yourself apart. There’s a lot going on. There are a lot of businesses and business owners out there, coaches and practitioners all doing something similar. So how can you set yourself apart? Well, you do that by being you.
Shawn: And the best way to do that is through your words. And if you can really shift away from this is what I’m supposed to say, this is how I’m supposed to sound. This is how it should sound. I need to really talk as a professional, and really be this amazing writer and really put a lot of thought and energy into it.
Shawn: Yes, you do, but coming from a place of just being you and really showing yourself through your words. and so you don’t. You don’t have to be a good writer. You don’t have to have gotten an A plus in your grammar class or anything like that. it’s actually breaks a lot of the traditional writing rules when you write good copy.
Shawn: But it’s something that people can connect with and really get to know you and your personality through just by a few words. Cool.
Stephanie: So it’s intentional writing, not deforming. your personality to fit a box of a style of writing. Yes. But it’s creating a message, a very intentional message. In your way of speaking and the way of writing.
Shawn: A hundred percent. Yeah. I mean, really the pre work to good copy is good messaging. You know, it’s and it goes hand in hand. So messaging is your message. It’s what you want to share with the world through your work. It’s a combination of a lot of different ingredients, but mainly thinking in terms or getting into the head of your dream client.
Shawn: And what they need to hear in the way that they need to hear it. So how they need to hear about their problem that, you know, they have, they may know they have, but how can you really connect with them and communicate with them about their problem? How can you connect and communicate with them about the solution, which.
Shawn: You’re going to be a part of probably right? and your work is going to be the solution. or what you can do with them, the transformation, you know, their dream state, where they’re going to be at the end and how can you connect and communicate with them about that? So that’s messaging. That’s where you really figure out what you want to say.
Shawn: And then your copy is how you say it.
Stephanie: Oh, brilliant. So, messaging is what I’m going to say and copy is how I’m going to say it. I’ve never heard anyone explain it so simply.
Shawn: To be honest, I’ve never said that until just now. Okay. It just came out. It came to me. Okay. this is like your new message.
Shawn: I like created a new tagline here. Yeah.
Shawn: That’s brilliant. We’re marketing your business.
Stephanie: Okay. Perfect. So, copywriting and messaging is clear. Now, you help people write their copy, you teach copywriting and messaging to people. Once they understand what it is, what do you see as being the, the mistake that people make? the most common error or wrong turn in the road that people take with their copy and messaging?
Shawn: Well, and this is specific to, and I know we were talking to a lot of coaches and practitioners. Yes. So, very specific to this. I call it practitioner speak. There is an actual phrase that I use for this. And it is this place where kind of like I was stating before, we are trying to be really professional.
Shawn: We’re trying to share everything that we know and what an expert we are in this particular thing, because of course we want people to know, we get it. We can help you. We are your people, come work with us. Right. And so we get into this very like professional speak where we lose our clients because they are not there.
Shawn: You are talking from your brain instead of taking yourself out of the equation and speaking in their brain, speaking from where they’re at, from their place, using their words. So for example, just randomly, your dream client may not know what gut dysbiosis is. And so you talking all about how you help people with gut dysbiosis and bloody, bloody block means nothing to them.
Shawn: You’ve completely lost them. It’s over their head. But if you say, Hey, you know how you always are bloated after you eat your meals. You know, how you always have to run to the bathroom for no reason at all. That is that they get that they understand, oh my gosh, yes. How did she know? and so, so the practitioner speak, I see so often.
Shawn: And what I want to do is just I want to take off this veil and just see you as a human and have you speak, like I said, just how you would talk if you were talking to a five year old. Trying to explain what you do just really and I don’t it’s not dumbing it down. It’s just taking it to a different level.
Shawn: It’s taking it. Out of that practitioner mode and into a real just humanness mode, just being a human connecting with another human and offering to help.
Stephanie: So, I just want to make a parallel to what you said earlier, copywriting is intentional writing on how we write our message. And so, yeah, we use the word gut dysbiosis, whatever the thing is. And when you speak to our colleague, but when we copyright. We don’t use that certain terminology. We use a terminology our clients are using.
Shawn: Yes. Yes. We, you talking to your colleague or your colleague talking to you is not the same conversation as you talking to your dream client. The only thing they know is that they’re bloated all the time and they need help with their bloating.
Shawn: They don’t know that it’s got diab dysbiosis. They don’t even care. They’re just like, can this person help me? Yes. And so you have to get on their level. It is not about your level. It’s their level. That is when you build that connection and, you actually get people to read and interact with your work.
Shawn: So, you know, if you’re posting on social media and you’re not getting a whole lot of interaction or engagement, you have to look at your copy. are you using that practitioner speak, kind of level and how can you adjust that to be? to where your dream clients are at. That’s
Stephanie: brilliant. And I’m going to translate that for people that are in the non diet space.
Stephanie: For me, this is when I hear people sell a program about intuitive eating, which the client doesn’t know what intuitive eating is. People just want to stop restricting food. They want to stop feeling guilty about food. They don’t know what it, they don’t know the name of the solutions. They just want to have a normal eating pattern.
Shawn: Yes. Yes. That’s it. 100%.
Stephanie: And what is eating is practitioner speak.
Shawn: Yep. Exactly. Yeah. so that is what you do. But that doesn’t really matter. What matters is What’s going to happen? This is the problem I’m having now. This is where I wanna be. Talk to me there.
Stephanie: Amazing. So that’s the most frequent Yes. Challenges that people have with copywriting is using practitioner speak.
Shawn: Yeah. Just because you have a business doesn’t mean you need to be all like zipped up and professional. You know, it, it can be just flowy and free in what you would actually say if you were talking to a human. Amazing. Yeah, so that’s the biggest mistake for sure by far that I see specifically in this area.
Shawn: What’s the next one? I would say the next one is talking about deliverables versus. What I think of as like valuables like we get really into and this is kind of specifically when you’re talking about an offer you have or a freebie you have or something that you want people to take action on and purchase or sign up for or something like that.
Shawn: We talk all about all the things they’re going to get. Like the deliverables, like you’re going to get 10 coaching sessions. You’re going to get four modules. You’re going to get a Facebook group. You’re going to get all this stuff. Cool. That’s great. And there is a place for that, but nobody cares if you haven’t first talked about why they should care.
Shawn: You know, like why they even need this, what this is going to do for them, how they’re going to experience this transformation, where they’re starting out, where they’ll, there will be the journey you’re going to take them on. You have to really set the stage first. And so I call that the valuables because it’s creating that value of why they should care about how many coaching sessions they get.
Shawn: You know, if you start with that stuff too early, you’ve lost them. You know, because you haven’t built up that environment for them to find value in what you’re about to share. or what they’re going to get. So. I think it’s,something that kind of comes from this feeling of needing to quote unquote sell, but you’re not selling the deliverables, you’re not selling this package, you’re selling the reason why they need that package. The reason why they need to work with you. The transformation they’re going to be going through when they do.
Stephanie: You’re not selling the number of page in your workbook. Yeah. Right? That’s not why they’re listening to you. You’re selling the transformation once they’re finished a workbook.
Shawn: Yes, exactly. And it’s if you do a good job of creating that environment, no one cares how many pages are in the workbook.
Shawn: No one cares how many coaches sessions they get. They just are like, Oh my gosh, this is what’s ahead for me. Sign me up. Where’s the button to click? I’m in. They don’t even need to read that. Now it’s good to still put that on your sales page or whatever you have. For sure, it’s still talk about that because there are those kinds of people that really are analytical, want to read every line, want to know exactly what’s going on.
Shawn: But like I said, they, nobody’s going to care until you create that environment ahead of time.
Stephanie: And it’s almost, for me, it feels when you lead with the, what you call the deliverable, you overwhelm people. Mm hmm. Yeah, especially when like what I call a regular person to know that they have four modules and they have videos and they have workbook.
Stephanie: They’re like, Oh, fuck. I don’t want to go back to school.
Shawn: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. nobody too much. I’m
Stephanie: already busy. I’m I have a problem with time. Do I really want four module and 25 page workbook?
Shawn: Yeah, nobody wants Of course, nobody wants a coaching program. Nobody wants a coaching package. They want what’s going to come of that.
Shawn: And so if you said here, I can give you this coaching package, that’s eight weeks long, or I can give you this magic pill. Both will do the same thing. Which one do you want? They’re going to take the magic pill, right? So your job is to make it seem like that coaching package is a magic pill. It’s easy, it works, it’s this, it’s that, it’s fun, you’re gonna get so much out of it to the point where they’re like, cool, I’m in, where’s the button?
Stephanie: Amazing. And it will make people feel light, feel like they’re getting a ton of value coming in and working with you instead of being hesitant and overwhelmed from the Get go.
Shawn: Yeah, it’s not. It’s like a lot of times there’s this list of all these things you get, and it’s like a 500 value, 1, 000 value, all this stuff, like really making it very appealing, but that’s not where the value is. Nobody cares if your five coaching sessions are 1, 000 in value. They care about you. And really you should have already created this feeling of value ahead of time in how you talk about. Where they’re at, how they’re experiencing things right now, where they want to be, where they’re going to go, and the process that they’ll take to get them there, you know, like how you’ll be there for them and that kind of thing.
Shawn: Is
Stephanie: it possible that we do this because we don’t know how to describe the
Shawn: value? Yes, I think it’s. Honestly, talking about the deliverables is like the easy thing. It’s okay, I know I just created this program. I know there’s four modules. I can say that. And that is something that can fill this space on this page.
Shawn: But what I think is happening is kind of reversing to what we were talking about earlier, that messaging piece that comes before the copywriting. No one’s doing that. You’re not taking the time to do that. And so when it comes time to fill this whole page, let’s say a sales page with, words, you’re like, I don’t know what to say.
Shawn: I have no idea what to say. So I’m just going to say what I know, which is this has four modules. But if you actually do that messaging work before, then you have a ton, like basically, you know, I have a whole work at workbook. That’s a messaging workbook. And it basically just creates your whole sales page for you.
Shawn: Like, all you’re doing is transferring it over because Cocky pace and cocky pace. Yeah, because you’ve created this scenario already. You did it in this, non sales page environment, which feels a lot less, intimidating, if you’re just kind of working through some questions. But then you then have Basically your sales page created because you’ve gone through the process of figuring out where they’re at and what they need to hear in their language, figuring out where they want to be, what their dream resolution is in their language.
Shawn: And that is the whole, essentially the whole like path of your sales page. And then we get to the deliverables. So I really think it’s yes, it’s an easier option simply because you haven’t gone through the entire process and we’re not. You know, I say this all the time. We’re coaches. We’re not marketers. We’re not salesmen, you know, salespeople. So it doesn’t necessarily come naturally. It’s something you have to learn. It’s something you have to kind of, do the work to figure out. Like coaching comes very easily for a lot of people in our worlds. Marketing, not so much.
Stephanie: You got to build the skills.
Stephanie: Yes. There’s so many amazing coaches that do not have a full time business coaching because they have not built the skill set of copywriting and selling and messaging.
Shawn: bazillion percent. That’s so many coaches because like I said, coaching, cool, could do that all day. Getting people to want my coaching. I don’t know how.
Stephanie: Yeah, because we don’t have the skill set that needs to be built over practice and practice and practice.
Shawn: Yes. And we can both attest to this after years and years and years of doing it. It just takes practice. It’s not, you’re not immediately great at it from the beginning. You just keep going. You keep doing it. You figure out what works, what doesn’t. And go from there and you just can’t give up on it.
Stephanie: Okay, cool. What is the next thing we need to avoid? The next mistake to avoid?
Shawn: Yeah, I think, this one is, has a little nuance to it. But it is really important to talk about. And I think this, again, comes from not knowing any different. And that is talking about yourself too much. So your copy is not about you at all. There’s nothing in it about you now. Yes. This is where the nuance comes in. Yes. You have an about page on your website. You have to talk about yourself. You have to share your story, but even the about page on your website is not about you.
Shawn: It’s about you as it relates to them. same thing with you know, there’s a little about sections on your sales page or on your landing pages. Yes, there is a section where. You talk about yourself, but again, as it relates to them, why do they care about you? Why should they care about you? It’s not like this big, huge spiel to talk about your accolades and your education and everything you’ve done and list all these things out.
Shawn: It’s not a resume. It’s a place for them to connect with you. So I think, really the biggest and best thing and easiest thing you can do here is start looking at. What you have written potentially in your business, like from website to social media captions, everything. And see how many times you say I or me and see if you can just switch that sentence a little bit, take out the I and me, and make it more about them like it’s their thing.
Shawn: This is what they can do. So like it’s simple things like I’m so excited to share this thing that I created for you after all my years of experience. This is what I now have for you. There’s a lot of, I in there, like I created this thing. I’m so excited. So instead of that, you know, what can you do to just excitedly share this thing for them, make it about them. So that’s one of the kind of, like I said, I think it just comes from not knowing any better. It’s you don’t really know what else to say. So you’re going to naturally speak to how you’re feeling and what you’ve done and, how it affects them. We want to just keep it towards them. All about them.
Stephanie: I was reviewing a sales page in a coaching call recently. And the formatting of the sales page was like the name of the program and the visual. And then the story of the, of in this case was a practitioner, was a social worker, like her story for seven paragraph.
Shawn: Yes. Is that bad?
Stephanie: Okay. That’s not what I told her. I’m like, did I coach her right? I’m like, doesn’t feel right. this is not about you. It’s about them. they should have the answer to their question when they land on your page. They don’t want to know about you. Right.
Shawn: They want to know about you, but later. Yes. They want again, they want to know about you, but only in this Way of like, why are you the person to help me? Why should I care? You know, that kind of thing, but still keeping it in their realm. Like why? This matters to them. Your story is great. I think there is a ton of space within like your emails and even in your about page and things like that to share your story and people do love a good story. They do like to know more about you, but it has to be again going back to that world where it intentional.
Shawn: And, in the right time, in the right place, and again, bringing it back to why they should care. Right? So still making it about them at the end. So always a good practice. That would be a great opportunity to be like, Hey, let’s look at how many times in this seven paragraphs you’ve said I and me and my.
Shawn: And you’ll see it’s like a lot if it’s all about their story. And so then you can start seeing okay, how can I Either incorporate this story and make it about them, or how can I create another scenario that’s focused on them and their story, and then use my story down below when it’s more appropriate in the about section,
Stephanie: what I find, and this is where, I don’t do copywriting coaching. Obviously, that’s not my thing. I have some high level knowledge. But what I find from a mindset perspective is that the level of confidence of the coach will be expressed through how the copy is written. So if the level of confidence of the coach is Low or quite not there yet, then that’s when the story about them trying to prove themselves with their copy.
Stephanie: Do you see the same thing?
Shawn: Yes. A hundred percent. And that’s also where that practitioner speak comes in too, because it’s I have to prove that I know what I’m talking about. I have to prove that I have this education and this experience and I can help. And that just completely goes over your people’s head. They do not care about that
Stephanie: because what I say when I see that I’m like you’re making the copy. To fulfill your needs, which is to prove yourself instead of fulfilling the people who are going to read it needs, which is this is the problem. This is the solution. This is how I can help you. You’re making yourself more important than your future client.
Shawn: Yeah, right. And they can feel that, you know, you can absolutely feel that when you see that. And you can also feel someone’s lack of confidence. Just through their words, even if you’re trying to prove it that you feel that, you know, every of course, getting into the side of things, every word has an energetic expression. So. You can sense the energy of you through your copywriting, right? So if you truly are confident, like you’ll be able to tell, even as you start interacting and start kind of noticing other people’s copy, which I do always recommend, like now that you’re in tune with how important copy is in your business, start looking at other people’s copy and you’ll be able to tell how you can feel the energy of the person through their copy.
Stephanie: Totally. I was reviewing social media of a person recently, and all I could feel was anger, anger, anger, anger, because it was like, I’m right, they’re wrong. And in the case of diet culture, and I see that a lot, I’m right, diet culture is wrong. And it’s the tone use made me feel like, I don’t want to read anymore, because it’s just anger everywhere.
Shawn: Yes, absolutely. I mean, that’s just infused in every word that you say or write, you know, it’s just infused the energy.
Stephanie: Amazing. Okay. So we’ve got three mistakes that we can avoid. Do you have any tips on things? We should focus on when we write copy. I know you do have a, an amazing offer and please explain to people like how they can get more training from you.
Stephanie: But what would be a couple tips you have for people?
Shawn: I think going back again to what I said, but, talking about a little more. In just writing how you speak, like keeping it very casual and something that people actually want to read, think about how you talk, like the certain words you say a lot when you’re talking or how you speak or different nuances and things that you do and see if you can infuse that into your writing and really your personality to like, don’t forget about your personality.
Shawn: it’s so fun to read people’s. Even if it’s an email that ends up selling me something, if it has personality, I’m reading it. You know, instead of it just being this like kind of boring, like thing that, Oh God, they’re selling something now, you know, we don’t, no one wants that. So how can you infuse your personality and who you are and your energy, your vibe, of course, all of that stuff.
Shawn: But, really. Keeping it casual and fun and easy to read. we don’t have to go by any of the traditional, things that you may have learned. Like I said, just really see, and you’ll see this, in the stuff that I write. The emails and stuff that I write, every sentence is like a different line. And I’m really breaking things up and making things easy to read. Some of them aren’t even full sentences. But it keeps it flowing. It keeps it easy to read. And it’s just my vibe. so, that’s something to look at and go, that goes to another tip. And like I said, is to really look at other people’s copy and see what you’re drawn to and what you want to read.
Shawn: I mean, I do this for everything in my business and always have, it’s like. What kind of work are you drawn to what are they doing that you could do to in your own way and kind of making your at your own just really focus on that and you’ll notice now that I pointed it out, you’ll be able to notice who’s using practitioner speak.
Shawn: Versus who’s just talking like they’re talking to another human and you’ll be able to point that out. So just start noticing, start seeing how you can maybe change some things, start kind of auditing your own copy, anything that you do have written for your business. And, see where you can make some tweaks and see where you can maybe have things flow a little more, create more personality, take out those eyes and knees and make it more about them.
Shawn: Take people on a journey. You know, this is really your time to, express yourself and to really connect. Like it’s all about connection. And when we do that, we don’t have to worry about being salesy. We don’t have to worry about being like annoying or anything like that. When it comes time to sell our stuff, because we’re just creating a connection and we’ve been doing that forever.
Shawn: Yes, that’s all it is. Human to human. And the more humanness you can create for your people, the more likely they will to purchase.
Stephanie: So find somebody who’s listening to all of this Oh my God, yes, like they’re speaking in my term. the next place where people go is this is going to take forever.
Shawn: You, you would think that, except you will be surprised at how easy it is once you really tap in. And like I said, do that messaging work first, because even if you’re not, you don’t consider yourself a good writer, you don’t find writing easy, as soon as you understand, oh, all I’m doing is just, Like having this heart to heart with my client right now in everything I write, you’ll be amazed at how much easier it is to write this than it has been to try to write something for your business up until now.
Shawn: Try to follow rules. Yes, exactly. When you can just let those rules go and just be a normal person talking to another person.
Stephanie: So do you have a tool, you have a free masterclass that can take people to the next step after this conversation and start practicing some of this copywriting?
Shawn: Yes, I think the best and easiest place to start that almost also has the best bang for your buck in your business is on your website. So I think because once you’ve really developed good copy on your website, that translates into everything into your social media posts, your emails, your sales pages, everything.
Shawn: So really starting with your website is the best place. To get, a good grip on your message, your copy, and then, let that translate. So I have a free masterclass going on right now. Seanminor. com slash web class is the place to go. And, it really shows you the three strategies to use on your website to transform it from like potentially boring, blah, basic into something that people actually want to read, want to stick around.
Shawn: It creates connection. And it gets people to want to take the next step with you, want to learn more from you, want to, you know, become a paying client. How cool would that be? Your website has so much power in your business. If done well, you know, it can really be this place where no one goes, no one cares, not getting any traffic or doing anything for your business.
Shawn: Or simply by changing the words you use can be this place that really creates connection and trust with your community. And can create sales in your business. So, three strategies. Totally free to learn them. I teach them all there and, you can get started with your website.
Stephanie: And I love that you’re going to the website first, because here’s what I see.
Stephanie: I see people spending a lot of money on photoshoot, trying to offset the lack of clarity because their website is not converting. And we are overspending on visual, instead of spending the time to craft. A message that will make the visual a lot less important. Not to say that a good professional photo is not important, but you don’t need to spend thousands of dollars on a photo shoot if you have good wording.
Shawn: Yeah, well, and if you do spend thousands on a photo shoot, it’s going to be all for nothing when you don’t have the copy. it’s not going to matter. And like I say with the website, because so many people, when they think about their website, they’re like, Oh, I have to go get this beautiful template and these photos and all this stuff.
Shawn: Yes, and branding in this amazing logo and like sure that stuff all is good, but, you know, having a good looking website will potentially get someone’s attention, but good copy keeps their attention. I mean, how many websites, social media posts, again, like literally out of thin air was to talk to you to get all this stuff.
Shawn: but yeah, no, it’s true. It’s it. How many websites do you click off of as soon as you’re like, wait, what is even going on? yeah, this is got my attention. Like it looks cool, but they have no idea what they’re talking about, or this has no flow, or I don’t even know what they do. But then, same goes for being on a website that has good copy, that keeps your attention, that wants, you know, you want to keep reading, you want to go to their about page, you want to see what services they offer.
Shawn: That’s what your website can do with the right words.
Stephanie: Amazing. Okay. The link for your, masterclass, the web class is in the show notes as well. This has been Brilliant. So much value and resources for people like just to get started with the podcast and then take the free classes and then move on to the next step. But I think this is what’s missing in once you’ve gone through the basic, like you’ve gone through the basic, like of knowing what you do and being good at what you do. That’s the next step to convert more client.
Shawn: Yeah, being able to put what you do into words that people get.
Shawn: Yes, that people connect to.
Shawn: Yep. Exactly.
Shawn: Thank you, Sean.
Shawn: Thank you for having me. It’s so fun. I always love being here. I think it’s been a couple of times now, but, yeah, this has been great. Thank you.
