THE FEMINIST WELL-BEING PODCAST

It’s Beyond the Food Podcast

Join well-being expert Stephanie Dodier as she guides on how to feel damn good by reshaping your mind instead of your body. Let’s go beyond the food and fight diet culture & patriarchy by living powerfully. Through solo episodes and special guest interviews, you’ll walk away with ressources to embrace your well-being & health in a way that will expand your freedom and power. 

Subscribe to our podcast on your favorite podcast platform.

THE WELL-BEING FEMINIST PODCAST

It’s Beyond the Food Podcast

Join well-being expert Stephanie Dodier as she guides on how to feel damn good by reshaping your mind instead of your body. Let’s go beyond the food and fight diet culture & patriarchy by living powerfully. Through solo episodes and special guest interviews, you’ll walk away with ressources to embrace your well-being & health in a way that will expand your freedom and power. 

Subscribe to our podcast on your favorite podcast platform.

Our Most Recent Episodes

371-The Safety of Conformity

371-The Safety of Conformity

The Safety of Conformity

Being different in a world that thrives on conformity can be hard and cause a lot of suffering.

Have you ever thought:  “but I felt much more confident when my body was smaller!”

When confidence is shaken by the size of your body, it’s not confidence you were experiencing: it was the safety of compliance. 

You felt safe because you had the thought you were protected from your fear of judgment and rejection.

The Safety of Conformity

When you seek conformity instead of accepting yourself and your difference from the “norm” you consistently:

  • watch and monitor your conformity
  • always wonder, “Am I enough?”
  • work harder to meet the norm
  • your happiness and life enjoyment is dependent on what others think of you.
  • Feel constantly anxious… fear of losing acceptance because of missing out on conformity.

What you’ll learn listening to this episode on the Safety of Conformity:

  • What is the safety of conformity
  • Why we do not seek to conform in all parts of our life
  • The anti-dote to safety of conformity

Mentioned in the show: 

Undiet Your Life Program

Non-Diet Coaching Certification

Transcript

Going Beyond The Food Show Episode 371-The Safety of Conformity

===

This is episode 371 of the Beyond the Food Show, and today we wanna talk about being different and why it is difficult for many of us to be different, and I’m gonna teach you about that through a concept that I created recently that is called the Safety of Conformity. So if you’re different, you gotta want to stay and listen to this whole podcast. Stay tuned.

Hey, my sisters welcome back to the podcast. We’re gonna talk about being different today, now being different. Is wide open, being different from your body size, being different in your looks, being different in your ability, being different in your skin color, being different in any possible way. So few. Think of yourself as someone different, and you are. Struggling with being different. You definitely want to stay tuned. I am going to explain to you why it is difficult in our current society to be different. And I’m going to introduce the topic by giving you an example that many of us share as a common experience in this community of going beyond the food.

Have you ever said, but I felt so much more confident when my body was smaller. I said that probably dozens of time, and I heard it hundreds of time from my client. Here’s the thing, what we felt back in the days when we said what, I felt so much more confident when I was smaller, when my body was smaller, what we felt wasn’t confidence. It was the safety of conformity. We felt safe, not confident, and we confuse the both. We confused safety and confidence, and when I say we felt safe, we felt safe because we had the thought that we were protected from fear and judgment and rejection. When we were smaller, so for sure living in a society that is focused on the thin ideal, a society that is fat phobic when you are in a larger body that doesn’t fit the thin ideal. there is a risk for you to be judged and criticized and even rejected, so you feel unsafe, and that’s what being different feels in today’s society. It feels unsafe. It’s not intrinsically bad to be different. It is for sure uncertain, unsafe, risky because you are exposing yourself voluntarily or not depending on the type of difference you are to criticism, judgment, and even rejection.

And I wanna say that. Women, people self-identified as women are uniquely affected by being different because women are socialized that are intrinsic value. Our intrinsic worth is coming from other people’s opinion of us. We are told directly or indirectly that in order for us to be valuable, to be good girls, good women, we need to meet other people’s expectations.

We are socialized to comply. With our body size to comply with our look. I’m 47 and I see the message all the time that I should be putting anti-aging stuff on my face and I should be covering my white hair, right? That. For me to please the world, I need to hide any type of aging sign, because we are socialized as women to comply to young, beautiful, and thin.

And it goes beyond the body and the age. As women, we are socialized to comply way back when we were in school with our grades. Right. We have to have good grades. We have to be good student and not disturb the class, and even, I’ll go back to my corporate days. For all of you who work in the corporate world, we are socialized as women in a work environment to not make any noise.

Not disturb the room, don’t say things that people don’t wanna hear. Right. We are socialized to comply to whatever standard are set for women in the particular environment. and I wanna be clear, like I’m talking to women and this shows about women, but men on the other hand are also socialized.

They’re just socialized to. Other standard and other, ideology. For an example, a man is socialized to provide, to self-actualize, to hide their emotion. Now, there’s a ton of coaches that coach men that have that conversation for men. So don’t think that socialization to compliance is only a. Woman thing.

is both a men and a woman thing, but just socialize to different standards. What’s different for us is that we are socialized to comply to the standards where men are not socialized to comply. They’re socialized to be who they are meant to be. So for us, it’s an extra layer that we need to. Build in ourselves when we are different to seek our own validation instead of the validation from the external. And that’s the work of body image, right? If I was to. Simplify the work of body image. It’s about building your own authority, your own autonomy, so you’re no longer looking outside of you for confirmation that your body is right, but you are giving that to yourself.

So it’s not easy for women to be different than what everybody around us. Thinks we should be to be different from the social norm. Now, in some aspect of our being different,

it’s actually sometimes things that we’re proud of. For an example, for me being different. And labeling myself and being labeled as a feminist doesn’t cause me any suffering because it’s not something when people label me as a feminist that makes me feel that something is wrong with me. It’s actually something that I’m proud of.

But on the other hand, for almost 30 years, when you talk to me about my weight and being different than the social norm around the size of my body, that caused me a lot of suffering. Why is that? We only see conforming. When we think being different means something is bad about us, that we are less than.

Because of that difference, we are less valuable. We are less virtuous because of that difference.

Now this is helpful for us to understand that. Not every bits that are different about us are causing us the same level of suffering, because when we can examine our thoughts and our belief about the things that we don’t give a shit, we’re actually proud to be different. Like me being a feminist. And what I think about feminism versus the thoughts and the belief that I have about my body weight and the size of my body, the reason why the different being different in my size and my body was causing me so much suffering is because.

Of the thoughts and the belief that I had around my weight and my size, what I chose to believe about body weight and body size is what triggered the suffering. So for an example, we’ll go back to feminism. My, my thoughts about being a feminist are actually. This is something really cool. This is something to be proud of.

This is something that makes a difference in the world. That is being a feminist helps other women claim their power in a world that disempower them. Feminism helps women move forward. These are thoughts that have been thinking and believing about feminism. Since I’m 15, 16 years old, since I started into the world and being aware of feminism, I’ve always had these belief and these thoughts, and in part it’s because in my family, in my social structure, I was surrounded by women that were. Strong in their power that were themselves proud to be feminists. So being a feminist in my world, in my environment was something cool. But my socialization, I. To body and weights as a woman was completely different. The same women that were strong and independent and. In the eighties was still something special.

They were all working and earning money, right? You guys, this is in the eighties. That’s like 40 years ago. Like you gotta think about that. That was like the edge all women earning money, like this is just 40 years ago. It’s amazing every time I think about that. But anyway, when. The same group of women, my family, my friends, and my surrounding had a completely different kind of thoughts and belief around body weight because they were all on a diet.

They were all trying to be smaller in shrinking their body. In fact, my second diet in my life when I was 15, I did it with all of my aunts and my cousin. We were a group of 20 women all dieting together. So because of my thoughts of being shameful and it meaning that I’m not trying hard enough, that I’m lazy, then being different than the ideal of thinness caused me a lot of suffering because I knew what people thought and people said about fat people.

I didn’t want people to think these same thoughts about me, so I myself thought that being fat was the worst thing that could ever happen. So for sure when I was in a larger body, when I wasn’t thin, I. I felt completely this empowered. I didn’t feel safe. I felt insecure. I felt doubtful. I felt I gotta fix this.

Oh my God, my life is terrible, and so on and so forth. Because when you comply, when you are in a smaller body, when you are able of all your limbs, when you are white in a white supremacist society, when you are. Like when you fit the ideal, you don’t have to worry about criticism, about judgment. You don’t have to deal with it.

You don’t even have to worry about it, let alone deal with it. Conforming doesn’t require very much of someone. However, now let me just precise before I go to the next step. It doesn’t require very much. From an emotional standpoint, it actually doesn’t require you to feel unsafe, uncertain, have to change your thoughts and your belief, like when you conform.

Yeah, when you think about the body, yeah, it does require effort for you to shrink your body and maintain yourself on a diet and shrinking your body, but emotionally it’s easy. On the other hand, living in a larger body in a different body does require a lot more of emotional and mental efforting in order for you to relieve yourself from the suffering.

But when you’re conforming, what it does is it makes your emotion dependent of others. I’ll come back to my example at the very top of the episode when I said, right, but I felt so much more confident when my body was smaller. That confident feeling is dependent on the size of your body, and when you lose that size of the body, then that confidence washes away.

So as soon as you’re not able to meet the conformity anymore, then the feeling of safety and happiness washes away. In a way, you could say that your experience of your life is not in your own control, and that is so true when it comes to body size. That the way you experience life, right? If you are having a happy life or an unhappy life, is not really in your control because it depends on the size of your body.

And as many of you know, listening to this podcast, we think we can control the size of our body, but we can but think about. People who are neurodivergent, people whose brain. Thinks in a way that doesn’t conform with the linear way that people expect brains to think, right? They’re thinking differently.

It’s completely out of their control. They’re born with these neural pathway wired the way they are, and people like me that are conforming in the way we think. I’m a very linear thinker. It’s not in my control.

Like, I’m just born this way. So the way we experience life when we try to fit in conformity and we live with thoughts and belief that conformity is the solution, it’s the place to be, and it’s the safety to avoid being different. The experience of our life is not in our control. So we can almost say that the conformity, seeking conformity and the feeling of confidence, the fake confidence we get, which is really the safety of conformity, is almost an illusion because we can’t control it in most cases. And if we think we can, it’s just an illusion. The safety of a conformity in a way. I like to think of it as an illusion. Because what is the standard today that we all seek to hamme? Again, we’ll take the analogy of the body size. We’ll change tomorrow. I guarantee you the standard of the body today will be different in 25 years from now.

What is the expectation today? May not be there tomorrow. So it’s elusive. You are not in control because the elusive happiness, confidence you feel when you are working so hard to conform to the standard. If the goalposts change that happiness and that confidence again washes away. So here’s my proposition to you today.

Instead of seeking to conform and have this elusive safety and confidence. What if you decided of your own standard in your life? What if you chose. What you want to become and what you want to measure yourself against. Now, when I propose that to my client, there’s typically a blank space there because as women socialize, do not divert from the standard and from what other people want from us. Having to create our own standard is not something that we are familiar with, something that we have experienced and something that we even have skills for. And the predominant skill that is required for you to create your own standard is self authority. Self authorization. This ability to decide for yourself, to authorize yourself to think what the hell you want.

It’s a skill. And I have a podcast on the feed that’s titled Self Authorization, so I would encourage you to scroll on the feed and find it, I’m gonna give you a few. On the side notes, iTune, if you’re listening to this on iTune, a number of months ago, iTune decided to remove the podcast number episode in front of the title.

So I used to be able to tell you, scroll up to podcast number 249, and then you would easily find it and be able to listen to it. I can’t do that anymore because they remove. Unilaterally the number in front of the podcast episode, so you’re gonna have to scroll through the feed and find the podcast title, self authorization.

And let me just tell you, I. That it’s a skillset is you have to build the ability to be the own authority in your life, and that’s gonna be the byproduct of a lot of discomfort. So for an example, I’ll come back to body size because that’s one of our common area. In order for you to be at peace with your body in a.

We’ll say in a bigger body, in a fatter body, in a plus size body, you are gonna have to decide to believe all bodies are good bodies. And that is not the traditional way that society thinks about bodies. That’s not how you were socialized years ago. Hence why you’re struggling with your body image today.

So you’re gonna have to go through the process. Of rewiring your brain, training your brain. To believe that all bodies are good bodies, or my favorite one when it comes to body neutrality, I have a body to experience life, not to be a sign of my worth. That’s what we call mindset work. That’s why. All of my programs start with mindset work, because I know the endpoint, I know the struggle, right?

I’ve been doing this long enough that I now know I have to give you the mindset tool first. So when you walk into. Making peace with your body or with food. You know how to change the belief to become the your own authority in your life, in order for you to stop the suffering and be at peace with being different, to be able to accept yourself in order for you.

To no longer seek the safety of conformity, the illusion of happiness and confidence because you’re conforming to the standard in the particular environment you’re in. The work that needs to done is accepting what is right now while still moving forward and still working on creating a better life. And building the skillset to be your own authority in your life, so you no longer seek outside opinion, outside standard.

You create your own standard and you seek to meet yourself in the way you want to live. And be example in your body or who you wanna be in your work. Do you wanna be the voice of difference? You want to be the voice of change? Or do you wanna be the voice of conformity? Right? This is from the corporate role, but I could do the same analogy when it comes to body image.

I wanted to talk to you about that because I use this analogy more and more, you’ll hear me use the term, the safety of conformity more and more, and for those of you who have been long time listener, I’ve been talking about that for a couple of years now, and I’m receiving a lot of question about it and what it means.

So I wanted to put this on the feed. So you have something to refer to when I talk about the safety of conformity. But most important, I want you to take some time today, tomorrow, and days to come to think about how much you seek to conform, how much of. The struggle, the discomfort, the despair,

the suffering you are experiencing is caused by you seeking to conform to something you were never meant to be. You’re trying to twist and bend yourself to meet someone else’s standards and someone else’s expectation. When you are meant to be this other way, you are meant to be different. And that was my life for 30 years with my body.

I was meant. To take space, to be big, to be tall, to be present, to be fat. That’s what I was meant to be. It started at 12 when I grew almost a foot in a year, and I started to have a belly, and I started to have broad shoulder. That’s who I was meant to be my whole life. But instead of accepting that, And making that who I was for the next 25 years.

And from 13 to 39 40 years old, I tried to end myself into conforming to the thin ideal,

and that caused me a ton. Suffering that I could have avoided would I had just accepted that I was meant to be different. Now I was 12 and 13 years old. I didn’t have the mental awareness and capacity to do that, but today I am. Today I don’t try to fix myself anymore. I accept who I am and my differences and my.

Quirks and I’m proud of them. I’m proud of my accent. I’m proud of the fact that I don’t speak English like everyone else. I don’t formulate sentence like everyone else. I am not. I’m tall. When I walk into a room, Huck, I move space. Everybody looks at me. It’s just what it is because I’m six foot tall and I’m built like.

A white person, not just in the size of my belly, but the structure of my body. I’ve got wide shoulders and I’ve got big arms. I was meant to be this way. This is who I am, and trying to be anything else’s, It’s not something that I aim for anymore. I have opinions and I share my opinion with the world, and that causes people to be upset with me, and I’m okay with that.

So I’m encouraging you to look in your life where you’re trying to conform, and is it possible that if you, simply with the help of me as your coach, but if you would accept your difference. Claim your authority and be proud of your difference, your life would be a lot better. That’s the work we do in my world. If you wanna do some of this work with me. I’d love to work with you inside of an diet at your life, and I wanna say it’s the same parallel for those of you that are professional. In my professional business where I train professional, I teach coaches and professional to do coaching differently and to do it in a way that’s aligned for them.

So if you’re different and you want to be okay with your difference and make it who you are and be successful with it, I’m here to help you. I Love you, my sister, and I’ll see you on the next podcast episode.

 

 

The Safety of Conformity

This is episode 371 of the Beyond the Food Show, and today we wanna talk about being different and why it is difficult for many of us to be different, and I’m gonna teach you about that through a concept that I created recently that is called the Safety of Conformity. So if you’re different, you gotta want to stay and listen to this whole podcast. Stay tuned.

Hey, my sisters welcome back to the podcast. We’re gonna talk about being different today, now being different. Is wide open, being different from your body size, being different in your looks, being different in your ability, being different in your skin color, being different in any possible way. So few. Think of yourself as someone different, and you are. Struggling with being different. You definitely want to stay tuned. I am going to explain to you why it is difficult in our current society to be different. And I’m going to introduce the topic by giving you an example that many of us share as a common experience in this community of going beyond the food.

Have you ever said, but I felt so much more confident when my body was smaller. I said that probably dozens of time, and I heard it hundreds of time from my client. Here’s the thing, what we felt back in the days when we said what, I felt so much more confident when I was smaller, when my body was smaller, what we felt wasn’t confidence. It was the safety of conformity. We felt safe, not confident, and we confuse the both. We confused safety and confidence, and when I say we felt safe, we felt safe because we had the thought that we were protected from fear and judgment and rejection. When we were smaller, so for sure living in a society that is focused on the thin ideal, a society that is fat phobic when you are in a larger body that doesn’t fit the thin ideal. there is a risk for you to be judged and criticized and even rejected, so you feel unsafe, and that’s what being different feels in today’s society. It feels unsafe. It’s not intrinsically bad to be different. It is for sure uncertain, unsafe, risky because you are exposing yourself voluntarily or not depending on the type of difference you are to criticism, judgment, and even rejection.

And I wanna say that. Women, people self-identified as women are uniquely affected by being different because women are socialized that are intrinsic value. Our intrinsic worth is coming from other people’s opinion of us. We are told directly or indirectly that in order for us to be valuable, to be good girls, good women, we need to meet other people’s expectations.

We are socialized to comply. With our body size to comply with our look. I’m 47 and I see the message all the time that I should be putting anti-aging stuff on my face and I should be covering my white hair, right? That. For me to please the world, I need to hide any type of aging sign, because we are socialized as women to comply to young, beautiful, and thin.

And it goes beyond the body and the age. As women, we are socialized to comply way back when we were in school with our grades. Right. We have to have good grades. We have to be good student and not disturb the class, and even, I’ll go back to my corporate days. For all of you who work in the corporate world, we are socialized as women in a work environment to not make any noise.

Not disturb the room, don’t say things that people don’t wanna hear. Right. We are socialized to comply to whatever standard are set for women in the particular environment. and I wanna be clear, like I’m talking to women and this shows about women, but men on the other hand are also socialized.

They’re just socialized to. Other standard and other, ideology. For an example, a man is socialized to provide, to self-actualize, to hide their emotion. Now, there’s a ton of coaches that coach men that have that conversation for men. So don’t think that socialization to compliance is only a. Woman thing.

is both a men and a woman thing, but just socialize to different standards. What’s different for us is that we are socialized to comply to the standards where men are not socialized to comply. They’re socialized to be who they are meant to be. So for us, it’s an extra layer that we need to. Build in ourselves when we are different to seek our own validation instead of the validation from the external. And that’s the work of body image, right? If I was to. Simplify the work of body image. It’s about building your own authority, your own autonomy, so you’re no longer looking outside of you for confirmation that your body is right, but you are giving that to yourself.

So it’s not easy for women to be different than what everybody around us. Thinks we should be to be different from the social norm. Now, in some aspect of our being different,

it’s actually sometimes things that we’re proud of. For an example, for me being different. And labeling myself and being labeled as a feminist doesn’t cause me any suffering because it’s not something when people label me as a feminist that makes me feel that something is wrong with me. It’s actually something that I’m proud of.

But on the other hand, for almost 30 years, when you talk to me about my weight and being different than the social norm around the size of my body, that caused me a lot of suffering. Why is that? We only see conforming. When we think being different means something is bad about us, that we are less than.

Because of that difference, we are less valuable. We are less virtuous because of that difference.

Now this is helpful for us to understand that. Not every bits that are different about us are causing us the same level of suffering, because when we can examine our thoughts and our belief about the things that we don’t give a shit, we’re actually proud to be different. Like me being a feminist. And what I think about feminism versus the thoughts and the belief that I have about my body weight and the size of my body, the reason why the different being different in my size and my body was causing me so much suffering is because.

Of the thoughts and the belief that I had around my weight and my size, what I chose to believe about body weight and body size is what triggered the suffering. So for an example, we’ll go back to feminism. My, my thoughts about being a feminist are actually. This is something really cool. This is something to be proud of.

This is something that makes a difference in the world. That is being a feminist helps other women claim their power in a world that disempower them. Feminism helps women move forward. These are thoughts that have been thinking and believing about feminism. Since I’m 15, 16 years old, since I started into the world and being aware of feminism, I’ve always had these belief and these thoughts, and in part it’s because in my family, in my social structure, I was surrounded by women that were. Strong in their power that were themselves proud to be feminists. So being a feminist in my world, in my environment was something cool. But my socialization, I. To body and weights as a woman was completely different. The same women that were strong and independent and. In the eighties was still something special.

They were all working and earning money, right? You guys, this is in the eighties. That’s like 40 years ago. Like you gotta think about that. That was like the edge all women earning money, like this is just 40 years ago. It’s amazing every time I think about that. But anyway, when. The same group of women, my family, my friends, and my surrounding had a completely different kind of thoughts and belief around body weight because they were all on a diet.

They were all trying to be smaller in shrinking their body. In fact, my second diet in my life when I was 15, I did it with all of my aunts and my cousin. We were a group of 20 women all dieting together. So because of my thoughts of being shameful and it meaning that I’m not trying hard enough, that I’m lazy, then being different than the ideal of thinness caused me a lot of suffering because I knew what people thought and people said about fat people.

I didn’t want people to think these same thoughts about me, so I myself thought that being fat was the worst thing that could ever happen. So for sure when I was in a larger body, when I wasn’t thin, I. I felt completely this empowered. I didn’t feel safe. I felt insecure. I felt doubtful. I felt I gotta fix this.

Oh my God, my life is terrible, and so on and so forth. Because when you comply, when you are in a smaller body, when you are able of all your limbs, when you are white in a white supremacist society, when you are. Like when you fit the ideal, you don’t have to worry about criticism, about judgment. You don’t have to deal with it.

You don’t even have to worry about it, let alone deal with it. Conforming doesn’t require very much of someone. However, now let me just precise before I go to the next step. It doesn’t require very much. From an emotional standpoint, it actually doesn’t require you to feel unsafe, uncertain, have to change your thoughts and your belief, like when you conform.

Yeah, when you think about the body, yeah, it does require effort for you to shrink your body and maintain yourself on a diet and shrinking your body, but emotionally it’s easy. On the other hand, living in a larger body in a different body does require a lot more of emotional and mental efforting in order for you to relieve yourself from the suffering.

But when you’re conforming, what it does is it makes your emotion dependent of others. I’ll come back to my example at the very top of the episode when I said, right, but I felt so much more confident when my body was smaller. That confident feeling is dependent on the size of your body, and when you lose that size of the body, then that confidence washes away.

So as soon as you’re not able to meet the conformity anymore, then the feeling of safety and happiness washes away. In a way, you could say that your experience of your life is not in your own control, and that is so true when it comes to body size. That the way you experience life, right? If you are having a happy life or an unhappy life, is not really in your control because it depends on the size of your body.

And as many of you know, listening to this podcast, we think we can control the size of our body, but we can but think about. People who are neurodivergent, people whose brain. Thinks in a way that doesn’t conform with the linear way that people expect brains to think, right? They’re thinking differently.

It’s completely out of their control. They’re born with these neural pathway wired the way they are, and people like me that are conforming in the way we think. I’m a very linear thinker. It’s not in my control.

Like, I’m just born this way. So the way we experience life when we try to fit in conformity and we live with thoughts and belief that conformity is the solution, it’s the place to be, and it’s the safety to avoid being different. The experience of our life is not in our control. So we can almost say that the conformity, seeking conformity and the feeling of confidence, the fake confidence we get, which is really the safety of conformity, is almost an illusion because we can’t control it in most cases. And if we think we can, it’s just an illusion. The safety of a conformity in a way. I like to think of it as an illusion. Because what is the standard today that we all seek to hamme? Again, we’ll take the analogy of the body size. We’ll change tomorrow. I guarantee you the standard of the body today will be different in 25 years from now.

What is the expectation today? May not be there tomorrow. So it’s elusive. You are not in control because the elusive happiness, confidence you feel when you are working so hard to conform to the standard. If the goalposts change that happiness and that confidence again washes away. So here’s my proposition to you today.

Instead of seeking to conform and have this elusive safety and confidence. What if you decided of your own standard in your life? What if you chose. What you want to become and what you want to measure yourself against. Now, when I propose that to my client, there’s typically a blank space there because as women socialize, do not divert from the standard and from what other people want from us. Having to create our own standard is not something that we are familiar with, something that we have experienced and something that we even have skills for. And the predominant skill that is required for you to create your own standard is self authority. Self authorization. This ability to decide for yourself, to authorize yourself to think what the hell you want.

It’s a skill. And I have a podcast on the feed that’s titled Self Authorization, so I would encourage you to scroll on the feed and find it, I’m gonna give you a few. On the side notes, iTune, if you’re listening to this on iTune, a number of months ago, iTune decided to remove the podcast number episode in front of the title.

So I used to be able to tell you, scroll up to podcast number 249, and then you would easily find it and be able to listen to it. I can’t do that anymore because they remove. Unilaterally the number in front of the podcast episode, so you’re gonna have to scroll through the feed and find the podcast title, self authorization.

And let me just tell you, I. That it’s a skillset is you have to build the ability to be the own authority in your life, and that’s gonna be the byproduct of a lot of discomfort. So for an example, I’ll come back to body size because that’s one of our common area. In order for you to be at peace with your body in a.

We’ll say in a bigger body, in a fatter body, in a plus size body, you are gonna have to decide to believe all bodies are good bodies. And that is not the traditional way that society thinks about bodies. That’s not how you were socialized years ago. Hence why you’re struggling with your body image today.

So you’re gonna have to go through the process. Of rewiring your brain, training your brain. To believe that all bodies are good bodies, or my favorite one when it comes to body neutrality, I have a body to experience life, not to be a sign of my worth. That’s what we call mindset work. That’s why. All of my programs start with mindset work, because I know the endpoint, I know the struggle, right?

I’ve been doing this long enough that I now know I have to give you the mindset tool first. So when you walk into. Making peace with your body or with food. You know how to change the belief to become the your own authority in your life, in order for you to stop the suffering and be at peace with being different, to be able to accept yourself in order for you.

To no longer seek the safety of conformity, the illusion of happiness and confidence because you’re conforming to the standard in the particular environment you’re in. The work that needs to done is accepting what is right now while still moving forward and still working on creating a better life. And building the skillset to be your own authority in your life, so you no longer seek outside opinion, outside standard.

You create your own standard and you seek to meet yourself in the way you want to live. And be example in your body or who you wanna be in your work. Do you wanna be the voice of difference? You want to be the voice of change? Or do you wanna be the voice of conformity? Right? This is from the corporate role, but I could do the same analogy when it comes to body image.

I wanted to talk to you about that because I use this analogy more and more, you’ll hear me use the term, the safety of conformity more and more, and for those of you who have been long time listener, I’ve been talking about that for a couple of years now, and I’m receiving a lot of question about it and what it means.

So I wanted to put this on the feed. So you have something to refer to when I talk about the safety of conformity. But most important, I want you to take some time today, tomorrow, and days to come to think about how much you seek to conform, how much of. The struggle, the discomfort, the despair,

the suffering you are experiencing is caused by you seeking to conform to something you were never meant to be. You’re trying to twist and bend yourself to meet someone else’s standards and someone else’s expectation. When you are meant to be this other way, you are meant to be different. And that was my life for 30 years with my body.

I was meant. To take space, to be big, to be tall, to be present, to be fat. That’s what I was meant to be. It started at 12 when I grew almost a foot in a year, and I started to have a belly, and I started to have broad shoulder. That’s who I was meant to be my whole life. But instead of accepting that, And making that who I was for the next 25 years.

And from 13 to 39 40 years old, I tried to end myself into conforming to the thin ideal,

and that caused me a ton. Suffering that I could have avoided would I had just accepted that I was meant to be different. Now I was 12 and 13 years old. I didn’t have the mental awareness and capacity to do that, but today I am. Today I don’t try to fix myself anymore. I accept who I am and my differences and my.

Quirks and I’m proud of them. I’m proud of my accent. I’m proud of the fact that I don’t speak English like everyone else. I don’t formulate sentence like everyone else. I am not. I’m tall. When I walk into a room, Huck, I move space. Everybody looks at me. It’s just what it is because I’m six foot tall and I’m built like.

A white person, not just in the size of my belly, but the structure of my body. I’ve got wide shoulders and I’ve got big arms. I was meant to be this way. This is who I am, and trying to be anything else’s, It’s not something that I aim for anymore. I have opinions and I share my opinion with the world, and that causes people to be upset with me, and I’m okay with that.

So I’m encouraging you to look in your life where you’re trying to conform, and is it possible that if you, simply with the help of me as your coach, but if you would accept your difference. Claim your authority and be proud of your difference, your life would be a lot better. That’s the work we do in my world. If you wanna do some of this work with me. I’d love to work with you inside of an diet at your life, and I wanna say it’s the same parallel for those of you that are professional. In my professional business where I train professional, I teach coaches and professional to do coaching differently and to do it in a way that’s aligned for them.

So if you’re different and you want to be okay with your difference and make it who you are and be successful with it, I’m here to help you. I Love you, my sister, and I’ll see you on the next podcast episode.

 

read more
370-Self-Love & Hypnotherapy with Kim Basler

370-Self-Love & Hypnotherapy with Kim Basler

Hypnotherapy & Self-Love

Hypnotherapy & Self-Love

This is a conversation that has been building for years between me and Kim Basler. We’ve been internet friends for years but had yet to spend time in 1-1 conversation.

Kim has a long history of dieting and decades as a fitness professional where her body was her “business card”. Today on the other side she shares her journey and how we be in love for our body!

What you’ll learn listening to this episode on Hypnotherapy & Self-Love:

  • How identities play into cycle of self-destructive behaviors
  • What is hypnosis 
  • How to best use hypnosis and NLP for food and body image
  • Loving our bodies versus loving on our body

Mentioned in the show: 

Undiet Your Life Program

Non-Diet Coaching Certification

Kim’s Guided Self-Hypnosis

14-Day Free Trial inside Kim’s Empowered Movement Community

Connect with our guest:

Website – Kim Basler

Instagram – Kim Basler

Facebook – Kim Basler

Transcript

GOING BEYOND THE FOOD SHOW

EPISODE 370-Self-Love & Hypnotherapy with Kim Basler

===

Welcome to the podcast, Kim. Hi, Stephanie. So happy to be here with you. Years in the making. Literally years in the making. It’s pretty amazing. We’ve known each other for years and we’ve been talking back and forth about having this conversation on the podcast and talking about what you do and it’s happening today.

So I’m very excited about that. Very excited. for you to talk about your journey as a woman through fitness and where you are now and how you’re helping people. And we’re going to talk about hypnosis, which is an area that I do not have any or very little knowledge on. So get ready for an amazing conversation.

So tell us your story. How did you came to be in the non diet space and helping women there? Yeah, thank you for this question. I mean, like you big long stories, right? So we decide what we want to share. Um, I grew up very much in a home environment where there was a lot of dieting, started dieting at 12 years old, similar to you and, you know, you kind of go into an environment and in a culture and a living lived experience that everyone’s doing around you.

And it sort of becomes your norm. Unfortunately, we know what can happen. And the dieting took me into a high school where I was really fixated on trying to make my body smaller like so many women are and that led me into an eating disorder. And then I went into the fitness industry, you know, I started I joined a gym at 14 as we’re told.

Exercise more, you can get your body smaller. And I went right into, I mean, this is back in the 1990s. So I, I was in all of this space. I didn’t know that I was not In a good space, you know, you just kind of are doing what you’re doing. And then I went into the industry, fitness industry, and I was working in that space for a really, really long time and juggling all the balls and being a mother and exercising way more than one should and just really fixated on the scale.

That was my was my daily thing that I did every morning when I woke up. And it was going, I’ll say, well, in quotations, um, until it wasn’t, until my body started to tell me that I couldn’t live like this anymore, my signs of my body telling me, you know, we ignore, we ignore what we feel, we push our bodies, many of us, and that’s what I did until my body started to tell me that I was not doing well.

And it started out with, um, body hives. I had, I was full of body hives and those body hives were being treated every single day with Allergy medication, which is what I was just told to do, and then it went into chest pains, chest palpitations, chest pains, and, you know, when you’re trying to juggle all of the things that you believe you have to do and how you’re supposed to look as a woman, it’s going to start to impact the other parts of your life, and it then started to impact my marriage, and I just felt like I couldn’t do all I couldn’t do it all anymore.

I was literally, I don’t like to, I used to call it a breakdown, a mental breakdown. I don’t call it that anymore, but I, and I’m just going to give a little, a little warning here. Cause I come into some sensitive conversation. Now I was, my brain was trying to show me ways out. You know, I couldn’t, I couldn’t keep up the pace anymore.

I was falling apart. I wasn’t sleeping anymore. I was unhappy, but I didn’t know how to get out because it was the identity that I’d known myself to be for my entire life. And I felt like a failure. I felt like it was all my fault. And then in 2016, I wish I could say that I was strong enough to say I need help, but that’s not what happened.

I, uh, you’re nodding your head. You get it. Um, I had, you know, whether you believe in God, but there was something higher than me that came in. And I literally did fall to my knees in a, in a In just the tsunami of tears that just would not stop and I had to get out and I just said, you know, I don’t know what this is going to look like.

I want to go on a medical leave, but that’s where it started for me. And I recognized that as, as I left the industry of fitness and spent a lot of long days by myself trying to figure out who I am and trying to recognize, like, what’s left because I can’t do this anymore. And that’s where it started for me.

And I learned very quickly that I had been dieting my entire life and how much that had impacted my joy, my happiness, my ability to love me for who I am and my healing journey began. So that’s a little bit of a snapshot. Thank you for sharing that and there’s two things that stand out for me, and I’m sure you can talk about that, but it’s the word identity Because as a fitness professional for decades, I think For me it was the corporate world with making a lot of money, right?

Your identity is Rewarded by society as a healthy person, a person who makes a lot of money and runs big business. Our identity is acknowledged, rewarded, positioned by society. Talk to me a little bit about that from a fitness perspective. Because you’re supposed to be in the most healthy environment, right?

Yeah, that’s exactly right. You know, so many of us and I say us, anybody that works in the field, we’re recognizing that this push this chase this idealistic look of how we’re supposed to be, it’s exhausting, and it’s burning us out and it’s making us sick. And yeah, I was caught up in it and I look, I look back like as even from a child, I struggled with who I was, like my self worth was right from a childhood.

Age so I openly talk about how I sought the validation. My ego needed the validation. And so the thinner I got. The more praise I got and you know, when I became a mother and everyone saw everything that I was doing, I was also praised for that. I don’t know how you do it all. Tell me how you do it all.

You look so great. And so even though I was falling apart and I knew that I wasn’t able to keep this up. We put on the mask, right? Like how many times would I walk into the gym and I’d have to put the mask on. I had 40, 50 people in front of me that were there wanting me to smile as I always did Stephanie, but I was tired and burnt out.

So, yeah, it was the only thing I knew. It was the only thing I believed I was good at. And I was good at it. I became instructor of the year for all of Canada for the company I worked for. So I was good at what I was doing. But it wasn’t coming from the foundation of love. It was coming from a foundation of, you know, this is what controls my body size.

Yes. I have fun teaching, but the, the root of it was coming from the calorie burning and the thinness and the validation. Yeah. And we, because we’re rewarded for this identity, it’s hard to come out of it. Yeah. And I don’t even think I knew that at the time. Like, I didn’t know that at the time that that’s what I was, what, that’s what I was doing.

That comes from all of the work of the healing. Right. Um, but yeah, but you met the resistance, like it was hard. So I want people to hear your story. It may not know it’s their identity, but the resistance. The feeling of stuckness you’re in, perhaps it’s a story similar to us in a different identity. Yeah, and it’s the behaviors and it’s the ways we live every day that become that person that we know ourselves to be.

Right? And it’s those behaviors and that way of being. That is, I’m gonna call it a drug. It’s the, it’s the, it’s the drive. It’s the addiction. It’s the, ooh, that steel that you get from that. Right? Yeah. So, beautiful story. And today, 180 in another place. Now you help women. That are going through this journey themselves.

Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Yeah, it’s beautiful and it’s um, it’s come about in the most wonderful way. You know, when I think back to the first few clients that I worked with, right, we brought the clients that help us. Right. And it’s been wonderful. And it’s, it’s been a space where I’ve been able to help them gain the clarity that they wanted for their lives.

I’m not here to tell them what their self love or their self worth should look like, but I am here to help them recognize that what you’re doing isn’t working for you. So let’s just recognize that and then seek out what will feel good. Right. And being a space for them. So yeah, I’ve worked one on one with a lot of clients.

We did it. I’ve done a lot of one on one coaching as many of us do. And, and then now I’ve got my beautiful communities that I serve in and I support. And I love that so much because as much as it’s about healing the relationship with food and learning how to accept our bodies, it’s also then all of the other pieces, the courage, the confidence, the things that we’re allowing ourselves to do now that we weren’t allowing ourselves to do before.

And that’s really what excites me too, because when we can step away from all of the rules and the conditions of what we’re supposed to be as women, we then see a bigger ceiling of where we can go with our lives. You’re telling me about Powered Women? Yeah. And it’s a movement community. And I wanna, I want you to explain what you do in there, because I think a lot of women listening here are at the stage where they have, they’re like done with dieting.

That is a no-brainer for them. And they wanna move their body, but they’re struggling. Mm-hmm. . And all they can find out there is a traditional fitness model. And I’m assuming your model is completely different. That’s right. Well, I can tell you straight out that my model and this community came about when I was still, I actually went back to the gyms.

I just want to say that I went back to the gyms teaching when I left management. I still went back to teaching, but when the pandemic came, I had to leave that space. And of course, many of us, we went online thinking it would be for two weeks and we would be back, but we knew that that’s not what happened.

And so I was teaching for a while, and then I, and I was doing so for free, and then I decided to create this community. So this community is really helping. It came from a place of movement, which your listeners might also understand to be exercise, but I call it movement, and it is a space where we are in weight neutral.

There’s no conversation in there about the exercise. Being about shrinking our bodies or changing our bodies. It’s about using movement to make us feel better to help us feel stronger to give us more mobility energy confidence. So, you know, and I guess the other thing is to none of my classes are, are, I’m going to say, crazy hard, like, you know, and they might be hard for maybe harder for the beginner, of course, but I’m not in there to create Something that feels too hard.

I want more people moving. I want women moving. So it’s learning how to be able to find the ways to move our bodies, release the rules, give ourselves permission to move our bodies the way we want. So as much as I teach live classes in that space, I also have an on demand library that probably has, I bet you 130 classes in there by now.

And so everything is, is usually around that 30 minute mark. And they get to go in there and choose what they want to do that day. No different than me. I don’t want to force my body to do things that it doesn’t want to do anymore. I want to move my body to keep it well and strong as I age, but I don’t want to force it to do things that are uncomfortable.

So that’s what the library is so great. So we’ve got the movement piece in there, of course. But the other thing that we do in that space is it’s really about sisterhood. You know, the women that have joined that space have created that space. They are there to support each other through their challenges.

They are there to support each other through their confidence, through their body image issues. You know, as much as we all know that the dieting doesn’t work, let’s be real. We still feel the feels because we live in this society. So I’m in there navigating and helping these women through those tougher days.

They help each other and, and we’re all there to help each other see what’s possible. You know, we’ve got women in their 60s and their 70s who are Who are in different stages of life. And then we have some women in their 20s and their 30s. So what I’m seeing here is beautiful generational support. And it’s, it’s lovely.

I am, I am just thrilled by it. So that’s a little bit about it. I love how you’re using what you’ve been doing for 15, 20 years, the fitness, which you’re really good at and have. shitload of experience and you’ve turned that around to create, yeah, fitness, but way more than that. You’re using the medium of fitness to help create courage and power and all that stuff.

But there’s another thing you do. And this is new. I did not know that. And I want to talk about it. It’s called hypnosis. Yeah. I’ve never talked about hypnosis and 364 episode. Well, allow me to be your first. What is hypnosis and how does it help with our journey of undying our life? Beautiful. Okay. So I went into this level of training because I needed it for myself because I’m going to keep this in the language that will help your listeners understand.

So. Everything that we’re doing in our life, all of our behaviors, our actions, which create the results that we have come from our thoughts. So we know that 95, somewhere up to 99% of our thought patterns are coming from our subconscious mind. Okay. So the subconscious mind is definitely rooted in those early years between zero and seven.

When we are trying to create change, let’s talk about the diet and dieting our lives. We have those patterns. We have the things that our mama or our grandma said to us when we were little kids, that’s all in our subconscious. What hypnotherapy allows me to help you do. And then it teaches my clients to do it too, is to be able, what we do is we go into the theta into our brainwaves into a deep.

Deep level of relaxation. When people think of hypnosis, they think of the comedy. They think of the person quacking like a duck. Hypnotherapy is about a deep level of relaxation that I take you into, which allows your conscious brain that wants to fight. Okay. It basically goes to sleep. And it allows me to then speak into your subconscious mind, what it is that you desire, what it is that you want for your life, how you can learn, how to take these rules that have been a part of our lives for so long and put them to rest, put them to rest and speak into the subconscious mind, how I want to feel about food, how I want to feel about my body.

So it’s is Your subconscious mind will only ever take on what is aligned with your values. So sometimes think, well, oh, my goodness. Well, what is she going to make me do? Well, I can’t make you do anything or take on any beliefs that are not already aligned with who you want to be. So this is such a beautiful tool because.

You know, we all know you talk about self sabotage all the time, right? We, we are trying to do things with our conscious mind, which is maybe responsible for 5%, 5%. So no wonder. And I don’t want, I don’t want people to understand we’re not failing here. We just have to be able to address that subconscious.

So that’s what the hypnotherapy allows me to do is I, and I mean, most people are coming to me for the food behaviors for the self love for the body image, right? But it goes into everything. I’ve got people that I’ve helped with anxiety with, with, um, confidence, like so many different things. Right. Um, yeah.

Give me an example, because as you said, I was laughing when she was saying like about the quacking on the stage, but Most uneducated people like me think of hypnosis as a showtime, but what really happens in the session just to like, create a level of safety with people if they ever want to do it? What does that look like in a hypnosis therapy session?

Beautiful. I love this question. So the wonderful thing is I do it through zoom. Okay, so it can be done virtually. So for the safety, first of all, we always what I do is I meet with people ahead of time to find out exactly what their desires are. Okay. They then really spend time on their own thinking about how if I have this desired goal, this desired identity, whatever I want to think, well, how do I know when I’m getting there?

What am I going to see when I’m living as this person? What will I see? What will I hear? What will I feel? What will my days look like? Right? So we’re really painting that picture, which they share with me, and then I build that in on my own time when I’m not with them into this beautiful script that I’ve created for them.

They come into Zoom, we see each other on our screen, we create that safe space in there, and then they can choose to sit down, they can choose to lie down in their own home. I do see them, and that’s important that I can see them. I invite them to close their eyes, and then I literally… Put on my beautiful music and I record.

That’s the key here is I record the session because although the hypnotherapy sessions already working for them right there on the spot, we know that the subconscious mind needs repetition. Okay. So then I create this recording for them. I then send it to them and then they will use that recording for sure in the first few weeks, three to four times best time to listen to hypnotherapy recordings.

And you know, any type of meditation work is first thing in the morning when we first wake up. Go to the bathroom, listen, or before bed, right? And then we follow up with another session afterwards to see how they’re doing. So it’s, it’s beautiful. My clients have had such wonderful, wonderful support with it.

And it is that next step that I’m so grateful I have. I often combine the hypnotherapy with also time techniques. Time techniques allows me. to support them. Time techniques allows me to help them travel in their timeline, in their subconscious mind. So we can go back to root behaviors. You know, where’s your root behavior, where you felt shame, where’s your root behavior, where you felt, um, fear, guilt.

Okay, these types of feelings that people have stuck in our bodies. So those tools go really, really nicely together. And often after the hypnotherapy, I’ll then use some of my other tools from neuro linguistic programming, which helped to then create those anchors in our body that we can then use so that when I feel confident when I feel.

Free around the food table around the potluck dinner, and I’m feeling so secure in myself, or maybe I’m on the beach and I’m like, you know what? I feel so good. And you can anchor those feelings in. So, um, they’re beautiful tools. It gives me shivers as I talk about it. Your, your passion comes through the zoom screen.

So, if no success. This therapy is about you narrating a script. To me, the recipient client will hear that and it will go directly in my subconscious mind. Did I understand this right? Correct. And the script is created based on what your desires are. That’s the key. And so we have something called the critical faculty, which is in our brain.

I like to call it like the wall, the wall between the subconscious and the conscious mind. So when I take you through this beautiful long meditation process, I’ll call it meditation, but it is getting you into your theta, right? We’ve all had those times where you’re driving in your car and you’re just really relaxed.

That’s what we’re doing. We, we go into hypnotherapy into a hypnosis state many times in our lives. So I’m taking you there in order to let that critical faculty go to rest for a while, put it to sleep so that I can then speak in with these beautiful embedded commands into the subconscious mind. And that’s when the reprogramming rewiring happen and then you let go.

So many people want to let go. That’s how we let go of. Yeah. Yeah. And you like, it is there, there comes a time where people are like, you know what? I’m just done. I just want this so much. Right. And that’s the thing. We’ve been doing too many things with the conscious mind. We’ve been using the willpower.

Right. Stephanie, we’ve been using the willpower. We’ve been using. Yeah. We’ve also been using language like, I can’t do this anymore. I can’t do this anymore. And we know that, that the subconscious mind can’t, you know, deliver on those negatives. Right? So it’s all about the way is the words are spoken and the subconscious mind like a sponge and it’s like, okay, okay, the subconscious mind will take you wherever you want to go.

It’s like you speak into it and it doesn’t know the difference between real or imaginary. If you speak it in and you speak it in a way. Your subconscious mind goes, oh, that’s where she wants to go. That’s where she wants to go. And the more we take on that behavior pattern and those thought patterns, we then naturally start to take on the behaviors of that because it starts from the thoughts.

What’s your opinion on this? Labeling ourselves. So I’ll give an example in the world of chronic pain, right? I. I’m someone with chronic pain. Oh, I’m a binge eater. I am a binge eater. Let’s take that example staying into food that just came to me. Yeah. Yeah. What’s the impact of taking on the identity of our quote unquote problem?

How does that play in the subconscious mind? Well, again, it’s going right back to that, what we just talked about. So the subconscious mind is listening. Um, I, I did not come up with this analogy, but I’m going to use it right now because it makes full sense. So I want you to picture that you’re walking around your world and you have a little executive assistant who’s walking around with you and she’s got her little notepad out.

I am a binge eater and she’s got her notepad and she’s like, Oh, binge eater. I’m going to make sure that I, that I found all the foods that she’s going to binge eat on because that’s who she wants to be. So think about that. Right? Yeah. Think about that. So when you’re taking on the behavior, you’re saying, this is my identity.

Well then that’s the behaviors that you’re taking on. Cause that’s where that comes from. So no. Like what I am not a binge eater and not a binge, even though we’ve, it’s kind of like all the people who say I’m an addict. I’m this. I’m it’s the labels. They don’t help us. The labels don’t help us. What if we’re going to say I am something.

How about saying I am a piece of food. I, my body knows what it needs. I have the ability to listen to my body and give it what it needs. I have coping skills and I can use those alongside food, like there’s so many things that we can say. Let’s keep our language positive. Right? I’m going to use this beautiful example for your listeners, Stephanie, don’t think of a pink elephant.

What did you think of? Pink elephant. Right? Okay. So, so let’s think about what we’re saying. If I want to think about who I want to be, think about that and speak that out in those terms. That’s the direction we want to go with our thoughts. So that’s phenomenal because that’s what I do unconsciously. Like I, I’m not, I don’t, I’m not a chronic pain person.

I experience chronic pain. I’m not a stress person. I experience stress. That’s right. Cause it’s not who we are. They’re the, they’re the feelings that we’re experiencing, right? It’s not about denying what’s happening to you. That’s not what we’re saying. You experience binge eating, but you’re not. That’s exactly right.

Let’s talk about self love because you have this beautiful gift for the listener, which is a self love hypnosis, which I think is brilliant because people can experience hypnosis, right? For all the people who are like me, who’s never experienced it, experience it. And also geared towards that goal of loving ourselves more.

Well, and it’s a self love itself, self esteem, right? We know that our feelings about our body. You know, I’m actually presenting on body imaging them in a month and there are some people that can have lived a certain lifestyle, but they’re not experiencing it the same way, you know, they’re not impacted the same way.

So what’s the difference, right? So we have to build up that level of self esteem and that confidence in ourselves, instead of constantly feeling like I have to learn how to love this body that feels pressure for people. So it’s like, that’s why I really believe that we have to see ourselves nurture, nurture this body, take care of this body, love on this body, but also all of the other pieces.

So in this hypnotherapy recording that I’ve created for your listeners as a gift, it’s, I don’t want to give it all away, but it’s a beautiful journey that they’re going to go on through me. So it’s a beautiful narrative story that I’m going to walk them through and they’re going to be doing things in this narration in this time in the recording that’s allowing them to release things from their past that they have been holding on to their whole life.

And when we can start to let go, you know, we’re holding, let’s go back to this identity. We’re holding on to things that people have said about us, that we’ve said about ourselves. And we get to start to let that go. We don’t have to let our past come with us into the future. Right? I love the analogies of the stories.

You know, we get to turn the page. So this recording will be there for your listeners. And they get to listen to this. All the instructions will come with it when they download it. And um, it’s a beautiful, beautiful gift and I, and I hope that everybody takes the time to get it. I think it’s fundamental to change our story that we tell ourselves to be one of love, right?

Towards our overall person, because that’s the foundation of us. So many people want to take the right action to take care of themselves, right? They want to move their body. They want to drink more water, not because they want to lose weight, just because they want to take care of themselves. But in order to have those good health promoting habits, we need to come at the habit from a place of love.

That’s right. Right. We know that nothing’s going to come. You know, you could be doing all the behaviors, but if you’re doing them from the wrong energy, it doesn’t matter. Right. Be sustainable. No. And then let’s, let’s also assume you might get there, get there and then be like, well, what now? I mean, I can think of all the times when I was in a very, very, very small body and I was not happy.

I still found faults in it. So we have to be able to find love, find love. We might not be in love, but can we find love? Yeah. For this body, because if we can find love for this body, then we’re going to want to take care of her, take care of her. What does that look like? You know, and this is this part of looking into our future.

If I want to envision myself loving this body, this body that has worked so hard for me, this body that I might’ve mistreated, but I want to love on her. How am I treating her? What am I doing for her? Right? So. Yeah, I think this is a great tool for everyone to have a different energy behind their intention and taking care of themselves.

And it starts with us making the choice, you know, like, we have to recognize and I know you probably talk about this all the time. You know, what are the things that we’ve done to try and get us on this path of self love? And if they haven’t worked. Then why not try a new approach? Right? And, um, you know, it’s, it, it takes time.

It takes time and it takes commitment and it takes. An environment that supports you, but we’re all able to get there and the sooner we realize this, the happier our lives will be amazing. Where can people find you Kim? Yeah, that’s all the places all the places. So very active on all the socials. So you can find me under Kim Basler.

B. A. S. L. E. R. underscore food freedom. So all the socials under there. My website’s kim basler dot com. And I think that that’s probably my emails. Kim at kim basler dot com. So everything’s under my name and I I’m very, you know, my social is very much my space where I share. I share very. Transparent with full transparency, I’m heart centered, you’ll see me crying one day, you’ll be seeing me dancing in my kitchen the next.

That’s who I am. That’s the video I have of you, you dancing salsa, I don’t know which dance you were dancing in the kitchen. It must be your most popular video because I see it often. You know, dancing, dancing has been my outlet for freedom and embodiment, right? Like it’s being able to. To allow myself, my body’s changed, right?

Our bodies change and our bodies can change and will change. And when we can release and just like feel that sensuality of moving our bodies, it’s just the best feeling ever. So, yeah, so we’ll put the link to the, the hypnosis, the free hypnosis for self love and all the link where we can find you. Thank you very much.

Thank you so much.

 

Self-Love & Hypnotherapy with Kim Basler

Welcome to the podcast, Kim. Hi, Stephanie. So happy to be here with you. Years in the making. Literally years in the making. It’s pretty amazing. We’ve known each other for years and we’ve been talking back and forth about having this conversation on the podcast and talking about what you do and it’s happening today.

So I’m very excited about that. Very excited. for you to talk about your journey as a woman through fitness and where you are now and how you’re helping people. And we’re going to talk about hypnosis, which is an area that I do not have any or very little knowledge on. So get ready for an amazing conversation.

So tell us your story. How did you came to be in the non diet space and helping women there? Yeah, thank you for this question. I mean, like you big long stories, right? So we decide what we want to share. Um, I grew up very much in a home environment where there was a lot of dieting, started dieting at 12 years old, similar to you and, you know, you kind of go into an environment and in a culture and a living lived experience that everyone’s doing around you.

And it sort of becomes your norm. Unfortunately, we know what can happen. And the dieting took me into a high school where I was really fixated on trying to make my body smaller like so many women are and that led me into an eating disorder. And then I went into the fitness industry, you know, I started I joined a gym at 14 as we’re told.

Exercise more, you can get your body smaller. And I went right into, I mean, this is back in the 1990s. So I, I was in all of this space. I didn’t know that I was not In a good space, you know, you just kind of are doing what you’re doing. And then I went into the industry, fitness industry, and I was working in that space for a really, really long time and juggling all the balls and being a mother and exercising way more than one should and just really fixated on the scale.

That was my was my daily thing that I did every morning when I woke up. And it was going, I’ll say, well, in quotations, um, until it wasn’t, until my body started to tell me that I couldn’t live like this anymore, my signs of my body telling me, you know, we ignore, we ignore what we feel, we push our bodies, many of us, and that’s what I did until my body started to tell me that I was not doing well.

And it started out with, um, body hives. I had, I was full of body hives and those body hives were being treated every single day with Allergy medication, which is what I was just told to do, and then it went into chest pains, chest palpitations, chest pains, and, you know, when you’re trying to juggle all of the things that you believe you have to do and how you’re supposed to look as a woman, it’s going to start to impact the other parts of your life, and it then started to impact my marriage, and I just felt like I couldn’t do all I couldn’t do it all anymore.

I was literally, I don’t like to, I used to call it a breakdown, a mental breakdown. I don’t call it that anymore, but I, and I’m just going to give a little, a little warning here. Cause I come into some sensitive conversation. Now I was, my brain was trying to show me ways out. You know, I couldn’t, I couldn’t keep up the pace anymore.

I was falling apart. I wasn’t sleeping anymore. I was unhappy, but I didn’t know how to get out because it was the identity that I’d known myself to be for my entire life. And I felt like a failure. I felt like it was all my fault. And then in 2016, I wish I could say that I was strong enough to say I need help, but that’s not what happened.

I, uh, you’re nodding your head. You get it. Um, I had, you know, whether you believe in God, but there was something higher than me that came in. And I literally did fall to my knees in a, in a In just the tsunami of tears that just would not stop and I had to get out and I just said, you know, I don’t know what this is going to look like.

I want to go on a medical leave, but that’s where it started for me. And I recognized that as, as I left the industry of fitness and spent a lot of long days by myself trying to figure out who I am and trying to recognize, like, what’s left because I can’t do this anymore. And that’s where it started for me.

And I learned very quickly that I had been dieting my entire life and how much that had impacted my joy, my happiness, my ability to love me for who I am and my healing journey began. So that’s a little bit of a snapshot. Thank you for sharing that and there’s two things that stand out for me, and I’m sure you can talk about that, but it’s the word identity Because as a fitness professional for decades, I think For me it was the corporate world with making a lot of money, right?

Your identity is Rewarded by society as a healthy person, a person who makes a lot of money and runs big business. Our identity is acknowledged, rewarded, positioned by society. Talk to me a little bit about that from a fitness perspective. Because you’re supposed to be in the most healthy environment, right?

Yeah, that’s exactly right. You know, so many of us and I say us, anybody that works in the field, we’re recognizing that this push this chase this idealistic look of how we’re supposed to be, it’s exhausting, and it’s burning us out and it’s making us sick. And yeah, I was caught up in it and I look, I look back like as even from a child, I struggled with who I was, like my self worth was right from a childhood.

Age so I openly talk about how I sought the validation. My ego needed the validation. And so the thinner I got. The more praise I got and you know, when I became a mother and everyone saw everything that I was doing, I was also praised for that. I don’t know how you do it all. Tell me how you do it all.

You look so great. And so even though I was falling apart and I knew that I wasn’t able to keep this up. We put on the mask, right? Like how many times would I walk into the gym and I’d have to put the mask on. I had 40, 50 people in front of me that were there wanting me to smile as I always did Stephanie, but I was tired and burnt out.

So, yeah, it was the only thing I knew. It was the only thing I believed I was good at. And I was good at it. I became instructor of the year for all of Canada for the company I worked for. So I was good at what I was doing. But it wasn’t coming from the foundation of love. It was coming from a foundation of, you know, this is what controls my body size.

Yes. I have fun teaching, but the, the root of it was coming from the calorie burning and the thinness and the validation. Yeah. And we, because we’re rewarded for this identity, it’s hard to come out of it. Yeah. And I don’t even think I knew that at the time. Like, I didn’t know that at the time that that’s what I was, what, that’s what I was doing.

That comes from all of the work of the healing. Right. Um, but yeah, but you met the resistance, like it was hard. So I want people to hear your story. It may not know it’s their identity, but the resistance. The feeling of stuckness you’re in, perhaps it’s a story similar to us in a different identity. Yeah, and it’s the behaviors and it’s the ways we live every day that become that person that we know ourselves to be.

Right? And it’s those behaviors and that way of being. That is, I’m gonna call it a drug. It’s the, it’s the, it’s the drive. It’s the addiction. It’s the, ooh, that steel that you get from that. Right? Yeah. So, beautiful story. And today, 180 in another place. Now you help women. That are going through this journey themselves.

Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Yeah, it’s beautiful and it’s um, it’s come about in the most wonderful way. You know, when I think back to the first few clients that I worked with, right, we brought the clients that help us. Right. And it’s been wonderful. And it’s, it’s been a space where I’ve been able to help them gain the clarity that they wanted for their lives.

I’m not here to tell them what their self love or their self worth should look like, but I am here to help them recognize that what you’re doing isn’t working for you. So let’s just recognize that and then seek out what will feel good. Right. And being a space for them. So yeah, I’ve worked one on one with a lot of clients.

We did it. I’ve done a lot of one on one coaching as many of us do. And, and then now I’ve got my beautiful communities that I serve in and I support. And I love that so much because as much as it’s about healing the relationship with food and learning how to accept our bodies, it’s also then all of the other pieces, the courage, the confidence, the things that we’re allowing ourselves to do now that we weren’t allowing ourselves to do before.

And that’s really what excites me too, because when we can step away from all of the rules and the conditions of what we’re supposed to be as women, we then see a bigger ceiling of where we can go with our lives. You’re telling me about Powered Women? Yeah. And it’s a movement community. And I wanna, I want you to explain what you do in there, because I think a lot of women listening here are at the stage where they have, they’re like done with dieting.

That is a no-brainer for them. And they wanna move their body, but they’re struggling. Mm-hmm. . And all they can find out there is a traditional fitness model. And I’m assuming your model is completely different. That’s right. Well, I can tell you straight out that my model and this community came about when I was still, I actually went back to the gyms.

I just want to say that I went back to the gyms teaching when I left management. I still went back to teaching, but when the pandemic came, I had to leave that space. And of course, many of us, we went online thinking it would be for two weeks and we would be back, but we knew that that’s not what happened.

And so I was teaching for a while, and then I, and I was doing so for free, and then I decided to create this community. So this community is really helping. It came from a place of movement, which your listeners might also understand to be exercise, but I call it movement, and it is a space where we are in weight neutral.

There’s no conversation in there about the exercise. Being about shrinking our bodies or changing our bodies. It’s about using movement to make us feel better to help us feel stronger to give us more mobility energy confidence. So, you know, and I guess the other thing is to none of my classes are, are, I’m going to say, crazy hard, like, you know, and they might be hard for maybe harder for the beginner, of course, but I’m not in there to create Something that feels too hard.

I want more people moving. I want women moving. So it’s learning how to be able to find the ways to move our bodies, release the rules, give ourselves permission to move our bodies the way we want. So as much as I teach live classes in that space, I also have an on demand library that probably has, I bet you 130 classes in there by now.

And so everything is, is usually around that 30 minute mark. And they get to go in there and choose what they want to do that day. No different than me. I don’t want to force my body to do things that it doesn’t want to do anymore. I want to move my body to keep it well and strong as I age, but I don’t want to force it to do things that are uncomfortable.

So that’s what the library is so great. So we’ve got the movement piece in there, of course. But the other thing that we do in that space is it’s really about sisterhood. You know, the women that have joined that space have created that space. They are there to support each other through their challenges.

They are there to support each other through their confidence, through their body image issues. You know, as much as we all know that the dieting doesn’t work, let’s be real. We still feel the feels because we live in this society. So I’m in there navigating and helping these women through those tougher days.

They help each other and, and we’re all there to help each other see what’s possible. You know, we’ve got women in their 60s and their 70s who are Who are in different stages of life. And then we have some women in their 20s and their 30s. So what I’m seeing here is beautiful generational support. And it’s, it’s lovely.

I am, I am just thrilled by it. So that’s a little bit about it. I love how you’re using what you’ve been doing for 15, 20 years, the fitness, which you’re really good at and have. shitload of experience and you’ve turned that around to create, yeah, fitness, but way more than that. You’re using the medium of fitness to help create courage and power and all that stuff.

But there’s another thing you do. And this is new. I did not know that. And I want to talk about it. It’s called hypnosis. Yeah. I’ve never talked about hypnosis and 364 episode. Well, allow me to be your first. What is hypnosis and how does it help with our journey of undying our life? Beautiful. Okay. So I went into this level of training because I needed it for myself because I’m going to keep this in the language that will help your listeners understand.

So. Everything that we’re doing in our life, all of our behaviors, our actions, which create the results that we have come from our thoughts. So we know that 95, somewhere up to 99% of our thought patterns are coming from our subconscious mind. Okay. So the subconscious mind is definitely rooted in those early years between zero and seven.

When we are trying to create change, let’s talk about the diet and dieting our lives. We have those patterns. We have the things that our mama or our grandma said to us when we were little kids, that’s all in our subconscious. What hypnotherapy allows me to help you do. And then it teaches my clients to do it too, is to be able, what we do is we go into the theta into our brainwaves into a deep.

Deep level of relaxation. When people think of hypnosis, they think of the comedy. They think of the person quacking like a duck. Hypnotherapy is about a deep level of relaxation that I take you into, which allows your conscious brain that wants to fight. Okay. It basically goes to sleep. And it allows me to then speak into your subconscious mind, what it is that you desire, what it is that you want for your life, how you can learn, how to take these rules that have been a part of our lives for so long and put them to rest, put them to rest and speak into the subconscious mind, how I want to feel about food, how I want to feel about my body.

So it’s is Your subconscious mind will only ever take on what is aligned with your values. So sometimes think, well, oh, my goodness. Well, what is she going to make me do? Well, I can’t make you do anything or take on any beliefs that are not already aligned with who you want to be. So this is such a beautiful tool because.

You know, we all know you talk about self sabotage all the time, right? We, we are trying to do things with our conscious mind, which is maybe responsible for 5%, 5%. So no wonder. And I don’t want, I don’t want people to understand we’re not failing here. We just have to be able to address that subconscious.

So that’s what the hypnotherapy allows me to do is I, and I mean, most people are coming to me for the food behaviors for the self love for the body image, right? But it goes into everything. I’ve got people that I’ve helped with anxiety with, with, um, confidence, like so many different things. Right. Um, yeah.

Give me an example, because as you said, I was laughing when she was saying like about the quacking on the stage, but Most uneducated people like me think of hypnosis as a showtime, but what really happens in the session just to like, create a level of safety with people if they ever want to do it? What does that look like in a hypnosis therapy session?

Beautiful. I love this question. So the wonderful thing is I do it through zoom. Okay, so it can be done virtually. So for the safety, first of all, we always what I do is I meet with people ahead of time to find out exactly what their desires are. Okay. They then really spend time on their own thinking about how if I have this desired goal, this desired identity, whatever I want to think, well, how do I know when I’m getting there?

What am I going to see when I’m living as this person? What will I see? What will I hear? What will I feel? What will my days look like? Right? So we’re really painting that picture, which they share with me, and then I build that in on my own time when I’m not with them into this beautiful script that I’ve created for them.

They come into Zoom, we see each other on our screen, we create that safe space in there, and then they can choose to sit down, they can choose to lie down in their own home. I do see them, and that’s important that I can see them. I invite them to close their eyes, and then I literally… Put on my beautiful music and I record.

That’s the key here is I record the session because although the hypnotherapy sessions already working for them right there on the spot, we know that the subconscious mind needs repetition. Okay. So then I create this recording for them. I then send it to them and then they will use that recording for sure in the first few weeks, three to four times best time to listen to hypnotherapy recordings.

And you know, any type of meditation work is first thing in the morning when we first wake up. Go to the bathroom, listen, or before bed, right? And then we follow up with another session afterwards to see how they’re doing. So it’s, it’s beautiful. My clients have had such wonderful, wonderful support with it.

And it is that next step that I’m so grateful I have. I often combine the hypnotherapy with also time techniques. Time techniques allows me. to support them. Time techniques allows me to help them travel in their timeline, in their subconscious mind. So we can go back to root behaviors. You know, where’s your root behavior, where you felt shame, where’s your root behavior, where you felt, um, fear, guilt.

Okay, these types of feelings that people have stuck in our bodies. So those tools go really, really nicely together. And often after the hypnotherapy, I’ll then use some of my other tools from neuro linguistic programming, which helped to then create those anchors in our body that we can then use so that when I feel confident when I feel.

Free around the food table around the potluck dinner, and I’m feeling so secure in myself, or maybe I’m on the beach and I’m like, you know what? I feel so good. And you can anchor those feelings in. So, um, they’re beautiful tools. It gives me shivers as I talk about it. Your, your passion comes through the zoom screen.

So, if no success. This therapy is about you narrating a script. To me, the recipient client will hear that and it will go directly in my subconscious mind. Did I understand this right? Correct. And the script is created based on what your desires are. That’s the key. And so we have something called the critical faculty, which is in our brain.

I like to call it like the wall, the wall between the subconscious and the conscious mind. So when I take you through this beautiful long meditation process, I’ll call it meditation, but it is getting you into your theta, right? We’ve all had those times where you’re driving in your car and you’re just really relaxed.

That’s what we’re doing. We, we go into hypnotherapy into a hypnosis state many times in our lives. So I’m taking you there in order to let that critical faculty go to rest for a while, put it to sleep so that I can then speak in with these beautiful embedded commands into the subconscious mind. And that’s when the reprogramming rewiring happen and then you let go.

So many people want to let go. That’s how we let go of. Yeah. Yeah. And you like, it is there, there comes a time where people are like, you know what? I’m just done. I just want this so much. Right. And that’s the thing. We’ve been doing too many things with the conscious mind. We’ve been using the willpower.

Right. Stephanie, we’ve been using the willpower. We’ve been using. Yeah. We’ve also been using language like, I can’t do this anymore. I can’t do this anymore. And we know that, that the subconscious mind can’t, you know, deliver on those negatives. Right? So it’s all about the way is the words are spoken and the subconscious mind like a sponge and it’s like, okay, okay, the subconscious mind will take you wherever you want to go.

It’s like you speak into it and it doesn’t know the difference between real or imaginary. If you speak it in and you speak it in a way. Your subconscious mind goes, oh, that’s where she wants to go. That’s where she wants to go. And the more we take on that behavior pattern and those thought patterns, we then naturally start to take on the behaviors of that because it starts from the thoughts.

What’s your opinion on this? Labeling ourselves. So I’ll give an example in the world of chronic pain, right? I. I’m someone with chronic pain. Oh, I’m a binge eater. I am a binge eater. Let’s take that example staying into food that just came to me. Yeah. Yeah. What’s the impact of taking on the identity of our quote unquote problem?

How does that play in the subconscious mind? Well, again, it’s going right back to that, what we just talked about. So the subconscious mind is listening. Um, I, I did not come up with this analogy, but I’m going to use it right now because it makes full sense. So I want you to picture that you’re walking around your world and you have a little executive assistant who’s walking around with you and she’s got her little notepad out.

I am a binge eater and she’s got her notepad and she’s like, Oh, binge eater. I’m going to make sure that I, that I found all the foods that she’s going to binge eat on because that’s who she wants to be. So think about that. Right? Yeah. Think about that. So when you’re taking on the behavior, you’re saying, this is my identity.

Well then that’s the behaviors that you’re taking on. Cause that’s where that comes from. So no. Like what I am not a binge eater and not a binge, even though we’ve, it’s kind of like all the people who say I’m an addict. I’m this. I’m it’s the labels. They don’t help us. The labels don’t help us. What if we’re going to say I am something.

How about saying I am a piece of food. I, my body knows what it needs. I have the ability to listen to my body and give it what it needs. I have coping skills and I can use those alongside food, like there’s so many things that we can say. Let’s keep our language positive. Right? I’m going to use this beautiful example for your listeners, Stephanie, don’t think of a pink elephant.

What did you think of? Pink elephant. Right? Okay. So, so let’s think about what we’re saying. If I want to think about who I want to be, think about that and speak that out in those terms. That’s the direction we want to go with our thoughts. So that’s phenomenal because that’s what I do unconsciously. Like I, I’m not, I don’t, I’m not a chronic pain person.

I experience chronic pain. I’m not a stress person. I experience stress. That’s right. Cause it’s not who we are. They’re the, they’re the feelings that we’re experiencing, right? It’s not about denying what’s happening to you. That’s not what we’re saying. You experience binge eating, but you’re not. That’s exactly right.

Let’s talk about self love because you have this beautiful gift for the listener, which is a self love hypnosis, which I think is brilliant because people can experience hypnosis, right? For all the people who are like me, who’s never experienced it, experience it. And also geared towards that goal of loving ourselves more.

Well, and it’s a self love itself, self esteem, right? We know that our feelings about our body. You know, I’m actually presenting on body imaging them in a month and there are some people that can have lived a certain lifestyle, but they’re not experiencing it the same way, you know, they’re not impacted the same way.

So what’s the difference, right? So we have to build up that level of self esteem and that confidence in ourselves, instead of constantly feeling like I have to learn how to love this body that feels pressure for people. So it’s like, that’s why I really believe that we have to see ourselves nurture, nurture this body, take care of this body, love on this body, but also all of the other pieces.

So in this hypnotherapy recording that I’ve created for your listeners as a gift, it’s, I don’t want to give it all away, but it’s a beautiful journey that they’re going to go on through me. So it’s a beautiful narrative story that I’m going to walk them through and they’re going to be doing things in this narration in this time in the recording that’s allowing them to release things from their past that they have been holding on to their whole life.

And when we can start to let go, you know, we’re holding, let’s go back to this identity. We’re holding on to things that people have said about us, that we’ve said about ourselves. And we get to start to let that go. We don’t have to let our past come with us into the future. Right? I love the analogies of the stories.

You know, we get to turn the page. So this recording will be there for your listeners. And they get to listen to this. All the instructions will come with it when they download it. And um, it’s a beautiful, beautiful gift and I, and I hope that everybody takes the time to get it. I think it’s fundamental to change our story that we tell ourselves to be one of love, right?

Towards our overall person, because that’s the foundation of us. So many people want to take the right action to take care of themselves, right? They want to move their body. They want to drink more water, not because they want to lose weight, just because they want to take care of themselves. But in order to have those good health promoting habits, we need to come at the habit from a place of love.

That’s right. Right. We know that nothing’s going to come. You know, you could be doing all the behaviors, but if you’re doing them from the wrong energy, it doesn’t matter. Right. Be sustainable. No. And then let’s, let’s also assume you might get there, get there and then be like, well, what now? I mean, I can think of all the times when I was in a very, very, very small body and I was not happy.

I still found faults in it. So we have to be able to find love, find love. We might not be in love, but can we find love? Yeah. For this body, because if we can find love for this body, then we’re going to want to take care of her, take care of her. What does that look like? You know, and this is this part of looking into our future.

If I want to envision myself loving this body, this body that has worked so hard for me, this body that I might’ve mistreated, but I want to love on her. How am I treating her? What am I doing for her? Right? So. Yeah, I think this is a great tool for everyone to have a different energy behind their intention and taking care of themselves.

And it starts with us making the choice, you know, like, we have to recognize and I know you probably talk about this all the time. You know, what are the things that we’ve done to try and get us on this path of self love? And if they haven’t worked. Then why not try a new approach? Right? And, um, you know, it’s, it, it takes time.

It takes time and it takes commitment and it takes. An environment that supports you, but we’re all able to get there and the sooner we realize this, the happier our lives will be amazing. Where can people find you Kim? Yeah, that’s all the places all the places. So very active on all the socials. So you can find me under Kim Basler.

B. A. S. L. E. R. underscore food freedom. So all the socials under there. My website’s kim basler dot com. And I think that that’s probably my emails. Kim at kim basler dot com. So everything’s under my name and I I’m very, you know, my social is very much my space where I share. I share very. Transparent with full transparency, I’m heart centered, you’ll see me crying one day, you’ll be seeing me dancing in my kitchen the next.

That’s who I am. That’s the video I have of you, you dancing salsa, I don’t know which dance you were dancing in the kitchen. It must be your most popular video because I see it often. You know, dancing, dancing has been my outlet for freedom and embodiment, right? Like it’s being able to. To allow myself, my body’s changed, right?

Our bodies change and our bodies can change and will change. And when we can release and just like feel that sensuality of moving our bodies, it’s just the best feeling ever. So, yeah, so we’ll put the link to the, the hypnosis, the free hypnosis for self love and all the link where we can find you. Thank you very much.

Thank you so much.

read more
369-Weight Gain: Experiencing, Processing and Accepting a New Body Weight

369-Weight Gain: Experiencing, Processing and Accepting a New Body Weight

5 Fallacies of Weight Gain

I’d love to get you started with a mini-lesson in dealing with weight gain.

This is how you set yourself up to be neutral with your body and create confidence, freedom, and ease in your life today, next month, and for the rest of your life.

#1-Nothing has gone wrong

It’s expected and normal that you gain weight after dieting. Research is clear: the #1 predictor of weight gain is having been on a diet.

Your body didn’t wrong you. You didn’t get lazy. So stop the mental self-torture and make a choice:

Go back on a diet and commit to being on it the rest of your life; otherwise, you’ll regain the weight AGAIN. (NB-I can’t help with this choice… preferable that you unsubscribe to my emailing you as this will only be more torture for you.)

Accept that controlling the amount of fat your body is NOT in your control and move to step 2.

#2-Weight acceptance doesn’t mean giving up

Accepting your body weight simply means focusing on what you can actually control.

It means making your life a lot easier by reducing the stress, anxiety, discomfort you experience EVERYDAY.

It means taking care of your health in a way that is SUPPORTIVE.

Moreover, it means working “hard” but in a new way: in a way that makes you feel better right away.

#3-Change the focus

The goal you were chasing through controlling your body weight can be achieved in another way.

Happiness, confidence, security are the outcome of what is happening in your mind, not the size of your pants.

Focus on mastering your mindset so you can think thoughts that will allow you to access your desired feelings RIGHT AWAY.

That same mindset skill you’ll learn is what will allow you to commit to health-promoting behaviors beyond weight loss.

#4-Think about food but in a new way

Use food to build trust with your body instead of trying to control it.

Learn to think about food in a way that will not create obsession and rebellious eating.

Learn to eat in a way that will be healthy and sustainable for the rest of your life. Eat in a way that will be easy and respectful of your body.

#5-Be radical in choosing love at every corner

Learn to RESPOND to fear instead of REACTING to fear.

Responding, for example, means when you encounter a circumstance where you feel your body is being judged, instead of reacting and planning your next diet, you instead become curious as to why you felt judged and work on what in you created this feeling of being judged. Meet the desire to starve your body with self-compassion.

It will require effort to learn to process fear differently and choose love for yourself, but you CAN DO IT.

It’s a revolutionary choice for women to accept their body and weight gain.

Everything in our society is built to make it hard for women to be accepting of their body and age, so we buy into the multi-billion $$ weight loss and anti-aging industries.

YOU CAN DO HARD THINGS.

You’ve been doing hard things your whole life, and this one is no different.

I BELIEVE IN YOU and your capacity to do this work. Moreover, I will uphold this belief for you until you build the skill to believe in your damn self.

I TRUST you to do this work exactly in the way you need for you.

I’ll teach you exactly what you need to know and do for you to know how to accept and neutralize your weight and body with ease and grace. I have done this work for myself and coached hundreds of women to do the same.

What you’ll learn listening to this episode on the 5 fallacies of weight gain:

  • 5 fallacies of weight gain
  • Why most women have a false understanding of acceptance
  • What you to focus on if not number on the scale for your well-being

Mentioned in the show: 

Women Beyond The Scale Workshop Ticket

Undiet Your Life Coaching Program

Transcript

GBTF369-Weight Gain: Experiencing, Processing and Accepting a New Body Weight

===

This is episode 369 of the Going to Beyond the Food Podcast, and today it’s gonna be all about weight gain, how to experience it, process it. Accept your new body weight. Ready? Let’s do this.

Welcome back my dear listener of the going to be on the food show. I missed you. We took a six week break for the summer and now we’re back. We’re back probably right through to the end of the year with brand new episode. A lot of new things coming up on the podcast. I’ve met the most incredible people over the last six weeks that I’m excited to bring to you on the podcast. So you’re gonna hear a lot more interviews, a lot more of my people coming live for you on the podcast and topics we have never discussed in and almost seven years of podcasting. We’re gonna celebrate our seventh year in November of 2023. Just blows my mind to think about that.

So a lot of new things coming up, had a great break. over the summer. I, I don’t have the typical relationship, to be quite honest with you, to vacation that I used to have when I was working for someone else, when I was in the corporate world. Today I have been running my business for almost seven years. I make my own schedule. I create what I want, I work on what I want, so, I don’t think of vacation in the same way that I used to. So it’s very interesting when comes summer, people are like, oh, when are you taking vacation? Where are you going on vacation? I don’t go to vacation in the same way that most people do and typically, summertime for me is not vacation time, and I’m using air quotes here. Because I’m a digital nomad, 50% of my time is spent traveling in different places around the world, and I decide to stay home in North America in Canada during the summer, and I reserve time off my schedule when I’m in a new country to discover the culture, the museum hang around people from that country.

So for me, that’s when my quote unquote traditional vacation are used and they’re not using block of like two weeks in a week. They’re like two to three days here, a long weekend over here. When I’m in different countries, So if you ask me what I did this summer, I worked on the business. I worked on going beyond the food.

I worked on the non diet coaching certification, looking a lot internally at our processes and what we’re gonna launch for program. We did a massive survey of you guys, the listener of the podcast, people who follow me on social media, and we got a ton of feedback back on what kind of help you need and how you wanna receive that help.

So I spent a lot of time in the month of July reading your feedback and asking myself, how can I serve you based on. What you’re telling me you need. So you’re gonna see a ton of new stuff coming out, in the next few months. And some of you perhaps already started to experience this new going beyond the food. We launch a, workshop, which we hadn’t done in a few years, like. Paid workshop with me in the month of July. It was a tremendous success. We’re repeating it again in the month of August. We’re gonna have a workshop and I’m gonna talk to you about this. So if you’re listening to this live, we are in August of 2023. We are now launching our second, workshop called Women Beyond the Scale. This is gonna blow your mind. I am going to talk about what we’re gonna talk about today, which is weight gain, but we’re gonna deep dive into how our bodies, our human bodies manage weight and all the lies we’ve been told and all the actual truth.

That we’ve not been told about how our body handles weight. So we’re gonna talk about set points. We’re gonna talk about natural weight range. We’re gonna talk about weight neutral health, because typically, again, on your feedback, you’ve given us the number one concern you have about gaining weight. Is what it’s going to do to your health, right?

So we’re gonna dive into what does actually wait impacts on our health and what does science tell us? and how can we approach health without being focused on weight? So we’re gonna talk about that and we’re gonna talk about self-acceptance. We’re gonna talk about it a little bit today, but I’m gonna dive into the workshop a lot more on self-acceptance and how you can bring that.

Into your life and specifically around your weight, what can that look like for you? So that workshop is gonna happen on August the 20th, on Sunday, August the 20th, and it’s our second paid workshop and we’re gonna have more. one of thing you clearly told us is more Accessibility to our coaching, to our education at a more accessible price point. So that’s why I started to launch those paid workshop at a smaller price point. So the workshop on, women beyond the scale is gonna be $37, and we’re gonna continue to offer more of that for the rest of the year.

So that’s what I’ve been doing this summer. Really busy in the business and servicing you better as things change and evolve. What do you want and how you want it. That’s really what has been my focus this summer, which is why we’re gonna talk about weight gain today

because. The number one point of struggle you told us you had was your weight. So today I want to talk about five fruits about weight gain. A mini lesson on experiencing weight gain, how to process it, and how to accept it. Now, if you’re listening to this podcast for the first time and you have no idea about me and going beyond the food, if you’re. Thinking that this podcast is gonna tell you how to lose the weight, this is not what it’s gonna do. So we can end the listening of the podcast right now, and there is. Millions of resources for you out into the internet, even in the podcast world, that will service you with your desire to intentionally lose weight.

That is not what I do. So we’re gonna talk about weight gain, but not with the eyes of, oh my God, I need to lose this weight. Instead, the lens I wanna take with you is, How can I experience weight gain, process it so that I can accept my weight and my body and myself so I can be living my best life? The number one thing I want to get us started on is a deep sense of knowing that nothing has gone wrong.

Is expected. It is normal that you gain weight after a period of intentional weight loss. That the weight loss is, when I talk about intentional weight loss is you taking action in order to lose weight. That’s what we call intentional weight loss, not a weight loss that happens. While you just live your life and don’t restrict, don’t over exercise.

So I wanna be clear on that. If you’ve been to a period of intentional weight loss, like dedicated specific action dedicated to you losing weight, it is normal and expected that you gain weight after that period of intentional weight loss. Research is clear that the number one predictor of weight gain in human is having been in a period of intentional weight loss, typically called a diet or a restriction. Now wellness culture presents us with. Losing weight, quote unquote. Naturally, you should see me on the video. Right now I’m making all kinds of faces and using air quote, but wellness culture is trying to sell us that if we just eat perfectly and we eat clean, we’re gonna release the natural way.

All of that is intentional weight loss. So if you’ve been through that period, it’s. Normal. Your body did not wrong you. You didn’t get lazy, so please stop the mental torture of something has gone wrong with you or your body. Nothing has gone wrong. It’s expected. It’s normal. I’m sorry to say that you didn’t know that.

It’s expected, so now you have two choices, A or B. If you want to lose the weight you gain, there’s only but one solution. Go back on the diet, on the plan that made you lose the weight in the first place and commit to following that plan. For the rest of your life to the letter. Otherwise, you will again regain the weight again and again, and again and again.

Now, choice A, this choice, I cannot help you with that. It goes against my ethics, my values, but as I mentioned earlier, there is. Literally thousands of people, industry that will sell you a solution for that. I focus on choice B. Choice B is accepting that, controlling the amount of weight body has. It is not in your control, and I know you’re frustrated with that because that’s not what you were told.

That’s not what you were educated to. I hear you, and I’m sorry that you were. Led to believe that you could control your body. But remember that there is multi-billion dollar industry standing behind this lie. That is that you can control your body and they have hundreds of product to sell you to support this ideology that you can control your body.

But yet here you are today. And it hasn’t worked so. Step number one, accepting that the illusion that you being able to control your body is false, which is gonna move us into kind of step two of experiencing and processing and accepting weight gain, which is the understanding of acceptance, accepting your body weight.

It doesn’t mean giving up. It doesn’t mean of resigning. It doesn’t mean suffering for the rest of your life. It simply mean that you are deciding to focus on what you can actually control. And accepting that there’s things you cannot control, and focusing on what you can control, but you cannot control is actually what is causing suffering.

What’s causing suffering, like emotional despair for you is not the actual molecule of fat on your belly. These molecule don’t cause you suffering. What causes suffering is the thought that you should be able to control that molecule of fat on your belly. If you lose that and you accept you cannot control, then you can focus on everything else that you can control, like your mental health, your emotional health.

Working on health promoting behavior that have nothing to do with the weight on the scale. And let me just tell you this, there’s hundreds of things you can do that have nothing to do with the weight. In the workshop we’re gonna do on August the 20th, I’m gonna give you a list of a hundred different things you can do towards your health that have nothing to do with the scale.

So challenge me. There’s a shit ton of stuff you can do. So acceptance means moving forward, reducing your suffering, working on yourself, but on the thing you can actually control, which leads me to point number three in processing and accepting weight gain, which is to change the focus. And I get it. It’s hard because just like you, I was in there for 25 years. My entire focus was about the scale and the weight. So thinking that it doesn’t have to be the entire focus of my life and my health and my attempt at getting a better life is. Weird, but I’m telling you that’s part of the process of accepting weight gain is changing the focus, changing the focus from the weight on the scale to your mental health, to your emotional wellbeing, your spiritual wellbeing, to focusing on doing more of what makes you feel good in the moment. Right now, not we have been used to this concept of delaying. Feeling better until we achieve a number on the scale. The skill we need to develop is feeling better now, doing the things right now that brings you happiness, that brings you security, that brings you confidence. Right now, not when something else happened. And that’s a skill in itself. And a lot of that has to do with, or it starts with what happens in your mind.

I talk a lot on this podcast about mindset, mindset, work, thought work. What does that mean? So when we change the focus on the weight on the scale, we bring the focus on all the craziness that happens in our mind, all the thoughts we think, all the self-critical thoughts we have about ourselves and the rest of the world, and the judgment and the never ending questioning of everything we do, and always trying to be better and do things better.

We look at all these thoughts and these demands that we have in ourselves, and we answer the question is this thought is this pattern of thinking helping me feel better right now? Or is it actually hindering me? And then we start quote unquote marrying our thoughts. Right. When a thoughts is not serving us anymore, when a belief is not serving us anymore, we change it.

We let it go and bring a new thought or new belief in. That’s what I mean by changing the focus. So change the focus from the number on the scale L to the quality of your thinking, which leads me to number four, the number one place. We need to start, or at least I believe that as women who have been obsessed with shrinking our body, where I believe we get the biggest bang for our buck to change the way we think is with food.

Because food has been the, I’ll call it that our food, our eating pattern have been our. Object of torture because that’s what we believe would change the number on the scale. So we have all kinds of crazy ways of thinking about food that no longer serves us in the world where we want to accept our body weights.

So we need to think about food in a new way. We need to neutralize all food. We need to learn to think about food in a way that will not create obsession and will not create rebellious eating patterns so we can eat calmly, naturally, and peacefully. Like all the other people in our life who’ve never been on a restrictive plan, they just eat when they’re hungry.

They stop when they’re full. They eat what they like. In order for you to have these eating behavior of calm and peace and satisfaction, it’s gonna be through the way you think about food. So the first kind of focus for mindset work, thought work, I suggested to be around food using by far my favorite process, which call is called Intuitive Eating.

It’s a process created by, my teacher and mentor, Evelyn Tribole. Which takes us through a 10 step process to change our thoughts about food so we can change the way we feel and our behavior around food. And the fifth step to process, to experience, and to accept our new body weight is to become radical.

In choosing love over fear in every part of our life, literally in everything. There’s a concept that we teach in all of my program, including on dietary life, which is self-compassion, and it’s something that, that as former. ER of food, former people who believe they should be in a smaller body, we don’t have a good grasp on because we cannot be compassionate with ourselves. While. Holding the belief that something is wrong with our body. Something is wrong with us for not being able to control our body. The two go against each other.

So when we let go of this ideology that we should be able to control our body, that we should be in a smaller body, and we want to accept what we need to learn. Self-compassion and the best way for me to simplify this process is being radical in choosing love over fear in every choice that you have in your life.

It’s gonna be hard. Like I’m saying that and really exaggerating the work hard because it is hard for us to become, to learn, to become compassionate. But the cool thing is once you have learned and experienced the power of self-compassion, oh men, You never want to go back on being hard on yourself, judging yourself, criticizing yourself, thinking something is wrong with yourself, and harming yourself because you know how good your life can be and how great you can feel

when you show yourself self-compassion when you show yourself love-based choice. You can do hard things. You can learn this. You can embrace it. You can learn to practice it until it becomes second nature. I just want to end this podcast in saying this, my sisters, you and I have been doing hard things our whole life.

think about this. I. We’ve deprived ourselves. We have physically starved ourselves. We have been the most critical person on ourselves. We have thought thoughts about ourselves that we would never think about anything else like we have been. Hard on ourselves. We know how to do hard things. We can learn to experience, process, and accept weight gain.

We can do this, I believe in you. I’ve seen it done hundreds of times over and over again through the amazing. Women that have had the opportunity to coach over the last eight years, I believe in you. I know you have the capacity to do this work, and I will uphold this belief for you until you build the skill.

To believe in yourself in the same way that I believe in you. I trust that you can do this work. I trust that your body can manage its weight 100%. I trust that your mind. Can be compassionate with yourself, so let’s do this hard thing that it is experiencing, processing, and accepting weight gain differently.

If I can be of support in this journey for you, come to the workshop on August the 20th. The link will be in the show note to our round this post somewhere, or join us inside of and diet your life and we will do this work together. I love you, my sister, and I’ll see you on the next episode of the Going to Be on the Food Show.

 

read more
362-Self-Leadership with Unyime Oguta

362-Self-Leadership with Unyime Oguta

self-leadership

Self-leadership is what determines how much we can live our life with purpose and intent. 

As a woman, self-leadership is defined by our ability to step into our power therefore from diet culture.

In this powerful conversation between myself and Unyime Oguta we explore what self-leadership means to both of us and how it allows us to reach our goals and live our best life despite our marginalized identities.

Self-leadership for women

Self-leadership is the practice of understanding who you are, identifying your desired experiences, and intentionally guiding yourself toward them.

I believe that self-leadership is our ability to guide ourselves towards what we want to experience.

What you’ll learn listening to this episode:

  • How going beyond the food leads both of us to self-leadership
  • Unyime shares how self-leadership helps rise her 3 daughters
  • Self-responsibility versus self-leadership
  • How you can develop self-leadership in your life.

 

Mentioned in the show: 

Health Habits Checklist

Rebellious Eating Solution Webinar

Quiz: Is it you or your diet?

Undiet Your Life Program

Non-Diet Coaching Certification

Connect with our guest:

Website – Unyime Oguta

Instagram – Unyime Oguta

Facebook – Unyime Oguta

Transcript

GBTF362

===

This is episode 362 of the going to be on the Food Show, and today we are chatting with one of my most often welcome guests on this podcast, OMI Agua, about self-leadership and how self-leadership has played such a vital role in both of our life. And we’re gonna share with you how you can bring more of that. Self leadership into your life. Stay tuned.

Welcome back, my dear sister. I have a unique episode today. It’s something we’ve never talked about thus far in 363 episode of this podcast. It’s something that I’m spending more and more time thinking about and reflecting about, which is self-leadership. And I wanted to have this conversation style about self-leadership because it’s not something I can teach. It’s something we have to live and experience. So I wanted to bring someone to have this conversation with, and it’s one of my student, is someone that is a coach within UN dietary life, udemy Agua. We have been sharing our lives communally for over 12 years right now and we’re both evolving in the same direction. We’re both coaching in the same way, and we both have realized the power of self-leadership and our own life, and we see it day in and day out with the women we work with.

So I wanna bring you into that casual conversation around self-leadership. We’re gonna talk about what it is, how you can recognize it in your own life, and also the differences between self-leadership and responsibility, which actually one fuels the other. It’s not the same thing, but she cannot have one without the other. And Udemy’s gonna talk about self leadership in a perspective that I do not have, which is motherhood. Udemy is a mom of three girls that she is raising with her husband and how it plays a role in her motherhood. And it’s interesting because she talks about it as her daughter getting older. She’s got a daughter in a preteen and a daughter in teenage year, and how it literally creates the foundation of those young women becoming powerful women.

So I will let my team roll in the interview and I hope you enjoy it as much I enjoy having the conversation with Udemy.

Stephanie: Welcome back to the podcast. You, me.

Unyime: Thank you, Stephanie. I’m so glad to be here.

Stephanie: How many times has it been, I’m just realizing that I know we’ve done a top, a couple of dual episode that I had you on an interview. It’s been three or four times now, isn’t it? [Probably.] Yeah. And it’s interesting because we’ve known each other for, I don’t know, three or four years now, three years, two years, whatever. And every time I bring you into an interview to converse about something, there’s an evolution also in your personal life.

Stephanie: [Mm-hmm.] So let’s talk about that first and then we’ll move on to our topic of self leadership. But you’ve evolved recently in your business. I’m curious to know why and what happened there and walk us through this evolution.

Unyime: That’s a big question and it’s one that I keep asking myself because I feel like the past year has just been a lot of, filled with a lot of pain and unraveling and peeling off layers and just like sitting in a lot of discomfort that has pushed me to grow beyond what I thought was possible and I’m still growing, which I think that’s why I said that question is loaded, because when I started, when we met, I think we met 2020, probably sometime around there. And I remember just talking to you about this dream I had, aside from the food and body image, but really wanting to help moms you know, live their lives not in survival, but thriving. That has always been the central message of my work. And as I worked with women on food and body image, I found that there was always this question of what next? What next? Right? And the kind of coaching that we do in your program, it’s not what everyone else does. It’s very unique in the industry and I found my clients asking what next? And me being a little hesitant to help because my focus was, oh, I just do food and body image and then I help you with your children.

Unyime: So even though I knew that was a part of what I wanted to talk about, I wasn’t allowing myself to go there cuz I was really afraid of owning my expertise. I was afraid of owning the, all of the lessons that I’ve learned, all of the things that I have to give to women, not just moms. And I remember one of the coaching that you offered me when I said, I’m scared to be an expert in this space because of my identity as a black woman. And you coached me really hard. I remember that day I was like, fielded with so much like physical pain, just my body visually reacting to that coaching because I knew you were right, but I was really afraid and decided.

Stephanie: What did I say to you? Can’t even remember.

Unyime: You told me to own my expertise. Yeah. And I remember you saying, well, if not you, then who? And I was just like, oh my God, why would she say that? She knows all of the things, Cuz this is what we talk about in your program, like all of the systems and all of the conditioning that we’ve had. And this is an area of my life that I’ve really, I wouldn’t say run away from, but I thought I didn’t have the tools to deal with, so that coaching sent me on this path of just figuring out how do I wanna show up in this space and coaching for moms and women in general, but not doing what everyone else is doing and just teaching women how to show up and lead their lives because there’s more to life than just surviving. There’s more to life than always trying to figure out the next thing to fix myself. If we’re not fixing with food, if we’re not fixing our bodies, it’s what we wear. It’s our children, it’s our marriages, it’s work we’re trying to fix our coworkers. We’re always trying to fix. So that pushed me to get to this space where I thought, you know what? It’s the self-leadership. That’s what the women are looking for because when we start to think about self-leadership from the perspective of the coaching that we do in your program, we then recognize it’s not about control. It’s not about lording over people. It’s not about holding power. It’s about being very confident in yourself and trusting that who you are is enough. No matter where you show up, it’s always gonna be enough. And that’s all that matters.

Unyime: So that’s pretty much it in a nutshell. So now I do coach, I do general life coaching for women. I still have a deep heart for moms, and moms are most of my clients as well. But we talk about just navigating motherhood, their career and life without the burnout out.

Stephanie: That’s beautiful. So as you were working with people, you really lived through the experience of, it’s not about the food, it’s about something else.

Stephanie: And that’s something else you found was the way that women related to being their own leader?

Unyime: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. I found that, it’s so interesting because the women that I tend to attract are high achievers. [Mm-hmm.] They’re go-getters. They know for sure that. They’re not confused about wanting to chase more in life. Th those are not the kinds of women that I attract. The women I attract, they know they want more, but it’s all of the conditioning and all of the thoughts and beliefs around, well, what does this mean? Does this mean I don’t love my children? Does this mean I don’t care about my family? Do I not care about traditions and all of these things? So, I remember just noticing that in my clients and then I would do my best to help them out and they would still be like, well then what next? Then what next? And I thought, you know what? I’m gonna be the voice for this women. And it’s so interesting that I, over the past two years, because I’ve been focusing on my masters, which you are aware of, I’ve had a lot of them re resign. So I’ve not really had many new clients. I’ve just had a lot of repeat clients because we keep working and peeling layers of life around them. And I’m just, Seeing how they’re transforming, and it’s been such an honor for me to see that, and I’m really excited for what’s to come. Yeah.

Stephanie: That’s beautiful. So for people listening to this, it’s when we’re talking about resign or renewing, is we typically, because we do deep work in our style of coaching, right? We go beyond the food, we go to the real thing that requires deeper work. And it’s usually long term, like it’s not done over a month or two months, like this is six months minimum. And what she just said is that people work with her for six months and they keep wanting to work with her to go to the next layer and the next layer of self-discovery. [ Yeah.] That’s a beautiful testimonial to your work, by the way. [Thank you.] You know that, right? [ Yes.]

Stephanie: So let’s talk about self-leadership, because I’ve never really publicly expressed myself on that because I have some, what people consider radical ideology around self-leadership primarily because that’s the way I live my life. And I’ve always been in that mindset, I guess, of from a place of survival, first of like being my own leader, right? So because of multiple of reason, I’ve had to take ownership over my life and lead myself from a place of survival, and that has evolved over the last seven to eight years. But even though I’m evolving and I’m understanding all the socialization and the conditioning, and I’m learning to be more compassionate with myself and more gentle, even in that space, I believe in self-leadership. I’ve just redefined self leadership.

Stephanie: So for me, self leadership, I’ll let you talk in just a second here, but for me, self leadership is not about self-control, right? And that, that’s where the significant shift has happened is moving from being the leader of my life and taking full responsibility for myself and what’s happening in my world, but from a place of guiding myself instead of controlling myself. And, and, and I’d like to hear your thoughts around what it means to leading yourself, yeah, what are your thoughts?

Unyime: I like that. And something that you said about, it’s not about self-control. So for me, what my first experience with leadership came from when I was working in clinical trials and research. And I was the youngest on the management level. And so I remember our director then, she would tell me, she said, when we go into these meetings, I’m just gonna call on you to speak. And these were people who were in their forties, late forties, fifties, they were my mom’s age, and here I was, I think I was probably maybe 21, 22. And that filled me with a lot of fear. And again, thinking about my identity as a black woman in a company where nobody looked like me, nobody understood my experience, it put me in this place where leadership became a thing of power and control and wanting to show people like, this is my voice. You have to listen. But I knew that was not me naturally.

Unyime: So all of through my working career and even when I was in the mentorship doing the work that you taught us, that was always at the back of my mind where I thought, I know that I can be a good leader. However, the socialization and the conditioning that a lot of us as women have is what we see in patriarchy, is the men in the boardrooms, is the people commanding the atmosphere and lording it over other people. There has to be a better way, there has to be a better way, and I started just experimenting with what would that look like if women were able to just show up as leaders in their own way, what would that look like in the world? That would look like women really standing in their power and not being afraid? Because I find that there are a lot of women who know they have power, they have it, but we’ve been taught to look at power from a very negative light. We’ve been taught to look at power as commanding, as hurting people, as evil, like look at the movies, right? [Oppress oppression.] Exactly. The people who have powers, especially women. I always think about the movie, the Devil Wears Prada, and you see she’s such a powerful woman. However, she’s not the kindest person. She’s very strict, she’s very rash, and I thought, you know what? There has to be a better way. So what would it look like if we started to redefine what that looks like? Just like you said. That would look like thinking about owning whatever that power is and knowing that no matter how strong it is, you can be gentle with it if that’s the way you need it to be. And there are times when it would call on to be strong and commanding, perhaps going into a place where, that kind of thing is needed. But you can also turn it around and be gentle with your children and lead in your home as a mom. If you have a child who is a little bit more emotional, maybe a little bit more sensitive, how can you turn that power into something that feels warm and welcoming. And then you find yourself in rooms where, maybe they’re white men in suits who are speaking numbers, and saying all these things, and you can still carry those conversations and that is the work that I wanna do. I wanna be able to help women to know that you can work in all of those places and you don’t have to change. You just need to know how to understand the power that you hold and then know how to help use that power to relate, to bring better experiences to the people around you to help. Because I know a lot of us, we want to help. We want the world to be better and we can do that right? So that’s my understanding, is the self-leadership is all about owning that power that you have, being comfortable with it and knowing that no matter what, you can show up and you can use that power in good ways. It doesn’t have to hurt anyone. You just need to understand it and know how to use it when you need to.

Stephanie: Would you say it’s flexibility?

Unyime: I think there’s a lot of flexibility in that. I would say that for me, that has been my biggest lesson because like I said, when I started and I got into leadership, it was all about control and like rash, right? Yeah, yeah. But then I’m like, no, this is not, a leader is not micromanaging and it’s not all about management. It’s all about understanding the vision and knowing how to translate that vision to the people that you are working with, the people you’re engaging with. And that comes in our relationships, right? And then knowing how to surround yourself with systems and processes, maybe schedule or whatever you use tools to support you. And that you, understanding that whole system is what helps you to thrive in life.

Stephanie: Yeah, and the more, because it’s interesting when we talk about flexibility and management, because I was, for me, being in a corporate world for 15 years, I started at the tail end of being a manager, and by the end of my career it was about being a leader, right. Then you don’t lead the same way you manage. And I find that a paradigm into my relationship with myself because diet, culture, fat phobias about controlling the food, controlling the body, controlling your appearance. You can still example, I’ve just recently reappropriated a style of clothes that I loved. It was suits and it was like tailored clothes. But because in the past I’ve used these clothes to commend authority, right? I made it mean something so I completely walked away from that style of selection of clothes. But now I’m reappropriating it because it’s not about the clothes, it’s about the person in the clothes and not being a leader from a place of power, but from a place of leading myself and the people who wanna follow me.

Unyime: Oh, I love that so much. And it’s so interesting that you talked about the corporate clothes, cuz that was my experience this past year. So working through my own relationship with food and body and just understanding all of the things that were happening, a part of me thought, well, I need to be more feminine. I need to be more, you know, gravitate more towards like more feminine type clothes, the flowy dresses and flowers and all these things, and I’m not opposed to that, but that’s just not me. I remember being a child and just loving, wearing high heels and thinking about wearing my suits and just thinking like that would be the ideal way to dress for me. And I’ve had to do that work too in the past year, just going back to understanding how do I engage with these clothes in a way that it feels good for me, and also it’s not signifying who I used to be, that oppressive type leader. And it’s been a very interesting journey because as I’ve done that, I’ve also noticed, I know we’ve talked about this in the past, that I used to experience sciatic nerve pain. [Yeah.] And one of the reasons why I also was like, maybe it’s not for me to wear these clothes, was because I couldn’t wear heels anymore. So every time I wore heels, I would be in a lot of pain. I worked really hard to understand my pain. You also coached me on this. I remember when we were talking about it because I was in such a place where I thought, well, if my body’s not gonna support me and this pain is always gonna be here, there was a lot of anger about that and I had to work through that to come together and understand what my body was trying to tell me. And by doing that, I realized, it wasn’t even about the shoes. It wasn’t about the pain. It was more about my relationship with myself and could I lead myself in a way that I was flexible enough to understand when my body needed me to stop, when my body needed me to adjust. And I found over the past, I guess the past year I’ve gone back to wearing heels. I was telling my husband I felt so sad giving my heels away, and now I’ve had to buy new shoes because I don’t experience the pain anymore when I wear heels. Do I still have sciatic nerve pain? I think it’s still there. I haven’t felt it in the long time but I’m not like, I’m not attached to it. The pain is fine to come and to go as it pleases, and that’s okay.

Unyime: And then the other thing that you talked about was the management versus leadership. I think a lot of us, we confuse management. We think that is what leadership is about, but it’s not. For me, leadership is a lot more, I think, vision focused. It’s not stuck in the now and what we need to get done today to fix. It’s about what are we looking to do in the future? Right? Thinking about our self image, who do I want to be? That’s the vision I hold of myself and how do I get there, and what do I need to get there? What are the things I need to be doing daily? So the daily comes in with the self-management, but overall, we’re just leading ourselves towards this vision that we have. And for me and the work that I do, it’s all around thriving and eliminating burnouts.

Stephanie: When we’re talking about vision, that’s part of leadership is having the vision and we’ll bring that back to the individual woman level. Do you have, I’m just talking to the listener, do you have a vision for yourself of where you want to be be what society tells you what you should be. [Exactly.] Right, because most of us like are not even aware, and I think self leadership start with self-awareness, which allows you to look at your thoughts and your belief system and say, oh, I want to beat them because blah, blah, blah, blah. Do I really want to live my life in the pursuit of thinness? That means I’m gonna be on the diet for the rest of my life. Hell no. Okay. What do I want then? If I remove the obligation and the compliance, what do I want for my life? What vision do I have? [ Absolutely.] And in order to lead yourself, you need to know where you’re going. You need to know your objective.

Unyime: Yeah. Yeah. My friends always laugh cuz every time I’ll say, well, that person knows where they’re going. And they’ll giggle. They’ll say, no, I don’t think the person does because for me, like you said, women, we’ve been taught to do this, like this is the way life is. We’re taught that life is like a bento box. We have these little cute sections where things look perfect, and then we’re done with this square. We move to the next square and we do things perfectly there, and then we go to the next one. I remember one of my former colleagues had said to me once when I said I was gonna keep working after I had kids, And she said, you’re living your life backwards. And I said, what do you mean? She goes, well, people, people get married and then they have kids, and then the woman stays home and then when she’s done, she goes back to work. And I said, well, I don’t wanna do that. I don’t see myself being a stay-at-home mom. And she couldn’t understand it. And that was the moment where I recognized that for sure there are these unsaid rules about what women are supposed to do. And if you want to work outside of that, you’re gonna come against a lot of pushback and a lot of discomfort, and people will question you and people will ask.

Unyime: And this goes back to you talking about the vision. If you don’t have a vision about that, Then you’re gonna start questioning your own decisions. Well, maybe I don’t need to do that. Maybe it’s better for me to not do the thing that I want. Maybe I need to wait for my kids to get older. Maybe I need to wait till my husband gets a job. Maybe I need to wait until whatever the reason is. And then we get to this point where we just give up. We’re like, well, what’s the point? I’m already too old. I don’t have the skills anymore. I can’t understand anymore, so I can’t go back to school. And we then end up in this space where our lives are not feeling bright and joyful. And even though we lie to ourselves and say, I’m grateful, like we use gratitude as just like a blanket to be like, yeah, but I’m grateful. At least I’m better than other people. Are you though? Are you really?

Stephanie: Well, most people, I would say, I would venture to say the lack of self-awareness for me. Back, back years ago, I didn’t realize that I wasn’t happy. Like I didn’t know the upper limit, I dunno if it’s the upper limit, but I didn’t know what could be. Right. So I thought what was, was the happiness that one can create.

Unyime: Mm-hmm. But were you settled?

Stephanie: How many women are there that they just don’t know that something else is possible? Mm-hmm.

Unyime: But you’ll know though because you’ll have that longing

Stephanie: For me, I was so not hearing myself, that it came to, my body, shut me down [mm-hmm] because I wasn’t hearing. [Mm-hmm.] I wasn’t like, self awareness was very small, so my body screamed and screamed and at some point my body just shut me down.

Unyime: Yeah. Yeah. That’s the thing. We will, our bodies will always tell us, our bodies will always know if we’re not aware enough. It’s either things will start happening, your body’s gonna start showing you signals, and the more you don’t listen, it’ll just keep talking and talking and talking until it gets your attention.

Stephanie: Louder and louder and louder [yeah] over years [yep] until you have to listen, until it shuts you down to listen. So that’s why when I think about, for me, self-leadership versus self-management, because when you’re self-managed, you don’t need to listen. You just need to obey and comply. Right. So when you move into the world of leading your own life, you have to be aware of yourself, you have to listen to yourself. To me, that’s why it’s the ground, the first place to start. And I’d be curious to hear you talk about self-responsibility because to me, you cannot lead your life. You cannot be self-aware or you could, but then delegate the responsibility of what’s happening to you, to other people or anything outside of you. [Mm-hmm.] What are your thoughts on that? Self responsibility and self-leadership?

Unyime: I think they go hand in hand. Just like you, you said, when you come into the space of self-leadership, you can’t do that without being aware. And part of your awareness is that you’re gonna notice all the places where you’ve been delegating the authority to other people. And so the hard work, I say hard work here because it’s really hard, I find this with my clients, to take responsibility for the part that you’ve played in the life that you’ve created. And I know I, I am fully cognizant of all of the experiences that exist in the world and people’s, I don’t wanna minimize people’s lived experiences and the things that may be at war or opposed to them being able to express and fully live in their lives. I do recognize that, and I also think there’s space for us to take responsibility for the part that we have played in creating the life that we have. And I think self responsibility is such a big piece of the work if you really want to come and lead your life fully, because you will come against people you will come against things. You will come against experiences that will want to tell you otherwise. Right?

Unyime: So I’ll use myself as an example. When I decided to go back from my master’s, a lot of people asked me what I was looking for. Why? Why do you want to do this? You are already making all of this money, you have a beautiful family, things are good, there’s no reason to. But I remember that I do, there’s a part of me that loves public health so much, and I know the vision that I have. We’ve talked about this in our, in your program, the vision that I have to help women to help, especially single moms and widows and orphans, because that has been my experience and I know to get there, this is part of that work because I wanna be able to have conversations around health and wellness. I wanna be able to have conversations around policy and not just food, but what are all of the social determinants of health that impact the groups of people. That’s my vision. But these people don’t know that.

Unyime: And so it took me taking that responsibility to say, you know what? I know this is what I wanna create. I know it’s going to impact my family. Obviously I have a young family, my oldest is 11, she’s gonna be 12 soon. I had to take full responsibility to know that it’s gonna impact the way we engage. It’s gonna impact our eating, it’s gonna impact our schedule.

Unyime: So I never for once sat in this space where I was like, well, nobody’s helping me. I’m working so hard and they’re not understanding I’m going to school and doing these things. No, I had to remember. This is my vision. I am fully responsible for working and getting my master’s. However, I recognize that I’m also working full-time. I also, I’m married. I also have three children, so how do I want to engage in these other areas of my life so that I still go after my dream and it doesn’t feel like I’m pushing all of this away. And that came with a lot of having conversations with my husband, asking for help, engaging with my kids, really making sure that I took ownership of the way I planned my schedule, the way I planned my studying and the way I just planned engaging with my family differently.

Unyime: I’ll say one thing. Things like eating together became rare because while I’m studying and having meetings, my kids are doing other things. And then our schedules weren’t just jamming. And I told them, I said, be patient with me and now we’re fine, like we’re back to eating together. Things are good and the kids are so happy. Right? But I recognize that was the sacrifice I had to make because I took full responsibility for that.

Stephanie: I love that. So let me ask you this, because a lot of people, a lot of women, people in general, when they have, they’re a woman in a workplace, they’re a mom in a patriarchal society, they’re fat in a thin body, they’re black in a white country. People get stuck often, and it’s not fair, it should be otherwise Right. And that like, we’re starting as a country, as a system to make changes, but it’s nowhere near enough to eliminate all the oppression. It’s probably, my pragmatic views is probably not gonna be there for hundreds of years. So how we deal with the oppression, when I see people, when they become aware of system of oppression, they get stuck in, well, it’s not fair. So I’d keep curious to see for you, if you’re comfortable talking about that as a black person working in the white environment, how you deal with that.

Unyime: That’s such an interesting question, and I think I’m still evolving in this experience for me. And before I answer that, I just wanna say that for everyone listening, this is not about minimizing that feeling. I think it’s so important for us to recognize that your feeling is valid. It is welcome. It’s also helpful to notice where, what thought is feeding that feeling right? Some people will think that because of these things, it’s not fair. And then these other people that we think are the oppressors need to pay. So then what are you aiming for? Right? This, we live in a society that was created over hundreds and hundreds of years. So while things haven’t changed, I am with you as well, Stephanie. I think it’s gonna take longer than a lot of us think to achieve what we think we want. I don’t even know if we know what we want yet. Right? Because if we did, things will be a lot clearer, but we don’t, and I think we’re all evolving. We’re all learning because this is all new and that’s where I like to land. That’s where I like to sit in knowing that this is all new for everyone. It’s uncomfortable. It’s very uncomfortable for people on all of the sides. However, there are people like myself who are early adopters of this work of wanting to see the change. And so while I may feel in the beginning I did feel this is not fair, I had to channel that pain, that anger into, and then what? How do we change it? Because I think about my kids, I think about their kids, if they choose to have children. What is the world that I want them to live in and how do I start to build a foundation in my own little way? And for me at work that looks like, being very open, I’m not opposed to people asking me questions that they think are dumb. I’m very open to welcoming and recognizing that they might be speaking from their frame of reference, and that’s okay. I like to think that a lot of us are ignorant, including myself, because I know that they’re also places where I have blind spots. So I welcome that. I’m not opposed to that, and I don’t look down on people and think, well, you should know that already.

Unyime: I will say though, if you are someone who is not, and this is one of the things that I would, I tell my colleagues, you also have to do your work. [Yeah.] All of us have to do our work. You don’t expect the people who are termed, maybe the oppressed, I’m using this in quotes to do all the heavy lifting. You go and do your learning, I do my learning, and then we create a space where we have these conversations. I’m lucky enough to live or to work in an environment where we’re very diverse on our team, and I’ve been, because I’m in the leadership position, I’ve also used my experience and leverage my relationships to make sure that our team somewhat representative of the kind of workplace that we want. So that has been really beneficial because I do see my team members kind of feeling at home, and that’s what I think is helpful for each and every one of us, especially the women who are in leadership positions. I coach women in leadership positions and I remind them when I notice that they’re still living under patriarchy. I’ll tell you about a client I had, and her thing was she was afraid to take lunch because she works in this high value position and she’s allowed one hour lunch, so why aren’t you taking your lunch? Oh, something could happen. And we really challenged that thought. And then I brought in the man, I said, if a man was in this position, do you think he would skip his lunch because he’s afraid that something’s gonna happen in hour in an hour?

Unyime: So I really challenged her in that place because I knew as a leader, she has the power to change. And she is very into women empowerments, and I told her, you’re leading, you’re an example for the women who work in this space. So if you’re not taking your lunch, what do you think you’re teaching them? This is not just about you as much as it is. It’s also about the people who are looking up to you, whether or not you know. So you have to be thinking about it from that perspective. How do I create an environment with the power that I have so that the people who are coming after me, the people who are watching can see themselves and feel comfortable to open up and start bringing these sides of conversations that are somewhat uncomfortable and may rub people the wrong way, but they’re needed, they’re necessary.

Unyime: And I remember by the time we had ended our coaching relationship, she was taking her lunch. She was no longer working on the weekends, and she felt really good. And I said, well, now your colleagues get to learn from you because now they see you as a leader, as a woman who’s taking ownership over her time, her calendar, like people would just schedule her for meetings and she’d be running all over the place. Like no. We need to bring this sense of, again, self-leadership, taking responsibility for your calendar, responsibility for your time, having boundaries. When people see that, they respect that. [Right.] And that’s what I think for me, how I’ve been able to navigate. I’m still learning and sometimes I would, I wanna say it, it’s, it takes a lot. It takes a lot because we don’t want it to be this way, but again, we’re at the forefront of this movement where the world is changing and we’re recognizing how systems of oppression have somewhat not been beneficial or supported groups of people. So I also give myself space. My husband will tell you this, I have the heart of an activist. So there are times when I just wanna like take my torch and blah, and he’ll remind me, we know the vision, right? So how can I be gentle with ? When I feel that pain, when I see the things that are happening, how do I take time to take care of myself as well, right? Because, I still wanna be able to have the power and the strength in my body to carry on the work. And I think a lot of us can relate to this over the pandemic where people had, is it caregiver fatigue or whatever that thing was, Exactly. And we don’t want that for ourselves. So we also have to remember as much as we do the work to carve out time to take care of ourselves, to nurture that part of ourselves that still sometimes get impacted by what we’re feeling and what we’re seeing happen. Right? That is so important. Otherwise, we’re not gonna be able to carry on and do the work and make the change that we want.

Stephanie: Yeah, so a couple thoughts here. There’s a concept that I learned when I went to medical school, it was like com compartmentalizing, [mm-hmm] right? So for me, as in the size, the oppression of the size, there’s two worlds. There’s like how the world impacts me in my size and the size of the seat and the plan and all the things.

Stephanie: [Mm-hmm.] And then there’s how I make the suppression lived in my life. [Yeah.] I can make this oppression, anger, resentment, unfairness, and justice, and then consequently live the consequence of all those emotion but I have to put the work and defining when I’m tight in the seat how I experienced that. [Yeah.] So I had to create compartments to hold the activist part of me, but to hold how I lived through it. [Yeah] And it seemed that it’s the same for you, [yes] like there’s this separation of things, [Yes, absolutely] in order for you to live your best life. Because if you’re just angry all the time, well, it may, may have an impact on society, but globally, I mean billions of people, how much impact can your little life have? But it’s gonna make you miserable.

Unyime: Exactly. Exactly. Like you’ll see the change that you want from the anger, but also how does that impact you personally, and the relationships and the people around you, right?

Stephanie: Yeah. The quality of your own life. [Mm-hmm.] So if that can help anyone like that, compartmentalization for me has been a big thing and at the end of the day it’s a bit of selfishness. [Yeah.] How do I want my life to be? [Yep.] Do I want to be miserable and angry all the time? Or do I want to be happy and compassionate with myself? [Mm-hmm.] How do I want to show up in the world and how much. How you decide to deal with the injustice will impact how you lead other people through it. Your children in your case.

Unyime: Yeah. Yeah. I like that you brought up selfish because I think that’s kind of like a taboo word.

Stephanie: It is taboo cause it’s not politically correct.

Unyime: No, no, but, but there is an element of selfishness there because we have to think about our people. For me, it’s my children. For me, it’s my children, and we have these conversations as children who are black in mostly a white school. [Mm-hmm.] We’re kind of lucky that we live in an environment where it’s not just blacks and whites. We also have in indigenous and other ethnic groups, which has been helpful. But I think for us, the skin is the thing. It stands out. No one needs to hear you open your mouth. And we have these conversations with our kids where sometimes my husband loves to watch the news and we’ll watch the news and there are things happening and we have conversations around, well, it’s, just like you were saying, it’s unfair. My daughter, she’s a very, I can tell she’s an activist. Why it’s unfair they shouldn’t do that, and we have these conversations around, well, this is a system that we’re moving away from. We’re still seeing the impacts of that. However, how do we get to change things in our school?

Unyime: Right. You as children who go to your school and my daughter, she’s a very, I can tell right now that she’s very strong and powerful in her identity, which tends to rub people the wrong way. [Yes.] Teachers have talked to me about, you know, she kind spoke to me this way and this is this, and then we had a conversation around it, which I really appreciate that they were open to having that conversation with me.

Unyime: And I kind of explained to her teacher where sharp lived experience shows up. I think about my daughter being an adult and someone saying, oh, she’s the angry black woman. So this was my opportunity to teach the teacher that this is our lived experience. However, I’m also learning to help her find a good rhythm of when she can harness that power to support. She’s like, she’ll fight for her classmates. She doesn’t want people to get hurt. She doesn’t want to see injustice, and I have to teach her where to draw the line between this is your teacher’s environment. When you’re at school, your teacher is the boss. Right.

Stephanie: Or even how to deliver that message. [Exactly.]

Stephanie: Yeah. That she’s at that age where she’s learning how to deliver the message.

Unyime: Exactly. And it was so interesting cuz once I talked to her teacher about that, other teachers started to notice, so they’d be like, oh yeah, she’s such a great student, but this one thing. And then the teacher had to use that opportunity to teach them about, oh, this is their experience then that’s why this is happening. Yeah. So for me, I think that’s the work. Right. That’s the work. How do we bring this into a lived experience? Cuz yes, like you said, we’re still gonna go in places where people say things, her school people have said things, and we understand where those people are coming from. We also are compassionate towards them because maybe they don’t know any differently. But we’re not gonna let that stop us from showing up and being the light that we wanna be and living the lives that we wanna live. Right.

Stephanie: And I think that’s a perfect point to wrap it up because that’s self leadership. [Absolutely.] Being aware of the system, being aware how you are gonna respond to whatever’s expected of you, and then understanding your impact on other people and what your goal is, what is the best way of delivering to get people moving towards your vision. [Mm-hmm.] That’s leadership [Yeah], instead of telling people what to do [and micromanaging them.] Yeah, with the to-do lists. They still are there. To-do lists still exists. It’s how you’re like conveying the message around the to-do list.

Unyime: It’s the execution. I wanna, it’s the execution.

Stephanie: I’m sure there’s still a family calendar on the fridge and people have tasks to do, but it’s how you’re delivering the message of the tasks to do, or when they’re not done.

Unyime: Mm-hmm. How you handled that.

Stephanie: Yeah. Yeah. Do you have any parting words on this conversation?

Unyime: So, I think one thing I just wanna say is that self leadership is not something that a lot of us need to shy away from. The world is moving in a very different direction, and we’re getting into this era where we’re gonna start to see a lot of women stand up in their power. So it’s very helpful for us to recognize and understand what that looks like for us and choose a vision that works for us, not what has been defined by other people. And it’s okay for that to change. So for you, it’s a question of how do you want to show up? What is the vision that you have and what do you need to get there and what’s the support, right? So then you feel comfortable working towards that and trusting that everything that you need will kind of align as you start to move in that direction. And it might be hard, it might be challenging, but, I mean, we love hard work, let’s not lie, and let’s just like go with the flow.

Stephanie: Yeah. And is this a type of hard work. [Mm-hmm.] Like I like to say to women, instead of being on the treadmill for 50 minutes, doing 15,000 steps, the hard work becomes learning about your emotion and processing your emotion and learning about your thoughts. [Yeah] It’s just a different type of work. Work hard work. It’s not sweating and it doesn’t take 15 minutes. It’s just different.

Unyime: Yeah, absolutely.

Stephanie: So for, I’ll say this for most of us, I’ll wrap us up on this self leadership is not innate. Depending of our upbringing [mm-hmm] and what type of family environment we were in and so forth, this is a work that we need to do as women is learning to lead our life. And that’s what we both do in our own businesses, to help women lead themselves. [Yeah] That’s what coaching is really about. [Absolutely.] It’s a pleasure being with you again.

Unyime: Thank you, Stephanie. I really appreciate it.

 

Self-Leadership with Unyime Oguta

This is episode 362 of the going to be on the Food Show, and today we are chatting with one of my most often welcome guests on this podcast, OMI Agua, about self-leadership and how self-leadership has played such a vital role in both of our life. And we’re gonna share with you how you can bring more of that. Self leadership into your life. Stay tuned.

Welcome back, my dear sister. I have a unique episode today. It’s something we’ve never talked about thus far in 363 episode of this podcast. It’s something that I’m spending more and more time thinking about and reflecting about, which is self-leadership. And I wanted to have this conversation style about self-leadership because it’s not something I can teach. It’s something we have to live and experience. So I wanted to bring someone to have this conversation with, and it’s one of my student, is someone that is a coach within UN dietary life, udemy Agua. We have been sharing our lives communally for over 12 years right now and we’re both evolving in the same direction. We’re both coaching in the same way, and we both have realized the power of self-leadership and our own life, and we see it day in and day out with the women we work with.

So I wanna bring you into that casual conversation around self-leadership. We’re gonna talk about what it is, how you can recognize it in your own life, and also the differences between self-leadership and responsibility, which actually one fuels the other. It’s not the same thing, but she cannot have one without the other. And Udemy’s gonna talk about self leadership in a perspective that I do not have, which is motherhood. Udemy is a mom of three girls that she is raising with her husband and how it plays a role in her motherhood. And it’s interesting because she talks about it as her daughter getting older. She’s got a daughter in a preteen and a daughter in teenage year, and how it literally creates the foundation of those young women becoming powerful women.

So I will let my team roll in the interview and I hope you enjoy it as much I enjoy having the conversation with Udemy.

Stephanie: Welcome back to the podcast. You, me.

Unyime: Thank you, Stephanie. I’m so glad to be here.

Stephanie: How many times has it been, I’m just realizing that I know we’ve done a top, a couple of dual episode that I had you on an interview. It’s been three or four times now, isn’t it? [Probably.] Yeah. And it’s interesting because we’ve known each other for, I don’t know, three or four years now, three years, two years, whatever. And every time I bring you into an interview to converse about something, there’s an evolution also in your personal life.

Stephanie: [Mm-hmm.] So let’s talk about that first and then we’ll move on to our topic of self leadership. But you’ve evolved recently in your business. I’m curious to know why and what happened there and walk us through this evolution.

Unyime: That’s a big question and it’s one that I keep asking myself because I feel like the past year has just been a lot of, filled with a lot of pain and unraveling and peeling off layers and just like sitting in a lot of discomfort that has pushed me to grow beyond what I thought was possible and I’m still growing, which I think that’s why I said that question is loaded, because when I started, when we met, I think we met 2020, probably sometime around there. And I remember just talking to you about this dream I had, aside from the food and body image, but really wanting to help moms you know, live their lives not in survival, but thriving. That has always been the central message of my work. And as I worked with women on food and body image, I found that there was always this question of what next? What next? Right? And the kind of coaching that we do in your program, it’s not what everyone else does. It’s very unique in the industry and I found my clients asking what next? And me being a little hesitant to help because my focus was, oh, I just do food and body image and then I help you with your children.

Unyime: So even though I knew that was a part of what I wanted to talk about, I wasn’t allowing myself to go there cuz I was really afraid of owning my expertise. I was afraid of owning the, all of the lessons that I’ve learned, all of the things that I have to give to women, not just moms. And I remember one of the coaching that you offered me when I said, I’m scared to be an expert in this space because of my identity as a black woman. And you coached me really hard. I remember that day I was like, fielded with so much like physical pain, just my body visually reacting to that coaching because I knew you were right, but I was really afraid and decided.

Stephanie: What did I say to you? Can’t even remember.

Unyime: You told me to own my expertise. Yeah. And I remember you saying, well, if not you, then who? And I was just like, oh my God, why would she say that? She knows all of the things, Cuz this is what we talk about in your program, like all of the systems and all of the conditioning that we’ve had. And this is an area of my life that I’ve really, I wouldn’t say run away from, but I thought I didn’t have the tools to deal with, so that coaching sent me on this path of just figuring out how do I wanna show up in this space and coaching for moms and women in general, but not doing what everyone else is doing and just teaching women how to show up and lead their lives because there’s more to life than just surviving. There’s more to life than always trying to figure out the next thing to fix myself. If we’re not fixing with food, if we’re not fixing our bodies, it’s what we wear. It’s our children, it’s our marriages, it’s work we’re trying to fix our coworkers. We’re always trying to fix. So that pushed me to get to this space where I thought, you know what? It’s the self-leadership. That’s what the women are looking for because when we start to think about self-leadership from the perspective of the coaching that we do in your program, we then recognize it’s not about control. It’s not about lording over people. It’s not about holding power. It’s about being very confident in yourself and trusting that who you are is enough. No matter where you show up, it’s always gonna be enough. And that’s all that matters.

Unyime: So that’s pretty much it in a nutshell. So now I do coach, I do general life coaching for women. I still have a deep heart for moms, and moms are most of my clients as well. But we talk about just navigating motherhood, their career and life without the burnout out.

Stephanie: That’s beautiful. So as you were working with people, you really lived through the experience of, it’s not about the food, it’s about something else.

Stephanie: And that’s something else you found was the way that women related to being their own leader?

Unyime: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. I found that, it’s so interesting because the women that I tend to attract are high achievers. [Mm-hmm.] They’re go-getters. They know for sure that. They’re not confused about wanting to chase more in life. Th those are not the kinds of women that I attract. The women I attract, they know they want more, but it’s all of the conditioning and all of the thoughts and beliefs around, well, what does this mean? Does this mean I don’t love my children? Does this mean I don’t care about my family? Do I not care about traditions and all of these things? So, I remember just noticing that in my clients and then I would do my best to help them out and they would still be like, well then what next? Then what next? And I thought, you know what? I’m gonna be the voice for this women. And it’s so interesting that I, over the past two years, because I’ve been focusing on my masters, which you are aware of, I’ve had a lot of them re resign. So I’ve not really had many new clients. I’ve just had a lot of repeat clients because we keep working and peeling layers of life around them. And I’m just, Seeing how they’re transforming, and it’s been such an honor for me to see that, and I’m really excited for what’s to come. Yeah.

Stephanie: That’s beautiful. So for people listening to this, it’s when we’re talking about resign or renewing, is we typically, because we do deep work in our style of coaching, right? We go beyond the food, we go to the real thing that requires deeper work. And it’s usually long term, like it’s not done over a month or two months, like this is six months minimum. And what she just said is that people work with her for six months and they keep wanting to work with her to go to the next layer and the next layer of self-discovery. [ Yeah.] That’s a beautiful testimonial to your work, by the way. [Thank you.] You know that, right? [ Yes.]

Stephanie: So let’s talk about self-leadership, because I’ve never really publicly expressed myself on that because I have some, what people consider radical ideology around self-leadership primarily because that’s the way I live my life. And I’ve always been in that mindset, I guess, of from a place of survival, first of like being my own leader, right? So because of multiple of reason, I’ve had to take ownership over my life and lead myself from a place of survival, and that has evolved over the last seven to eight years. But even though I’m evolving and I’m understanding all the socialization and the conditioning, and I’m learning to be more compassionate with myself and more gentle, even in that space, I believe in self-leadership. I’ve just redefined self leadership.

Stephanie: So for me, self leadership, I’ll let you talk in just a second here, but for me, self leadership is not about self-control, right? And that, that’s where the significant shift has happened is moving from being the leader of my life and taking full responsibility for myself and what’s happening in my world, but from a place of guiding myself instead of controlling myself. And, and, and I’d like to hear your thoughts around what it means to leading yourself, yeah, what are your thoughts?

Unyime: I like that. And something that you said about, it’s not about self-control. So for me, what my first experience with leadership came from when I was working in clinical trials and research. And I was the youngest on the management level. And so I remember our director then, she would tell me, she said, when we go into these meetings, I’m just gonna call on you to speak. And these were people who were in their forties, late forties, fifties, they were my mom’s age, and here I was, I think I was probably maybe 21, 22. And that filled me with a lot of fear. And again, thinking about my identity as a black woman in a company where nobody looked like me, nobody understood my experience, it put me in this place where leadership became a thing of power and control and wanting to show people like, this is my voice. You have to listen. But I knew that was not me naturally.

Unyime: So all of through my working career and even when I was in the mentorship doing the work that you taught us, that was always at the back of my mind where I thought, I know that I can be a good leader. However, the socialization and the conditioning that a lot of us as women have is what we see in patriarchy, is the men in the boardrooms, is the people commanding the atmosphere and lording it over other people. There has to be a better way, there has to be a better way, and I started just experimenting with what would that look like if women were able to just show up as leaders in their own way, what would that look like in the world? That would look like women really standing in their power and not being afraid? Because I find that there are a lot of women who know they have power, they have it, but we’ve been taught to look at power from a very negative light. We’ve been taught to look at power as commanding, as hurting people, as evil, like look at the movies, right? [Oppress oppression.] Exactly. The people who have powers, especially women. I always think about the movie, the Devil Wears Prada, and you see she’s such a powerful woman. However, she’s not the kindest person. She’s very strict, she’s very rash, and I thought, you know what? There has to be a better way. So what would it look like if we started to redefine what that looks like? Just like you said. That would look like thinking about owning whatever that power is and knowing that no matter how strong it is, you can be gentle with it if that’s the way you need it to be. And there are times when it would call on to be strong and commanding, perhaps going into a place where, that kind of thing is needed. But you can also turn it around and be gentle with your children and lead in your home as a mom. If you have a child who is a little bit more emotional, maybe a little bit more sensitive, how can you turn that power into something that feels warm and welcoming. And then you find yourself in rooms where, maybe they’re white men in suits who are speaking numbers, and saying all these things, and you can still carry those conversations and that is the work that I wanna do. I wanna be able to help women to know that you can work in all of those places and you don’t have to change. You just need to know how to understand the power that you hold and then know how to help use that power to relate, to bring better experiences to the people around you to help. Because I know a lot of us, we want to help. We want the world to be better and we can do that right? So that’s my understanding, is the self-leadership is all about owning that power that you have, being comfortable with it and knowing that no matter what, you can show up and you can use that power in good ways. It doesn’t have to hurt anyone. You just need to understand it and know how to use it when you need to.

Stephanie: Would you say it’s flexibility?

Unyime: I think there’s a lot of flexibility in that. I would say that for me, that has been my biggest lesson because like I said, when I started and I got into leadership, it was all about control and like rash, right? Yeah, yeah. But then I’m like, no, this is not, a leader is not micromanaging and it’s not all about management. It’s all about understanding the vision and knowing how to translate that vision to the people that you are working with, the people you’re engaging with. And that comes in our relationships, right? And then knowing how to surround yourself with systems and processes, maybe schedule or whatever you use tools to support you. And that you, understanding that whole system is what helps you to thrive in life.

Stephanie: Yeah, and the more, because it’s interesting when we talk about flexibility and management, because I was, for me, being in a corporate world for 15 years, I started at the tail end of being a manager, and by the end of my career it was about being a leader, right. Then you don’t lead the same way you manage. And I find that a paradigm into my relationship with myself because diet, culture, fat phobias about controlling the food, controlling the body, controlling your appearance. You can still example, I’ve just recently reappropriated a style of clothes that I loved. It was suits and it was like tailored clothes. But because in the past I’ve used these clothes to commend authority, right? I made it mean something so I completely walked away from that style of selection of clothes. But now I’m reappropriating it because it’s not about the clothes, it’s about the person in the clothes and not being a leader from a place of power, but from a place of leading myself and the people who wanna follow me.

Unyime: Oh, I love that so much. And it’s so interesting that you talked about the corporate clothes, cuz that was my experience this past year. So working through my own relationship with food and body and just understanding all of the things that were happening, a part of me thought, well, I need to be more feminine. I need to be more, you know, gravitate more towards like more feminine type clothes, the flowy dresses and flowers and all these things, and I’m not opposed to that, but that’s just not me. I remember being a child and just loving, wearing high heels and thinking about wearing my suits and just thinking like that would be the ideal way to dress for me. And I’ve had to do that work too in the past year, just going back to understanding how do I engage with these clothes in a way that it feels good for me, and also it’s not signifying who I used to be, that oppressive type leader. And it’s been a very interesting journey because as I’ve done that, I’ve also noticed, I know we’ve talked about this in the past, that I used to experience sciatic nerve pain. [Yeah.] And one of the reasons why I also was like, maybe it’s not for me to wear these clothes, was because I couldn’t wear heels anymore. So every time I wore heels, I would be in a lot of pain. I worked really hard to understand my pain. You also coached me on this. I remember when we were talking about it because I was in such a place where I thought, well, if my body’s not gonna support me and this pain is always gonna be here, there was a lot of anger about that and I had to work through that to come together and understand what my body was trying to tell me. And by doing that, I realized, it wasn’t even about the shoes. It wasn’t about the pain. It was more about my relationship with myself and could I lead myself in a way that I was flexible enough to understand when my body needed me to stop, when my body needed me to adjust. And I found over the past, I guess the past year I’ve gone back to wearing heels. I was telling my husband I felt so sad giving my heels away, and now I’ve had to buy new shoes because I don’t experience the pain anymore when I wear heels. Do I still have sciatic nerve pain? I think it’s still there. I haven’t felt it in the long time but I’m not like, I’m not attached to it. The pain is fine to come and to go as it pleases, and that’s okay.

Unyime: And then the other thing that you talked about was the management versus leadership. I think a lot of us, we confuse management. We think that is what leadership is about, but it’s not. For me, leadership is a lot more, I think, vision focused. It’s not stuck in the now and what we need to get done today to fix. It’s about what are we looking to do in the future? Right? Thinking about our self image, who do I want to be? That’s the vision I hold of myself and how do I get there, and what do I need to get there? What are the things I need to be doing daily? So the daily comes in with the self-management, but overall, we’re just leading ourselves towards this vision that we have. And for me and the work that I do, it’s all around thriving and eliminating burnouts.

Stephanie: When we’re talking about vision, that’s part of leadership is having the vision and we’ll bring that back to the individual woman level. Do you have, I’m just talking to the listener, do you have a vision for yourself of where you want to be be what society tells you what you should be. [Exactly.] Right, because most of us like are not even aware, and I think self leadership start with self-awareness, which allows you to look at your thoughts and your belief system and say, oh, I want to beat them because blah, blah, blah, blah. Do I really want to live my life in the pursuit of thinness? That means I’m gonna be on the diet for the rest of my life. Hell no. Okay. What do I want then? If I remove the obligation and the compliance, what do I want for my life? What vision do I have? [ Absolutely.] And in order to lead yourself, you need to know where you’re going. You need to know your objective.

Unyime: Yeah. Yeah. My friends always laugh cuz every time I’ll say, well, that person knows where they’re going. And they’ll giggle. They’ll say, no, I don’t think the person does because for me, like you said, women, we’ve been taught to do this, like this is the way life is. We’re taught that life is like a bento box. We have these little cute sections where things look perfect, and then we’re done with this square. We move to the next square and we do things perfectly there, and then we go to the next one. I remember one of my former colleagues had said to me once when I said I was gonna keep working after I had kids, And she said, you’re living your life backwards. And I said, what do you mean? She goes, well, people, people get married and then they have kids, and then the woman stays home and then when she’s done, she goes back to work. And I said, well, I don’t wanna do that. I don’t see myself being a stay-at-home mom. And she couldn’t understand it. And that was the moment where I recognized that for sure there are these unsaid rules about what women are supposed to do. And if you want to work outside of that, you’re gonna come against a lot of pushback and a lot of discomfort, and people will question you and people will ask.

Unyime: And this goes back to you talking about the vision. If you don’t have a vision about that, Then you’re gonna start questioning your own decisions. Well, maybe I don’t need to do that. Maybe it’s better for me to not do the thing that I want. Maybe I need to wait for my kids to get older. Maybe I need to wait till my husband gets a job. Maybe I need to wait until whatever the reason is. And then we get to this point where we just give up. We’re like, well, what’s the point? I’m already too old. I don’t have the skills anymore. I can’t understand anymore, so I can’t go back to school. And we then end up in this space where our lives are not feeling bright and joyful. And even though we lie to ourselves and say, I’m grateful, like we use gratitude as just like a blanket to be like, yeah, but I’m grateful. At least I’m better than other people. Are you though? Are you really?

Stephanie: Well, most people, I would say, I would venture to say the lack of self-awareness for me. Back, back years ago, I didn’t realize that I wasn’t happy. Like I didn’t know the upper limit, I dunno if it’s the upper limit, but I didn’t know what could be. Right. So I thought what was, was the happiness that one can create.

Unyime: Mm-hmm. But were you settled?

Stephanie: How many women are there that they just don’t know that something else is possible? Mm-hmm.

Unyime: But you’ll know though because you’ll have that longing

Stephanie: For me, I was so not hearing myself, that it came to, my body, shut me down [mm-hmm] because I wasn’t hearing. [Mm-hmm.] I wasn’t like, self awareness was very small, so my body screamed and screamed and at some point my body just shut me down.

Unyime: Yeah. Yeah. That’s the thing. We will, our bodies will always tell us, our bodies will always know if we’re not aware enough. It’s either things will start happening, your body’s gonna start showing you signals, and the more you don’t listen, it’ll just keep talking and talking and talking until it gets your attention.

Stephanie: Louder and louder and louder [yeah] over years [yep] until you have to listen, until it shuts you down to listen. So that’s why when I think about, for me, self-leadership versus self-management, because when you’re self-managed, you don’t need to listen. You just need to obey and comply. Right. So when you move into the world of leading your own life, you have to be aware of yourself, you have to listen to yourself. To me, that’s why it’s the ground, the first place to start. And I’d be curious to hear you talk about self-responsibility because to me, you cannot lead your life. You cannot be self-aware or you could, but then delegate the responsibility of what’s happening to you, to other people or anything outside of you. [Mm-hmm.] What are your thoughts on that? Self responsibility and self-leadership?

Unyime: I think they go hand in hand. Just like you, you said, when you come into the space of self-leadership, you can’t do that without being aware. And part of your awareness is that you’re gonna notice all the places where you’ve been delegating the authority to other people. And so the hard work, I say hard work here because it’s really hard, I find this with my clients, to take responsibility for the part that you’ve played in the life that you’ve created. And I know I, I am fully cognizant of all of the experiences that exist in the world and people’s, I don’t wanna minimize people’s lived experiences and the things that may be at war or opposed to them being able to express and fully live in their lives. I do recognize that, and I also think there’s space for us to take responsibility for the part that we have played in creating the life that we have. And I think self responsibility is such a big piece of the work if you really want to come and lead your life fully, because you will come against people you will come against things. You will come against experiences that will want to tell you otherwise. Right?

Unyime: So I’ll use myself as an example. When I decided to go back from my master’s, a lot of people asked me what I was looking for. Why? Why do you want to do this? You are already making all of this money, you have a beautiful family, things are good, there’s no reason to. But I remember that I do, there’s a part of me that loves public health so much, and I know the vision that I have. We’ve talked about this in our, in your program, the vision that I have to help women to help, especially single moms and widows and orphans, because that has been my experience and I know to get there, this is part of that work because I wanna be able to have conversations around health and wellness. I wanna be able to have conversations around policy and not just food, but what are all of the social determinants of health that impact the groups of people. That’s my vision. But these people don’t know that.

Unyime: And so it took me taking that responsibility to say, you know what? I know this is what I wanna create. I know it’s going to impact my family. Obviously I have a young family, my oldest is 11, she’s gonna be 12 soon. I had to take full responsibility to know that it’s gonna impact the way we engage. It’s gonna impact our eating, it’s gonna impact our schedule.

Unyime: So I never for once sat in this space where I was like, well, nobody’s helping me. I’m working so hard and they’re not understanding I’m going to school and doing these things. No, I had to remember. This is my vision. I am fully responsible for working and getting my master’s. However, I recognize that I’m also working full-time. I also, I’m married. I also have three children, so how do I want to engage in these other areas of my life so that I still go after my dream and it doesn’t feel like I’m pushing all of this away. And that came with a lot of having conversations with my husband, asking for help, engaging with my kids, really making sure that I took ownership of the way I planned my schedule, the way I planned my studying and the way I just planned engaging with my family differently.

Unyime: I’ll say one thing. Things like eating together became rare because while I’m studying and having meetings, my kids are doing other things. And then our schedules weren’t just jamming. And I told them, I said, be patient with me and now we’re fine, like we’re back to eating together. Things are good and the kids are so happy. Right? But I recognize that was the sacrifice I had to make because I took full responsibility for that.

Stephanie: I love that. So let me ask you this, because a lot of people, a lot of women, people in general, when they have, they’re a woman in a workplace, they’re a mom in a patriarchal society, they’re fat in a thin body, they’re black in a white country. People get stuck often, and it’s not fair, it should be otherwise Right. And that like, we’re starting as a country, as a system to make changes, but it’s nowhere near enough to eliminate all the oppression. It’s probably, my pragmatic views is probably not gonna be there for hundreds of years. So how we deal with the oppression, when I see people, when they become aware of system of oppression, they get stuck in, well, it’s not fair. So I’d keep curious to see for you, if you’re comfortable talking about that as a black person working in the white environment, how you deal with that.

Unyime: That’s such an interesting question, and I think I’m still evolving in this experience for me. And before I answer that, I just wanna say that for everyone listening, this is not about minimizing that feeling. I think it’s so important for us to recognize that your feeling is valid. It is welcome. It’s also helpful to notice where, what thought is feeding that feeling right? Some people will think that because of these things, it’s not fair. And then these other people that we think are the oppressors need to pay. So then what are you aiming for? Right? This, we live in a society that was created over hundreds and hundreds of years. So while things haven’t changed, I am with you as well, Stephanie. I think it’s gonna take longer than a lot of us think to achieve what we think we want. I don’t even know if we know what we want yet. Right? Because if we did, things will be a lot clearer, but we don’t, and I think we’re all evolving. We’re all learning because this is all new and that’s where I like to land. That’s where I like to sit in knowing that this is all new for everyone. It’s uncomfortable. It’s very uncomfortable for people on all of the sides. However, there are people like myself who are early adopters of this work of wanting to see the change. And so while I may feel in the beginning I did feel this is not fair, I had to channel that pain, that anger into, and then what? How do we change it? Because I think about my kids, I think about their kids, if they choose to have children. What is the world that I want them to live in and how do I start to build a foundation in my own little way? And for me at work that looks like, being very open, I’m not opposed to people asking me questions that they think are dumb. I’m very open to welcoming and recognizing that they might be speaking from their frame of reference, and that’s okay. I like to think that a lot of us are ignorant, including myself, because I know that they’re also places where I have blind spots. So I welcome that. I’m not opposed to that, and I don’t look down on people and think, well, you should know that already.

Unyime: I will say though, if you are someone who is not, and this is one of the things that I would, I tell my colleagues, you also have to do your work. [Yeah.] All of us have to do our work. You don’t expect the people who are termed, maybe the oppressed, I’m using this in quotes to do all the heavy lifting. You go and do your learning, I do my learning, and then we create a space where we have these conversations. I’m lucky enough to live or to work in an environment where we’re very diverse on our team, and I’ve been, because I’m in the leadership position, I’ve also used my experience and leverage my relationships to make sure that our team somewhat representative of the kind of workplace that we want. So that has been really beneficial because I do see my team members kind of feeling at home, and that’s what I think is helpful for each and every one of us, especially the women who are in leadership positions. I coach women in leadership positions and I remind them when I notice that they’re still living under patriarchy. I’ll tell you about a client I had, and her thing was she was afraid to take lunch because she works in this high value position and she’s allowed one hour lunch, so why aren’t you taking your lunch? Oh, something could happen. And we really challenged that thought. And then I brought in the man, I said, if a man was in this position, do you think he would skip his lunch because he’s afraid that something’s gonna happen in hour in an hour?

Unyime: So I really challenged her in that place because I knew as a leader, she has the power to change. And she is very into women empowerments, and I told her, you’re leading, you’re an example for the women who work in this space. So if you’re not taking your lunch, what do you think you’re teaching them? This is not just about you as much as it is. It’s also about the people who are looking up to you, whether or not you know. So you have to be thinking about it from that perspective. How do I create an environment with the power that I have so that the people who are coming after me, the people who are watching can see themselves and feel comfortable to open up and start bringing these sides of conversations that are somewhat uncomfortable and may rub people the wrong way, but they’re needed, they’re necessary.

Unyime: And I remember by the time we had ended our coaching relationship, she was taking her lunch. She was no longer working on the weekends, and she felt really good. And I said, well, now your colleagues get to learn from you because now they see you as a leader, as a woman who’s taking ownership over her time, her calendar, like people would just schedule her for meetings and she’d be running all over the place. Like no. We need to bring this sense of, again, self-leadership, taking responsibility for your calendar, responsibility for your time, having boundaries. When people see that, they respect that. [Right.] And that’s what I think for me, how I’ve been able to navigate. I’m still learning and sometimes I would, I wanna say it, it’s, it takes a lot. It takes a lot because we don’t want it to be this way, but again, we’re at the forefront of this movement where the world is changing and we’re recognizing how systems of oppression have somewhat not been beneficial or supported groups of people. So I also give myself space. My husband will tell you this, I have the heart of an activist. So there are times when I just wanna like take my torch and blah, and he’ll remind me, we know the vision, right? So how can I be gentle with ? When I feel that pain, when I see the things that are happening, how do I take time to take care of myself as well, right? Because, I still wanna be able to have the power and the strength in my body to carry on the work. And I think a lot of us can relate to this over the pandemic where people had, is it caregiver fatigue or whatever that thing was, Exactly. And we don’t want that for ourselves. So we also have to remember as much as we do the work to carve out time to take care of ourselves, to nurture that part of ourselves that still sometimes get impacted by what we’re feeling and what we’re seeing happen. Right? That is so important. Otherwise, we’re not gonna be able to carry on and do the work and make the change that we want.

Stephanie: Yeah, so a couple thoughts here. There’s a concept that I learned when I went to medical school, it was like com compartmentalizing, [mm-hmm] right? So for me, as in the size, the oppression of the size, there’s two worlds. There’s like how the world impacts me in my size and the size of the seat and the plan and all the things.

Stephanie: [Mm-hmm.] And then there’s how I make the suppression lived in my life. [Yeah.] I can make this oppression, anger, resentment, unfairness, and justice, and then consequently live the consequence of all those emotion but I have to put the work and defining when I’m tight in the seat how I experienced that. [Yeah.] So I had to create compartments to hold the activist part of me, but to hold how I lived through it. [Yeah] And it seemed that it’s the same for you, [yes] like there’s this separation of things, [Yes, absolutely] in order for you to live your best life. Because if you’re just angry all the time, well, it may, may have an impact on society, but globally, I mean billions of people, how much impact can your little life have? But it’s gonna make you miserable.

Unyime: Exactly. Exactly. Like you’ll see the change that you want from the anger, but also how does that impact you personally, and the relationships and the people around you, right?

Stephanie: Yeah. The quality of your own life. [Mm-hmm.] So if that can help anyone like that, compartmentalization for me has been a big thing and at the end of the day it’s a bit of selfishness. [Yeah.] How do I want my life to be? [Yep.] Do I want to be miserable and angry all the time? Or do I want to be happy and compassionate with myself? [Mm-hmm.] How do I want to show up in the world and how much. How you decide to deal with the injustice will impact how you lead other people through it. Your children in your case.

Unyime: Yeah. Yeah. I like that you brought up selfish because I think that’s kind of like a taboo word.

Stephanie: It is taboo cause it’s not politically correct.

Unyime: No, no, but, but there is an element of selfishness there because we have to think about our people. For me, it’s my children. For me, it’s my children, and we have these conversations as children who are black in mostly a white school. [Mm-hmm.] We’re kind of lucky that we live in an environment where it’s not just blacks and whites. We also have in indigenous and other ethnic groups, which has been helpful. But I think for us, the skin is the thing. It stands out. No one needs to hear you open your mouth. And we have these conversations with our kids where sometimes my husband loves to watch the news and we’ll watch the news and there are things happening and we have conversations around, well, it’s, just like you were saying, it’s unfair. My daughter, she’s a very, I can tell she’s an activist. Why it’s unfair they shouldn’t do that, and we have these conversations around, well, this is a system that we’re moving away from. We’re still seeing the impacts of that. However, how do we get to change things in our school?

Unyime: Right. You as children who go to your school and my daughter, she’s a very, I can tell right now that she’s very strong and powerful in her identity, which tends to rub people the wrong way. [Yes.] Teachers have talked to me about, you know, she kind spoke to me this way and this is this, and then we had a conversation around it, which I really appreciate that they were open to having that conversation with me.

Unyime: And I kind of explained to her teacher where sharp lived experience shows up. I think about my daughter being an adult and someone saying, oh, she’s the angry black woman. So this was my opportunity to teach the teacher that this is our lived experience. However, I’m also learning to help her find a good rhythm of when she can harness that power to support. She’s like, she’ll fight for her classmates. She doesn’t want people to get hurt. She doesn’t want to see injustice, and I have to teach her where to draw the line between this is your teacher’s environment. When you’re at school, your teacher is the boss. Right.

Stephanie: Or even how to deliver that message. [Exactly.]

Stephanie: Yeah. That she’s at that age where she’s learning how to deliver the message.

Unyime: Exactly. And it was so interesting cuz once I talked to her teacher about that, other teachers started to notice, so they’d be like, oh yeah, she’s such a great student, but this one thing. And then the teacher had to use that opportunity to teach them about, oh, this is their experience then that’s why this is happening. Yeah. So for me, I think that’s the work. Right. That’s the work. How do we bring this into a lived experience? Cuz yes, like you said, we’re still gonna go in places where people say things, her school people have said things, and we understand where those people are coming from. We also are compassionate towards them because maybe they don’t know any differently. But we’re not gonna let that stop us from showing up and being the light that we wanna be and living the lives that we wanna live. Right.

Stephanie: And I think that’s a perfect point to wrap it up because that’s self leadership. [Absolutely.] Being aware of the system, being aware how you are gonna respond to whatever’s expected of you, and then understanding your impact on other people and what your goal is, what is the best way of delivering to get people moving towards your vision. [Mm-hmm.] That’s leadership [Yeah], instead of telling people what to do [and micromanaging them.] Yeah, with the to-do lists. They still are there. To-do lists still exists. It’s how you’re like conveying the message around the to-do list.

Unyime: It’s the execution. I wanna, it’s the execution.

Stephanie: I’m sure there’s still a family calendar on the fridge and people have tasks to do, but it’s how you’re delivering the message of the tasks to do, or when they’re not done.

Unyime: Mm-hmm. How you handled that.

Stephanie: Yeah. Yeah. Do you have any parting words on this conversation?

Unyime: So, I think one thing I just wanna say is that self leadership is not something that a lot of us need to shy away from. The world is moving in a very different direction, and we’re getting into this era where we’re gonna start to see a lot of women stand up in their power. So it’s very helpful for us to recognize and understand what that looks like for us and choose a vision that works for us, not what has been defined by other people. And it’s okay for that to change. So for you, it’s a question of how do you want to show up? What is the vision that you have and what do you need to get there and what’s the support, right? So then you feel comfortable working towards that and trusting that everything that you need will kind of align as you start to move in that direction. And it might be hard, it might be challenging, but, I mean, we love hard work, let’s not lie, and let’s just like go with the flow.

Stephanie: Yeah. And is this a type of hard work. [Mm-hmm.] Like I like to say to women, instead of being on the treadmill for 50 minutes, doing 15,000 steps, the hard work becomes learning about your emotion and processing your emotion and learning about your thoughts. [Yeah] It’s just a different type of work. Work hard work. It’s not sweating and it doesn’t take 15 minutes. It’s just different.

Unyime: Yeah, absolutely.

Stephanie: So for, I’ll say this for most of us, I’ll wrap us up on this self leadership is not innate. Depending of our upbringing [mm-hmm] and what type of family environment we were in and so forth, this is a work that we need to do as women is learning to lead our life. And that’s what we both do in our own businesses, to help women lead themselves. [Yeah] That’s what coaching is really about. [Absolutely.] It’s a pleasure being with you again.

Unyime: Thank you, Stephanie. I really appreciate it.

 

read more
361-Wellness Culture with Christy Harrison author of the Wellness Trap

361-Wellness Culture with Christy Harrison author of the Wellness Trap

Wellness Culture with Christy Harrison

Wellness Culture

Wellness Culture with Christy Harrison author of the Wellness trap. 

You know diet culture…but do you know it has a cousin – Wellness Culture?

Thank you to my co-host Joni O’Donell for leading this interview in a way that will best serve you the listener. You can find out more about Joni on her website https://joniodonnell.com/.

What you’ll learn listening to this episode:

  • What is wellness culture and why it’s problematic
  • The harm that wellness culture causes
  • The SIFT method to not fall prey to wellness culture claims
  • Why individual responsibility isn’t the long term solution to our well being
  • If not wellness then what? Well being perhaps

Mentioned in the show: 

Cohost: Joni O’Donnell website

The Wellness Trap Book

Health Habits Checklist

Rebellious Eating Solution Webinar

Quiz: Is it you or your diet?

Undiet Your Life Program

Non-Diet Coaching Certification

Connect with our guest:

Website – Christy Harrison

Instagram – Christy Harrison

Facebook – Christy Harrison

Transcript

Going Beyond The Food Show Ep361 – 361-Wellness Culture with Christy Harrison author of the Wellness Trap

===

This is episode 361 of the Beyond the Food Show, and today we’re gonna talk about wellness culture. We’re all familiar with diet culture, but there’s a new phenomenon that is evolving from that culture, and that’s wellness culture. And have a expert in the field of wellness culture, christie Harrison, who just released the book, well-researched book on that topic, the Trap of Wellness. And we’re gonna have this beautiful conversation also including one of my student, Joni O’Donnell. So if you wanna understand wellness culture and how it plays a role in your life, stay tuned.

Stephanie: Welcome to the podcast, Christy.

Christy: Thank you so much for having me.

Stephanie: It’s been two and a half years. We’re just talking about that. The last time I had you on a podcast was like during the pandemic, or right before the pandemic what’s your first book, the Anti-D diet book.

Christy: That’s right.

Stephanie: The world has changed since then.

Christy: Such a different world. I know. It’s wild.

Stephanie: But the topic is something I’ve been wanting to talk about for a very long time, which is wellness culture, and you just wrote a book on that. And I have a co-host, by the way, for everybody listening, Joni O’Donnell.

Joni: Hi everybody.

Stephanie: She is one of our student and she’s also a mastermind with me so sh I ask her to come in and, lead this interview with me. And she’s gonna get us started with a context question that’s gonna set up the rest of the conversation, so I’ll let you go first, joie.

Joni: Great, thanks Stephanie. Hi, Christie. I’m so happy to have you here and have this chance to talk with you today.

Christy: I’m happy to be here.

Joni: Great. So I was wondering if you could just start, just to kind of start our conversation, is to tell us a little bit about in general what wellness culture is and what we’re talking about because we’re familiar with diet culture at this point, and we’ve all read your book, anti-D Diet, which is amazing and changed everything for me and my work, but if you could tell us a little bit about what wellness culture is, I think that would help to kind of set the tone for people who are listening.

Christy: Sure. Absolutely. So, you know, wellness, like, I think it’s helpful to start off by defining wellness itself. And wellness is really defined as and conceived of as this practice of seeking to prevent illness and prolong life, not just treat disease, although people with diseases make up a significant portion of the wellness market. And in wellness there’s really a clear emphasis on individual choice and responsibility and the sense of optimization. It’s like this active pursuit of the most optimized you can possibly be.

Christy: And so it’s really defined by like this constant pursuit and the things that you do, and doing all those things typically requires a fair amount of privilege and is inaccessible to most people. And so wellness culture is the belief system that really underlies the concept of wellness. And it’s a set of values that equates wellness with moral goodness and, pos certain behaviors in a certain type of body as the path to achieving that supposed goodness. It overlaps with diet culture, which I described in anti-D diet is a system of beliefs that equates thinness, muscularity, in particular body shapes with health and moral virtue, promotes weight loss and body reshaping as a means of attaining higher status, whether that’s health status, moral status, or social status, demonizes certain foods and food groups while elevating others and oppresses people who don’t match that supposed picture of health.

Christy: And wellness culture, more or less incorporates all of those values into its belief system, but it also adds several other major tenets of its own. So some of the ones that I focus on in the book are that it denigrates conventional medicine and idolizes alternative integrative, and supposedly holistic approaches to healing that are supposedly more natural. And there’s this particular reverence for methods that are perceived as ancient or non-western, even if those characterizations aren’t always accurate, even if the thing in question is actually just being sort of cherry picked or stripped for parts, and it’s not really the ancient tradition that it’s made out to be.

Christy: And in fact, I think in wellness culture, there’s this emphasis on the individual’s ability to pick and choose what works for them, what wellness practices to adopt, and that often results in taking healing modalities out of context and really creating cultural appropriation and fetishization. And this like lionization of individual choices that we see in wellness culture also downplays or outright ignores the social determinants of health, which have a much greater impact on population wellbeing than individual behaviors. And the way that wellness culture is set up to value those things, I think gives anecdotes and social media testimonials more weight than sound scientific evidence, which, enables the spread of myth and disinformation and, conspiracy theories and scams and a lot of things that I cover in the book. And, I think the, social media and the structure of the internet also has really facilitated that spread and sort of intertwined with wellness culture in interesting ways that I unpack in the book.

Joni: Yeah. Well thanks for that description. I just wanna say too, for anybody listening, you go into such depth about the cultural appropriation and the, different types of medicines in the cherry picking and it’s so interesting that I highly recommend. I know we don’t have the time to go into it in detail here, but I highly recommend, reading the book just for that, even that history information, is really fascinating and really ties into what we’re dealing with today. [Thank you. ]

Stephanie: One other thing that for me, fascinated me in the way you described and presented wellness culture is this praise or how it prays on our desire for control. [Mm-hmm] When we have in fact very little control on our health and on our weight and wellness culture just proposed to a solution that pretend we will have control. And that’s really an angle that I knew was there, but I didn’t realize that was one of the prime value or foundation of wellness culture. It’s really interesting perspective.

Christy: Yeah, I think it’s really,praise on, like you said, the ways that people are unserved by the conventional healthcare system, the ways that we all, we all want and deserve to feel happy and well and, have wellbeing. I think that’s the thing that we’re all really seeking. But, wellness culture sort of promotes and packages this idea that we can achieve wellness and this like, optimized state and constantly be striving for it by doing these things that, really don’t have a good evidence base behind them. In a lot of cases, in some cases they’re just kind of totally made up by some influencer who’s out for their own benefit. And it’s preying on people who are vulnerable, have maybe chronic illnesses. I myself live with multiple chronic illnesses that are often targeted by wellness culture. So that was part of what inspired me to write this book because I have autoimmune diseases, I have hormonal conditions, I have skin issues, I have digestive issues, you know, all of these things that wellness culture promises you can fix with, often with food and then supplements and potentially other regimens and protocols that are really not evidence-based and in many cases are actually harmful.

Stephanie: And at the end of the day, it’s about accepting, not having control. And here’s where I see a pattern, and you tell me if you see the same thing. We’ve been in this world of the non-AI approach for me, eight years. And what I see people is they come in, they release diet culture, they stop dieting, and then there’s a stage where they go into wellness culture, [mm-hmm] again, trying to seek the control that they had to like accept with their way. They’re thinking there’s still a hope to get control and not have to accept. Do you see the same pattern in your world as well?

Christy: Definitely. Definitely. And that’s one of the reasons I wanted to write this book is because I see so many people, I’ve had a lot of people in my audience and clients come to me over the years and say like, I’m in recovery from disordered eating, I’ve given up diet culture, I’ll never diet again, but I’m really interested in gut health. Or I really, [yes] I went to see a naturopath and they told me I need to cut out all these foods or I was feeling fatigued and kind of diagnosed myself online with adrenal fatigue. And I’m looking up diets for that and how do I do this thing for self-care, like to take care of myself without spiraling back into disordered eating?

Christy: And when I look into the, those conditions that people are supposedly diagnosed with or the diets that they’re recommended, I see again and again, there’s no good evidence base for them. There’s certainly not enough scientific evidence, if any, to recommend individuals go on a diet. Maybe there’s like animal studies or studies in a population level, but not at the individual level. And so, I’ve been seeing again and again, like the lack of good evidence behind those things, but how people are so vulnerable and get sucked in so easily, because, like you said, there’s this desire for control. There’s this desire for feeling better and I get it. You know, as someone with all these chronic health conditions, like I’ve had periods in my life where things were really flared up and really intense and I just wanted relief and I was desperate. And even being a science-minded person and a journalist, I’ve been a journalist my whole career and like have learned, learned early on sort of how to find sources and get good evidence and good information. I’ve learned a lot more I think in the years since I started about like research methods and media literacy and, going to school to get a master’s of public health, I think really took that to the next level that, that many, science and nutrition journalists don’t have. But, but still, I have been vulnerable and gotten sucked into these false promises of wellness culture and thought, well, I don’t know if this has good evidence behind it, or I don’t have the time to research it. I’m just exhausted from my chronic conditions, but let me try this because what’s the harm?

Christy: And personally and in my professional life as well, I’ve seen again and again that, that there is tremendous harm that can happen from just trying something. I think these methods are wellness methods are framed as being gentler and having fewer risks and more natural or whatever than conventional methods. And so people feel like they can trust them or they can take the risk because even if it’s not gonna work, like what’s the worst that could happen? It’s just a waste of money or something. But actually in many cases there’s tremendous harm that can happen. Sometimes the protocols that we use exacerbate the very conditions that they’re meant to solve. So like celery juice, which I talk about in the book, can actually cause digestive issues even though it’s promoted as this, like cure all for gut health. There’s lots of things like that that can really worsen what you’re coming in with and set you back and your healing for various conditions.

Christy: And then, the disordered eating risk I think is so huge, and especially for anyone listening to this podcast, anyone who has their own history of disordered eating and is trying to recover, I think it’s really, really slippery slope and really dangerous territory to go into wellness culture and expect to find healing that isn’t going to exacerbate the disordered eating. I’ve had people tell me, they even went to like a functional medicine doctor or a naturopath or something and said, I have a history of disordered eating, so I really don’t wanna do any diets. And still they got pushed into doing something restrictive or taking foods out or doing an elimination diet or something like that.

Christy: So, I think it’s really important to kind of shine a light on this. And it’s something that I don’t think enough people are talking about in the anti-D diet space or in sort of the culture at large. I think there’s so much trendiness to a lot of these diets and wellness protocols and, wellness on TikTok has become really huge and, and functional medicine has become really huge. And I think, there’s a lot of downsides to all that stuff that we need to be talking about.

Joni: Well, Christie, I am so glad to hear you talking about all of this and it resonates, for me on a personal level, both, personally in my own life, recovering from an eating disorder, living with chronic conditions and chronic pain and autoimmune diseases. And this, also resonates deeply with the clients that I work with. And, As you described in your book, we live in this world of information overload, which is filled with misinformation, disinformation, and that can be really overwhelming for the average person. You talked about your history as a journalist and your master’s in public health and all of your, clearly you have a lot of research history and scientific knowledge, but for the average person who may not have that kind of time, energy, the skills or even the resources available to do that kind of deep dive, what steps could you recommend for the average person to discern between what’s trustworthy and helpful and what’s harmful, bs?

Christy: Yeah, such a good question because we can’t all be experts, right? We can’t be expected to know everything, and even people who are experts sometimes just don’t have the time or the resources to research everything. So I think it’s important to have some kind of like shortcuts to figuring out what’s useful and what is potentially a scam or just misinformation. I think one thing to really understand is that social media algorithms are designed to maximize engagement because that’s what keeps people on the platforms getting served more ads, which is how the platforms make money. That’s literally their business model. And what drives the most engagement is content that is novel, that is extreme, that provokes moral outrage, it’s controversial. And misinformation really hits all those notes and we see that really driving so much of the wellness misinformation. So one thing to do is just stepping away from social media and not getting your health and wellness information from social media, looking at all of it with a really skeptical lens, even, from licensed healthcare providers, right?

Christy: Like credentialed providers are on social media doing good work. But I think also the incentives of social media and the business model often drive people to frame things in ways that are more black and white and less nuanced. And certainly a provider on social media isn’t working with you one-on-one as a client, and so, there’s a lot of nuance that gets missed. And so I think, not getting your information from social media is one big thing people can do. I think people don’t necessarily fall for claims because they’re gullible. They are, often very smart, very science minded. But sometimes that science mindedness and like trust in science can actually work against people because there’s research showing that people who have like a broad trust in science, if they’re presented with misinformation that has scientific references and scientific sounding language, they’re gonna be more likely to be taken in by that because of their trust in science.

Christy: So I think, it’s not to say don’t trust science, but I think we need to be critical consumers of science and look at science with the same kind of skepticism that we would look at other things and in general to look at health and wellness claims with a very high degree of skepticism, not take things at face value, you know. And if something has supposed scientific references listed to actually click through and see, does that say what it purports to say, does that actually support the claim that someone is making or is that a totally different topic? Right. Oftentimes I’ll see that with wellness influencers, whether they’re, they’ll link to a supposed piece of evidence or study that supports what they’re saying, and it actually has nothing to do with what they’re saying at all.

Christy: I think also looking out for kind of red flags, like doctors don’t want you to know, or other kind of conspiratorial sounding language. The idea of like healing yourself naturally is so appealing, but that kind of language is also often associated with things that aren’t as evidence-based. Dubious diagnoses that I talk about in the book, like adrenal fatigue, chronic Canada, leaky Gut syndrome, all of those things really don’t have good evidence behind them. [Mm-hmm] And you know, if something is purporting to be a miracle or a cure-all, or it’s like one thing that cures all ills, be very, very wary of that.

Christy: There’s systemic issues here. And so not all of this is an individual responsibility, right? Like there are, things that need to be addressed at the societal level, including regulating technology companies and social media so that the proliferation of wellness, misinformation and disinformation isn’t allowed to happen. Regulating the supplement industry, which is kind of the wild west, like there’s really very little regulation that happens there. No pre-market testing for safety and efficacy, so things can go on the market that really shouldn’t be there. But you know, that said, even as we’re working towards these individual or these societal level changes that need to happen, there are things individuals can do as well. So, like I said, the skepticism, right? Treating integrative and alternative medicine and the wellness industry in general of as much critical thinking and skepticism or more than you would to conventional medicine. With any given wellness treatment or practice, just knowing that the placebo effect is likely very strong. And that’s not to say it’s all in your head, but actually there are powerful mind body connections at play where if you believe something is gonna help you or you’re getting empathy and support from a care provider, that goes a long way to helping relieve pain and relieve symptoms and it’s understandable that you might feel better at first, but what often happens with the placebo effect is that it wears off over time.

Christy: And so if something might seem like it’s working at first and then over time you’re like, I don’t know, my symptoms are coming back, or now I’m having new symptoms and the, the solution proposed in wellness culture to that is often, okay, we’ll just do that harder or just add these other supplements, or just add these other dietary restrictions, just keep doing it, keep pushing, like get more and more extreme. And actually, that can just compound the problem and make things a lot worse and worsen disordered eating, take people down that slippery slope of orthorexia and just, and, eating disorders. It can also worsen the symptoms that you came in with because now you’re taking a whole bunch of supplements or a whole, doing a whole bunch of dietary restrictions that have their own side effects on physical health. And so

Christy: just being aware that placebo effect is often at play in wellness practices and if you start to feel like I just don’t know if something is working,having that kind of skepticism and maybe instead of going harder, instead of like adding more protocols and doing more wellness treatments, stepping back and letting go of the stuff that you’ve been trying andpotentially working with a conventional healthcare provider, if you can find one who is less likely to prescribe those kinds of things.

Christy: And of course, conventional healthcare has its own pitfalls and its own problems, and I think that’s why people are vulnerable to wellness culture in a lot of cases, why they’re attracted to it and oftentimes there still is a better evidence base and better care that you can find, if you can sort of wade through some of like the weight stigma and the other stuff that, that is often there. There’s a method that I really like called the Sift Method, which is developed by Mike Caulfield, who’s a researcher at the University of Washington who studies media literacy. And that stands for four Steps. So it’s stop, investigate the source, find better coverage, and trace claims quotes in media back to their original context. And so with wellness claims, wellness culture stuff that you might encounter, especially on social media, stop, just take a breath, don’t share, don’t act, don’t spread the information. Even spreading, sharing content to say, look at this bogus thing, can actually spread it farther to vulnerable audiences. So really just thinking about quarantining the misinformation or the potential misinformation, not spreading it until you’ve investigated. Then investigating the source. look into who’s sharing that content, who’s responsible, who tends to benefit, what their credentials are and their reputation is. And just because, someone is like selling something doesn’t mean they’re automatically wrong or spreading misinformation, right? Everybody has to make money in this capitalistic system, but you know, it’s helpful to take into account like what their agenda might be. Then, finding better coverage means, if you don’t necessarily trust the source of the information, or even if you do, but you just want like a second or third opinion and they’re saying something unusual, look for other coverage and see what other reputable sources or just reputable sources in general are saying on the subject.The concept of reputable can feel really tricky in this day and age because mainstream media has been really denigrated in certain corners and science does have its problems and stuff. But I think,thinking about mainstream news outlets, the fact that they’re held journalistic standards and they could actually be sued for making false or unsubstantiated claims. So they’re often a good source for information and cross-referencing information and claims that seem too good to be true because, lawyers would definitely, like block the publication of certain things if it was, not true. Right. Mainstream media outlets also tend to be really interested in health and wellness information and health and wellness trends. And speaking as a journalist who, got her start in health and wellness reporting, when I was like very disordered myself and looking for diet advice and wanting to lose weight and all of the things, journalists in this space I think are very interested in quote unquote natural methods or healing things with food. Like, if there was something that was that good, journalists in that space would be all over it if it was really true. Right? If there was like, an effective alternative to chemotherapy for cancer, or a natural method for treating ibs or whatever it is, so if they’re not covering something, I think that could be a good sign that, it’s the science isn’t really there, right? And then finally tracing claims, quotes, and media back to their original context, just thinking about,whether the scientific references are really there to support something, as I said. Or whether citations are being taken out of context or sometimes entirely fabricated. And if there aren’t any legitimate outside sources that are being cited, that’s also a red flag. So if someone is like, have it on authority from a spirit that, doing this thing is gonna help you, which, like the medical medium has said about celery juice. It’s like, like the spirit tells me that celery juice is gonna heal all your ills and science just hasn’t caught up with it yet. So yeah, don’t worry about the fact that there’s no science. I’m the one to trust. Like that’s a huge red flag, I think head for the hills when you know someone is making a claim like that. And then one other thing to think about is just noticing the emotions that come up in you when you’re reading and absorbing content. [Mm-hmm] You know, if you end up feeling fearful, anxious, activated, feeling like I have to do this now, this is the key, this is the solution. Or you have this sort of outsized sense of hope, like this is finally gonna be the thing that cures all my ills but you can’t verify the facts and you’ve like done this sift method and you’re like, I don’t know, I’m a little skeptical, nobody else reputable seems to be reporting on this, it’s just this one person don’t know if they have great credentials, I think be really aware that manipulation might be afoot in sort of how they’re trying to stir up your emotions and get you to act.

Stephanie: In talking about this, in reading the book, the other piece that really struck me is the concept of wellbeing, which is in part where we’re talking here, wellbeing versus wellness. And can you share your perspective on that and how it informs what we can do then. If it’s not to buy into this claim, how can we approach wellness from a different land?

Christy: Yeah, that’s such a good question. I really see wellbeing as,in a way, the antithesis of wellness, right? So, wellness is about optimization and constantly striving, and you can never quite get there. It’s this thing that’s always like receding in the distance. And wellbeing is more about acceptance, doing the best you have with what you’ve got, doing your best to find some measure of like mental and emotional and social support and feeling as connected as possible to people around you and having like, a more holistic sense of wellbeing than just pursuing this physical thing and constantly trying to optimize. Cause I think wellness culture really, it, it talks a big game about being holistic, but actually it’s really prioritizing the physical and it takes away so much from the mental and emotional and social aspects of our wellbeing.

Christy: So, pursuing wellbeing I think is about kind of coming back to those more truly holistic aspects of ourselves and our connections with others and our wellbeing. And so, I think pursuing wellbeing is what we ultimately need to be striving for at the social level, at the societal level, supporting people’s wellbeing, not putting so much emphasis on individual behaviors and shaming people for what they do and don’t do. We need to be emphasizing social determinants of health more and sort of thinking about ways of collectively caring for people and not just putting it all onthe individual shoulders. And that’s a really tall order I know in this society because, for so many reasons and so many historical roots of this. America and the western, western culture in general, I think is very individualistic and very shaming of people who have illness or struggle in some way or have disabilities or are larger bodied and all of those things.

Christy: So, it’s a really is a tall order at the societal level, but I think we can work towards that. And as individuals we can just do our best to bring some measure of acceptance and thinking about mental and emotional wellbeing as sort of primary and not prioritizing the physical over and above that.

Stephanie: What for me has, and I’ll get Jonie to go after that, but what for me wellbeing meant is that true quote, holistic nature, like mental and wellness, and what I have seen in my practice is that people move from that culture to wellness culture, finding the solution in wellness culture, that it’s still physical. [Mm-hmm] And when you can think about wellbeing and the way you’re presenting it in the book, you’re really, kind of have to dig into what you’ve been avoiding all along, which is mental and emotional and spiritual wellbeing beyond the physical body.

Christy: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that’s really hard and that’s something that, you know, people with disordered eating, [yes] sometimes they’re trying to outrun, right? [Yes.] Disordered eating has benefits in some ways to people, or it’s a coping skill. It’s a coping method that people have developed for difficult things in their lives and a way of trying to control situations that might feel out of control and to find some measure of relief from outside forces like weight stigma and [Yeah] other forms of discrimination. It’s a way of trying to like combat some of those forces. And so, when you drop that and when you drop the pursuit of wellness and optimization, I think sometimes you’re faced with like this overwhelming fear and anxiety and pain and just grief that comes from feeling like, I don’t know how to sort of fight back against these forces within me and outside of myself, and it can feel really, really painful.

Joni: So I think finding support for that in whatever way that looks like, it could be finding a great mental health therapist, which I know can be a process and involves access issues for a lot of people. It can mean leaning on your community and finding people in your life who get it, connecting with people online and maybe forming some offline relationships from that, doing your best to get connected with others who can support you. And really, I think therapy is amazing and has been so healing and important in my life that people who can and have access to therapy, just putting in that unfortunate work to like, of trial and error to find the right therapist, I think can have really immense payoffs too. So Christie, everything you just said, there’s so, so much good information. I wish we had all day to talk about this. Some of the things that you brought up, about individual responsibility and dubious diagnoses, I know that they’re two different topics, but they’re so intertwined, I think.Somebody goes to the doctor and they’re presented with this diagnosis, that just doesn’t seem quite right, or it may have been given hastily without a lot of diagnostic testing and follow up, then we’re faced with this weight stigma and this anti-fat bias in the medical community. And a lot of it then just comes back onto us as an individual, right? So both wellness culture, diet culture, they seem to both push this idea that we’re solely responsible for all aspects of our health and wellbeing. And that nosha can really feel insurmountable. It can and feel like such a burden that leads to feelings of moral failure and thoughts like, I’m not good enough, I’m not strong enough, I don’t have enough willpower or commitment. And that list can go on and on. And those feelings often get reinforced, like you said, by families, social circles, even in the medical community. Right.

Joni: So yeah, so how can someone just really kind of advocate for themselves in order to be heard and understood and taken seriously and provided appropriate testing and care in the medical setting, when they’re faced with all of these factors. And what else is at play here besides just, you know,this is all your responsibility and this is all your fault, that you’re in this, that you’re in this situation.

Joni: So if we’re working with people who we wanna kind of help free them from that, from the grip of that individual responsibility, can you share a little bit about what other factors are affecting the health and wellbeing that are not in the individual person’s control?

Christy: Sure, yeah. So, genetics plays a huge, huge role in chronic conditions that people might have, in people’s weight and body size, that’s really largely heritable and largely determined by genetics. And then, people’s social determinants of health I think can also really have an impact on their health outcomes, on chronic conditions, on the health challenges that they might face. So, there’s research at the population level showing that 70% of population health outcomes are attributable to social determinants, like housing security, food security, income level, education level, experiences of discrimination and racism that they might face in the world,access to healthcare, all of these things that are affecting the conditions in which people live and can affect their wellbeing.

Christy: And so just being aware of that and being compassionate with yourself for the fact that those things are so influential in our lives and that only 30% of health population, health outcomes are attributable to all behaviors and then only 10% to food and exercise combined. And I think that number really staggers a lot of people because they might think, you know, in a wellness culture, we’re sort of conditioned to believe that like 90% of the pie is food and exercise, right? And that like maybe only 10% is other things, and it’s actually the reverse, you know? And so recognizing that we have so much less control over our outcomes then we are led to believe and very little control when it comes to food and exercise and that if someone is proposing those things as the solution to all your problems, it’s really missing the bigger picture here. It’s really missing this context of what goes into our wellbeing, kind of on average as a whole. And, if you can find a healthcare provider who is empathetic and willing to set aside some of their own biases, maybe set asidepressure to put you on a diet or lose weight and look at other factors that could be contributing to what’s going on for you, and look at solutions that don’t have anything to do with weight loss or diets. In many cases there are, really I thinkto me, pretty much in all cases there are solutions that can be adopted and practices that people can do to promote their wellbeing that have nothing to do with losing weight or with going on a restrictive diet, but that can maybe bring some measure of relief. And I know that there are chronic conditions that are really understudied and populations that are really underserved and certain conditions are contested and like don’t have a lot of great evidence or support, or you might even get doctors sort of being skeptical that even exists. And in some cases there are things that don’t really exist, like supposed adrenal fatigue or chronic Canada or things like that, that are like sort of wellness cultures invented terms. But if you think you have that, it’s not that you don’t have anything. It’s like you, you have a real problem. There’s things that really need, you really deserve help for what you’re going through. And what you’re going through is real, and your symptoms are real, but the label that you’ve gotten for them is wrong and it’s been misidentified and so you deserve to get actual support and actual diagnosis for what’s really ailing you.

Christy: And I know that can take years in some cases and a lot of trial and error and working with different providers and we shouldn’t have to do that. We shouldn’t have to go through all that to get the appropriate care. But unfortunately, that’s the system we’re in right now. And again, that’s where wellness culture sort of preys on people’s vulnerabilities, I think. Because the system is so broken in so many ways, there’s a real void where good healthcare should be for many people. And so that’s where, people start getting seduced by or sucked into these wellness paradigms that, are just leading them in the opposite direction of where they wanna be going, of the healing that they seek.

Christy: And so think it’s really complicated and I have so much empathy and compassion for people going through it. And I just wanna sort of put in a plug for like, continuing to push and continuing to try to get the care that you need and deserve to the extent that you’re able to with whatever else you’ve got going on, symptom-wise and stuff like, there are really empathetic providers out there who at the very least will agree to say, okay, I’m not gonna talk about your weight, I’m not gonna put you on a diet. Let’s look at other potential solutions for this. Or who maybe are like beyond that, just super empathetic providers who are willing to do a lot of work and testing and keep supporting you as you find what’s gonna work for you. [Mm-hmm.] So, it’s again super complicated and I wish everybody had access to the kind of empathetic providers that I’ve eventually been able to find after two decades of like going through different providers and working to find a good team.

Christy: And if I move or go on a different insurance, I might lose them, right? So it’s like, it’s all very precarious in this healthcare system. But I think that’s what we’re really aiming for is to find that sort of team that’s gonna be empathetic and compassionate and not put us on diets or promote weight loss, or stigmatize people for the size and shape of their bodies and actually give evidence-based care for the things that we are struggling with.

Stephanie: Did you have a last question, Joanie? Because we need to wrap this up at this point.

Joni: You know what, I just wanted to, there was something you said in your book at the very end you talk about healing from wellness culture and I just wanna kind of add this in because I think it’s important for people to hear. I think they’re gonna hear themselves in something that you said in the book. So, and I’ve been working with clients for a long time on unlearning and healing from the harms of diet culture and I imagine that is similar to healing and unlearning wellness culture. [Mm-hmm.] But specifically, you stated in the book that at some level you thought you needed to be free from symptoms and functioning optimally in order to be worthy. And that deep down you felt that you needed to completely erase your chronic conditions in order to fulfill and live the life that you had driven for yourself. So this resonates deeply with me. I’m sure it resonates with a lot of people listening who are already susceptible to all or nothing thinking, or black and white thinking and perfectionism.

Joni: [Mm-hmm.] So if you could share your biggest takeaway on how you began to kind of live in that gray zone of imperfection, I think that would be helpful for some of our listeners to hear.

Christy: Yeah. It’s been such a winding path and I think it didn’t happen overnight. So it takes work and it takes practice and support, but I think it was just this like little by little letting go of, for me, it started with food, right, started with letting go of the perfectionism about food and letting myself be a little more and letting myself, of be aware of and honor my hungers, my desires, my satisfactions, and starting to trust my body more through that process and just knowing that like, my body is gonna have these consistent ways of making its, or eventually consistent, right? Sometimes they’re very inconsistent, but my body’s gonna have ways of making its needs known. And if I listen to them and fill those needs, I’m gonna feel good. My body’s gonna thank me in some way. And that took a lot of time to get to that point, I think. But then, sort of starting to become aware of that at an embodied level [mm-hmm] helped me also become aware of like, Other ways that I was being perfectionistic and holding on really tight and forcing myself to do things that were, not listening to my body’s needs, right. Pushing myself beyond my limits, not getting enough rest, not taking the downtime I need as someone who’s like, got mental health challenges as well and introverted and just needs to cocoon sometimes, and starting to accept those things about myself through talking to other people who went through similar challenges, reading,consuming content from other people who struggle with similar issues and realizing that like feeling at peace with myself and having a certain measure of wellbeing, well, a isn’t gonna be consistent through all time, like I’m gonna have ups and downs with that and sometimes I’m not gonna feel at peace with myself and I’m gonna feel frustrated with my conditions and maybe lack of ability to do things that other people can do and compare myself and all that stuff. But, but recognizing that like in order to feel some measure of greater peace, I don’t need to be entirely symptom free or medication free or disease free, right? That it’s possible to be in a state of relative wellbeing even while living with chronic conditions and managing them and doing my best to just take care of my body and make accommodations for it and recognize its limitations and embrace those things actually, right? Like, to get to at least a place of neutrality with them was one thing. but then to get to a place of like real care and compassion for myself in struggling with those challenges, I think was kind of another level of healing.

Christy: And so it’s not easy. It’s, it takes a lot, I think, of constant effort and work to, to remind yourself of that acceptance that you need to have for yourself. But, over time and with enough practice and support, I really was able to let go of so much of that perfectionism about my wellbeing and wellness in general and not get so caught up in things that purported to make me symptom free or reverse disease or put things into remission. I’ve stopped believing in those magic bullets and started to really just accept that these are things I’m gonna live with and I don’t know why I have them really. Some of them are genetic, some of them who knows. But,this is what it is. This is what I’ve been given, this is the body I live with, and there are strengths to it and there are limitations to it, and I’m gonna do my best to embrace all of it.

Stephanie: I just kept shook my hand. I’ve been, I’ve been singing that song for years now because I have chronic pain as well, and people always want to know like how, why are you seem to be living a full life and somewhat happy? [Mm-hmm.] It’s not because I found the magic pill. [Mm-hmm.] It’s because I’ve accepted that my life is with chronic pain. [Mm-hmm.] So thank you for saying that out loud.

Stephanie: I’m going to wrap us up and say thank you so much, Christie, for being here and highly recommend the book. We are gonna link it in the show notes. I think it’s a game changer and it can not in the sense that wellness culture one tell you can change your life, but it can really change your perspective on life.

Christy: Hmm. Thank you so much.

Stephanie: Thank you.

 

 

Wellness Culture with Christy Harrison author of the Wellness Trap

This is episode 361 of the Beyond the Food Show, and today we’re gonna talk about wellness culture. We’re all familiar with diet culture, but there’s a new phenomenon that is evolving from that culture, and that’s wellness culture. And have a expert in the field of wellness culture, christie Harrison, who just released the book, well-researched book on that topic, the Trap of Wellness. And we’re gonna have this beautiful conversation also including one of my student, Joni O’Donnell. So if you wanna understand wellness culture and how it plays a role in your life, stay tuned.

Stephanie: Welcome to the podcast, Christy.

Christy: Thank you so much for having me.

Stephanie: It’s been two and a half years. We’re just talking about that. The last time I had you on a podcast was like during the pandemic, or right before the pandemic what’s your first book, the Anti-D diet book.

Christy: That’s right.

Stephanie: The world has changed since then.

Christy: Such a different world. I know. It’s wild.

Stephanie: But the topic is something I’ve been wanting to talk about for a very long time, which is wellness culture, and you just wrote a book on that. And I have a co-host, by the way, for everybody listening, Joni O’Donnell.

Joni: Hi everybody.

Stephanie: She is one of our student and she’s also a mastermind with me so sh I ask her to come in and, lead this interview with me. And she’s gonna get us started with a context question that’s gonna set up the rest of the conversation, so I’ll let you go first, joie.

Joni: Great, thanks Stephanie. Hi, Christie. I’m so happy to have you here and have this chance to talk with you today.

Christy: I’m happy to be here.

Joni: Great. So I was wondering if you could just start, just to kind of start our conversation, is to tell us a little bit about in general what wellness culture is and what we’re talking about because we’re familiar with diet culture at this point, and we’ve all read your book, anti-D Diet, which is amazing and changed everything for me and my work, but if you could tell us a little bit about what wellness culture is, I think that would help to kind of set the tone for people who are listening.

Christy: Sure. Absolutely. So, you know, wellness, like, I think it’s helpful to start off by defining wellness itself. And wellness is really defined as and conceived of as this practice of seeking to prevent illness and prolong life, not just treat disease, although people with diseases make up a significant portion of the wellness market. And in wellness there’s really a clear emphasis on individual choice and responsibility and the sense of optimization. It’s like this active pursuit of the most optimized you can possibly be.

Christy: And so it’s really defined by like this constant pursuit and the things that you do, and doing all those things typically requires a fair amount of privilege and is inaccessible to most people. And so wellness culture is the belief system that really underlies the concept of wellness. And it’s a set of values that equates wellness with moral goodness and, pos certain behaviors in a certain type of body as the path to achieving that supposed goodness. It overlaps with diet culture, which I described in anti-D diet is a system of beliefs that equates thinness, muscularity, in particular body shapes with health and moral virtue, promotes weight loss and body reshaping as a means of attaining higher status, whether that’s health status, moral status, or social status, demonizes certain foods and food groups while elevating others and oppresses people who don’t match that supposed picture of health.

Christy: And wellness culture, more or less incorporates all of those values into its belief system, but it also adds several other major tenets of its own. So some of the ones that I focus on in the book are that it denigrates conventional medicine and idolizes alternative integrative, and supposedly holistic approaches to healing that are supposedly more natural. And there’s this particular reverence for methods that are perceived as ancient or non-western, even if those characterizations aren’t always accurate, even if the thing in question is actually just being sort of cherry picked or stripped for parts, and it’s not really the ancient tradition that it’s made out to be.

Christy: And in fact, I think in wellness culture, there’s this emphasis on the individual’s ability to pick and choose what works for them, what wellness practices to adopt, and that often results in taking healing modalities out of context and really creating cultural appropriation and fetishization. And this like lionization of individual choices that we see in wellness culture also downplays or outright ignores the social determinants of health, which have a much greater impact on population wellbeing than individual behaviors. And the way that wellness culture is set up to value those things, I think gives anecdotes and social media testimonials more weight than sound scientific evidence, which, enables the spread of myth and disinformation and, conspiracy theories and scams and a lot of things that I cover in the book. And, I think the, social media and the structure of the internet also has really facilitated that spread and sort of intertwined with wellness culture in interesting ways that I unpack in the book.

Joni: Yeah. Well thanks for that description. I just wanna say too, for anybody listening, you go into such depth about the cultural appropriation and the, different types of medicines in the cherry picking and it’s so interesting that I highly recommend. I know we don’t have the time to go into it in detail here, but I highly recommend, reading the book just for that, even that history information, is really fascinating and really ties into what we’re dealing with today. [Thank you. ]

Stephanie: One other thing that for me, fascinated me in the way you described and presented wellness culture is this praise or how it prays on our desire for control. [Mm-hmm] When we have in fact very little control on our health and on our weight and wellness culture just proposed to a solution that pretend we will have control. And that’s really an angle that I knew was there, but I didn’t realize that was one of the prime value or foundation of wellness culture. It’s really interesting perspective.

Christy: Yeah, I think it’s really,praise on, like you said, the ways that people are unserved by the conventional healthcare system, the ways that we all, we all want and deserve to feel happy and well and, have wellbeing. I think that’s the thing that we’re all really seeking. But, wellness culture sort of promotes and packages this idea that we can achieve wellness and this like, optimized state and constantly be striving for it by doing these things that, really don’t have a good evidence base behind them. In a lot of cases, in some cases they’re just kind of totally made up by some influencer who’s out for their own benefit. And it’s preying on people who are vulnerable, have maybe chronic illnesses. I myself live with multiple chronic illnesses that are often targeted by wellness culture. So that was part of what inspired me to write this book because I have autoimmune diseases, I have hormonal conditions, I have skin issues, I have digestive issues, you know, all of these things that wellness culture promises you can fix with, often with food and then supplements and potentially other regimens and protocols that are really not evidence-based and in many cases are actually harmful.

Stephanie: And at the end of the day, it’s about accepting, not having control. And here’s where I see a pattern, and you tell me if you see the same thing. We’ve been in this world of the non-AI approach for me, eight years. And what I see people is they come in, they release diet culture, they stop dieting, and then there’s a stage where they go into wellness culture, [mm-hmm] again, trying to seek the control that they had to like accept with their way. They’re thinking there’s still a hope to get control and not have to accept. Do you see the same pattern in your world as well?

Christy: Definitely. Definitely. And that’s one of the reasons I wanted to write this book is because I see so many people, I’ve had a lot of people in my audience and clients come to me over the years and say like, I’m in recovery from disordered eating, I’ve given up diet culture, I’ll never diet again, but I’m really interested in gut health. Or I really, [yes] I went to see a naturopath and they told me I need to cut out all these foods or I was feeling fatigued and kind of diagnosed myself online with adrenal fatigue. And I’m looking up diets for that and how do I do this thing for self-care, like to take care of myself without spiraling back into disordered eating?

Christy: And when I look into the, those conditions that people are supposedly diagnosed with or the diets that they’re recommended, I see again and again, there’s no good evidence base for them. There’s certainly not enough scientific evidence, if any, to recommend individuals go on a diet. Maybe there’s like animal studies or studies in a population level, but not at the individual level. And so, I’ve been seeing again and again, like the lack of good evidence behind those things, but how people are so vulnerable and get sucked in so easily, because, like you said, there’s this desire for control. There’s this desire for feeling better and I get it. You know, as someone with all these chronic health conditions, like I’ve had periods in my life where things were really flared up and really intense and I just wanted relief and I was desperate. And even being a science-minded person and a journalist, I’ve been a journalist my whole career and like have learned, learned early on sort of how to find sources and get good evidence and good information. I’ve learned a lot more I think in the years since I started about like research methods and media literacy and, going to school to get a master’s of public health, I think really took that to the next level that, that many, science and nutrition journalists don’t have. But, but still, I have been vulnerable and gotten sucked into these false promises of wellness culture and thought, well, I don’t know if this has good evidence behind it, or I don’t have the time to research it. I’m just exhausted from my chronic conditions, but let me try this because what’s the harm?

Christy: And personally and in my professional life as well, I’ve seen again and again that, that there is tremendous harm that can happen from just trying something. I think these methods are wellness methods are framed as being gentler and having fewer risks and more natural or whatever than conventional methods. And so people feel like they can trust them or they can take the risk because even if it’s not gonna work, like what’s the worst that could happen? It’s just a waste of money or something. But actually in many cases there’s tremendous harm that can happen. Sometimes the protocols that we use exacerbate the very conditions that they’re meant to solve. So like celery juice, which I talk about in the book, can actually cause digestive issues even though it’s promoted as this, like cure all for gut health. There’s lots of things like that that can really worsen what you’re coming in with and set you back and your healing for various conditions.

Christy: And then, the disordered eating risk I think is so huge, and especially for anyone listening to this podcast, anyone who has their own history of disordered eating and is trying to recover, I think it’s really, really slippery slope and really dangerous territory to go into wellness culture and expect to find healing that isn’t going to exacerbate the disordered eating. I’ve had people tell me, they even went to like a functional medicine doctor or a naturopath or something and said, I have a history of disordered eating, so I really don’t wanna do any diets. And still they got pushed into doing something restrictive or taking foods out or doing an elimination diet or something like that.

Christy: So, I think it’s really important to kind of shine a light on this. And it’s something that I don’t think enough people are talking about in the anti-D diet space or in sort of the culture at large. I think there’s so much trendiness to a lot of these diets and wellness protocols and, wellness on TikTok has become really huge and, and functional medicine has become really huge. And I think, there’s a lot of downsides to all that stuff that we need to be talking about.

Joni: Well, Christie, I am so glad to hear you talking about all of this and it resonates, for me on a personal level, both, personally in my own life, recovering from an eating disorder, living with chronic conditions and chronic pain and autoimmune diseases. And this, also resonates deeply with the clients that I work with. And, As you described in your book, we live in this world of information overload, which is filled with misinformation, disinformation, and that can be really overwhelming for the average person. You talked about your history as a journalist and your master’s in public health and all of your, clearly you have a lot of research history and scientific knowledge, but for the average person who may not have that kind of time, energy, the skills or even the resources available to do that kind of deep dive, what steps could you recommend for the average person to discern between what’s trustworthy and helpful and what’s harmful, bs?

Christy: Yeah, such a good question because we can’t all be experts, right? We can’t be expected to know everything, and even people who are experts sometimes just don’t have the time or the resources to research everything. So I think it’s important to have some kind of like shortcuts to figuring out what’s useful and what is potentially a scam or just misinformation. I think one thing to really understand is that social media algorithms are designed to maximize engagement because that’s what keeps people on the platforms getting served more ads, which is how the platforms make money. That’s literally their business model. And what drives the most engagement is content that is novel, that is extreme, that provokes moral outrage, it’s controversial. And misinformation really hits all those notes and we see that really driving so much of the wellness misinformation. So one thing to do is just stepping away from social media and not getting your health and wellness information from social media, looking at all of it with a really skeptical lens, even, from licensed healthcare providers, right?

Christy: Like credentialed providers are on social media doing good work. But I think also the incentives of social media and the business model often drive people to frame things in ways that are more black and white and less nuanced. And certainly a provider on social media isn’t working with you one-on-one as a client, and so, there’s a lot of nuance that gets missed. And so I think, not getting your information from social media is one big thing people can do. I think people don’t necessarily fall for claims because they’re gullible. They are, often very smart, very science minded. But sometimes that science mindedness and like trust in science can actually work against people because there’s research showing that people who have like a broad trust in science, if they’re presented with misinformation that has scientific references and scientific sounding language, they’re gonna be more likely to be taken in by that because of their trust in science.

Christy: So I think, it’s not to say don’t trust science, but I think we need to be critical consumers of science and look at science with the same kind of skepticism that we would look at other things and in general to look at health and wellness claims with a very high degree of skepticism, not take things at face value, you know. And if something has supposed scientific references listed to actually click through and see, does that say what it purports to say, does that actually support the claim that someone is making or is that a totally different topic? Right. Oftentimes I’ll see that with wellness influencers, whether they’re, they’ll link to a supposed piece of evidence or study that supports what they’re saying, and it actually has nothing to do with what they’re saying at all.

Christy: I think also looking out for kind of red flags, like doctors don’t want you to know, or other kind of conspiratorial sounding language. The idea of like healing yourself naturally is so appealing, but that kind of language is also often associated with things that aren’t as evidence-based. Dubious diagnoses that I talk about in the book, like adrenal fatigue, chronic Canada, leaky Gut syndrome, all of those things really don’t have good evidence behind them. [Mm-hmm] And you know, if something is purporting to be a miracle or a cure-all, or it’s like one thing that cures all ills, be very, very wary of that.

Christy: There’s systemic issues here. And so not all of this is an individual responsibility, right? Like there are, things that need to be addressed at the societal level, including regulating technology companies and social media so that the proliferation of wellness, misinformation and disinformation isn’t allowed to happen. Regulating the supplement industry, which is kind of the wild west, like there’s really very little regulation that happens there. No pre-market testing for safety and efficacy, so things can go on the market that really shouldn’t be there. But you know, that said, even as we’re working towards these individual or these societal level changes that need to happen, there are things individuals can do as well. So, like I said, the skepticism, right? Treating integrative and alternative medicine and the wellness industry in general of as much critical thinking and skepticism or more than you would to conventional medicine. With any given wellness treatment or practice, just knowing that the placebo effect is likely very strong. And that’s not to say it’s all in your head, but actually there are powerful mind body connections at play where if you believe something is gonna help you or you’re getting empathy and support from a care provider, that goes a long way to helping relieve pain and relieve symptoms and it’s understandable that you might feel better at first, but what often happens with the placebo effect is that it wears off over time.

Christy: And so if something might seem like it’s working at first and then over time you’re like, I don’t know, my symptoms are coming back, or now I’m having new symptoms and the, the solution proposed in wellness culture to that is often, okay, we’ll just do that harder or just add these other supplements, or just add these other dietary restrictions, just keep doing it, keep pushing, like get more and more extreme. And actually, that can just compound the problem and make things a lot worse and worsen disordered eating, take people down that slippery slope of orthorexia and just, and, eating disorders. It can also worsen the symptoms that you came in with because now you’re taking a whole bunch of supplements or a whole, doing a whole bunch of dietary restrictions that have their own side effects on physical health. And so

Christy: just being aware that placebo effect is often at play in wellness practices and if you start to feel like I just don’t know if something is working,having that kind of skepticism and maybe instead of going harder, instead of like adding more protocols and doing more wellness treatments, stepping back and letting go of the stuff that you’ve been trying andpotentially working with a conventional healthcare provider, if you can find one who is less likely to prescribe those kinds of things.

Christy: And of course, conventional healthcare has its own pitfalls and its own problems, and I think that’s why people are vulnerable to wellness culture in a lot of cases, why they’re attracted to it and oftentimes there still is a better evidence base and better care that you can find, if you can sort of wade through some of like the weight stigma and the other stuff that, that is often there. There’s a method that I really like called the Sift Method, which is developed by Mike Caulfield, who’s a researcher at the University of Washington who studies media literacy. And that stands for four Steps. So it’s stop, investigate the source, find better coverage, and trace claims quotes in media back to their original context. And so with wellness claims, wellness culture stuff that you might encounter, especially on social media, stop, just take a breath, don’t share, don’t act, don’t spread the information. Even spreading, sharing content to say, look at this bogus thing, can actually spread it farther to vulnerable audiences. So really just thinking about quarantining the misinformation or the potential misinformation, not spreading it until you’ve investigated. Then investigating the source. look into who’s sharing that content, who’s responsible, who tends to benefit, what their credentials are and their reputation is. And just because, someone is like selling something doesn’t mean they’re automatically wrong or spreading misinformation, right? Everybody has to make money in this capitalistic system, but you know, it’s helpful to take into account like what their agenda might be. Then, finding better coverage means, if you don’t necessarily trust the source of the information, or even if you do, but you just want like a second or third opinion and they’re saying something unusual, look for other coverage and see what other reputable sources or just reputable sources in general are saying on the subject.The concept of reputable can feel really tricky in this day and age because mainstream media has been really denigrated in certain corners and science does have its problems and stuff. But I think,thinking about mainstream news outlets, the fact that they’re held journalistic standards and they could actually be sued for making false or unsubstantiated claims. So they’re often a good source for information and cross-referencing information and claims that seem too good to be true because, lawyers would definitely, like block the publication of certain things if it was, not true. Right. Mainstream media outlets also tend to be really interested in health and wellness information and health and wellness trends. And speaking as a journalist who, got her start in health and wellness reporting, when I was like very disordered myself and looking for diet advice and wanting to lose weight and all of the things, journalists in this space I think are very interested in quote unquote natural methods or healing things with food. Like, if there was something that was that good, journalists in that space would be all over it if it was really true. Right? If there was like, an effective alternative to chemotherapy for cancer, or a natural method for treating ibs or whatever it is, so if they’re not covering something, I think that could be a good sign that, it’s the science isn’t really there, right? And then finally tracing claims, quotes, and media back to their original context, just thinking about,whether the scientific references are really there to support something, as I said. Or whether citations are being taken out of context or sometimes entirely fabricated. And if there aren’t any legitimate outside sources that are being cited, that’s also a red flag. So if someone is like, have it on authority from a spirit that, doing this thing is gonna help you, which, like the medical medium has said about celery juice. It’s like, like the spirit tells me that celery juice is gonna heal all your ills and science just hasn’t caught up with it yet. So yeah, don’t worry about the fact that there’s no science. I’m the one to trust. Like that’s a huge red flag, I think head for the hills when you know someone is making a claim like that. And then one other thing to think about is just noticing the emotions that come up in you when you’re reading and absorbing content. [Mm-hmm] You know, if you end up feeling fearful, anxious, activated, feeling like I have to do this now, this is the key, this is the solution. Or you have this sort of outsized sense of hope, like this is finally gonna be the thing that cures all my ills but you can’t verify the facts and you’ve like done this sift method and you’re like, I don’t know, I’m a little skeptical, nobody else reputable seems to be reporting on this, it’s just this one person don’t know if they have great credentials, I think be really aware that manipulation might be afoot in sort of how they’re trying to stir up your emotions and get you to act.

Stephanie: In talking about this, in reading the book, the other piece that really struck me is the concept of wellbeing, which is in part where we’re talking here, wellbeing versus wellness. And can you share your perspective on that and how it informs what we can do then. If it’s not to buy into this claim, how can we approach wellness from a different land?

Christy: Yeah, that’s such a good question. I really see wellbeing as,in a way, the antithesis of wellness, right? So, wellness is about optimization and constantly striving, and you can never quite get there. It’s this thing that’s always like receding in the distance. And wellbeing is more about acceptance, doing the best you have with what you’ve got, doing your best to find some measure of like mental and emotional and social support and feeling as connected as possible to people around you and having like, a more holistic sense of wellbeing than just pursuing this physical thing and constantly trying to optimize. Cause I think wellness culture really, it, it talks a big game about being holistic, but actually it’s really prioritizing the physical and it takes away so much from the mental and emotional and social aspects of our wellbeing.

Christy: So, pursuing wellbeing I think is about kind of coming back to those more truly holistic aspects of ourselves and our connections with others and our wellbeing. And so, I think pursuing wellbeing is what we ultimately need to be striving for at the social level, at the societal level, supporting people’s wellbeing, not putting so much emphasis on individual behaviors and shaming people for what they do and don’t do. We need to be emphasizing social determinants of health more and sort of thinking about ways of collectively caring for people and not just putting it all onthe individual shoulders. And that’s a really tall order I know in this society because, for so many reasons and so many historical roots of this. America and the western, western culture in general, I think is very individualistic and very shaming of people who have illness or struggle in some way or have disabilities or are larger bodied and all of those things.

Christy: So, it’s a really is a tall order at the societal level, but I think we can work towards that. And as individuals we can just do our best to bring some measure of acceptance and thinking about mental and emotional wellbeing as sort of primary and not prioritizing the physical over and above that.

Stephanie: What for me has, and I’ll get Jonie to go after that, but what for me wellbeing meant is that true quote, holistic nature, like mental and wellness, and what I have seen in my practice is that people move from that culture to wellness culture, finding the solution in wellness culture, that it’s still physical. [Mm-hmm] And when you can think about wellbeing and the way you’re presenting it in the book, you’re really, kind of have to dig into what you’ve been avoiding all along, which is mental and emotional and spiritual wellbeing beyond the physical body.

Christy: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that’s really hard and that’s something that, you know, people with disordered eating, [yes] sometimes they’re trying to outrun, right? [Yes.] Disordered eating has benefits in some ways to people, or it’s a coping skill. It’s a coping method that people have developed for difficult things in their lives and a way of trying to control situations that might feel out of control and to find some measure of relief from outside forces like weight stigma and [Yeah] other forms of discrimination. It’s a way of trying to like combat some of those forces. And so, when you drop that and when you drop the pursuit of wellness and optimization, I think sometimes you’re faced with like this overwhelming fear and anxiety and pain and just grief that comes from feeling like, I don’t know how to sort of fight back against these forces within me and outside of myself, and it can feel really, really painful.

Joni: So I think finding support for that in whatever way that looks like, it could be finding a great mental health therapist, which I know can be a process and involves access issues for a lot of people. It can mean leaning on your community and finding people in your life who get it, connecting with people online and maybe forming some offline relationships from that, doing your best to get connected with others who can support you. And really, I think therapy is amazing and has been so healing and important in my life that people who can and have access to therapy, just putting in that unfortunate work to like, of trial and error to find the right therapist, I think can have really immense payoffs too. So Christie, everything you just said, there’s so, so much good information. I wish we had all day to talk about this. Some of the things that you brought up, about individual responsibility and dubious diagnoses, I know that they’re two different topics, but they’re so intertwined, I think.Somebody goes to the doctor and they’re presented with this diagnosis, that just doesn’t seem quite right, or it may have been given hastily without a lot of diagnostic testing and follow up, then we’re faced with this weight stigma and this anti-fat bias in the medical community. And a lot of it then just comes back onto us as an individual, right? So both wellness culture, diet culture, they seem to both push this idea that we’re solely responsible for all aspects of our health and wellbeing. And that nosha can really feel insurmountable. It can and feel like such a burden that leads to feelings of moral failure and thoughts like, I’m not good enough, I’m not strong enough, I don’t have enough willpower or commitment. And that list can go on and on. And those feelings often get reinforced, like you said, by families, social circles, even in the medical community. Right.

Joni: So yeah, so how can someone just really kind of advocate for themselves in order to be heard and understood and taken seriously and provided appropriate testing and care in the medical setting, when they’re faced with all of these factors. And what else is at play here besides just, you know,this is all your responsibility and this is all your fault, that you’re in this, that you’re in this situation.

Joni: So if we’re working with people who we wanna kind of help free them from that, from the grip of that individual responsibility, can you share a little bit about what other factors are affecting the health and wellbeing that are not in the individual person’s control?

Christy: Sure, yeah. So, genetics plays a huge, huge role in chronic conditions that people might have, in people’s weight and body size, that’s really largely heritable and largely determined by genetics. And then, people’s social determinants of health I think can also really have an impact on their health outcomes, on chronic conditions, on the health challenges that they might face. So, there’s research at the population level showing that 70% of population health outcomes are attributable to social determinants, like housing security, food security, income level, education level, experiences of discrimination and racism that they might face in the world,access to healthcare, all of these things that are affecting the conditions in which people live and can affect their wellbeing.

Christy: And so just being aware of that and being compassionate with yourself for the fact that those things are so influential in our lives and that only 30% of health population, health outcomes are attributable to all behaviors and then only 10% to food and exercise combined. And I think that number really staggers a lot of people because they might think, you know, in a wellness culture, we’re sort of conditioned to believe that like 90% of the pie is food and exercise, right? And that like maybe only 10% is other things, and it’s actually the reverse, you know? And so recognizing that we have so much less control over our outcomes then we are led to believe and very little control when it comes to food and exercise and that if someone is proposing those things as the solution to all your problems, it’s really missing the bigger picture here. It’s really missing this context of what goes into our wellbeing, kind of on average as a whole. And, if you can find a healthcare provider who is empathetic and willing to set aside some of their own biases, maybe set asidepressure to put you on a diet or lose weight and look at other factors that could be contributing to what’s going on for you, and look at solutions that don’t have anything to do with weight loss or diets. In many cases there are, really I thinkto me, pretty much in all cases there are solutions that can be adopted and practices that people can do to promote their wellbeing that have nothing to do with losing weight or with going on a restrictive diet, but that can maybe bring some measure of relief. And I know that there are chronic conditions that are really understudied and populations that are really underserved and certain conditions are contested and like don’t have a lot of great evidence or support, or you might even get doctors sort of being skeptical that even exists. And in some cases there are things that don’t really exist, like supposed adrenal fatigue or chronic Canada or things like that, that are like sort of wellness cultures invented terms. But if you think you have that, it’s not that you don’t have anything. It’s like you, you have a real problem. There’s things that really need, you really deserve help for what you’re going through. And what you’re going through is real, and your symptoms are real, but the label that you’ve gotten for them is wrong and it’s been misidentified and so you deserve to get actual support and actual diagnosis for what’s really ailing you.

Christy: And I know that can take years in some cases and a lot of trial and error and working with different providers and we shouldn’t have to do that. We shouldn’t have to go through all that to get the appropriate care. But unfortunately, that’s the system we’re in right now. And again, that’s where wellness culture sort of preys on people’s vulnerabilities, I think. Because the system is so broken in so many ways, there’s a real void where good healthcare should be for many people. And so that’s where, people start getting seduced by or sucked into these wellness paradigms that, are just leading them in the opposite direction of where they wanna be going, of the healing that they seek.

Christy: And so think it’s really complicated and I have so much empathy and compassion for people going through it. And I just wanna sort of put in a plug for like, continuing to push and continuing to try to get the care that you need and deserve to the extent that you’re able to with whatever else you’ve got going on, symptom-wise and stuff like, there are really empathetic providers out there who at the very least will agree to say, okay, I’m not gonna talk about your weight, I’m not gonna put you on a diet. Let’s look at other potential solutions for this. Or who maybe are like beyond that, just super empathetic providers who are willing to do a lot of work and testing and keep supporting you as you find what’s gonna work for you. [Mm-hmm.] So, it’s again super complicated and I wish everybody had access to the kind of empathetic providers that I’ve eventually been able to find after two decades of like going through different providers and working to find a good team.

Christy: And if I move or go on a different insurance, I might lose them, right? So it’s like, it’s all very precarious in this healthcare system. But I think that’s what we’re really aiming for is to find that sort of team that’s gonna be empathetic and compassionate and not put us on diets or promote weight loss, or stigmatize people for the size and shape of their bodies and actually give evidence-based care for the things that we are struggling with.

Stephanie: Did you have a last question, Joanie? Because we need to wrap this up at this point.

 

Joni: You know what, I just wanted to, there was something you said in your book at the very end you talk about healing from wellness culture and I just wanna kind of add this in because I think it’s important for people to hear. I think they’re gonna hear themselves in something that you said in the book. So, and I’ve been working with clients for a long time on unlearning and healing from the harms of diet culture and I imagine that is similar to healing and unlearning wellness culture. [Mm-hmm.] But specifically, you stated in the book that at some level you thought you needed to be free from symptoms and functioning optimally in order to be worthy. And that deep down you felt that you needed to completely erase your chronic conditions in order to fulfill and live the life that you had driven for yourself. So this resonates deeply with me. I’m sure it resonates with a lot of people listening who are already susceptible to all or nothing thinking, or black and white thinking and perfectionism.

Joni: [Mm-hmm.] So if you could share your biggest takeaway on how you began to kind of live in that gray zone of imperfection, I think that would be helpful for some of our listeners to hear.

Christy: Yeah. It’s been such a winding path and I think it didn’t happen overnight. So it takes work and it takes practice and support, but I think it was just this like little by little letting go of, for me, it started with food, right, started with letting go of the perfectionism about food and letting myself be a little more and letting myself, of be aware of and honor my hungers, my desires, my satisfactions, and starting to trust my body more through that process and just knowing that like, my body is gonna have these consistent ways of making its, or eventually consistent, right? Sometimes they’re very inconsistent, but my body’s gonna have ways of making its needs known. And if I listen to them and fill those needs, I’m gonna feel good. My body’s gonna thank me in some way. And that took a lot of time to get to that point, I think. But then, sort of starting to become aware of that at an embodied level [mm-hmm] helped me also become aware of like, Other ways that I was being perfectionistic and holding on really tight and forcing myself to do things that were, not listening to my body’s needs, right. Pushing myself beyond my limits, not getting enough rest, not taking the downtime I need as someone who’s like, got mental health challenges as well and introverted and just needs to cocoon sometimes, and starting to accept those things about myself through talking to other people who went through similar challenges, reading,consuming content from other people who struggle with similar issues and realizing that like feeling at peace with myself and having a certain measure of wellbeing, well, a isn’t gonna be consistent through all time, like I’m gonna have ups and downs with that and sometimes I’m not gonna feel at peace with myself and I’m gonna feel frustrated with my conditions and maybe lack of ability to do things that other people can do and compare myself and all that stuff. But, but recognizing that like in order to feel some measure of greater peace, I don’t need to be entirely symptom free or medication free or disease free, right? That it’s possible to be in a state of relative wellbeing even while living with chronic conditions and managing them and doing my best to just take care of my body and make accommodations for it and recognize its limitations and embrace those things actually, right? Like, to get to at least a place of neutrality with them was one thing. but then to get to a place of like real care and compassion for myself in struggling with those challenges, I think was kind of another level of healing.

Christy: And so it’s not easy. It’s, it takes a lot, I think, of constant effort and work to, to remind yourself of that acceptance that you need to have for yourself. But, over time and with enough practice and support, I really was able to let go of so much of that perfectionism about my wellbeing and wellness in general and not get so caught up in things that purported to make me symptom free or reverse disease or put things into remission. I’ve stopped believing in those magic bullets and started to really just accept that these are things I’m gonna live with and I don’t know why I have them really. Some of them are genetic, some of them who knows. But,this is what it is. This is what I’ve been given, this is the body I live with, and there are strengths to it and there are limitations to it, and I’m gonna do my best to embrace all of it.

Stephanie: I just kept shook my hand. I’ve been, I’ve been singing that song for years now because I have chronic pain as well, and people always want to know like how, why are you seem to be living a full life and somewhat happy? [Mm-hmm.] It’s not because I found the magic pill. [Mm-hmm.] It’s because I’ve accepted that my life is with chronic pain. [Mm-hmm.] So thank you for saying that out loud.

Stephanie: I’m going to wrap us up and say thank you so much, Christie, for being here and highly recommend the book. We are gonna link it in the show notes. I think it’s a game changer and it can not in the sense that wellness culture one tell you can change your life, but it can really change your perspective on life.

Christy: Hmm. Thank you so much.

Stephanie: Thank you.

read more
360-Shopping & Styling Your Wardrobe After Stopping Dieting with Plus Size Styling Coach Liz Thogerson

360-Shopping & Styling Your Wardrobe After Stopping Dieting with Plus Size Styling Coach Liz Thogerson

Shopping & styling your wardrobe after stopping dieting

Shopping & styling your wardrobe after stopping dieting

It’s natural that as you learn to accept your body, the desire to express yourself becomes stronger. There are many ways you can do that; dance, singing, art and for some of us, it’s through our clothing. 

Finding clothes that fit your body, wearing bold colors and patterns, and styles that you’re comfortable in can be a beautiful way to honor the fact that you deserve to take up space. 

Listen to Liz from Rise Styling as she shares how she helps her clients use their style biology to help them take conscious style risks, build a wardrobe, and celebrate themselves daily. She also shares ways on how to do shopping after stopping dieting.

She will also share that her personal journey in dressing more authentically has helped her be a better mom, a better partner, more compassionate to other people, become more articulate and less afraid to speak her mind.

What you’ll learn listening to this episode on Shopping & styling your wardrobe after stopping dieting:

  • Why it can be difficult to let go of items that no longer fit
  • Steps you can take to replace items in your closet that no longer serve you
  • A body-neutral, anti-diet stylist’s approach to helping you use your innate style traits to help you take conscious style risks, build a wardrobe, and celebrate yourself every day
  • The profound benefits of accepting your body and learning to dress authentically 

Mentioned in the show: 

The Wheel of Style Freebie from Liz

Health Habits Checklist

Rebellious Eating Solution Webinar

Quiz: Is it you or your diet?

Undiet Your Life Program

Non-Diet Coaching Certification

Connect with our guest:

Website – Liz Thogerson

Instagram – Liz Thogerson

Facebook – Liz Thogerson

Transcript

Going Beyond The Food Show Ep360-Shopping & Styling Your Wardrobe After Stopping Dieting with Liz Thogerson

This is episode 360 of The Beyond the Food Show and today, I have a treat for all of you that are struggling with dressing up your body, anything to do with wardrobe, styling, and clothing specifically in the post phase of UND dieting Your life. We have a special guest: plus size styling coach, Liz, that’s gonna walk us through what we can do step by step. Stay tuned.

Hello my sisters and welcome back to the podcast. Today is a special request podcast from one of you listening right now, and you know who you are. We have been conversing on, I think was on the Instagram, on the DM side of it, and that was one of your requests: styling, shopping, dressing up your body after having indicted your life.

And I know from hearing from other of you inside of my program, that’s a real, real thing, something that many of us, myself included, have to relearn to do, how to dress up our now body. And I was introduced to someone perhaps six weeks ago, and I just fell in love with her. Her name is Liz, so I asked her to come onto the podcast and talk to us about that. What is really unique about Liz is that she has the same journey as all of us here. She uniced her own life listening to this podcast by the way. What I didn’t know when I started to talk with her is that she’s a longtime listener of this podcast, going beyond the Food Show. And she’s been listening and doing the work, and she’s Ted, her life. She’s a body nurture person, she’s an intuitive eater, and she has moved that into her business. So as a style coach, as a plus size body style coach, she helps you your closet, I guess.

Anyway, I’m gonna ask my team to roll in the interview. I think it’s brilliant. Go get her three B. She has something called the wheel of style. We’ve put the link in the show note. I think it would be a great first step for you if that is the next step in your journey. Enjoy. ​

Stephanie: Welcome to the podcast, Liz.

Liz: Thank you, Stephanie. I’m very happy to be here.

Stephanie: I’m excited to put a face on the DM conversation. [ Me too.] This conversation we’re gonna have today was driven by one of my student who sent me a DM about clothes that I was wearing, was asking me how did I create my wardrobe, and I’m like, well, I just do.

Stephanie: But I’m not the best person to answer those questions, and you happen to show up in my feet. I’m like, oh, this person, this person can help me. And here we are, four to five weeks later, we’re having a conversation about helping you, listener, I guess come into your style, come into yourself, to your style. Is that a great way of saying what you do?

Liz: Absolutely. Absolutely. What I do is I use your innate style traits, your style biology to help you take conscious style risks, build a wardrobe, and celebrate yourself every day.

Stephanie: This is amazing. And for those who you’ll know, Liz, after the show when you go and follow her, but she’s in a larger body, so she’s not like in the 10 ideals and she’s stylish and she coaches people in larger bodies. So you guys, she is your person you want to go and follow.

Stephanie: So here’s a question that started the conversation and then we can start from there. One of our tool that we use in body neutrality is the circumstance of our closet. [Mm-hmm.] And nearly all of my client that do my program have a section of their closet, that’s like the thin version of themselves and the expansive clothes and all the tools of the bass and it’s there. [Mm-hmm.] And every time they walk into their closet, it’s like a trauma happening. Every morning, they see that part of their closet and it’s almost impossible to get rid of the stuff and bring new clothes in.

Stephanie: [ Yes.] How can you help us with that? Can you walk us through that?

Liz: This circumstance you’re describing is so common. It’s so, so common. I see it all the time. Almost all of us have at least one piece, but many of us have many pieces that do not fit, are never going to fit again, and we just can’t let it go.

Liz: So, I approach this in several ways with my clients. I have them reflect back to their core values, which we define at the beginning of our process together. And I have everyone established three core value words that are going to guide all of our actions throughout our coaching journey. And almost never is someone’s core value word thinness or attractiveness or desirability or restriction or anything, even remotely approaching those words. And there are usually two reasons why we hold onto these things, one of which is what I call the motivation fallacy. Either we think that this collection of clothing is going to somehow motivate us to lose the weight so that we can get back into those clothes, which I then remind my clients, when was the last time bullying got you a desired result in your life, because that’s what’s happening here.

Liz: Or the second circumstance under which these clothes tend to accumulate is what I call or what I refer to as scarcity mindset, which can affect many areas of our life. But we’ve found this piece, it fit at one time, we loved wearing it, maybe we made some special memories in it, and we attached this finality this, this finite amount of possibilities and we attach it to this garment of clothing.

Liz: And that’s very limiting. It’s very limiting in our beliefs. It’s very limiting in the utility of this item. And I just remind people like, this is not your only piece of the pie. Trust yourself to have the resources and to be brave and to be curious about replacing this item with something that’s actually going to serve you now. Cherish those memories that were attached to that piece for what they were. Be grateful for that, and also trust yourself to let that go and believe that more of that joy and more of those experience are all ahead of you. There’s more ahead. We don’t need to live in the past, and that’s what we do a lot with our clothes.

Stephanie: I love that because it is in parts, carc city mindset and that’s what DIA culture does. Right. The not enough syndrome. I always say how we do one thing is how we do everything, and you just now taught me that it shows up into your closet and the way you deal with clothes in the same way it was with food and the body size and the finances. It’s just, it’s the how we do one thing is how we do everything.

Liz: Yeah. Absolutely. I tell people all the time, it’s so not just about the clothes. It’s about your life, how you talk to yourself, how you function, and what you believe to be true.

Stephanie: So, let’s go to the next step then. The person starts releasing, the woman starts releasing the clothes, the next level of question we get, so how do we go about investing, buying more clothes and having all the old thoughts, you shouldn’t be buying that, and oh my God, I’m this size, I didn’t realize I was this size and I don’t know how to dress myself and everything is ugly. And I’m sure you can give me more thoughts, but all those thoughts happen. How would you coach us through that?

Liz: So luckily, before we would even get to the point of purchasing new items, we are going to establish unique criteria for each person that’s dedicated to the innate style traits that are already in you. So we’ve, we know your colors, we know your body architecture, and we know your style archetypes, which are kind of your personality in clothing form.

Liz: So when we are choosing clothes, we have these very tangible criteria that we’re measuring clothing against so that when you are investing, you know you’re purchasing the correct piece. [Okay.] And that is what gives my clients a little bit of permission to take some risks because they have done that work upfront to feel secure in their choices.

Liz: But let’s say, you haven’t had your style biology done yet. You know, talking to your listeners right now, you haven’t defined your style biology, but you know you need some clothes. I want you to commit to yourself that you deserve to feel comfortable, you deserve to have clothes that are motivating you out the door to experience the experiences that life has to offer for you.

Liz: If your clothes don’t fit, if they’re too frumpy and sloppy and loungy, that’s going to motivate you to do what? Stay at home behind closed doors. Stay on the couch, say no to that date, say no to that dinner. You deserve the pieces that are going to make it easier for you to say yes to everything that life has to offer. So if you think about the, what you’ll be doing in these clothes, hopefully that will make it a little bit easier for you to take the leap and take the plunge.

Stephanie: Yeah. It’s like an added layer of safety, an added layer of direction towards what you want in your life. [Right? Exactly.]

Stephanie: So as a coach and nutritionist, which has, I’m not a stylist clearly, so here’s the advice I was giving to women. Tell me if it’s right or wrong. People that were afraid of investing, I would say, okay, go to a store like without naming it, Old Navy, like a lower price bracket, [mm-hmm] and at at least buy stuff that you’re gonna feel comfortable in.

Stephanie: Let’s hit that bracket of at least you won’t feel tugging and pulling and then you can think about like more expensive piece and like more stylish piece later. Was that good or I actually got them into the wrong direction?

Liz: No, that’s exactly perfect. Starting with some comfortable basics that fit properly, that are the correct size, that is like the foundation that needs to be laid before, before we add the, the fun sparkles and sprinkles. [Pink blazer] Yes, [I’m wearing today] a pink blazer. Yes, exactly. That’s great advice.

Stephanie: And the other question I want you to answer or help us understand is when we go to that store and we start like going into the fitting room and putting the clothes on, there’s all kinds of critical thoughts that come in about why I shouldn’t be this size and why am like, it’s almost like, and I went through that phase where we needed two x, we’re gonna try to make ourselves fit in the one X, not just, not to put the two x on. Have you experienced that or had to coach people through that?

Liz: Absolutely. Absolutely. Trying to make something work that isn’t working [yes] is the quickest way, right back to dissatisfaction with your closet. That is like a one way ticket to hating your closet all over again. So it’s a very similar self conversation that needs to happen just like when we’re relearning how to eat or how to avoid that tempting new diet. [Mm-hmm.] It’s, you know, putting kind of a stake in the ground and looking yourself in the eye, in the mirror and saying, no, I’m not doing this anymore. What has gotten me here is not going to get me where I want to go. And, you can make that choice to not entertain those, that negative self-talk. You can make the choice to believe your next thought. That’s what I coach my client on. What’s your follow up thought to thinking, man, I wish I didn’t have to have this size. You get to pick that second thought, and I would hope that that second thought is, but I deserve to feel comfortable. I deserve clothes that fit me properly, and I’m not going back to that old way.

Stephanie: That’s beautiful. And I wanted to say, as you were saying those things, then perhaps the next level is when you feel comfortable with those basic is how can I express myself to my close [yes]. I’m at that stage now, like I’m ahead of all my clients, obviously, but I’m at the place where close serves a form of expression. [Absolutely. It does.] Like it speaks for me when I walk into a room.

Liz: Yes, yes. That’s exactly right. I ask all of my clients, how do you want people to feel when they see you coming?

Stephanie: Oh, I like that question.

Liz: Yeah. You haven’t opened your mouth yet, but they see you coming. How do you want them to feel about that? And also,I could talk all day about how clothes are a form of self-expression, but we all have different, kind of different goals for how we want to affect those around us. And we have different goals about how we want to feel. So I just encourage everybody to see if you can treat getting dressed like playtime.

Liz: It’s [ooh, that’s cheesy] might, it might have been a while since we had fun getting dressed and that may feel very foreign and out of practice. But I think it’s incredibly useful to channel your inner child a little bit and let him or her or them call the shots a little bit when you’re getting dressed.

Liz: And if you wanna wear the cat socks, wear the cat socks. Let your inner child dress you for a day or two and see how that feels.

Stephanie: Yeah. And it’s also the part of taking back our space, whatever space it is for you. Right. Claiming back your space. Because often if I turn back to years ago, it was like my closet was black. [Mm-hmm.] Right? Because I wanted to disappear, like I wanted to blend in and to make myself take less space. Where now my clothes are about taking place, like claiming the space and occupying space and getting people to turn in. And I get that’s not the goal of everyone, but what space do you need, I guess would be the questions.

Liz: Mm-hmm. Absolutely. I’m really glad you brought up, color is such a powerful tool in your self celebration, understanding your place in the world. I know when I had my formal personal color analysis, i was shocked and I had a grieving process to let go of my fuzzy muted gray colors, but it turns out I need these bright, splashy rainbow cartoon bright colors, and that felt very scary for me.

Liz: But I embraced the process and it ended up, my colors taught me a lot about what it is to show up brighter, bigger, to be noticeable, to attract attention more often, and to trust that I can handle that and that I am capable of handling that level of, yeah, taking up space and being a little bit louder.

Liz: Yes, absolutely. And it was a very valuable experience that I did not expect at all from having my colors done.

Stephanie: Well, I was gonna ask for those people listening that are like middle stages or later stages where it’s about finding their star biology, and we’ll talk a little bit about your method in a bit here, but how did that help you find your career, your goals. How did your clothing and expressing yourself and your clothing helped other part of your life?

Liz: Mm-hmm. Wow, so many ways. Let’s see if I can pick just a few. I think, due to the timing in my life when I was starting to explore my style, starting to train as a personal stylist, was around the same time that I discovered intuitive eating.

Liz: So I went through this very profound personal transformation on the inside at the same time that I was going through this transformation on the outside. And I feel very fortunate that those two, kind of catalysts for change in my life kind of occurred at the same time. Because right around the time that I was accepting my body for the size and the shape that it is, I was also learning how to dress it at the same time.

Liz: [Oh.] And I think that those two, the partnership of learning those two sides of myself, was extremely powerful. But to answer your question, dressing more authentically has helped me be a better mom. It’s helped me be a better partner. It’s helped me be more compassionate to other people. It’s helped me to become more articulate, a little braver. I’m less afraid to speak my mind. I’m less afraid to volunteer for opportunities. I’m more open to like serendipitous occurrences, like speaking with you today, meeting you on the internet and becoming friends. Because I’ve learned that there’s a place for me in the world and I’m allowed to enjoy that. I’m allowed to enjoy my place in the world. And I think clothing did that for me.

Stephanie: We are allowed to express ourselves, and it doesn’t have to be through clothes. But for those of you who want it to be through clothes, there’s a process and a path for that. You can express yourself through other form of art, could be dancing, singing, but for some of us, it’s clothing.

Stephanie: And if you are someone who has gone through the process of accepting their body and wants to express themselves through clothing, I think, to me, when I look at your business, when I hear you talk, you are the best person that’s the most equipped to help my listener and my clients find what you called their sta biology and express themselves because you’ve been there.

Liz: Yeah. Yeah. Thank you for saying that. That’s what I’m passionate about. I am a body neutral anti-d diet stylist. I’m very careful about the language I use with my clients. I am never going to try and slim you with your clothes. I don’t use the word elongating or slimming or flattering.

Liz: It’s all about your actual values, of which I doubt looking as slim as possible is one of them. So I really try and I make a very conscious effort to make my coaching a safe space for women who are dealing with the heavy work of accepting themselves, embracing a more positive body image. And I think going through your closet with a loving, supportive professional, just like relearning your eating and indicting your life with a supportive, loving professional, brings about really profound change that can last a lifetime. [Yeah, absolutely.] Yep.

Liz: So I,I really tailor my programs to meet my clients exactly where they are, wherever they are, and to kind of collapse time between where they are and where they want to be with their aesthetic expression.

Stephanie: I love that, collapsing the time. Mike, you can do it on your own, but you can also do it in a much simpler, faster way through your process. The same thing for me. I mean, you can learn intuitive eating on your own or you can do it with us and we’re gonna do it in twice as less amount of time in misery and suffering.

Liz: Yes, yes, exactly. Yes, exactly.

Stephanie: Talk to us about how you help people. I know you have their methodology, style, biology method, but what does that look like for anybody interested listening to the podcast?

Liz: Sure. So there are three pillars of style biology. The first pillar is your personal coloring. I do color analysis [Ooh] for all of my clients. Yes. So if you’ve heard of color analysis, that’s the art and science of determining your season. They’re named after the seasons of the year, summer, autumn, winter, spring. So all of my clients learn their season.

Liz: The second pillar of style biology is your body architecture. So I don’t like to talk, I don’t say body types. I don’t call you a fruit shape. I don’t call you anani object shape. We use geometry. We’re talking about angles, we’re talking about curves, we’re talking about shapes and the tension of clothes and how your clothes are going to behave on your specific body architecture. And I make sure all of my clients know that the way they were built is correct. [Mm-hmm.] It’s not an accident and it’s a result of generations and generations of miracles to get you here on this planet, at this moment. And I think that’s pretty special. So we go into depth about your body architecture so that you can understand how clothes are gonna behave.

Liz: And then the third pillar is your style archetypes, which is kind of a fancy way of saying your personality translated into clothing language. [Oh] So we’re all, yeah, so we’re all drawn to certain details, certain shapes, certain angles and textures, patterns, things like that. And that’s all part of our personality. There’s a direct link between how you live and what you’re drawn to visually.

Liz: So once we have those three pillars in place, we have a very clear list of criteria to look for items that are in the right colors for you, that are gonna behave on your body and have those details that make your heart smile. [Yeah.] Once we do that, I walk you through editing your closet very intentionally, very systematically [Yeah] with a hand to hold and to support you all along the way because, we all know that can be an emotional process. And then once we’re done editing your closet, we have a very clear plan. Together of where your gaps are that have critical pieces that need to be filled in. And as your personal shopper, I become your, you and I become a client stylist team to fill in those gaps in order of priority very consciously, according to your budget, so that it makes sense for you. And then you’re left with a closet full of clothes that feel like you’re best friends, that you’re excited to wear.

Stephanie: Okay. I want you to say one thing. The other thing I hear a lot about is I don’t know where to shop. There’s not a lot of choice, and we’re talking about Canada and US mainly people. Can you say, is that true or not?

Liz: We live in magical times where you can get on the internet and a little box or a big box can show up on your doorstep full of treasures that are exactly right for you. So, does it take a little bit of sleuthing, a little bit of trial and error, a little bit of bravery to try some new things in order from some new places? Absolutely. But there are myriad options for every style, every size, every personal coloring out there, and that is my, this is the hill I die on. If you have a body, there is beautiful style for you.

Stephanie: And you are there to help your client, direct them to some spots for them to do that shopping, like they don’t have to go and search the internet, you’ll direct them where they can go.

Liz: Yep. Not only that, I will pick the exact item that I want you to order.

Stephanie: Whoa. I know this is not something that’s accessible to everybody, but if it’s something that’s financially accessible to you, do you know how your life is easy? I had to go through three years of like return and not fitting and like, oh my God, that doesn’t fit. Find the tree stores now that I know and I order peace, it’s gonna fit on me in that size.

Liz: Yeah. That’s right. Now the average woman has over $3,000, US dollars of unwearable clothes [Yeah] in her closet. And my promise to my clients is that you will end the buying mistakes by the time I am done with you.

Stephanie: So you invest upfront [mm-hmm] and then you get your system of what you should and shouldn’t buy, wear what you need, and you end up having a better closet that fits you, that express you and it costs you less.

Liz: That’s right. Style is innate and style skills are teachable. You have everything you need inside of you right now and the capabilities to learn the rest. And that’s what I do, is I teach you the skills that you need so that you can, so that my goal is that you won’t need me after we’re done together. I want you to be able to take the reins and trust your own voice even more than you trust mine.

Stephanie: And I’m gonna add Anne, no matter what the size of your body is. [That’s right.] Because we hear that, like stylists like you talk, and then we land on their website and it’s just young 10 body, and we’re like, like no. Like this is an offer for people in all body size and if you’re in the larger body, she’s in the larger body and she can do all of that for you. And you’re not an exception. You’re not gonna feel like an exception to the rule.

Liz: That’s right. Yep.

Stephanie: That’s beautiful. Where can people find you?

Liz: You can find me on Instagram. My handle is at rise dot styling and you can find me [email protected].

Stephanie: Thank you. Anything you wanna mention that you think is important before we end this interview?

Liz: If I could impart one thing, if there was one thing I wanted everyone to take away, it’s that we have one life and the way you dress yourself is the way you think about yourself.

Liz: So if you open your closet and see a disconnect between what you know to be true about yourself and what you’re seeing, come talk to me, [yeah] doesn’t have to be that way. [Pull that gap.] Yeah, that’s exactly right. We can close that gap.

Stephanie: Thank you, Liz.

Liz: Thank you, Stephanie.

read more
359-Overcoming Chronic Pain with the Non-Diet Approach with Dr. Andrea Moore

359-Overcoming Chronic Pain with the Non-Diet Approach with Dr. Andrea Moore

Overcoming chronic pain with the non-diet approach

That it is knee pain, back pain or fibromyalgia many women suffer in silence with chronic pain. They choose to suffer in silence as when they did speak up and ask for help they were meet with weight stigma.

Overcoming chronic pain with the non-diet approach 

“Just lose weight”

“The pain would go away if your body weight wasn’t so heavy”

“ This pain is a sign that your body isn’t healthy… you need to lose weight”.

It doesn’t have to be this way. Healing chronic pain doesn’t have to be about weight loss and in fact many forms of chronic pain will NOT be healed with weight loss.

There are as many people with chronic pain in smaller bodies than in larger body… so if weight loss isn’t the solution, then what is?

In this episode we have guest expert Dr. Andrea Moore Chronic Pain Specialist. 

What you’ll learn listening to this episode on overcoming chronic pain with the non-diet approach:

  • Why pain is a necessary experience for human
  • The problem is not the pain but how we experience the pain
  • Stephanie journey’s through Dr.Andrea’s process to overcome chronic pain.
  • The 3 day free event from Dr. Andrea to learn how to break the cycle of chronic pain so you can reduce pain levels by 50% 

Mentioned in the show: 

Health Habits Checklist

Rebellious Eating Solution Webinar

Quiz: Is it you or your diet?

Undiet Your Life Program

Non-Diet Coaching Certification

Connect with our guest:

Website – Dr. Andrea Moore

Instagram – Dr. Andrea Moore

Free 3 days experience with Andrea

Transcript

Going Beyond The Food Show Episode 359 – Overcoming Chronic Pain with the Non-Diet Approach with Dr. Andrea Moore

This is episode 359 of the Beyond the Food Show

and today we’re gonna talk about chronic painand how to overcome and reduce chronic pain in a non diet way, because many of us have been told that if we quote just lose weight, our pain will go away. My guest expert today as a whole different perspective, you ready stay tuned.

Hello my sisters and welcome back. This is a special episode. I have been looking for an expert to enlight us on chronic pain for more than five years. And today is the day after 357 episode that I’m bringing you, this magical person. Her name is Dr. Andrea Moore and her entire specialty revolves around chronic pain. Now, I wanna catch that very wide on this because her approach,a non-AI approach to chronic pain, catches all forms of chronic pain, that it is knee pain, low back pain, that it is fibromyalgia pain or idiopathic pain, pain without a cause. Her approach, her doctorate thesis on pain is about helping you find the solution and first, find the reason why you’re experiencing that pain and then overcoming that pain.

I’m so excited to share with you this conversation. For some of you who’ve been listening to the podcast for a long time, you know my personal journey with chronic pain. I have been exposed to chronic pain since my mid twenties and I use my personal story in this interview with Andrea to really bring it to a concrete level of how I have changed my relationship to pain, reduced the pain that I’m experiencing every day, and Andrea sharing how she’s approaching it as well.

I have to tell you this: my personal journey to overcoming healing chronic pain has been since the last 10 years, and it’s really on the last three years where really reduced the pain that I’m experiencing on a daily basis. And I have to tell you this, if I had met Andrea 10 years ago, I would’ve skipped through seven years of me trying to figure it out on my own. And that’s what Andrea does for people is she skips through what I had to experience was just trying a whole bunch of different things before figuring out what works for me and funny enough, as I’m sharing during the interview, what worked for me is what she teaches to people she work with.

So, If you experience chronic pain, this is a must listen. Or if you have anyone in your life that experienced chronic pain who’s been seeking a solution, this is the episode you want to get them to listen. So without any further ado, my team will patch through the interview with Dr. Andrea. Enjoy.

Stephanie: Welcome to the podcast Andrea.

Dr. Andrea: Thank you so much. I’m so excited to be here, Stephanie.

Stephanie: I am the same way and I am because we’re gonna talk about a topic that’s near and dear to my heart, which is pain cuz I’ve been living with chronic pain and as I was mentioning to you, I’ve been talking about pain from a non-AI approach mainly by illustrating my own lived experience but never been able to speak about pain from a factual and science based. I’m really excited to be able to put a resource out there for my client to understand pain and chronic pain differently so they can have a conversation with their caregiver to get them

a non-AI approach to chronic pain. [

Stephanie: Yes.] So I’m excited to have that conversation.

Dr. Andrea: Oh, me too. I love this so much and I love what you’re doing and I think it’s abso totally amazing and phenomenal. So just thank you for doing the work that you do. It’s so important.

Stephanie: Same thing for you. So let’s talk about pain. [Yes.] What is pain? Let’s start with the basic and what build from there.

Dr. Andrea: I know, right? Alright. So the way I always like to start out is, pain, one is crucial to our lives. It sounds so counterintuitive, especially if you’ve been in pain, but ultimately we first need to recognize that we do need pain. If you stepped on a rusty nail, would you wanna know about it? Yeah. Kind of important, right, because you want to be able to clean your wound, not bleed out from your foot without realizing it, right? You put your hand on a hot stove, you want to know about it. So we first wanna recognize where pain is important. And what pain is, is a message from our nervous system to our brains about what’s, what it’s experiencing. There actually are no pain receptors in the body, which is really important. There are temperature detectors, which is why a hot stove will set them off, right? There are movement receptors that can like feel how much stretch is being put on, but ultimately what happens is this nervous system response gets sent up to the brain and the brain interprets it based on what else is going on.

Dr. Andrea: And so the brain can then choose to be like, Hey, ooh, this is important, let’s pay attention, which is pain. It’s like, ding, ding, ding, yikes, threat or ehh, we can ignore this, not important, which is also why you could be running from a bear and step on a rusty nail and not feel the rusty nail because the brain is literally me being like, feeling pain in that moment would not be helpful for your survival. Right.

Dr. Andrea: So your brain is always interpreting the message. This can unfortunately though be misunderstood as pain is in your head, which is what some people also could have heard. So let’s just be real clear that that is not about this. Like can I swear on this podcast? [Oh yeah.] Okay. Good. [Used to that] Or say it appropriately, I always tell, because I speak to mainly women and often we’re gonna make sweeping generalizations, right now. Often the doctor that is telling the women that the pain is in their head is a male. I always like to tell them, you can kick your doctor in the balls and be like, that pain is also in your head. [Yeah.] Cause all pain is the brain’s interpretation of what happened. So like, come on. It’s stupid. So anyway,

Stephanie: [is that over? And you’re,] it’s in your head, but it hurts.

Dr. Andrea: Exactly. So like, yes. Like technically yes it is the braids interpretation, but like it’s become kind of useless to talk about it in that sense because it’s missing out on the entire context and the fact is it freaking hurts, okay. So like it doesn’t change that.

Dr. Andrea: So anyway, so we need pain, but what can often happen is pain becomes a threat detection. And the threat that pain is interpreting can be subjective. [ Okay, tell me more.] Yeah, so first I’m gonna back up and give another, ex I love analogies is, I’m sure we have all walked past that car the whose alarm goes off we’re no freaking, it’s like you just looked at it the wrong way, right? There was always that car in the parking lot. That car has a threat detection that is too sensitive. It is no longer useful because it is responding too heavily, but the car alarm is just as loud based on whether or not we are seeing, a threat there.

Dr. Andrea: So it is responding in the same way to a leaf blowing by it, or you giving the car a side eye as it would to somebody trying to break in. And so it becomes very difficult then to interpret what is an actual threat versus what is your system interpreting as a threat? [Hmm.] Both result, again, in levels of pain that are felt and lead to suffering and that we don’t want to feel, okay. And so just because your body is misinterpreting something as a threat when it not isn’t actually a threat, again, doesn’t make it any less valid or real. It makes it just as important to attend to as if there was an actual threat.

Dr. Andrea: So what happens whether there was an injury or not, after pain has been going on for more than three months, up to six months, right past the six month mark, this is for sure, what we see are changes in the nervous system and of how it’s wired, that it is actually increasing the number of receptors in a certain body part to like know about anything that’s going on. This leads to nervous system sensitization, which leads to pain. Because the brain is now getting just all these messages even if it’s like, wow, your knee just bent a certain way. Your brain’s like, oh my God, it’s, I’m being told about this over and over and over. This must be bad. And it’s interpreting it as something bad because there’s just so much information coming in at it do this increased sensitization that the pain, even if there was a point where there was tissue damage, or an injury, the pain now is due to nervous system sensitization, not due to tissue damage.

Dr. Andrea: And from an injury, when they’ve studied this happens in 25% of people, which is a massive amount of people, like it’s not a small thing that happens or you’re some like rare thing that this is like person that this has happened to. It’s like this is a massive thing that happens in the population. And so again, this can be in response to an actual injury, then that just felt like it never healed. Often the tissues have healed, but what remains is the nervous system sensitization. Or if you’re someone who’s like, I just woke up with a pain, there is no clear response, this can still be the case. Either way if you’ve had pain for more than three to six months. [Mm-hmm.] These nervous system changes have been found to be like universally true. It is just then about the more complicated matter of what’s the nervous system detecting us threat and how do we get it to calm down?

Stephanie: That’s fascinating.

Dr. Andrea: Yeah. That’s my very long mis overview on pain. Yeah.

Stephanie: It is fascinating because that’s not at all what we’re being taught [No] in mass communication, right? [Mm-hmm.] And the first thing that came up to my brain is the shame that we feel for having the pain [Yes] because we shouldn’t be having the pain. And I’ll layer in our particular conundrum because of our size or our body, or yes, our refusal to diet, then we carry the shame and I’m sure that carrying the shame sensitized the nervous system and create more pain.

Dr. Andrea: Oh my gosh. You are freaking brilliant. Yes. You are so spot on because what can happen within the system when we have shame, which is, you’re right, it is such a common emotion, whether it is something that we have internalized based on, maybe there is a parents at a young age or putting a lot of emphasis on what you should be able to do with your body athletically, [mm-hmm] or what you should be able to live up to or whether it is a doctor making comments about your body, or it is just internal pressures you’ve put on yourself Probably based on what society has taught you. Let’s be real, right? What it teaches then that every time we’re feeling pain, it increases the threat response because it’s like pain itself becomes a threat because pain is preventing me from being accepted by society, from having love, from feeling worthy, right? And so what happens is we start pitting against ourselves. Because what I love to really emphasize is that pain ultimately is a part of you. It is a part of your body and so when we hate on it, when we fight it, right, when we are like desperately trying to make it go away, when we feel like pain is ruining our lives, if you just imagine saying all those same things, let’s even take it out of your, like to your best friend, right? Like it doesn’t feel good. But it’s like we are saying that kind of to a part of ourselves.

Dr. Andrea: Now, I also like to add any time I say that, it never means that you have to like love your pain or be like, I’m so happy you’re here, like, okay, we don’t have to get Pollyanna about it. [No] But it’s just about seeing it as a part of our whole selves and that it gets a seat at the table. But it doesn’t mean it runs the show. It doesn’t mean it gets to dictate our lives for us, but it is a part of us.

Stephanie: Yeah. It’s an alignment to what we teach with body image, which is body neutrality. [Mm-hmm.] We don’t have to love our body. [Yes.] It’s a vehicle to use and experience my life, that’s it. [Yeah.] Don’t have to love it, but you can’t like hating it, it’s not gonna serve you. You just gotta be neutral and make friend with it. [Yes. Yes. Exactly.] So it’s the same place with pain.

Dr. Andrea: Perfect analogy. Yes, exactly. 100%.

Stephanie: Because as you’re teaching us that, I’m relating to my own experience of pain, and I’m gonna ask you a question about this. So, for the listener who’ve been around, there’s a number of episodes on the feed about pain and health and pain and my own story around pain and I was sharing recently that the work that has been the most profound in reducing my pain has been accepting my pain. [Nice.] And part of that was in parallel to the this, the concept of healthism, the obsession with being optimum health and thinking I should be able to not be in pain. I should be able to have a body that’s not in pain if I work hard enough and when I accepted that not all humans have a perfectly functioning body that I made peace with that, my pain reduce. And it’s not a promise to say, if you do that pain’s gonna reduce. But that’s what my experience was. Does that make sense in relationship to your teaching?

Dr. Andrea: Yes, absolutely. 100% goes with what I teach because it is about coming into this acceptance. And I think the word acceptance can feel so loaded to people [Yes] because acceptance can often feel like, oh, I’m just giving up and it’s not. Acceptance can be the most empowering thing in especially the way you’re describing it, right, of it’s actually seeing your body for exactly what it is. It’s not rejecting your body. And even what you were describing of like this, yes, this healthism, this obsession with being perfect or having a body operate in a certain way, it’s like, who even defined that in the first place? [Mm-hmm.] Like what does that, what does that even mean? What is the optimum, like what? Like it’s just so, it’s just so ridiculous. And it’s like, what if we were just allowed to be in the body we were given exactly as it was, meeting it exactly as it is right now. And often when we can do that, you’re absolutely right, pain levels will decrease because we’re no longer seeing our own body as a threat. So everything calms down. Your pain’s like I don’t need to yell is loud. You’re like hearing the message.

Dr. Andrea: And so everything often does calm down and it’s like this really like funny side effect that happens by being like, actually I’m just gonna accept that I have pain.This is a formed analogy, but it’s like, it’s part of the body neutrality piece, right? It’s like being like, my body is the size it is, so I’m gonna find clothing that feels amazing [Yes] for it, right? It’s like I am going to give it exactly what it needs right now. And when we do that, we just feel better, right? You just feel better when you’re wearing something that feels amazing on your body exactly as it is. And then you’re just like, ah, right. And so it’s the same thing for pain. It’s like when we can meet our bodies exactly where they are, maybe our body needs more rest. [Mm-hmm.] Maybe our body doesn’t wanna do a certain type of workout that everybody’s been saying we should do to lose weight, right. It’s like, no, my body wants to just do this one movement practice that feels beautiful for me, and we can respect our bodies and meet its needs from that way. Nervous systems are like, they feel so much safer. We just start to achieve nervous system safety, which brings down that sensitization, which will then decrease pain.

Stephanie: And I wanna make sure I’m like, I’m going to the place where some people are going right now [oh yes] in their heads.

Dr. Andrea: Yes. Yes.

Stephanie: So pain is not in my head [mm-hmm] but it modulate itself through my head, my nervous system, my brain. [Mm-hmm.] Does that mean that, we’ll take the classic knee example, because that’s probably like 50 to 70% of the people listening to this. [Mm-hmm.] They have knee problem [mm-hmm] because their joint is getting older. And they’re not in a thin body, so they’re have more weight. Now, is it true that more weight impacts the joint of the knee and causes pain, [so] or was it just in their head?

Dr. Andrea: Yeah, right. So here’s the thing. I’m a physical the, I work for the clinic and saw hundreds and hundreds of people. I saw zero correlation to between body size and pain, and knee pain. [Wow.] I myself am in a thin body that is the body that I genetically was given. [Yeah.] And I had all kinds of joint pain and knee pain [hmm] when I was a teenager. Like, and when I was like 16, 17 years old, like I had all kinds of knee issues. I was like probably 95 pounds when I was a teenager. Like, please. Right.

Stephanie: So, so it’s not true anatomically that the weight causes joint pain?

Dr. Andrea: No, not, here’s what I’ll say from a, like, I will get physical therapy about this for a second. I’m gonna step into physical therapy. The biggest correlation is how well supported is that joint. [Okay. Tell me more.] So, yes, and I do think this is important, right, is what, the biggest, the thing that I wanna like ooh, get, so like, just get on a soapbox about, is this concept of like, if somebody comes in with knee pain, often they are told, oh, you should stop exercising or you should stop squatting, you shouldn’t climb up. Like you should do all whatever. And ultimately the way the joint works, the more muscle we have around the joint, the more supportive the joint is. It actually sounds very counterintuitive, but it actually creates more space in the joint to have more muscle around it. [Hmm.]

Dr. Andrea: So that part is important. But even I, with that, even if you’re somebody who hasn’t been able to build up strength because there has been pain. [Yeah] Right, cuz that’s the reality for money. It doesn’t mean one that you can’t obtain that, but it still doesn’t mean you have to have a lot of pain. And so that’s the thing is I would see people who were really weak and like, yes, we do wanna build up strength just so you can feel more independent in your day. You can do that in a way that doesn’t involve shaming, that doesn’t involve a lot of pain, that doesn’t mean anything about you as a person. It’s just as like, it feels good and loving to just give my joint more support. And it’s possible to do that again without likethe hyposensitization piece. [ Tell me more about this.] Yeah. I also wanna make, one more thing before I go into that is often those who carry more weight are some of the frigging strongest people I know because you’re literally carrying more weight.

Stephanie: I have the calf of a machine, like [yes] I cannot, like I’m back into the gym lifting weight, and I just keep like I’m at like 150 pounds on my caff and I cannot get [yeah] high enough just because it’s supporting 200 plus pounds of weight. These sh, these muscles are strong as hell.

Dr. Andrea: Exactly. Like I, I feel like that was like a very, that was a consistent thing I would see is I would get these very thin bodied people who were very weak and they have a lot of knee pain, right. Because they’re, they have no, have no muscle around it. And again, that’s not shaming them for, [no] for, for having that. It’s just, it is the reality. And so we wanna give them more strength.

Dr. Andrea: Most people who I worked with who had a larger body, they were so strong, it wasn’t about the muscle, you know, sometimes it was more just gi pick more love to their muscles and actually more of like almost the self-care piece of like, maybe they were tight and were working so hard, so it’s just like giving them love and massage [Stretching, yes] and stretching. Yes, exactly. And then teaching them more about this piece of bringing down the sensitization because if every step, if you have been told that your weight is causing [yep] pain, then imagine what you are thinking either consciously or at a subconscious level that, ah, I’m going up the stairs. How much weight am I putting through my joint right now? [Mm-hmm.] Weight is bad to put through my joint. If weight was bad to put through your joint, why are we promoting weightlifting. Like it doesn’t make, [no] like, it’s not our joints. There’s something called wolf swa. The more force you put through something, the stronger it gets. Like we want to weight through joints. I’m like a massive advocate of strength training for that purpose.

Dr. Andrea: And so if every step you take, every time you have pain, every time you’re going up and down stairs, every time you’re squatting, you’re thinking, oh, I’m creating damage. Yeah. Oh my gosh, I’m creating damage. Your body is like, I’m creating dam. Right. It just takes on that message you’re sending and it’s, and what your body will do, what your brain will do is like, we are worried about creating damage, therefore we need to know more about what is going on in this joint. And so how does a brain learn more? It puts in more receptors and so it’s literally, a person with pain will have a significantly more receptors within a joint, which means your body is feeling every movement you do at a much greater level.

Dr. Andrea: So the best way to describe this sensitization is if you’ve ever had the flu, right? You know how you like just like laying under the sheets, you feel it on your body that’s just like, oh my God, it’s sore. If you like bump up against a doorway, it’s like, oh my God, like it doesn’t hurts. That is literally, that’s sensit and that’s like a chemical sensitization that happens cuz they detect chemicals too. So it’s like things just hurt more, but there’s not more damage being caused. You bumping against the doorway when you have the flu, is it more likely to lead it a bruise right. It’s just your body was more sensitive to it, you felt it more, and then once that sensitization decreases, flu goes away, it disappears.

Dr. Andrea: So in the knee joint, it’s literally just feeling more and then your brain is like, it’s like a self-perpetuating cycle. So your brain’s getting more information and it’s like, oh my gosh, wow, this joint’s moving and we’ve learned that moving is bad. Oh my gosh, we must be concerned about this. Let me throw in more receptors. And so it just creates this vicious cycle when instead if we can be like, it is safe to put weight through my joints because that actually is what increases my bone density. That is what brings nourishment to my joints because that is true when we put, when we use our joints, that brings in the synovial fluid that lubricates them, that, that tells our body, we are using this, so we must take, like, that helps it take care, to take care of it, to send in the healing when we can be like, yeah, I might be sore, but I’m safe. It is safe for me to go upstairs. I’m not creating more damage. Then our brain can be like, okay, this is safe. And slowly the receptor starts to replace themselves and start to fade out.

Stephanie: Are you saying the word taught work?

Dr. Andrea: Yes. It can be part of,

Stephanie: because people are familiar because that’s part of our process.

Dr. Andrea: Yes. You have to believe the thought work though, just like right,so yes,

Stephanie: But the same process as we use for body image. Right? You have to start slowly, like, it’s possible for me to accept my body, blah, blah, blah. Right.

Dr. Andrea: Exactly. And I work with a combination of like thought work isn’t partially thought work, but then you [cognitive] use thought work to, yes, go on a body level. And so then I also take people through a process of like also getting to know pain, partnering with pain. Like, hey, what are you here for? [Yes.] What’s going on? So like the knee can be a great example of like, is there fear of moving forward in life? Right. Or your back, where do I not feel supported? Right. Like things like that, I find, sometimes it can be helpful to have a global generalization of a body part, but sometimes the message can be so unique so I never like to assume anything. [Yeah.] But it’s like we are, we’re always working from both levels. We wanna make sure we’re taking out the layers of beliefs that were put on us by the medical community. [Yeah.] But then we have to remember that the paint also was present. So it’s almost like these two, I know it’s a podcast and I use my hands so much. Okay, so it’s like almost like two layers, right? There’s the, like here we had paint, there was an moment of when pain started and then there was all these layers and beliefs that got built on top of it. I find those layers and beliefs are often, they work really well with thought work. But then it’s like, why did the pain come on in the first place? So at first we have to clear the thoughts and beliefs that came on of like, that we’re holding onto that movement is bad, or just walking around and being in your body is a problem. Right.

Stephanie: That’s hyper desensitizing the pain. [Yes.] You have to remove that part.

Dr. Andrea: Yes, because that’s keeping us in the cycle. And then it’s like, okay, now we can be with our pain. [Okay.] Hey, what’s going on? What? Why did you come on in the first place? And really then deep deepening into the body and getting to know,is there a message here for us? What does our body need to feel loved and supported and cared for? What would feel respectful to our body, and working in from a much more somatic level and an embodied level.

Stephanie: What’s fascinating is I’m hearing you explain your methodology and how you help people release pain. It’s what I did in a very disorganized way. [Yeah.] Would I have known like you were existing, I would’ve fast tracked my result to pain because I did it, but like poking over here and poking over there. So you’re like taking that process, organizing it in step one to five [mm-hmm] in a very systematic way to fast track people, [yes] reducing their pain and hearing the message yes] in a awesome way, not just like from [yeah] quote unquote weight loss, but like from a, what is the whole big picture behind this?

Dr. Andrea: Exactly, yes. Cause I don’t talk about weight loss at all. [Yeah, exactly.] Because it’s not needed.

Stephanie: That’s why you’re here. Because you wouldn’t be here if you were.

Dr. Andrea: Yeah, exactly. Like literally, I’ve never talked about that. Right? Like it’s not required at all.

Stephanie: So why do you think that is, when we go to the doctor, we get told it’s our wait. Like you are a specialist. You have a doctorate in that, like you’re the ultimate up-to-date level of information, but that message is not what the thousands and thousands of doctor gives to patient every day.

Dr. Andrea: Yeah. So what I first wanna start with is what I am saying about pain in terms of the sensitization and all that is evidence based and backed by the neuroscience. [Yes] Like the is, it’s not debatable. Like, it’s not like a, oh, this is some woo French thing. [Mm-hmm] It’s like, no, no, no,go read the research papers, this is what it says. The other thing the research papers say is all about bringing it back to your body and the mindfulness piece and the being with your body and it, the research 100% shows how harmful it is to like, speak about certain ways in pain to be like, oh, being in this body is creating damage and oh, like all of that type of language is so [stigmatization.]

Dr. Andrea: Yes, the research knows all of this [mm-hmm] yet it is not carried over at all in practice. Now, from talking to, you know, I’ve had some doctors on my podcast, from what I hear from them, they don’t learn any of that in medical school.

Stephanie: Oh, so it’s just generalized fat phobic [yep] socialization of the population that’s carried over in their practice.

Dr. Andrea: Yes. And in, in like defense to be like, not all doctors are terrible people at all, so much because of insurance and things like that. So many doctors are limited to this like seven minute visit, where they have to get through way more than they can ever do. They are stressed. They are burned out, and at the end of the day, I think it’s very easy to say you should lose weight. [Okay.] It’s so easy because it’s such like a, an accepted thing to say [okay]. To sit with someone and go into the deeper things takes a long time. I wanna be like, your doctor cannot do this type of work with you. And what I’m actually seeing now, it’s funny because it’s like, oh my God, this needs to get into the medical field, but I’m actually seeing it. It is getting into the medical field slowly, and it’s actually really problematic because what’s happening is doctors are like, I mean, it’s better. It’s better. It’s a step up. But when it happens,

Stephanie: we get in the right direction

Dr. Andrea: They’re moving. It’s just slow. As long as insurance is dictating these seven minutes, we’re kind of fucked. Like it’s never gonna look good. Yeah. But what’s happening is doctors are like, you need to have less stress. That’s right, so that they’ve moved from weight loss to, okay, well you need to just have less stress in your life. Well, you should just do this, but what the, like, come on, like it’s not helpful. Oh, you should be more mindful here. You should meditate more. And they’re just doing the same thing where they’re just throwing a, like this blanket statement without ever sitting with a person and letting the person be heard and loved on, and just have a chance to express what is being held in their body and in their system because it takes time and spaciousness and a relationship and being heard and seen to move through a lot of this work.

Stephanie: So, we understand pain better, we understand sensitization, I’m someone with pain, [mm-hmm] I go to the doctor, I’m being told it’s weight. I told the doctor I don’t want to talk about weight. Then what do I do? [Yeah] do I go to someone like you or is there anything else in the medical system that can help me?

Dr. Andrea: So chances are, if you have tried a bunch of things, if you have been, like either told, hey, there’s really nothing more we can do, you just need to lose weight, or maybe they’ve taken x-rays and they’re like, either it looks fine, or we could get into a whole nother conversation about, just because it says something in an image does not mean that there has to be pain present because that’s again, proven by research that what we see in an image does not correlate. [That’s fascinating] The pain levels at all, like it is so fascinating, like it is insane and I’ve had so many good stories of this. So, so just know that because I’m like a whole other conversation. Stay focused, Andrea.

Dr. Andrea: Okay. So what can you do? I think, it is a knowing that the medical system can be there to rule out something that does need to be medically treated. And that’s tricky because like I’m talking from a place of like, I’m not gonna say some things, and I really don’t mean to like throw anyone’s fear detectors up, but it’s like at the end of the day, there is some back pain that comes in and it’s an early sign of, a kidney thing or right, there’s bone cancer. Like, there, there are things we can’t live in fantasy world [no] right. There are some times where pain can be an indicator of a deeper medical problem that does need to be attended to by the conventional field. But here’s the thing, chances are if you’ve had pain for more than six months and years likely, like they would’ve seen that. Like know that the medical field tends to do a very good job of catching an acute emergency issue like that. And so if you’ve been to a bunch of doctors and they haven’t had it, know that they’ve done their job. [Okay] You’ve gotten what you need and now it is like, okay, I’m never gonna get what I need from them because not only have they not been trained to it, even the ones that might be aware and are aware, they can’t do it in a 15 minute visit.

Stephanie: They’re not structured to give that kind of care.

Dr. Andrea: Yeah. When I was working in the clinic, I was very aware of what it took. It as the reason I came out of the clinic because even working in a clinic that I was able to have 45 minute visits with people. [Okay.] I felt like I could not do what I knew would help people because as long as it is covered by insurance, there are literally restrictions on what we’re allowed to do. Okay? So I moved outta the clinic because I was like, I cannot do the things that I know will help. And this is the case for a lot of doctors who might have the knowledge. They can’t do it in practice. So it is yes, finding people like myself who are going to walk you through it and be with you through the process, whether it’s group or one-on-one. I do both depending on the needs of the person. I have a podcast, the Unweaving Chronic Pain Podcast, which of course I’m delighted to have you on as well, that, you know, I start to talk about it. And so just like getting yourself in your brain to hear a different side of things is amazing. There are so many,books and apps and things like that, that do help with this as well. Curable is one that I’ve heard. I,I’ve never like gone through what I’ve heard. There’s some limitations of having an app, but it’s like the overall messages, at least giving your brain different messages

Stephanie: And it depends where you’re on the scale of affordability. The apps will help you to the extent which you can, right?

Dr. Andrea: Exactly, yes. And especially if you’re like, man, I really can see where I need to reprogram my beliefs about pain. Alan Gordon has an amazing book called The Way Out, I Believe, and same with, Howard Schumer. They both, I think Shuber stuff, I think he’s got some YouTube videos and things like they, he really does a great job of if you’re like, I just need to hear more about, wait a minute, wait an x-ray, does it mean, if you’re, like, some of these things are like, holy crap, I’ve never heard this before. Like, I recommend actually following some of those guys cuz they speak really, well about the like, medicalization of these things and how it just doesn’t add up.

Dr. Andrea: Again, I will say they’re men and they do have a certain perspective sometimes that I find, there’s no reason women tend to come to me. [Yeah.] But no, I think like their information is like spot on. Like, it’s so good. It’s so good.

Stephanie: And I wanna be sure that we include the conversation around the fibromyalgia thing, like, I don’t wanna call it a disease, Like it’s an association of symptoms. Yeah. But when we talk about chronic pain, we’re not only talking about knee pain, we’re talking about pain that people can explain like fibromyalgia.

Dr. Andrea: Yes. Fibromyalgia 100% falls into this category. It is literally a sensitization of your entire nervous system and I’ve, rather than it happening at a joint level, often when we’re talking about something fibromyalgia, there is something that the body is detecting as a threat that’s much more external, like global in your life. [Yeah.] Like, let’s use you as an example, right?[ Yeah] You are someone who is operating against status quo. You’re coming here and being like, fuck diet culture. That is anti societal, like norms. Your body, sometimes for some people, their body can actually develop fibromyalgia like thing because it’s like this is unsafe for you to be speaking out against. Do you know what happens to women when they use their voice? And so it’s your body actually trying to protect you because guess what? What’s, guess what a great way to stop you from using your voices, being in pain.

Stephanie: Yeah, but not being able court and do nothing because you’re,

Dr. Andrea: Yeah, your body’s not stupid. So if you’re doing something where it’s like, man, every time it feels like I’m making these big strides, or I’m making myself more visible or doing something I love, it’s almost like the more aligned to life you get, if you have more pain, chances are, is because your body is seeing that as a threat. And we can rewire that. That can be shifted. Again, that’s not gonna be the case for everyone, but it’s definitely, if you’re like, man, nothing makes sense or like, the better I feel internally, the worse my body feels, like that’s why.

Stephanie: Yeah. Anne, it’s often, like I’m thinking of a student recently who was a health coach with fibromyalgia, and part of her healing process was to stop being a health coach because it, it was very unsafe for her to be a health coach [mm-hmm] while being sick. And since she’s [fascinating], since she changed her career and went back to an office corporate job, [mm-hmm] the pain, 70% less.

Dr. Andrea: Fascinating. It’s so fascinating. Right? A body is just,it’s amazing. Yeah. And I also wanna even say that logically, just because you’re like, well, I don’t see that as a threat. I feel like I’m sitting as a woman to speak. Oh, no, you’re, you’re nervous. Generational trauma, that’s the thing that we work with, [Yeah] it doesn’t, and societally, just you watch the news for five seconds, like your body’s gonna be picking up on all kinds of threats. So like, often it can be, it’s held at a subconscious level. Yeah.

Stephanie: That’s amazing. So you’ve named your podcast as one of the resource. [Mm-hmm] What’s the name event again?

Dr. Andrea: Unweaving Chronic Pain

Stephanie: Okay. So we can go there getting to know you, and then you work with people to do this work [Mm-hmm] 1 0 1 or in a group setting. [Yep. Absolutely I do.] That’s amazing. And Andrea’s here because she’s fully aligned with our value system. Because I often tell people, you have to investigate the people you work with. You don’t need to investigate. She’s proofed. [Thank you.] She’s not gonna like, trigger you into having to lose weight. So it’s somebody that aligns with my work. A hundred percent.

Dr. Andrea: Mm-hmm. Yes. And then,the link that I’m including [yep] to will be a replay of a three day masterclass that I worked through, which is the first day is all about breaking the cycle of pain. So really looking at how we’re responding to pain within our bodies to understand why our body like to help break down that threat response. Yeah.

Dr. Andrea: And then day two is all about reclaiming your body back from pain, so getting to know how to go deeper, like what we were talking about, going deep into the body to hear what it has for you. And then day three is how to integrate it, this into your life and reclaiming your life back from pain and starting to expand it back out again. So you can have access to those videos that will walk you through the process, in day two is this really deep, beautiful somatic process and embodiment process that, oh, it’s just so magical.

Stephanie: So that’s gonna be in the show. [That will be] You guys can go and grab that, and again, it starts your journey to feel more safe to then take the next step and do your own personal work on this. [Mm-hmm. Yes. Yes.]

Stephanie: Thank you for being here. I have been looking for somebody to talk about pain without including fat phobic message for years. [Mm-hmm] And the podcast has been running close to six years and you’re the first one [oh] my years. [ It’s horrifying. I’m sorry.] Yeah, about that, that couldn’t find anybody that would tackle this message without blaming the weight on the body.

Dr. Andrea: I have literally, like, been working with pain since 2011 and I have, don’t think I have ever mentioned anybody’s weight. Because it’s so irrelevant.

Stephanie: Yeah, but it’s so rare, unfortunately.

Dr. Andrea: I just think I’m like in my own little bubble sometimes.

Stephanie: You are, but you’re needed. Okay. Thank you very much for with us.

Dr. Andrea: Thank you. Thank you for having me.

Dr. Andrea:

read more
358-Ozempic: The Conversation We Need to Have First with Dr. Natalie Gentile

358-Ozempic: The Conversation We Need to Have First with Dr. Natalie Gentile

Ozempic: the conversation

 ITUNES PODCAST

GOOGLE PODCAST

SPOTIFY

Ozempic: the conversation we need to have first with Dr. Natalie Gentile will be the most eye opening to all women who have heard, considered or taking ozempic in an effort to lose weight.

That it is for your own decision process or perhaps how to have an educated conversation with your bestie about Ozempic and really any medicalized weight loss treatment this is the conversation that will help you form your own opinion.

Enjoy and share!

Stephanie

Ozempic: the conversation we need to have first

Dr. Natalie Gentile (she/her) is a board-certified Family Medicine and Lifestyle Medicine physician who owns a direct primary care practice in Pittsburgh, PA. She strives to meet patients where they are and, with a personal history of disordered eating, is passionate about running a weight-neutral practice that is a safe space for any and all.

You can find more on Dr. Gentile at www.rebelsinwellness.com and contact her directly on instagram at Natalie Gentile MD.

What you’ll learn listening to this episode:

  • What is Ozempic and what should it be used for?
  • The option to Ozempic and medicalized weight loss treatment
  • Point to consider in decision process to intentional weight loss 
  • Direct primary care as an option to weight neutral health counselling

Mentioned in the show: 

Direct Primary Care Listing

Health Habits Checklist

Rebellious Eating Solution Webinar

Quiz: Is it you or your diet?

Undiet Your Life Program

Non-Diet Coaching Certification

Connect with our guest

Website – Dr. Natalie Gentile

Instagram – Dr. Natalie Gentile

Facebook – Dr. Natalie Gentile

Transcript

Ozempic: The Conversation We Need to Have First with Dr. Natalie Gentile

Stephanie: This is episode 358 of The Beyond the Food Show, and today we’re gonna talk about the drug called Ozempic, and this is the conversation you want to listen to first, are making your own decision or having your own conversation about Ozempic. You ready? Stay tuned.

Welcome back, my dear sister, and today is the day we’re having a conversation about Ozempic. This podcast was born from all of you reaching out to me and asking me, or have, wanting from me my personal opinion about Ozempic and I have refused to give an opinion because of two things. Number one, I am no longer in clinical practice. I no longer see patients one-to-one. I’m now into working with clients under a coaching structure, so I cannot formulate ethically an opinion on ozempic. However, what I did is I found a prescribing physician, so someone who sees patient day to day and has prescribing right, has actually work with real people and a medication called Ozempic, and I asked her a bunch of question.

So we have a guest today on the podcast. Her name is Dr. Natalie Gen. She’s a board certified family medicine and lifestyle medicine physician who owns a primary care practice in Pittsburgh in the Us. She, as you will hear in the interview, practice medicine very differently. She has a weight neutral practice and interact with her patient under a different formulation, which is what we call primary care practice. I discovered that lifestyle medicine while doing the interview with her. She is an amazing person, and we kept the conversation neutrally because I want this to be a resource for years to come on Ozempic, that it is for you to formulate your own opinion, or that is for you to contribute to a friend, to a sister, to someone who’s considering ozempic, that you can have an educated decision.

The second reason why I don’t formulate my own opinion is I’m a coach and I want to empower the people that I work with to make their own decision because I trust that you can make your own decision. I trust you. I am handing out my belief in you. So this conversation’s gonna be very neutral. We’re gonna explore every side of Ozempic and other medicalized treatment for weight loss in order for you to make your own decision. And if you are in Pittsburgh, I would highly recommend you reach out to work with Dr. Natalie, and she also has this amazing website called Rebel Wellness, which is a weight neutral facilitator of healthcare that you should look up to. And my last thing, before I roll you the interview in the show note, we’ve put the link to the directory, to find a practitioner or physician or your medical team in the US that are under that same structure of primary care practice. If you are in other country, I cannot advise you, if you’re on Canada, that doesn’t apply to us. And in Europe, I’m not sure about the healthcare system there.

I titled this podcast Ozempic, the Conversation we need to have first. Let’s roll in the interview and hope this serves you well.

Dr. Natalie: Welcome to the show, Natalie.

Dr. Natalie: Thank you so much for having me, Stephanie.

Stephanie: I’m so grateful for you to be on the show today because we’re gonna talk about a hot topic around my podcast listener, my client, which is the medication call ozempic. So I’m gonna go right into it because I have so many questions and I want to start by first laying out the base, what it is, what it should be used for, what it should not be used for, and then we can get into more conversation around it. Is that good for you? Absolutely.

Stephanie: So what is Ozempic?

Dr. Natalie: Ozempic is a medication that is an injectable, so it’s something that you are injecting into a part of your body, a solution that’s in a pen. And it is indicated for people with diabetes as a way for them to help control their diabetes. It’s generic name is Semaglutide and it’s of a drug class that’s been used for a long time for treatment of diabetes.

Stephanie: Oh, long time.

Dr. Natalie: Yes. So the ozempic itself with the injectable form is newer, but using this type of drug class for diabetes is not a new thing.

Stephanie: Is it similar to what many people know as metformin? Is it the same class of medication?

Dr. Natalie: It’s different than Metformin and it works at a different, physiologic way. But metformin tends to be our first line for diabetes management. And then these medications like ozempic tend to be something that we add on or use for different indications depending on the patient.

Stephanie: Perfect. And so the reason why I am bringing this up on the podcast is because many people that are not diabetic have encountered ozempic, but not as a diabetic medicine, but instead as a weight loss tool or medication. Is that a use of ozempic as well for weight loss?

Dr. Natalie: So as of right now, specifically, Ozempic is diabetes. It has a effect of weight loss as well. We govie is a brand name of the same medicine as Ozempic, the same generic medication, different brand name. That is indicated for weight loss. But same drug, just different approvals right now between those two brand drugs.

Stephanie: But the same [effects], the, the same effects.

Dr. Natalie: It’s same effects, different dosing for each of them. So the amounts that you’re getting for Wego V versus Ozempic start at different levels, but the literally the same drug, just branded with different names and currently, one is diabetes and one of course also will treat diabetes, but has been branded as a weight loss medication.

Stephanie: Okay. I’m gonna come back to the conversation around marketing and pharmaceutical [Yes.] because I think that’s a one thing. But in most layman terms, how is a diabetic medication, I’m assuming was created for diabetes management create a weight loss result, [mm-hmm] in the most simple term.

Dr. Natalie: Yes. So, to break it down, when we eat, there are so many different hormones released in our body that go all over the body to have different effects, including going to your brain, so tell us about satiety or fullness. Going to your pancreas to affect insulin secretion. Going to your gut, your GI tract, to slow things down and affect the way that you process the food that you’re digesting. Those are just a few of the examples. It’s a very multifactorial, very intricate process when we eat and all those hormones that are excreted.

Dr. Natalie: When we take these medications like ozempic for diabetes, it’s affecting your pancreas and insulin secretion. So it can be helpful for the way your body responds to blood sugar. What’s other effects of this medication include slowing the way that food moves through your GI tract and affecting what your brain is signaling as full. So in a sense, you are feeling full off of very little food, and food really isn’t moving as quickly through your digestive system as it normally would without this medication.

Stephanie: Okay, so therefore this medication sends signal to your brain to say you’re full when you’re not really full. And the food stays longer in the digestive system, again, increasing feeling of fullness. Is that it?

Dr. Natalie: Correct. Yes. And it’s interesting because this has happened throughout ages with other medications. I think a great example is the medication wellbutrin. It’s an antidepressant, but then we also found that it can be really helpful with motivation and it can be a second line for A D H D and you know, la, la, la, la, la, there’s all these other things that it can do, and that’s science, right? We find different effects of medications that maybe weren’t what we were initially looking for, and that’s what appears to have happened with this medication ozempic, because now it’s showing to be on par in some people with bariatric surgery, these medications with their weight loss effect.

Stephanie: Okay, so let’s go back, while you take the medication, you mimic the signal to the brain that you’re full, the digestion moves slower, but if you stop taking the medication because you don’t have type two diabetes, therefore it’s not a long-term lifelong treatment, you’re taking it for weight loss. When you stop taking it, then you will go back to normal satiety signaling. [Correct.] I want everybody to be clear on that. This is a, the effect is only present while you take the medication.

Dr. Natalie: Right? So think back to what I think a lot of us are more comfortable with, knowing about and hearing about, bariatric surgery. It’s been around for a long time, okay, also known as weight loss surgery. And there’s different ways to do weight loss surgery, but in the end, how can we make it so that less food makes it feel fuller? [Mm-hmm.] Right? [Mm-hmm.] It is a lot of what that is mechanically. And this is doing that in a sense, but [yes] with bariatric surgery, you eat more than what that, you know, mechanical pouch can hold. You’re gonna get stretching of it, you’re gonna be able to eat more again and more, or you might get sick from it. With these medications, we take away the effect that we’re giving with the medication, we’re going to go back to what our body was doing before. It may not be to the full extent of weight regain, for example, as you had loss, but it can be close. And a lot of times with these meds, we do counsel patients, you might be on this forever. It’s possible that you will be on this forever if this is something you wanna sustain as an achievable, you know, outcome.

Stephanie: Got it. So what you’re saying is, let’s say the patient wants to have a zenix for weight loss and they wanna be sure to maintain the weight loss, they would have to take a Zix, quote unquote, for the rest of their life. In the same way we think of diet. if you lose weight with a diet, you’re gonna have to be on the diet for the rest of your life. [Yes.] Same pH is there side effect. Now I’m sure there is side effect, but in the case of diabetes, the side effect are less than the long term benefit for diabetes patients. But what about weight loss people?

Dr. Natalie: That’s a great point, right? Because yeah, for that category of diabetics who, who very well should have access to this med as an option, [yeah] the benefits of controlled diabetes are high. When we’re just talking about our patients with weight loss, it desire, it’s possible that the risks outweigh the benefits for some people. And again, this is such a personal choice, right? In our country, we have this obsession with, if only we could get everyone thin, then all would be well, right? So like, here’s yet another tool or way that diet culture can help you get there. This med is not without risk. This is not like, I’m gonna restrict calories for a few weeks. This is, I’m gonna take a medication that I inject long-term for weight loss. So it’s something that needs to be taken very seriously. I’d say the most common side effects that I see in clinical practice and that are reported in the clinical trials are nausea, very decreased appetite, almost to the point of discussed around eating at times, like lack of desire and you have to force yourself to eat, in some people. Constipation, you see thatslowing of the GI tract. It’s, it can be uncomfortable. And those are the main ones that are most commonly talked about are very much gi, gastrointestinal issues. There has been discussion about pancreatitis. It’s questionable if that’s really something that we can put a stamp on yet. Again, this, these are new uses. We’re gonna have to have years of data before we can see that. And then there also is discussion about people with histories of thyroid cancer not taking this medication or strong family histories of thyroid cancer not using meds like Ozempic. And that also is, that’s on the box kind of warnings, but again, it’s gonna take time for us to collect that kind of data.

Stephanie: So I want people to understand, because in my brain it’s evident, but I want people that are not in the science world to understand this drug was tested for diabetic patient with type two diabetes, I wanna be clear on that, type two diabetes. It was not tested for weight loss in a patient that doesn’t present diabetes. Is that what I’m hearing?

Dr. Natalie: Yeah, that’s, we don’t have great evidence for it just being a weight loss med. Wego V is indicated for that and has trials out there and papers that are out there on that, but,there’s so much to, T B D, right, [Yes] like to be determined. Because just like with every weight loss thing we’ve got in this world, things work in the short term. You know? [They work until they don’t work.] Exactly. They work until they don’t work. Look back at Fen F. Look at all of the diet meds that have been out there over time that in the end we’re looking back like, oh, crap, you know, maybe,

Stephanie: did we do that

Dr. Natalie: Right. And I’m not saying that that’s gonna be the case with Ozempic. We go the, even the newest one, Manjaro, like, I’m not saying that’s gonna be the case here. These truly, if you are practicing medicine and helping people with their desire to lose weight, this is the best option we have right now, the most [at this point], correct. At this point, this is the most effective medication option that we have.

Stephanie: Because when we think about Fen, that is, I’m assuming, is no longer prescribable, correct? That’s been taken off the market because of the side effect?

Dr. Natalie: Yes. Because of the cardiovascular effects, yes.

Stephanie: And that’s, when you say it’s the most valuable offer for weight loss, [yes] it’s because there’s not a lot of choice out there for medication because as soon as we find one, we find side effect and we pull it out. People have to be clear about that.

Dr. Natalie: Yes. And there are other medications that are out there, oral type medications for weight loss that are effective. But again, we’re not talking substantial weight loss. Right. We’re not talking to the degree of these injectable meds. And there are some people who desire that amount of weight loss. And so if we’re going to help our patients with shared decision making, we’ve gotta show them the different options that are out there.

Stephanie: So one of the question that some of my clients and listener have asked is, knowing that this medication was created for type two diabetes, very little research on weight loss, how can physician doctor ethically prescribe this drug for people not knowing of the result and not knowing about the weight loss side effect of it.

Dr. Natalie: Mm-hmm. The fact is, it’s F D A approved right now through the brand name Wego V to be a weight loss drug. So first of all,We know it’s working. If not, you know, let’s define what short term is versus long term. Right. We know it’s working from the data and the clinical trials that we have now, and it’s approved to be that. So it’s not even off label with something like W Wbi. With Ozempic, technically until it’s approved also for weight loss, we are prescribing it technically off-label, you could argue. Even though it’s the same exact medication as webi, like let’s remind ourselves again, it’s the same med at a lower dose than Webi, and I will say it’s working. I see it in patients all the time. The weight loss is very clear. The side effects are there though. And what are we gonna do in the long term with this? Are we gonna stay on it forever? And that’s a tough conversation to have with patients because honestly, there’s very, very few meds I can think of that I would be comfortable with prescribing forever.

Stephanie: For life, lifetime.

Dr. Natalie: Exactly. I mean, think about the population that is starting these meds. It is people probably thirties to fifties, [Yes] maybe, who have theoretically another 30 plus years to live. And so we’re committing someone to long-term medication use, with, which in itself is not without risk. It’s not just the side effects. There’s the cost. There’s the fact of being on a med and medication burden and potential for interaction with other medications and on and on and on.

Stephanie: Just so that you can maintain the amount of loss of weight you’ve lost during the first few weeks and months of taking the medication, [correct] then the weight loss all, and then you have to maintain the medication if you wanna maintain the weight loss. [Correct.] Is that something that the physician have to outline clearly to the patients?

Dr. Natalie: I believe. So it’s our job to do no harm. We’ve gotta have that very clear decision and discussion with a patient, you know? I think that just to say, we’ll have you tried Ozempic, you should try it, is not enough. There’s gotta be a big conversation and arguably multiple conversations, about all of the different options. And another thing that we aren’t touching on here is the counseling around everything other than medications when it comes to weight.

Dr. Natalie: And it’s interesting when I talk to my patients who have gone through counseling prior to weight loss surgery, bariatric surgery, and whether they went through it or not, but they tell me about some of the counseling, and there’s mandatory counseling you have to go through. And they’ve, the resounding information I’ve heard from them is like, it didn’t really tackle my underlying issues. So then I got the surgery and then I was still having those issues, you know, my disordered eating, my body image disorder, et cetera. It’s the same thing with these meds. I mean, we’re about to enter a medication that might drastically reduce your weight. It is going to significantly impact your relationship with food because now we’re gonna have to force you to eat. Like you have to force people to eat and get the amount of nutrition that they need to not have, you know, nutrient deficiencies in this case. So, hey, we’re gonna mess with your relationship with food a little bit more. So I think that there needs to be discussions around that, not just around medication side effects.

Stephanie: Is there, I mean, that’s my world. What you just outlined is my world, right? Dealing with the real problem. So I’m in it [mm-hmm] a hundred percent of the time I took myself out of clinical practice to be just in that world. [Mm-hmm.] But is that the world you live in, where people are counseled at that level?

Dr. Natalie: I, I don’t know what it’s like in every other clinic. I’m gonna be honest with you. [Yeah] I, if I had to venture a guess, when you only have seven to 15 minutes with a patient in primary care and have a ton of other things to cover, I would guess it’s challenging. One so time. Two, even if you were to see a specialist in these specialty settings, like for example, there are clinics that are straight up weight loss clinics within some of these big health systems. I don’t know what the counseling is like. I’m, I’m assuming it’s great. I’m hoping it’s great, right? [Mm-hmm.]But time is always an issue and so is education around these medications. So if you’re gonna be prescribing them, you’ve gotta know how to have that conversation and not every primary care doc might have gone through the, you know, reading, training, understanding of it to comfortably have it.

Stephanie: How do you address it in your clinic?

Dr. Natalie: So I have an interesting setup. [please] I have a direct primary care practice. So in my practice, my patients pay a monthly membership and have full access to me. So they have hour long visits if they need it. We have multiple touchpoints. And it’s not like concierge medicine, so it’s not exorbitantly expensive. It’s a, I see every walk of life. I see every body, everybody who comes in is welcome here. Different socioeconomic statuses, different backgrounds in general, different neighborhoods, communities. Therefore every conversation has to be tailored to that person. And so I take the time to have those conversations and a lot of time we touch on disordered eating behaviors that they never had a name for before. They never really were given the opportunity to feel comfortable talking about some of their relationships with their body image. And it’s interesting when you start to have these conversations, it’s like, man, we gotta tackle those first. You know, we’ve gotta tackle those things. However, I always try to be cognizant of an empathetic cord. If you have looked in the mirror for 20 years and hated what you saw, that is huge. [Yes.] That is deep and we cannot discount that and we cannot belittle that down to like, then let’s get rid of that problem now by talking about all of your history and your relationship, you know, relationships with food and six months of therapy. Like some people really want something that’s gonna help them now. So it’s a, it really is such a tailored individual discussion.

Stephanie: So your formulation of your practice, I’m Canadian, so we have social healthcare, we have people from Europe, we have people from the state. It doesn’t seem to be as problematic for my client unless they’re in the state, then state medication and medical care is a big puddle. So your formulation of your practice, is that something that can be accessed in any city around the us, you just have to look for it?

Dr. Natalie: Pretty much. So we, direct primary care movement, which operates outside of the insurance system. So like I don’t bill insurance, therefore I have control over what I’m doing with my patients. It is happening across the country, across the United States. So you just, if you just look up direct primary care in my city, you can likely find a practice

Stephanie: Direct primary care. I’m gonna put that in the show notes.

Dr. Natalie: Yeah. It’s harder in rural settings, just because rural health access is challenging. But honestly direct primary care thrives in rural settings too. So I wouldn’t, you know, even discount those in rural areas to, to look it up.

Stephanie: Because that’s widely different from when I have to coach client that go into doctor’s visit, like this is not the kind of visit they’re getting with their physician or their medical team. They’re getting five, 10 minutes of consultation and it’s all about losing the weight. So I sent you a reel of one of our client. I sent you, like people walk into their doctor’s office and the first thing on the list is how we’re gonna help you lose weight.

Dr. Natalie: Correct. Think about a general primary care clinic and how huge it is and all of the bells and whistles and how everyone’s behind. It’s like you’re always late, you’re always running behind. It’s a nightmare. It’s challenging to work in that and you get hustled in, you get your vital signs taken immediately, and one of those things is always the weight. And in my practice, like I’m the one greeting them when they walk in the door and they aren’t waiting and we walk them back to my consultation room and sit on a couch and talk. I don’t weigh my patients most of the time. If I’m planning to, I ask them first. And so it’s a very different vibe where all of a sudden the front and center is not your weight, it’s all of the other things.

Stephanie: So what I’m hearing is that it’s possible to practice medicine in the United States without centering weight. [Correct.] Huh. Interesting. Because my clients are being told they don’t have a choice. They, the doctor have to center the weight as they’re protocol or process to help them, which is not true.

Dr. Natalie: So when you operate outside of the insurance-based model, [yes,] you are not having to bill insurance. If you have to bill insurance, you are going to be talking about weight a lot of the time and trying to treat it with some kind of medication if possible, because it’s hard to get appropriately paid for lifestyle medicine counseling. It’s hard to, bill without putting diagnoses down. And, you and I talked about this word, obesity and [yes, that is a diagnosis, that is a medical diagnosis that you can bill for. So like, boom, right there, I can bill for that. And so all of a sudden we’re just, we’re trying to bill for things, we’re trying to do things that are gonna get the clinic paid, because that’s what the higher ups are pushing you to do. And oh, by the way, doing lifestyle counseling, it takes a lot of time. So if you don’t have that kind of time, it’s really hard to get someone to wanna invest the time to learn it, to be able to do it right, if it’s not gonna like realistically be part of your practice in a general insurance-based primary care setting.

Stephanie: I wanna get into the business side of this because we kind of put aside the marketing of Ozempic and Vigo V, but people have to understand medication in the United States is a business, the same way medical care is a business. So they’re taking the same drug ozempic, they’re slapping a new label on it, and now that becomes a weight loss drug, which was in the first case, a diabetes drug. So that, because they know if they put weight loss on it, it’s gonna sell more and then it’s gonna be prescribable. So now it gets into the medical care, like there’s a whole business behind weight loss and physical care.

Stephanie: Am I correct?

Dr. Natalie: Absolutely. You can’t ignore that at all. There’s a whole business around it and I, the side of me that loves practicing medicine so much and believes in humanity, wants to think that there is more to it than that. That there are people out there making medications to hopefully help people, you know, but I start to get itchy when I, when, you know, the big craze around this ozempic situation has been all of these celebrities, you know, in this like whole push in Hollywood of people being like, I wanna lose not that much weight in the scheme of things. You know, when we look at the rest of our country and the majority of people being at a size that is higher than what we consider normal weight, quote unquote, normal weight, right?

Dr. Natalie: These people are what would be called small fat. Right. [Yeah.] Right. Like, like not [very small fat], exactly. And they’re taking these meds.

Stephanie: Well, and that was one of the question that I had was how does a, as a doctor, you deal with Influencer and Kim Kardashian being behind this ozempic to fit an address at the Met Gala. How does that impact you and how do you deal with that in your practice?

Dr. Natalie: It’s a lot of breaking the news to people that there’s more behind it, you know, than what we see on TikTok. Just trying to tell them like, this is why they are called influencers because they’re influencing things that a lot of times they don’t know anything about, but they’ve got the money to do it. And think about all the other things that go around managing somebody’s weight, personal trainers, access to fresh food that’s cooked for you, access to all of the other things that help your mental health, including therapy and acupuncture. The list of things when you have money is endless to keep your body the way it quote unquote should look. What’s, [a full-time job] it’s a full-time job. It’s a full-time setup and system. And oh, by the way, for those of you who are working two jobs, good luck. You know, for those of you who are just trying to make ends meet, like probably not gonna happen.

Dr. Natalie: It’s really the gap here in our society is so big and when that’s who you’re seeing on TikTok is those people who have all those resources and they’re like, it’s just the ozempic, that’s a load of crap, frankly. And that’s what I tell my patients because I’m not gonna sugar coat it for them, and I’m not gonna prescribe something just because they saw it on TikTok and think that it’s gonna help. We’re gonna have a full-blown conversation about this.

Stephanie: So another question that was submitted to me that goes into the line of that is Weight Watcher. Weight Watcher has bought a telehealth company that is connecting Doctor, and I’m assuming in an attempt to lose weight, and prescribing Weight Watcher as a way to lose weight. Has that hit you yet? And, and how are we proceeding with that from your perspective?

Dr. Natalie: I think this is being done in so many different settings. I mean, we saw it with a D H D. Like some of the, especially with the pandemic, when things, you know, we had limited access to mental health, a drastic need for it. We saw a big emergence of telehealth, psychiatric companies that then could just prescribe meds over a computer. And we’re seeing this with weight loss in a bunch of different companies. So Weight Watchers, which is now WW by the way,

Stephanie: Yes, wellness that works, I think it’s called.

Dr. Natalie: Yeah. So, it’s not shocking,that they’re bringing this into things and I wouldn’t be surprised if medications are being prescribed along with these WW plans.

Stephanie: Well that’s what these, the person said, there’s also a medication soon that will come out, or weight watcher bot share in a company.

Dr. Natalie: Why not? I mean, it’s the wild, wild west. Really? Why not? I’m not surprised by that. And again, it’s all back to, we’ve gotta get your body looking like we want it to as a society. That is the ultimate goal. We cannot put in the time to make things more accessible to people of different body sizes. Why would we do that? Right? Like, that’s the thought here. It’s like, we just are gonna keep coming up with ways to get you smaller instead of addressing the underlying actual societal, cultural, socioeconomic issues that are at hand.

Stephanie: Yeah, because adapting life to fit all bodies is this expense and selling weight loss as a revenue. Like I’m from the corporate world, so that’s a clear reason why, like expense versus revenue. We live in a cap society, we’re gonna pick revenue.

Dr. Natalie: We’re gonna pick revenue and can I bring something else up that, that has been really remarkable for me as a physician and I’m a young physician, right? I’m not super far out from training. I’ve been in practice long enough now that I have an established practice and, have learned a lot but I’m an, I’m an ever learner as we always should be. And something that has been challenging for me in the best way possible for my journey as a doctor thus far is challenging my weight bias and challenging weight stigma in healthcare. And when you said that changing things is an expense, it’s not only a money expense, but it is a, now I’ve gotta sit and think about this. Now, I, as a physician, need to think about how I treat patients. And, I’ve had this conversation before. I, I had it on a podcast with Dr. Maggie Lambda, which was, we both had gone through a transformation of that, where we all of a sudden said, Man, all I’ve learned is kind of going out the window now, and how I’ve approached patients, I look back and I’m thinking, it’s not that I was blatantly being disrespectful, rude, hateful, ever. It was, I didn’t know any better that the things I was prescribing and recommending were not enough and they weren’t through a lens that was gonna actually help my patients.

Stephanie: They were through the lens, I always say that they were through the lens of our training. My training was extremely fat phobic, right? All I learned is to prescribe calories and macros. I never learned a concept of eating Q and I’m a freaking nutritionist. Like think about that. Three years of post-graduate where, and never one time did we talk about eating cues. [Wow.] Like, so, it’s not quote unquote your fault, it’s the lands of your training.

Stephanie: Let’s ask this question. I asked this question to Maggie on the podcast, but I’d love to hear your perspective. For a patient that goes into a doctor that wants to weigh them, that wants to tell them to lose weight, what could they say? What is the best way of approaching that fat phobic doctor who doesn’t know any better.

Dr. Natalie: One question you can ask is, how would you treat somebody who is of a, a thinner weight, a smaller weight? So what would the prescription be for them? That would be an interesting answer. I’m sure and also you can advocate for yourself. It’s hard, I would imagine it is challenging, but can you say, I don’t wanna be weighed today. Period.

Stephanie: Yeah. You have the right not to be right. You have the right for anybody. Like it’s a right. You’re not forced to go on the scale, but you have to have the emotional courage [yes] to stand for yourself. You shouldn’t have to, but you have to.

Dr. Natalie: Yeah. And all the emotional courage it took you to even show up in the doctor’s office in the first place may have been just about enough, you know? And you’re kind of tapped out at that point.

Stephanie: And that’s the many of the question came in is, Doctor prescribing or suggesting ozempic and people being at their with him and thinking they have to take the ozempic medicine to comply with their doctor so that they can get the care that they want for the other issue they have. [Sure.] That’s a pretty sad situation.

Dr. Natalie: It’s a very sad situation, I would imagine. It’s not, out of the realm of possibility.

Stephanie: Well, specifically for my audience, which is women 35 to 55, that have dieted most of their life. So there’s a lot of weight conversation because they’ve stopped dieting, they’ve gained the weight back, and now everything is centered around the weight.

Dr. Natalie: Mm-hmm. And it’s interesting because I talk about this a lot on my social media is, we go by b m I, you know, we’re, we just love B m I and healthcare as a way that we can stratify people and identify people who are at risk for certain conditions. And when we go by that we are missing a big part of the population that need to be screened for issues that could come up. I always think about how, as somebody who struggled with disordered eating for most of my life at this point, I never was screened for that. Are you kidding me? Because I was an athletic thin white female. Why would anybody think that any could, anything could be wrong? I’m conforming to exactly how I should look. So how could I possibly have disordered eating that was tearing away in my mental health and could have potentially gotten worse. And so we’re missing that population talking about these things.

Stephanie: And even if you are like, I am in the range of B M I that’s supposedly very dangerous for my health, to all the other metrics, I am like in the top tier, right? But the only thing, if I let my physician do what she wants to do, that’s the only thing, we’re, we’re gonna disregard everything why I class on like the top percentile and we’re just gonna focus on this. [Mm-hmm. Oh yeah.] That’s fat phobia at play, [it is] everybody.

Dr. Natalie: It’s, it’s fat phobia and or complete ignorance to the other factors that are important to someone’s health and what is considered healthy. Right? It’s not just the body shape that you have. It’s not just the weight on a scale. It’s, are you able to get down and play with your kids? Are you able to carry around groceries, from your car to your house without feeling winded, painful joints. How is your cholesterol panel, what’s your a o b? What’s your, H S C R P, like all these labs? What’s your glucose like? Let’s, let’s get a little bit broader here on our definition of one’s health. And I think that people would find it fascinating to then see how many people that are considered fat are exercising very regularly and kind of killing it and very much engaged in their life and comfortable. And how many people have significant disordered eating behavior that are not fat, and we’re not even talking to them about this, right?

Stephanie: So it is, I know that from my lived experience, but I want to hear it from you and help women get that message reinforced. It’s possible to have the conversation about your help with your physician in a fat body and not make it about the weight. There’s plenty of other things we can talk about and assess your health on beyond the weight.

Dr. Natalie: Yes. I think one interesting thing would be, before you go into a doctor’s visit, is writing down your activities of daily living and how does your body, whatever it looks like, play into that. Do you find that you are comfortable? Do you find that you’re doing the things that you love to do and feeling well with that? And just to say to somebody, listen, you’re talking about my weight, I’m doing fine. Like, I’m doing well, so can we stop talking about my weight and start talking about these other things that I wanna discuss, and these other things that I think should be reviewed and kept an eye on.

Stephanie: Well, and then specifically again, for my niche, the whole perimenopause and menopause and all the side effects. That comes along with that, but that gets brushed away [yes] to make room for the wait conversation, unfortunately. But you can, as a patient, redirect the conversation to where you want it to be.

Dr. Natalie: And I think there will be, if somebody hears what we have just said, [yeah] they might say, why isn’t my responsibility to do that? The doctor should do that. And I, I hear you. And so another route, if you’re not comfortable with the redirecting or you think it’s not, your problem to do it, it’s not your thing to have to do, finding in your community a doctor who is comfortable with health at every size. And finding a resource through the grapevine word of mouth is a powerful thing. And people talk about healthcare settings where they feel safe. And so asking around about that is absolutely okay as well.

Stephanie: I wanna come to a NA of the conversation. We’re gonna close back on this whole ozempic and wait, I think we make the case that health is possible beyond the weight and how to manage our conversation with our medical team on this Ozempic Vigo V, which people will hear about shortly, I’m sure, through advertisement in the us, what would be your parting word for somebody who hears about that and think, oh, maybe that’s the solution to my weight issue.

Dr. Natalie: I would recommend having an educated conversation with a healthcare professional whom you trust and talking about all of the options that are out there medication wise, outside of just these two specific or three now that are out there, medications. And having a discussion even with a mental health professional about your relationship with food, about your relationship with your body, because regardless of taking these medications, that is something that’s gonna need to be addressed most likely, and the medications are not going to fix those issues. So having a trusted physician, having a trusted dietician, a trusted mental health professional in your court will give you a better chance of long-term success regardless of what medication you do or do not choose to take.

Stephanie: That’s brilliant. Thank you very much Dr. Natalie for having had this very good conversation with us and helping forming ideas and brains of people and then they can take the next step, more educated from a neutral perspective instead of an engage on either side perspective.

Dr. Natalie: Thank you.

Dr. Natalie:

 

read more
357-How To Go Beyond The Food in 3 Steps

357-How To Go Beyond The Food in 3 Steps

Going Beyond The Food in 3 steps

Food was never the problem. The size of our pants was never the problem either.

So why do we focus our healing approach on the actual food and body?

The reason why human experience struggles with food, health behaviors and their body isn’t because of a lack of intellectual knowledge or efforts.

it’s beyond the food, body or health habits.

How to Go Beyond The Food in 3 steps

In this episode, I’m going to be teaching you how to go beyond the food in 3 steps.

I’ll also be introducing you to the Going Beyond The Food Challenge and invite you to join us. 

What you’ll learn listening to this episode on Going Beyond The Food In 3 Steps:

  • How I created the 3 steps to go beyond the food
  • The 3 steps of going beyond the food and change any behaviors with food and beyond food.
  • How to take your learning about going beyond the food to the next level.

Mentioned in the show: 

Going Beyond the Food Challenge

Non-Diet Coaching Certification

Health Habits Checklist

Transcript

Going Beyond The Food Show 357: How To Go Beyond The Food in 3 Steps

This is episode 357 of The Beyond the Food Show, and today I’m gonna teach you how to go beyond the food in Tree steps because it was never about the food or your body. Stay tuned.

Hello my sisters and welcome back to this episode. A little bit of context here. This episode is about teaching you how to go beyond the food in three steps, and I wanna set the tone to be really upfront with you. Going beyond the food is the name of my company. That’s the name from which I operate on Diet Your Life. It’s the name of where I host a non diet coaching certification. It’s my company. My company was name going beyond the food and I’m gonna give you the story behind that before I teach you how to go beyond the food in three steps.

I, as probably many of you know, I’m a clinical nutritionist. I’m classically trained in nutrition and upon graduation from school, I went in to open a nutrition clinic, the traditional model of helping people with nutrition, an office, local marketing, getting people locally to come and see the nutritionist. At an office, I had a secretary in six to seven hours a day, I was seeing patient one after the other, helping them with their nutrition. And I did that for three years, almost on the clock, in a clinical nutrition format. And very quickly within the first year, I kept, well, I observed a pattern probably within the first six, eight months, a pattern in presentation of my client and their nutrition struggle. And for another six month, I kept seeing the same pattern over and over and over again. And the pattern is that people were coming to me for nutrition challenges, but the reason that they were struggling with nutrition wasn’t because they didn’t know enough about food, which is what we were taught in school. We were taught that the solution to helping people eat better was to give them all the intellectual information we had a choir in our degree and like give them all the information and that is what’s gonna change our behavior around food.

And I did exactly what I was taught and then it didn’t work. Nine and a half people out of end, that didn’t work. And I presume that for the 0.5 person at Lieutenant at work, it’s because I didn’t see them long enough for me to realize it wasn’t working. And I remember vividly because it was a local business, I would go to community activity. I would see my client, the client had worked with, say a year ago, I would see them a year later, and then the first thing they would tell me after saying, Hey, Stephanie, was, I’m so ashamed. Everything you taught me, it didn’t work out. I wasn’t able to keep it up. I’m so bad. People would run away from me. Like I would see somebody locally and I would see them and then they would disappear because people were ashamed of not being able to keep up the healthy eating abbots, and I’m using Air quote alone in my office here that I had taught them. And there was this particular client, her name was Carolyn, and I will remember her for the rest of my life. It’s about a year and a half or so in practice. She walked in into my office and within a minute of entering my office and seeing me, she start bawling and crying, and she was so ashamed. Stephanie, I’ve been working with you for three months. I’m so ashamed I can’t do what you’re teaching me. I hide food in the car I eat on the way back from the grocery. I’m such a bad person. It was so profoundly affecting her like she was shaking because it was a form of trauma, which I didn’t know at the time, but she was, my relationship to her as a nutritionist and her trying to eat healthy was a traumatic experience. I was causing her, that’s trauma. Although at the time I didn’t have a name for it, but I knew something was wrong and that client propelled me into looking for an answer. And then what I realized a year and a half later, after all this research and encountering health at every size and intuitive eating, the answer was beyond the food.

And here we are today, 10 years later, me having now worked for eight years exclusively without the traditional approach nutrition by going beyond the food by addressing the real reason why people struggle with food. I have an entire framework and methodology behind that that I’ve been testing and testing and having amazing success with my clients with, and that’s what I wanna teach you today, how to go beyond the food.

Now, I’m gonna be upfront with you, this episode’s gonna be 20 minutes or so. I am not going to be able to teach you my life’s work in 20 minutes, but I have an opportunity, and offer, an invitation for you. I’m gonna teach you the basic today of going beyond the food in three steps, and I’m gonna offer you to come and study with me for a whole week. I’m hosting on May the 15th, 2023 to May 19th, 2023, a four day live training series where I am going to deep dive in each of the step during a whole hour. I’m gonna teach you more science behind it. I’m gonna teach you more in detail, the step and how to do it, and then I’m gonna answer question on each one of those steps. I’m inviting you to come and study with me for yourself or for you to work with other women now or in the future in learning how to go beyond the food. It’s called Going Beyond the Food Challenge. It’s a four day life training and get this. It’s only $37 for four hours of training with me, the workbooks, the recording for a whole three weeks. And the reason why I’m making it so affordable is because I want this information out into the world. Now I’m not making it free. A three because I want you and whoever’s gonna come to have a little bit of skin in the game to actually come to the training. Cuz we know if people are not live in the room, there’s very little chance for them to watch all the recording. Right? So I’m charging a small cost and I’m making it affordable at $37 in order for most of you to be able to come, and for those of you who are financially not capable at this time, to pay the $37, you can email [email protected] and we will help you. And remember, for those that are financially privileged to be able to pay the $37, every one of you that pay the price of entry, you are helping your sister out there who can’t manage the $37 in her life at this time. So this event’s gonna be live and I’m gonna be teaching for four days straight, and I’m gonna be be teaching this three step to go beyond the food.

So one thing that became very clear to me seven years ago, was that it was, the problem wasn’t food. The problem wasn’t the information or the lack thereof information around food that caused eating behavior. It wasn’t the size of the pants of my client or me either, because I had clients at all weight ranges, all struggling with their food behavior. But yet the only thing I knew to do was to actually give more information about food and give more information about the body and it actually was counterproductive. It was making people more overwhelmed and accentuate the behavior, but it was like a delay. They would change their behavior temporarily, and then they would have a bounce back that made their behavior even worse. And then I had to come to the conclusion that it was not about the food, it was beyond the food.

So if the food or the knowledge about the food isn’t what’s causing the behavior, then what is? And that is step one of going beyond the food is identifying the real problem that’s causing the, we’ll call it the distorted eating pattern or the distorted health habit pattern, or the distorted relationship to the body pattern, identify the real problem and address the real problem. And now we’re gonna do, in day one, we’re gonna teach you exactly what stands behind any behavioral pattern. Now, it took me two and a half years of training to like simplify it in the way I’m going to teach it to you. But let me tell you right now what it is. What’s standing behind any behavioral pattern in human, including food and body and health is the nervous system. The nervous system, which is your brain plus your spine and all the nerves in your body, literally the nervous system is what ignite our behavioral pattern. So what happens is your brain, what happen in your nervous system throughout your whole body is what’s gonna dictate what kind of behavioral pattern you’re gonna have. So what is that? It’s your emotion, right? Everything that happens in your spine and your nervous system, all the sensation in your body, some people may call it the fight or flight, the freeze. That’s the emotional response in your body from what happens in your brain, your thoughts, your belief that happens in the higher part of the nervous system, your brain. You have a thought, you have a belief that ignite in presence of the circumstance, in this case food, your belief about food create a thought, a judgment, an assessment around the food in front of you, and that trickles down in the rest of your body in an emotional response that then gets manifested into the world. It comes from your body into the world in a behavioral pattern. But it starts, the root cause is in your higher part of your nervous system, your brain, your thoughts, and your belief.

So in order for you to go beyond the food you need to identify the thought and or the belief that caused the emotional response that ignite the behavioral pattern. That’s step one. So put your finger on the thoughts and the belief or a collection of belief, the belief system, and then step two, then change that thought or that belief. Examine the thought in the belief and decide if you want to continue to think about food in that way, if you want to continue to believe that food should be approached this way, trying to be very global here. Have the authority to decide what you wanna think about food, and then change that thought or that belief. And then step three, as you are learning to believe a new thought about food, make it safe for you to have the emotional response that you’ve been used to having for a long time and make it safe for you to change that response and have another behavioral pattern.

So you need to unboard your nervous system. You need to create safety into your nervous system in order for you to change your behavioral pattern. And that’s the tree step, right? And when you do that, you are able to change your behavior around food, around health, around how you think and act towards your body on anything. Could be work habits, it could be career habits and business habits, you are able to change any behavioral pattern, any habits that you want in you understanding how behavioral patterns are created. That’s what I’m gonna teach you how to do. So on day one, we’re going to learn a framework for you to understand where to look as a real problem for the behavior you wanna change. And then two, how to change that belief system that thought, and how to bring safety to your nervous system to change your habit. And then on the fourth day, we talk about goals because here’s the thing, we foolishly think that diet culture, the system of belief that says to women you need to be thin in order to be valuable, that globally says to women you need to be anything else and you are right now, we think it only affects food and health and body image. But the truth, to be told, it affects every part of our life. And what I have found again, specifically over the last three years in helping women from a business and a career, like coaching at a goal level for career in business, is that we approach goals thinking it’s a sign of our worth if we achieve it, because that’s what DIA culture thought us us to do when we were dieting, right? The goal was to lose the weight so we can be worthy and we have that imprinted into our brain that achieving a goal is something, it’s life or death, and we have to do it and we have to be all in, and we have to use like willpower and self-discipline. And the goal is to achieve the goal. What if this wasn’t true? What if setting a goal had nothing to do with achieving the goal, but instead becoming the version of you who has the goal to think the thoughts and feel the emotion and have the habits. That was the reason why we set a goal.

So we’re gonna learn to think about goals globally differently. We’re gonna apply it to our behavior around food and body because that’s the topic, but know that you’re gonna come out of this knowing how to apply it to anything. So those are the four days we’re gonna spend together. I wanna remind you of the dates and where to go to join us if you wanna know more. Like I gave you the 15 minute version here, that’s good enough. You can do some Google searching and read some article on my stuff in my website and probably gonna be able to piece the information together. For $37, I’m gonna put it all together with you in a nice four hour training and a workbook. So May 16th, 17 and 18th, 2023, the live trainings are gonna be from 12:30 e s t to 1:30 PM. The recording will be available within three hours of the session ending. You’re gonna have a webpage where you’re gonna have all your recording in one place, Gonna get a workbook. So all the protocols I’m gonna give you, I’m gonna give you the weight piece protocol. I’m gonna give you the habit protocol. I’m going to give you how to change your thoughts, protocol. I’m gonna give you all the protocols that I use with my client in that workbook and all of it is for $37. You can go to the show notes of this podcast episode, or you can go to ww dot stephanie dozi eight.com/going beyond the food challenge. This four day life training, this challenge is open to anyone that is self-identified as a woman. You can be a beginner from leaving diet culture to a person that’s been out of diet culture for years, to a coach, to a therapist, to a dietician. We have dietician who we’re emailing me yesterday, want to join because they’re like me. They just graduated, one of them emailed me yesterday, she just graduated with a master’s degree, five years in university, and she was never taught how to coach behavior. So I told her to come to the training. This is gonna be people from all background. This is probably going to be one of the most powerful life training that I will have had the pleasure to put together. We’ll see after the event, but I think it’s gonna be extremely powerful because I’m gonna show you the framework that changes it all, like the formula to apply it to anything.

So I’m inviting you. I would love for you to be with me in that event. If not, you’ve got the tree step here on how to go beyond the phone, and I think you’ve got a good base. You can start practicing on your own. And if you listen to the podcast, hours and hours of them, you’re probably gonna piece all the other information. If not, commence spend that whole week together with me in May, and I’m gonna knock your socks off. I guarantee that I’m gonna knock your socks off by Thursday, when you leave the training session, I’m gonna blow your mind guaranteed. With that in mind, I probably, you can feel the energy that I have behind that, I can’t wait to have you with me in those trainings, and I love you, my sister, and I’ll see you on the next podcast.

 

Going Beyond The Food Show 357: Going Beyond The Food In 3 Steps

This is episode 357 of The Beyond the Food Show, and today I’m gonna teach you how to go beyond the food in Tree steps because it was never about the food or your body. Stay tuned.

Hello my sisters and welcome back to this episode. A little bit of context here. This episode is about teaching you how to go beyond the food in three steps, and I wanna set the tone to be really upfront with you. Going beyond the food is the name of my company. That’s the name from which I operate on Diet Your Life. It’s the name of where I host a non diet coaching certification. It’s my company. My company was name going beyond the food and I’m gonna give you the story behind that before I teach you how to go beyond the food in three steps.

I, as probably many of you know, I’m a clinical nutritionist. I’m classically trained in nutrition and upon graduation from school, I went in to open a nutrition clinic, the traditional model of helping people with nutrition, an office, local marketing, getting people locally to come and see the nutritionist. At an office, I had a secretary in six to seven hours a day, I was seeing patient one after the other, helping them with their nutrition. And I did that for three years, almost on the clock, in a clinical nutrition format. And very quickly within the first year, I kept, well, I observed a pattern probably within the first six, eight months, a pattern in presentation of my client and their nutrition struggle. And for another six month, I kept seeing the same pattern over and over and over again. And the pattern is that people were coming to me for nutrition challenges, but the reason that they were struggling with nutrition wasn’t because they didn’t know enough about food, which is what we were taught in school. We were taught that the solution to helping people eat better was to give them all the intellectual information we had a choir in our degree and like give them all the information and that is what’s gonna change our behavior around food.

And I did exactly what I was taught and then it didn’t work. Nine and a half people out of end, that didn’t work. And I presume that for the 0.5 person at Lieutenant at work, it’s because I didn’t see them long enough for me to realize it wasn’t working. And I remember vividly because it was a local business, I would go to community activity. I would see my client, the client had worked with, say a year ago, I would see them a year later, and then the first thing they would tell me after saying, Hey, Stephanie, was, I’m so ashamed. Everything you taught me, it didn’t work out. I wasn’t able to keep it up. I’m so bad. People would run away from me. Like I would see somebody locally and I would see them and then they would disappear because people were ashamed of not being able to keep up the healthy eating abbots, and I’m using Air quote alone in my office here that I had taught them. And there was this particular client, her name was Carolyn, and I will remember her for the rest of my life. It’s about a year and a half or so in practice. She walked in into my office and within a minute of entering my office and seeing me, she start bawling and crying, and she was so ashamed. Stephanie, I’ve been working with you for three months. I’m so ashamed I can’t do what you’re teaching me. I hide food in the car I eat on the way back from the grocery. I’m such a bad person. It was so profoundly affecting her like she was shaking because it was a form of trauma, which I didn’t know at the time, but she was, my relationship to her as a nutritionist and her trying to eat healthy was a traumatic experience. I was causing her, that’s trauma. Although at the time I didn’t have a name for it, but I knew something was wrong and that client propelled me into looking for an answer. And then what I realized a year and a half later, after all this research and encountering health at every size and intuitive eating, the answer was beyond the food.

And here we are today, 10 years later, me having now worked for eight years exclusively without the traditional approach nutrition by going beyond the food by addressing the real reason why people struggle with food. I have an entire framework and methodology behind that that I’ve been testing and testing and having amazing success with my clients with, and that’s what I wanna teach you today, how to go beyond the food.

Now, I’m gonna be upfront with you, this episode’s gonna be 20 minutes or so. I am not going to be able to teach you my life’s work in 20 minutes, but I have an opportunity, and offer, an invitation for you. I’m gonna teach you the basic today of going beyond the food in three steps, and I’m gonna offer you to come and study with me for a whole week. I’m hosting on May the 15th, 2023 to May 19th, 2023, a four day live training series where I am going to deep dive in each of the step during a whole hour. I’m gonna teach you more science behind it. I’m gonna teach you more in detail, the step and how to do it, and then I’m gonna answer question on each one of those steps. I’m inviting you to come and study with me for yourself or for you to work with other women now or in the future in learning how to go beyond the food. It’s called Going Beyond the Food Challenge. It’s a four day life training and get this. It’s only $37 for four hours of training with me, the workbooks, the recording for a whole three weeks. And the reason why I’m making it so affordable is because I want this information out into the world. Now I’m not making it free. A three because I want you and whoever’s gonna come to have a little bit of skin in the game to actually come to the training. Cuz we know if people are not live in the room, there’s very little chance for them to watch all the recording. Right? So I’m charging a small cost and I’m making it affordable at $37 in order for most of you to be able to come, and for those of you who are financially not capable at this time, to pay the $37, you can email [email protected] and we will help you. And remember, for those that are financially privileged to be able to pay the $37, every one of you that pay the price of entry, you are helping your sister out there who can’t manage the $37 in her life at this time. So this event’s gonna be live and I’m gonna be teaching for four days straight, and I’m gonna be be teaching this three step to go beyond the food.

So one thing that became very clear to me seven years ago, was that it was, the problem wasn’t food. The problem wasn’t the information or the lack thereof information around food that caused eating behavior. It wasn’t the size of the pants of my client or me either, because I had clients at all weight ranges, all struggling with their food behavior. But yet the only thing I knew to do was to actually give more information about food and give more information about the body and it actually was counterproductive. It was making people more overwhelmed and accentuate the behavior, but it was like a delay. They would change their behavior temporarily, and then they would have a bounce back that made their behavior even worse. And then I had to come to the conclusion that it was not about the food, it was beyond the food.

So if the food or the knowledge about the food isn’t what’s causing the behavior, then what is? And that is step one of going beyond the food is identifying the real problem that’s causing the, we’ll call it the distorted eating pattern or the distorted health habit pattern, or the distorted relationship to the body pattern, identify the real problem and address the real problem. And now we’re gonna do, in day one, we’re gonna teach you exactly what stands behind any behavioral pattern. Now, it took me two and a half years of training to like simplify it in the way I’m going to teach it to you. But let me tell you right now what it is. What’s standing behind any behavioral pattern in human, including food and body and health is the nervous system. The nervous system, which is your brain plus your spine and all the nerves in your body, literally the nervous system is what ignite our behavioral pattern. So what happens is your brain, what happen in your nervous system throughout your whole body is what’s gonna dictate what kind of behavioral pattern you’re gonna have. So what is that? It’s your emotion, right? Everything that happens in your spine and your nervous system, all the sensation in your body, some people may call it the fight or flight, the freeze. That’s the emotional response in your body from what happens in your brain, your thoughts, your belief that happens in the higher part of the nervous system, your brain. You have a thought, you have a belief that ignite in presence of the circumstance, in this case food, your belief about food create a thought, a judgment, an assessment around the food in front of you, and that trickles down in the rest of your body in an emotional response that then gets manifested into the world. It comes from your body into the world in a behavioral pattern. But it starts, the root cause is in your higher part of your nervous system, your brain, your thoughts, and your belief.

So in order for you to go beyond the food you need to identify the thought and or the belief that caused the emotional response that ignite the behavioral pattern. That’s step one. So put your finger on the thoughts and the belief or a collection of belief, the belief system, and then step two, then change that thought or that belief. Examine the thought in the belief and decide if you want to continue to think about food in that way, if you want to continue to believe that food should be approached this way, trying to be very global here. Have the authority to decide what you wanna think about food, and then change that thought or that belief. And then step three, as you are learning to believe a new thought about food, make it safe for you to have the emotional response that you’ve been used to having for a long time and make it safe for you to change that response and have another behavioral pattern.

So you need to unboard your nervous system. You need to create safety into your nervous system in order for you to change your behavioral pattern. And that’s the tree step, right? And when you do that, you are able to change your behavior around food, around health, around how you think and act towards your body on anything. Could be work habits, it could be career habits and business habits, you are able to change any behavioral pattern, any habits that you want in you understanding how behavioral patterns are created. That’s what I’m gonna teach you how to do. So on day one, we’re going to learn a framework for you to understand where to look as a real problem for the behavior you wanna change. And then two, how to change that belief system that thought, and how to bring safety to your nervous system to change your habit. And then on the fourth day, we talk about goals because here’s the thing, we foolishly think that diet culture, the system of belief that says to women you need to be thin in order to be valuable, that globally says to women you need to be anything else and you are right now, we think it only affects food and health and body image. But the truth, to be told, it affects every part of our life. And what I have found again, specifically over the last three years in helping women from a business and a career, like coaching at a goal level for career in business, is that we approach goals thinking it’s a sign of our worth if we achieve it, because that’s what DIA culture thought us us to do when we were dieting, right? The goal was to lose the weight so we can be worthy and we have that imprinted into our brain that achieving a goal is something, it’s life or death, and we have to do it and we have to be all in, and we have to use like willpower and self-discipline. And the goal is to achieve the goal. What if this wasn’t true? What if setting a goal had nothing to do with achieving the goal, but instead becoming the version of you who has the goal to think the thoughts and feel the emotion and have the habits. That was the reason why we set a goal.

So we’re gonna learn to think about goals globally differently. We’re gonna apply it to our behavior around food and body because that’s the topic, but know that you’re gonna come out of this knowing how to apply it to anything. So those are the four days we’re gonna spend together. I wanna remind you of the dates and where to go to join us if you wanna know more. Like I gave you the 15 minute version here, that’s good enough. You can do some Google searching and read some article on my stuff in my website and probably gonna be able to piece the information together. For $37, I’m gonna put it all together with you in a nice four hour training and a workbook. So May 16th, 17 and 18th, 2023, the live trainings are gonna be from 12:30 e s t to 1:30 PM. The recording will be available within three hours of the session ending. You’re gonna have a webpage where you’re gonna have all your recording in one place, Gonna get a workbook. So all the protocols I’m gonna give you, I’m gonna give you the weight piece protocol. I’m gonna give you the habit protocol and how to change your thoughts, protocol. I’m gonna give you all the protocols that I use with my client in that workbook and all of it is for $37. You can go to the show notes of this podcast episode, or you can go to www.stephaniedodier.com/going-beyond-the-food-challenge. This four day life training, this challenge is open to anyone that is self-identified as a woman. You can be a beginner from leaving diet culture to a person that’s been out of diet culture for years, to a coach, to a therapist, to a dietician. We have dietician who we’re emailing me yesterday, want to join because they’re like me. They just graduated, one of them emailed me yesterday, she just graduated with a master’s degree, five years in university, and she was never taught how to coach behavior. So I told her to come to the training. This is gonna be people from all background. This is probably going to be one of the most powerful life training that I will have had the pleasure to put together. We’ll see after the event, but I think it’s gonna be extremely powerful because I’m gonna show you the framework that changes it all, like the formula to apply it to anything.

So I’m inviting you. I would love for you to be with me in that event. If not, you’ve got the tree step here on how to go beyond the phone, and I think you’ve got a good base. You can start practicing on your own. And if you listen to the podcast, hours and hours of them, you’re probably gonna piece all the other information. If not, commence spend that whole week together with me in May, and I’m gonna knock your socks off. I guarantee that I’m gonna knock your socks off by Thursday, when you leave the training session, I’m gonna blow your mind guaranteed. With that in mind, I probably, you can feel the energy that I have behind that, I can’t wait to have you with me in those trainings, and I love you, my sister, and I’ll see you on the next podcast.

 

 

read more
356-Listener Q&A Vol.6: Eating More Vegetables & Changing Health Habits

356-Listener Q&A Vol.6: Eating More Vegetables & Changing Health Habits

Listener Q&A Vol.6 Eating More Vegetable & Changing Health Habits

 ITUNES PODCAST

GOOGLE PODCAST

SPOTIFY

Eating more vegetable & really how to change any health habits is going to be the focus of this listener  Q&A edition Vol.6  of the Going Beyond The Food show 

Here’s the question:

I’m 57 and I live in a large body. I’ve been doing IE for 1.5 years now. I’m struggling with adding more nutrient dense foods into my meals. I am not trying to lose weight (I’m past that) but I do want more nutrients in my body. I never ate veggies growing up. However, I see IE posts where IE nutritionists will say you will eventually crave them. What if you never ate them?? Only forced yourself each time you went on a new diet. It doesn’t come naturally for me to reach for veggies. Can this be changed?

What you’ll learn listening to this episode on eating more vegetables:

  • How to change any habits including eating more vegetables
  • Why awareness is what creates changes
  • Cognitive Behavioral Coaching model to create new habits

Mentioned in the show: 

Health Habits Checklist

Rebellious Eating Solution Webinar

Quiz: Is It You or Your Diet?

Undiet Your Life Coaching Program

Episode Transcript:

Going Beyond The Food Show Ep356-Listener Q&A Vol.6: Eating More Vegetables & Changing Health Habits

===

This is episode 356 of the Beyond the Food Show and today, we’re back with volume six of listener q and a, and I’m gonna answer a question around how to become a person who eats more vegetable, and I’m gonna approach it from the angle of changing any health habits and any really habits in your life. You ready? Stay tuned.

Welcome back my sister to the podcast. It’s volume six. Can you believe that, of listeners q and a, and this question literally just came in. It came in actually yesterday and I had this session for recording podcast that was scheduled today. So I thought, I’m gonna move to the top of the list of question because it is a question that I can expand to any habit formation. We’re gonna talk about it to answer very specifically a question of this particular listener around eating more vegetables. But I want you to think about this with any health habits or habits you want to create in your life.

So let’s go right in with a question.

I am 57 years old and I live in a large body. I’ve been doing intuitive eating for one and a half year now, and I’m struggling with adding more nutrients, dance food into my meal. I am not trying to lose weight. I am past that, but I want more nutrient in my. I never ate vegetables growing up, and I see intuitive eating social media posts where intuitive eating nutritionist will say that eventually you will crave them. What if you never ate them? Only force yourself to eat vegetable when you went on a new diet. It doesn’t come naturally for me to reach for vegetable. Can this be change? End of the question.

The answer is, absolutely it can be changed. This is simply a habit that needs to be created for you. And it’s important to understand, it’s a habit to have to be created because you’ve never had it. You’re not coming back the habit prior to dieting. It’s a habit you’ve never had. So you’re gonna, I want you to think about that with approaching it from ground zero. And if you are listening to this and you’re like, yeah, but it’s a habit perhaps that I had before I stopped doing it when I was in diet culture. Is it the same process? Absolutely, it’s the same process.

Now let’s get to the specific of the question around eating more vegetable. So if you are new to peaceful eating and intuitive eating contexts, know that the last step of the intuitive eating process is called Gentle Nutrition, where we go back to nutrition, how to approach food in order to fuel our body, to feed our body. But first we need to do the work of unraveling what intuitive eating called the food police, and all the rules we have about food and really neutralizing food. So that step is not to be done at the beginning of the process. And it’s very clear in the question that this personhas been working on unpacking all the first step of intuitive eating.

So gentle nutrition is the last step because that’s when we go back to understanding that there is some guidelines around how to bring food into our body that will support our body best. Now, one word that I picked up from the question that I wanna highlight to you, listener, is the word nutrient, dance food. And that, first of all, I would like for you to really listen to what I’m about to say and then really put in question who you are learning. The term nutrient dance food is a term created by that culture and wellness culture. It’s a term, I’m gonna read it word for word, the description: food that are high in nutrient, but relatively low in calorie. There’s probably all kinds of alarm bells that are going off in your brain. The term nutrient dance food originate from diet culture, then got overtaken by wellness culture, where then we deemed the value of a food not necessarily on the low calorie, which is what DI culture does, but instead on the quote amount of the right nutrient in the food.

So based on the philosophy or the paradigm you’re under with nutrition, that could be food that are higher in protein and lower in carb, food that are lower in fat and higher in carbohydrates, depends on what you are co-opting as far as your philosophy into wellness culture. Do you see how tricky this whole concept of nutrient dance food is?

I personally do not label food in any way, shape, or form, including nutrient dance food. And there’s a very specific reason, first of all because I don’t co-opt any of those terms. I would say there’s two reasons because I don’t co-op any of those terms. And then two, because it continues to support that certain food are better than other food, which is fundamentally a principle that is not supported by intuitive eating. And then when you start looking into the world of how your brain functions and how we create habit in our life, you will then meet up with a lot of resistance, a lot of rebellious behavior when you’re trying to do something that’s supposed to be bettered than something else.

So when we label food as nutrient dance food, we, a, co-op wellness culture and diet culture, but we tell our brain these foods are better to eat than the other. Very subconscious, right? These foods are better and I should want, and you say that than your question, I should want to eat these food but I’m not. So something must be wrong with me. And then we start triggering rebellious behavior.

So listener, if you haven’t yet watched my free class on Rebellious Eating, go to my website, ww.stephanie.com, and right on the first page, you will see Rebellious Eating Solution, go and listen to that. To, stop labeling food as nutrient dance food and then three, learn how to create habits. To answer your question, can this be changed? Yes. If you know how to create any habits into your life. And this is where the understanding of your brain will come in. I wanna give my opinion on this comment given by intuitive eating nutritionist, quote, it will just come to you naturally to eat vegetable, end of quote.

That’s a problem in our industry in which nutritionist, how we are trained, no matter how long our degree, our master degree, our PhD is, we are not trained in behavioral change. We are trained in the science of nutrition. We are trained into medical nutrition, but we are not change on how to create behavioral change in our client.

I know this is crazy. For you as a consumer of our service, you’re like, what? No, we’re not. I just spoke at the University ofi Idaho, and I had the entire professor staff in front of me and none of them had any understanding of cognitive behavioral change. I was training them and I was teaching them. I know this from training professionals. My professional training, on dietary coaching, the biggest component of it is cognitive behavioral change or, how to coach behavior in your client, cuz that’s the missing piece we’re not trained on. So that this nutritionist who said that it will just come, bless her heart, but she does not understand how behavior are created in human.

Let me tell you how it’s created here right now. Okay. This is from the World of Neuroscience. This is from the world of cognitive behavioral therapy. You can Google that, C B T, cognitive behavioral therapy, where we understand, based on our research on how the brain and human behavior work that our thoughts create the emotion we feel in our body and the emotion we experience in our body ignite a reaction, a behavior into the world.

So the way you think about vegetables creates the emotion you have towards vegetable, resistance in your case, and then you act towards vegetable from a place of feeling resistant. So you’re probably having some rebellious behavior. No, I know I should, but I can’t, but I don’t want to. What am I gonna do? I’m lost. I’m confused, right? You’re having all those thoughts because you’re resistant, because you’re experiencing resistance because of the way you think about eating vegetables.

We teach that process, cognitive behavioral coaching in on your life at a very easy to understand an application process and we teach it at a more complex level for a professional so they understand the behind the scene, but I want you to think about it in this easy process: pause, investigate, decide.

Pause is what you’re doing right now. By asking me the question, how can I go about eating more vegetable, you’ve paused. You’re like, something’s not working. I’m resisting this vegetable thing, I don’t wanna force myself, that just doesn’t feel right to me, so let me pause and figure out the answer to that. Right. You’re, you want to stop just trying to force yourself, so you’re asking question, you’re becoming your own leader through your transformation, in this case, in the relationship to vegetable. By the way, we just released a podcast 3 54 on resistance, that could be really helpful for.

So then investigate, why. Why are you feeling resistant towards eating vegetables? Awareness is what creates change. Awareness, becoming aware of why you are creating the feeling of resisting vegetable is what will create change, not forcing yourself. But you know that right? You told me that like, but anybody listening right now, they think that white knuckling yourself is the path to creating any habit? No, it’s never gonna work. It will work until it doesn’t. What I’m explaining to you right now, the path of investigating, pausing, and investigating, why am I being the way I am right now? Why am I not moving my body? Why am I not drinking water? Why am I not eating vegetable? Understand how currently you are creating this experience you have with vegetables. Understand the now and then once you understand why, and you had a great clue in your question, you said something about your childhood. There’s an experience in your childhood with vegetable that you are continuing to carry with you right now. So there’s a way of thinking about vegetable, either a traumatic experience, something your parent taught you, because for whatever reason, you are continuing to think in alignment to the same way you were when you were a child.

And that’s why you are not eating the vegetable, and that’s why you’re resisting eating quote, nutrient dense food because there’s a conflict in your brain on the way you’re thinking about vegetables. So figure that out, literally what we call, do a thought download of what you’re currently thinking about vegetable, and then look at your thought. And I want you to decide, in order for me to eat vegetable, I’m gonna have to change some of these way of believing and thinking about vegetable. Do I want to do this? Ask yourself consent, like this thought, this thought, this thought will have to change. Do I want to do this? As a 57 year old woman, am I willing to change the way that I think about eating and vegetable? If the answer is yes, move forward to creating a new way of thinking about vegetable and do that in a partnership with yourself, not by white-knuckling yourself, but by being very compassionate and safe with yourself.

So I thought could be it’s possible for me in the future to enjoy. And then one of the action you can take is go buy or download from the internet, a cooking book that you feel attracted to that talks about vegetables, that gives you recipes and way of giving an interpretation to vegetable that sound appealing to you. That’s one of the principle of intuitive eating is satisfaction, right? So based on what makes you feel satisfied, how can you engage with vegetable? For a lot of people who are new to the world of vegetable, it’s adding things they like to the vegetable, right? Could be sauces, it could be cheeses, it could be frying the vegetables, right? Enter prep, cook the vegetable in a way that will sound appealing to you and make it fun for you. And think thought that will align you to create those action in your life.

That process, pause, investigate, the sign, is the same for any habit you want to create in your life. The most difficult part is the pause and investigate. We’re just not used to that. As a society, we wanna jump to the result right away. We’re not comfortable being with ourself as we are and going into our brain and understanding what is creating the current circumstance that we want to change right now. But that’s the secret, quote unquote secret, to changing any habit.

I hoped I helped you with that. I have given you a lot of information here. If you want to come and join us, you’re saying you’re not in our program and you had the word yet, please come and join us. There’s two ways for you to work with us in on diet your life. You can do the self-study experience or you can hire one of my coaches in my team, the one that I trained in a professional training program to help you apply the Unat your life process and create a version of yourself who will eat vegetable.

With that, my sister, I love you and I’ll see you on the next podcast.

 

Going Beyond The Food Show Ep356-Listener Q&A Vol.6: Eating More Vegetables & Changing Health Habits

This is episode 356 of the Beyond the Food Show and today, we’re back with volume six of listener q and a, and I’m gonna answer a question around how to become a person who eats more vegetable, and I’m gonna approach it from the angle of changing any health habits and any really habits in your life. You ready? Stay tuned.

Welcome back my sister to the podcast. It’s volume six. Can you believe that, of listeners q and a, and this question literally just came in. It came in actually yesterday and I had this session for recording podcast that was scheduled today. So I thought, I’m gonna move to the top of the list of question because it is a question that I can expand to any habit formation. We’re gonna talk about it to answer very specifically a question of this particular listener around eating more vegetables. But I want you to think about this with any health habits or habits you want to create in your life.

So let’s go right in with a question.

I am 57 years old and I live in a large body. I’ve been doing intuitive eating for one and a half year now, and I’m struggling with adding more nutrients, dance food into my meal. I am not trying to lose weight. I am past that, but I want more nutrient in my. I never ate vegetables growing up, and I see intuitive eating social media posts where intuitive eating nutritionist will say that eventually you will crave them. What if you never ate them? Only force yourself to eat vegetable when you went on a new diet. It doesn’t come naturally for me to reach for vegetable. Can this be change? End of the question.

The answer is, absolutely it can be changed. This is simply a habit that needs to be created for you. And it’s important to understand, it’s a habit to have to be created because you’ve never had it. You’re not coming back the habit prior to dieting. It’s a habit you’ve never had. So you’re gonna, I want you to think about that with approaching it from ground zero. And if you are listening to this and you’re like, yeah, but it’s a habit perhaps that I had before I stopped doing it when I was in diet culture. Is it the same process? Absolutely, it’s the same process.

Now let’s get to the specific of the question around eating more vegetable. So if you are new to peaceful eating and intuitive eating contexts, know that the last step of the intuitive eating process is called Gentle Nutrition, where we go back to nutrition, how to approach food in order to fuel our body, to feed our body. But first we need to do the work of unraveling what intuitive eating called the food police, and all the rules we have about food and really neutralizing food. So that step is not to be done at the beginning of the process. And it’s very clear in the question that this personhas been working on unpacking all the first step of intuitive eating.

So gentle nutrition is the last step because that’s when we go back to understanding that there is some guidelines around how to bring food into our body that will support our body best. Now, one word that I picked up from the question that I wanna highlight to you, listener, is the word nutrient, dance food. And that, first of all, I would like for you to really listen to what I’m about to say and then really put in question who you are learning. The term nutrient dance food is a term created by that culture and wellness culture. It’s a term, I’m gonna read it word for word, the description: food that are high in nutrient, but relatively low in calorie. There’s probably all kinds of alarm bells that are going off in your brain. The term nutrient dance food originate from diet culture, then got overtaken by wellness culture, where then we deemed the value of a food not necessarily on the low calorie, which is what DI culture does, but instead on the quote amount of the right nutrient in the food.

So based on the philosophy or the paradigm you’re under with nutrition, that could be food that are higher in protein and lower in carb, food that are lower in fat and higher in carbohydrates, depends on what you are co-opting as far as your philosophy into wellness culture. Do you see how tricky this whole concept of nutrient dance food is?

I personally do not label food in any way, shape, or form, including nutrient dance food. And there’s a very specific reason, first of all because I don’t co-opt any of those terms. I would say there’s two reasons because I don’t co-op any of those terms. And then two, because it continues to support that certain food are better than other food, which is fundamentally a principle that is not supported by intuitive eating. And then when you start looking into the world of how your brain functions and how we create habit in our life, you will then meet up with a lot of resistance, a lot of rebellious behavior when you’re trying to do something that’s supposed to be bettered than something else.

So when we label food as nutrient dance food, we, a, co-op wellness culture and diet culture, but we tell our brain these foods are better to eat than the other. Very subconscious, right? These foods are better and I should want, and you say that than your question, I should want to eat these food but I’m not. So something must be wrong with me. And then we start triggering rebellious behavior.

So listener, if you haven’t yet watched my free class on Rebellious Eating, go to my website, ww.stephanie.com, and right on the first page, you will see Rebellious Eating Solution, go and listen to that. To, stop labeling food as nutrient dance food and then three, learn how to create habits. To answer your question, can this be changed? Yes. If you know how to create any habits into your life. And this is where the understanding of your brain will come in. I wanna give my opinion on this comment given by intuitive eating nutritionist, quote, it will just come to you naturally to eat vegetable, end of quote.

That’s a problem in our industry in which nutritionist, how we are trained, no matter how long our degree, our master degree, our PhD is, we are not trained in behavioral change. We are trained in the science of nutrition. We are trained into medical nutrition, but we are not change on how to create behavioral change in our client.

I know this is crazy. For you as a consumer of our service, you’re like, what? No, we’re not. I just spoke at the University ofi Idaho, and I had the entire professor staff in front of me and none of them had any understanding of cognitive behavioral change. I was training them and I was teaching them. I know this from training professionals. My professional training, on dietary coaching, the biggest component of it is cognitive behavioral change or, how to coach behavior in your client, cuz that’s the missing piece we’re not trained on. So that this nutritionist who said that it will just come, bless her heart, but she does not understand how behavior are created in human.

Let me tell you how it’s created here right now. Okay. This is from the World of Neuroscience. This is from the world of cognitive behavioral therapy. You can Google that, C B T, cognitive behavioral therapy, where we understand, based on our research on how the brain and human behavior work that our thoughts create the emotion we feel in our body and the emotion we experience in our body ignite a reaction, a behavior into the world.

So the way you think about vegetables creates the emotion you have towards vegetable, resistance in your case, and then you act towards vegetable from a place of feeling resistant. So you’re probably having some rebellious behavior. No, I know I should, but I can’t, but I don’t want to. What am I gonna do? I’m lost. I’m confused, right? You’re having all those thoughts because you’re resistant, because you’re experiencing resistance because of the way you think about eating vegetables.

We teach that process, cognitive behavioral coaching in on your life at a very easy to understand an application process and we teach it at a more complex level for a professional so they understand the behind the scene, but I want you to think about it in this easy process: pause, investigate, decide.

Pause is what you’re doing right now. By asking me the question, how can I go about eating more vegetable, you’ve paused. You’re like, something’s not working. I’m resisting this vegetable thing, I don’t wanna force myself, that just doesn’t feel right to me, so let me pause and figure out the answer to that. Right. You’re, you want to stop just trying to force yourself, so you’re asking question, you’re becoming your own leader through your transformation, in this case, in the relationship to vegetable. By the way, we just released a podcast 3 54 on resistance, that could be really helpful for.

So then investigate, why. Why are you feeling resistant towards eating vegetables? Awareness is what creates change. Awareness, becoming aware of why you are creating the feeling of resisting vegetable is what will create change, not forcing yourself. But you know that right? You told me that like, but anybody listening right now, they think that white knuckling yourself is the path to creating any habit? No, it’s never gonna work. It will work until it doesn’t. What I’m explaining to you right now, the path of investigating, pausing, and investigating, why am I being the way I am right now? Why am I not moving my body? Why am I not drinking water? Why am I not eating vegetable? Understand how currently you are creating this experience you have with vegetables. Understand the now and then once you understand why, and you had a great clue in your question, you said something about your childhood. There’s an experience in your childhood with vegetable that you are continuing to carry with you right now. So there’s a way of thinking about vegetable, either a traumatic experience, something your parent taught you, because for whatever reason, you are continuing to think in alignment to the same way you were when you were a child.

And that’s why you are not eating the vegetable, and that’s why you’re resisting eating quote, nutrient dense food because there’s a conflict in your brain on the way you’re thinking about vegetables. So figure that out, literally what we call, do a thought download of what you’re currently thinking about vegetable, and then look at your thought. And I want you to decide, in order for me to eat vegetable, I’m gonna have to change some of these way of believing and thinking about vegetable. Do I want to do this? Ask yourself consent, like this thought, this thought, this thought will have to change. Do I want to do this? As a 57 year old woman, am I willing to change the way that I think about eating and vegetable? If the answer is yes, move forward to creating a new way of thinking about vegetable and do that in a partnership with yourself, not by white-knuckling yourself, but by being very compassionate and safe with yourself.

So I thought could be it’s possible for me in the future to enjoy. And then one of the action you can take is go buy or download from the internet, a cooking book that you feel attracted to that talks about vegetables, that gives you recipes and way of giving an interpretation to vegetable that sound appealing to you. That’s one of the principle of intuitive eating is satisfaction, right? So based on what makes you feel satisfied, how can you engage with vegetable? For a lot of people who are new to the world of vegetable, it’s adding things they like to the vegetable, right? Could be sauces, it could be cheeses, it could be frying the vegetables, right? Enter prep, cook the vegetable in a way that will sound appealing to you and make it fun for you. And think thought that will align you to create those action in your life.

That process, pause, investigate, the sign, is the same for any habit you want to create in your life. The most difficult part is the pause and investigate. We’re just not used to that. As a society, we wanna jump to the result right away. We’re not comfortable being with ourself as we are and going into our brain and understanding what is creating the current circumstance that we want to change right now. But that’s the secret, quote unquote secret, to changing any habit.

I hoped I helped you with that. I have given you a lot of information here. If you want to come and join us, you’re saying you’re not in our program and you had the word yet, please come and join us. There’s two ways for you to work with us in on diet your life. You can do the self-study experience or you can hire one of my coaches in my team, the one that I trained in a professional training program to help you apply the Undiet Your Life process and create a version of yourself who will eat vegetable.

With that, my sister, I love you and I’ll see you on the next podcast.

read more
355-Doing The Damn Thing… Launching a Women Coaching Certification

355-Doing The Damn Thing… Launching a Women Coaching Certification

women coaching certification

 

 ITUNES PODCAST

GOOGLE PODCAST

SPOTIFY

I’m doing the damn thing… launching a women coaching certification.

Launching a women coaching certification

In this episode of the podcast I’m taking you behind the scene… curious? You’ve got to listen.

What you’ll learn listening to this episode:

  • Why I refused to create a certification for years
  • The “behind the scene” work that needed to be done first
  • How I build the curriculum
  • My dreams for this program…

Mentioned in the show: 

Non-Diet Coaching Certification

Health Habits Checklist

Rebellious Eating Solution Webinar

Quiz: Is It You or Your Diet?

Undiet Your Life Coaching Program

Episode Transcript:

Going Beyond The Food Show Ep355: Doing the Damn Thing… Launching a Women Coaching Certification

===

This is episode 355 of the Beyond the Food Show

and today I’m doing the damn thing. I’m launching a women coaching certification and I’m taking you behind the scene on how I coach myself to do the damn thing. Ready? Stay tuned.

Hello my sisters and welcome back to the podcast. If you’ve listened to podcast 354, I kind of hinted at this podcast today. On 354, I talked to you about how I overcame a lot lots of resistance in order to put a big project forward in my business, which I’m sure you guys have a lots of things you’re resisting also in your life. And today I’m revealing what is the damn thing that I was resisting so much and how I overcame that resistance in what it’s going to look like. I’m gonna give it to you right now. It’s the Non Diet Coaching Certification, e Women coaching certification created to liberate women. So let’s talk about this.

I hope you’re doing well. I am doing very well. Today, I amrecording this episode on April the 17th, and you’re going to hear it days later. And I chose to record this episode the day after the launch of the non diet coaching certification for one reason: is I wanted to share the behind the scene story in the energy, the emotion, the thoughts that I was feeling after launching this program into the world. I wanted to be able to take you through the full behind the scene of this launch for me and for our business, and for our student as well, from a place of having lived it.

And this is what we’re gonna do today together. I’m gonna take you through the behind the scene of the creation and the launch of the non diet certification and just for you know, it’s a year and a half of work, and not in the sense of work that you probably thinking about. A whole different kind of work that had to happen in order for me to be able to share, this program with you. So it’s really gonna be a behind the scene. If you wanna know about the technical details of the non diet coaching certification, we’re gonna talk about it a little bit, about halfway through this podcast, but I would highly recommend that you go and visit the page, stephanie do.com/non coaching certification in order to get like the nitty gritty detail about the certification. We have an extensive frequently asked question as well. I gathered all the questions from the, consultation that I did over the year for this program, and I put it all out there.

Today is gonna be a lot about the mental, spiritual, and emotional work that needed to happen in me in order to be able to put this program out there. And be quite honest with you, I refuse to create a certification for years. And I was quite actually vocal about that on the podcast here in my group program, in conversation with my colleague, I was quite adamant that I would never create a certification for my methodology. Crazy. And here we are today and I’ve just launched a certification and I help you understand why I did that and how I did that. For those who’ve been listening to the podcast for years, you probably remember like episode 2, 3, 4 of this podcast, which is like three years ago where I was talking and teaching you about imposter syndrome and how to overcomeimposter syndrome. And,and the reason why I talk about imposter on so many episodes is because it’s the number one reason that you have given me as to why you’re not pursuing transitioning your business to the non-AI approach, or starting a business, helping other women in the non-AI approach. By like far, like 75% of the people who stay on the sideline is because of imposter syndrome. And I have been leading in a position of leadership since my early thirties, since the age of 28 years old in the retail industry and then in the health and coaching industry for the last 10 years. And it’s not just in our industry, that imposter syndrome is present. It was all over my prior career in the retail industry. I, I would want, I wanted, I was trying to promote women in my businesses and I couldn’t because women would, they felt that they weren’t quote unquote good enough to be promoted in the corporate world or to start a business in the coaching world. And I thought on that for years. And I always came back to, it’s not the piece of paper on the wall behind you that’s gonna create the confidence in you to get a promotion or to start a business.

And I got myself into this place of being mad at the system, di culture, patriarchy, the corporate culture, and the toxic business culture that taught my peers other women, that they needed that piece of paper. And then the piece of paper, the degree the certification would deliver. Confidence. I didn’t have a degree in business. I have a degree in nutrition, but I don’t, still don’t have a degree in entrepreneurship and in business and here I am teaching you about business and entrepreneurship. I know at the D n A level, you don’t need that piece of paper. And I got myself into that space where, I said, and I remember saying these words, I’ll never do a certification because I’m just co-opting that system of oppression that tell women they’re not good enough.

And about a year ago I was teaching a class inside of the mentorship program, which is, by the way, if you’re new to the podcast, the non diet mentorship program is where I have tested over the last three years how to teach the going to be on the food methodology to professional over seven cohorts, that is now becoming the non diet coaching certification. So I was teaching a class about a year and a half ago, we’ll say, on marketing, and we were talking about messaging and copywriting and I was telling my student, be sure when you write your copy, when you write social media posts, you don’t use industry jargon and your. You need to make sure that you are being careful, carefully aware, deeply aware of who you’re talking to. These people, your future client haven’t done the work yet. They’re still stuck in diet culture. They’re still under the oppression of the weight loss industry in diet culture. So if you’re using the language from somebody who’s already gone to intuitive eating and made peace with their body, they, when they’re still stuck in dark culture, they won’t connect with you. And as I was saying these word, a wave of heat just came pouring down on me, literally in my body sensation, and in that fraction of a second, I realize that’s what I was doing when I was marketing my professional training program. I was upholding a message, a marketing message that you don’t need a certification to be confident to people, some of you listening who had not yet understood how we created confidence, you and perhaps your colleague are still stuck in thinking that the piece of paper on the wall is what’s gonna make you a great coach, a great practitioner. It’s gonna make you confident to launch your business.

And I realized that I was doing a disservice. I was not helping diet culture dismantling. I wasn’t helping getting more professional train in an anti-D diet culture approach by stubbornly and rebellious, refusing to call my program a certification. To give a piece of paper a certification, literally eight and a half by 11 piece of paper, I was so rebellious and I was so like stubborn, I was refusing to create that and create a logo for people to put on their website, and I needed to change that. And so in that moment, I will still remember that day I was teaching that class on copywriting and messaging, ending the class and like had to have a one-to-one conversation from me to me. So I grabbed my journal and I did a bunch of writing and self-awareness, thought download we call it in the cognitive behavioral coaching model, and realized that I was stuck in rebellious thinking. And I digged, and I digged, and I digged, and I work with my coach on this and the real reason why I was refusing to do a certification, it was because I was afraid. Yeah, I was hiding my fear with this rebellious line of thinking. And here we go again. I coach people on this over and over again. When we talk about rebellious eating, what we’re really talking about when we’re help people discovering why their rebell eat is because they’re afraid of claiming their authority over foods, right, or over their body. They’re afraid of being in charge of their own life. And for me, in the case of being stuck in rebellious thinking, the fear that I was not allowing myself to see, because the first thing you need to do is being aware of your thought and being aware of why you’re afraid was two things. It was cancel culture in our own industry, in the social activism circle, we have a big history of cancel culture in between each other, right? One of the reasons why our work is slowly climbing up the level of public awareness is because we sometimes self destr between each other, right? And so I was afraid of being canceled because who am I to create a certification for non coaching in my industry? And then two, was really another layer of me being worthy. And if you’ve been listening to this podcast, but primarily my other podcast going beyond the food over the last five years, I’ve done a lot of public sharing about one of the main belief that we share as women who have been oppressed by DI cultures that were not enough, and I’ve done a lot of work on that. Like I’m now enough with food, I’m enough with my body image, I’m enough with my health and with my exercise, but with my business, I needed to peel the next layer of enoughness, which is you are enough to create a certification. You are enough to stand on your soapbox and say, the going to be on the food method is the method to help women leaving diet culture behind, not only from a place of lived experience for you, Stephanie as a person, but for the thousand clients you work with or for the hundreds of professional you work with. It works for everyone. It’s time now for you to stand in your soap box to the world and be proud of what you’ve created and share that with authority in the world. And it was just another layer of my onion that needed to be peeled, and that’s why I refuse to do a certification.

So here’s my message to you. Take this for a learning. As you are looking back in your own life, where are you stuck in rebellious thinking? Where are you stuck in being adamant that your way is the right way and what is hiding behind dance.

So I worked over the last year and a half in peeling that layer of that onion and really sticking down in my thoughts and my belief and building up my belief about myself professionally in this industry and the belief that I have in the methodology they’re going to be on the food method beings so amazing and brilliant and powerful for professionals and for client, and being able to stand on my soapbox and share that with the world.

So about four months ago, I came to a place where I fully believed that creating that certification was the right thing to do then we started, Here’s the beautiful thing about the certification is it’s not from the ground up. As I mentioned earlier, I’ve been practicing teaching this over the last three years. Over what, three and a half years to be exact, seven different cohort I’ve passed through the non diet mentorship program. So the curriculum for the certification was like, it’s the same thing. It’s the same thing as the non diet mentorship program, and it’s been iterated, tested, iterated tested, iterated, tested, to find just the right approach of teaching, the right way of delivering this content, so it was super easy. So what really I had to work on in the last four months was really more the branding, the marketing, how it’s gonna show, how it’s going to pull people into that certification from a visual, from a messaging standpoint. And that’s what I worked on for the last four months. And that’s what you see now into the world since yesterday. It’s not e, well, it’s been 24 hours now into the world, and I wanted really a neutral, visual approach through the non diet certification. That’s why you’ll see a lot of black and white and really simple minimalists because the curriculum of the certification stand on its own. It doesn’t need to be sold with a lot of fancy graphic and fancy coloring. What makes this program, it’s the people in it, people coming together wanting to do their own personal work and learning how to help other women. This is a very narrow niche program for people identified as women who help other people self-identified as women, leaving diet culture behind in the most ethical, safe, in conscientious way.

So for those of you who have been looking at the mentorship program, it’s the same thing. The only difference is at the end you will have the option of sitting for exam to be certified. So you’ll have to, there’ll be a classic type exam to be done online and there will be evaluation of your coaching that will have to be done by us. And then you will receive a piece of paper, the thing that I was so rebelling against. You will get it. You will get piece of paper certifying that you’ve studied, they’re going to be on the food method and you are now a non-AI coach.

The beauty of the certification is that we will test you on four different area of coaching. You will become a cognitive behavioral coach. We’re gonna spend two months, which is more than a third of the time we’re studying together really deep diving in coaching. We’re not gonna even talk about food just like we’re doing right now with our cohort. We’re not talking about about food, we’re not talking about body image, we’re talking about the mind, we’re talking about the thoughts, the belief, nervous system regulation, emotional intelligence, because that’s where coaching happens. And as I was building this curriculum and the thing that, it was always the number one issue with my student is not knowing how to coach, yet they had a piece of paper on their wall. They were a health coach. They were a, body image coach from another certification somewhere, but they had no idea how to coach people. And for those who thought they knew how to coach, they quickly realized that they were coaching the wrong thing. They were coaching the behavior directly, but not the thought, the emotion behind the behavior. That’s why we’re teaching the cognitive behavioral model of coaching, emotional intelligence, trauma informed program. We have one of our past graduate, Vanessa Preston, who graduated from our program two years ago. She is now a, part of our teaching group. She has two class within our curriculum that is all about trauma and nervous system regulation.

Funny story about Vanessa, vanessa came to me two and a half years ago to studied in the non mentorship program and she’s been looking at my program for over a year, but she felt she wasn’t quote unquote good enough as a therapist. Vanessa is a complex trauma specialized therapist. She’s been doing therapy with folks that have complex trauma background for over 15 years, and she was looking at the mentorship program and she felt not good enough. And she went in to do her nutrition degree in a university in order to feel good enough to come and study with us. And then for the first three months I think of our mentorship, she was finishing her degree in nutrition while studying with me, and then she realized that everything, all that she had been taught about nutrition was actually useless because it was all about calories and macros and dieting. All of that studying, all that investment of time and resources, you remember this girl had a full-time job and she was at the university at night, she invested all these resources and didn’t use a thing. She sent me an email three months ago and she said, still to this day, I’m not using a thing that I learned in two years in university, because it’s pure DI culture.

So anyway, Vanessa now teaches our segments of nervous system regulation and trauma inform within the context of coaching. So we learn all the depth of coaching and you’re practicing on yourself and we learn a self-coaching approach, and then we coach you on how you coach yourself, cuz that’s the only way for you to become a great coach, is by mastering your own thoughts and your own emotion. And a lot of students do that on their own relationship to their body and to food, kind of finalize their own journey by being coached by someone else, us, the leader of the program. And then once we’ve mastered coaching, or at least the approach to coaching, we go in and we apply it to food, and then we apply it to health and to body image. And that’s what makes up, the non diet coaching certification. And at the end, you get to sit for an exam on each one of those elements so you can receive your certification and you can receive your titles as well.

So if you do the full certification, you will receive titles of non diet eating coach, non diet body image coach, and non diet life coach. Because one thing you will learn very quickly in the going beyond the food methodology, and it was never about food or about the body, it was about life. And that’s something that I was afraid to be honest with you. I was afraid to call my program a life coaching program, and I have an episode that’s gonna be coming up in a couple weeks that’s called, Beyond the Food Coaching versus Life Coaching. Because there’s a lot of stigma around life coaching, but over the years and the people that have gone through the mentorship program, I’ve seen people leave the nutrition world and call themself life coach over and over and over again.

Because when you start coaching at that level, the level of the thoughts and the belief and the level of going beyond the food, you quickly I real realized what I have realized seven years ago, that the problem is not the food. The problem is how the person was raised and, and their relationship and their thoughts about themselves.

And that’s my story. I thought I was the only one who was struggling with food because of self-acceptance and family trauma and all of that. And then I, no, no, it’s all my clients. And then I started teaching professional and everybody was telling me the same thing. I end up coaching on relationship and I end up coaching on career, and I end up coaching on emotions and that many of you who are not yet gone through my training will tell me, I get stuck in my coaching, I don’t know what to tell my client. They bring up all these big emotions to the session and, and they start crying and they start talking about their partner and their kids, and I don’t know how to coach them on that. But we need to know how to coach on that because that’s what’s standing behind the disturb relationship to food and the compulsive obsessive eating behavior in the self-hatred and the body dissatisfaction. The problem is not our body or the layer of fat on our body. It’s how we think about our body, because of how we were taught to think about our body because of all the septal message we were told everywhere. And it’s the same thing with food.

So really you become a life coach. Because you are learning our cognitive behavioral coaching methodology, you are able to coach on anything. The way we teach it to you, you can approach any problem. It’s a structure, it’s a framework. No matter what the circumstance that your client present, you just apply the methodology to it and you’re able to coach on anything. And that’s been so transformative for all the professionals that have gone through our program is being able to coach on anything. And recently, over the last year, have been taking in more and more a life coach, right? People who have graduated as a life coach from another program, and then they’re struggling with helping their client, their self-identified women client with confidence without using weight loss as a tool to create confidence. And they’re coming to us to learn how to do that. And the result they’re being getting with their client because they now can use a life coaching tool in a safe, ethical way to help people build self-esteem and better relationship and confidence without having to resort to shrinking their body. So all around, this is my dream for the non diet coaching certification. It disrupts the coaching industry. It disrupts the health coaching industry, which is so entrenched in diet culture and wellness culture, right now. I wanna disrupt the life coaching industry because it’s entrenched in weight loss. I can’t find a life coaching certification out there that is not entrenched in fat phobia, in DI culture, and weight loss. I wanna disrupt that industry as well. And I wanna give the tool to all of you out there who are doing work on intuitive eating and body image. I want to give you the tools that you need to make this work so much easier for your client and for you as a coach, so much easier when you know how to coach.

So I really, I want this program, that’s my dream, that it disrupt the coaching industry cuz the coaching industry was created by men for men. If you go through the ophthalmology and the history of the coaching industry, it was in the context of the business world. It was the Tony Robbins of this world that created a model of coaching that is made by men for men. It was never made for women. It was never comprehensive of how a woman is socialized and how a woman is conditioned. And even for the small segment of the coaching industry that is created by women, it’s unfortunately women that have the same conditioning as you and I from DI culture, from patriarchy in the have not yet done their work on internalized fat phobia. So when they’re teaching coaching, when they’re coaching other women, they’re coaching from an unaware of where, they’re carrying their own fear of fatness.

So I want this program, the non coaching certification to solve that, to give a place for women who understand that and want to do this work, not only learn the intellectual notion, but actually want and recognize that you need to embody this work for yourself first to be able to safely coach other women and how to build a business that is respectful of these values, that is ethical in its structure. Because that’s the other problem that I found when I was trying to, when a question that I know some of you will have, who are you, who is this program certified with, which organization is it associated with? It is not associated with any places. I can’t because how they’re coaching, life coaching or how they’re teaching life coaching, or how their program is associated with weight loss or how their association is upholding non-ethical business practices.

So, we belong nowhere yet. That’s gonna be my next project over the next two to three years is either fine an ethical coaching association that we can affiliate with or create my own, because right now we’re in an island on our own. So, it is a certification that at this point fits nowhere. But you know, for me it’s not a big deal because that’s what the non-AI approach, that’s what intuitive eating is, that’s what body neutrality is, counterculture.

So I know we’re just pioneer. We are disrupting, we’re leading a revolution. We’re years lights ahead of the industry, and I know our island’s gonna become bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger, and I know that at some point the shift will happen and there will be many other coaching organization that will fit our paradigm, that will fit our value system that we will be able to associate with and grow with and really impact at the next level.

So, I’m really excited for you to discover this program. To join us ,the next cohort, it’ll begin in July the third. The same structure as an indictment mentorship program was, it’s from July to December, it’s a six month live coaching container, small group coaching. We don’t take in a lot of students we’re doing the work, not just lecturing you, we’re actually coaching you on doing your personal work, so it has to remain small group coaching. And we’re starting July the third and ending December the 14th, and it’s every six months, we have a new cohort. So go and visit the sales page, Stephanie doze.com/non diet coaching certification. And I’m looking forward to sharing this container, this transformational container with many of you that are listening here in July.

If you have any question, there’s things that are not clear either on this podcast or on the page of the program, please send us an [email protected] and then we will take notes of where our gaps in communications are or where we need to give more information. You will really be helpful for us to hear from so we can really streamline our messaging and our communication. So feel free to send us an email info stephanie.com and I’ll see you on the next podcast.

 

 

Doing the Damn Thing… Launching a Women Coaching Certification

This is episode 355 of the Beyond the Food Show.

and today I’m doing the damn thing. I’m launching a women coaching certification and I’m taking you behind the scene on how I coach myself to do the damn thing. Ready? Stay tuned.

Hello my sisters and welcome back to the podcast. If you’ve listened to podcast 354, I kind of hinted at this podcast today. On 354, I talked to you about how I overcame a lot lots of resistance in order to put a big project forward in my business, which I’m sure you guys have a lots of things you’re resisting also in your life. And today I’m revealing what is the damn thing that I was resisting so much and how I overcame that resistance in what it’s going to look like. I’m gonna give it to you right now. It’s the Non Diet Coaching Certification, e Women coaching certification created to liberate women. So let’s talk about this.

I hope you’re doing well. I am doing very well. Today, I amrecording this episode on April the 17th, and you’re going to hear it days later. And I chose to record this episode the day after the launch of the non diet coaching certification for one reason: is I wanted to share the behind the scene story in the energy, the emotion, the thoughts that I was feeling after launching this program into the world. I wanted to be able to take you through the full behind the scene of this launch for me and for our business, and for our student as well, from a place of having lived it.

And this is what we’re gonna do today together. I’m gonna take you through the behind the scene of the creation and the launch of the non diet certification and just for you know, it’s a year and a half of work, and not in the sense of work that you probably thinking about. A whole different kind of work that had to happen in order for me to be able to share, this program with you. So it’s really gonna be a behind the scene. If you wanna know about the technical details of the non diet coaching certification, we’re gonna talk about it a little bit, about halfway through this podcast, but I would highly recommend that you go and visit the page, stephanie do.com/non coaching certification in order to get like the nitty gritty detail about the certification. We have an extensive frequently asked question as well. I gathered all the questions from the, consultation that I did over the year for this program, and I put it all out there.

Today is gonna be a lot about the mental, spiritual, and emotional work that needed to happen in me in order to be able to put this program out there. And be quite honest with you, I refuse to create a certification for years. And I was quite actually vocal about that on the podcast here in my group program, in conversation with my colleague, I was quite adamant that I would never create a certification for my methodology. Crazy. And here we are today and I’ve just launched a certification and I help you understand why I did that and how I did that. For those who’ve been listening to the podcast for years, you probably remember like episode 2, 3, 4 of this podcast, which is like three years ago where I was talking and teaching you about imposter syndrome and how to overcomeimposter syndrome. And,and the reason why I talk about imposter on so many episodes is because it’s the number one reason that you have given me as to why you’re not pursuing transitioning your business to the non-AI approach, or starting a business, helping other women in the non-AI approach. By like far, like 75% of the people who stay on the sideline is because of imposter syndrome. And I have been leading in a position of leadership since my early thirties, since the age of 28 years old in the retail industry and then in the health and coaching industry for the last 10 years. And it’s not just in our industry, that imposter syndrome is present. It was all over my prior career in the retail industry. I, I would want, I wanted, I was trying to promote women in my businesses and I couldn’t because women would, they felt that they weren’t quote unquote good enough to be promoted in the corporate world or to start a business in the coaching world. And I thought on that for years. And I always came back to, it’s not the piece of paper on the wall behind you that’s gonna create the confidence in you to get a promotion or to start a business.

And I got myself into this place of being mad at the system, di culture, patriarchy, the corporate culture, and the toxic business culture that taught my peers other women, that they needed that piece of paper. And then the piece of paper, the degree the certification would deliver. Confidence. I didn’t have a degree in business. I have a degree in nutrition, but I don’t, still don’t have a degree in entrepreneurship and in business and here I am teaching you about business and entrepreneurship. I know at the D n A level, you don’t need that piece of paper. And I got myself into that space where, I said, and I remember saying these words, I’ll never do a certification because I’m just co-opting that system of oppression that tell women they’re not good enough.

And about a year ago I was teaching a class inside of the mentorship program, which is, by the way, if you’re new to the podcast, the non diet mentorship program is where I have tested over the last three years how to teach the going to be on the food methodology to professional over seven cohorts, that is now becoming the non diet coaching certification. So I was teaching a class about a year and a half ago, we’ll say, on marketing, and we were talking about messaging and copywriting and I was telling my student, be sure when you write your copy, when you write social media posts, you don’t use industry jargon and your. You need to make sure that you are being careful, carefully aware, deeply aware of who you’re talking to. These people, your future client haven’t done the work yet. They’re still stuck in diet culture. They’re still under the oppression of the weight loss industry in diet culture. So if you’re using the language from somebody who’s already gone to intuitive eating and made peace with their body, they, when they’re still stuck in dark culture, they won’t connect with you. And as I was saying these word, a wave of heat just came pouring down on me, literally in my body sensation, and in that fraction of a second, I realize that’s what I was doing when I was marketing my professional training program. I was upholding a message, a marketing message that you don’t need a certification to be confident to people, some of you listening who had not yet understood how we created confidence, you and perhaps your colleague are still stuck in thinking that the piece of paper on the wall is what’s gonna make you a great coach, a great practitioner. It’s gonna make you confident to launch your business.

And I realized that I was doing a disservice. I was not helping diet culture dismantling. I wasn’t helping getting more professional train in an anti-D diet culture approach by stubbornly and rebellious, refusing to call my program a certification. To give a piece of paper a certification, literally eight and a half by 11 piece of paper, I was so rebellious and I was so like stubborn, I was refusing to create that and create a logo for people to put on their website, and I needed to change that. And so in that moment, I will still remember that day I was teaching that class on copywriting and messaging, ending the class and like had to have a one-to-one conversation from me to me. So I grabbed my journal and I did a bunch of writing and self-awareness, thought download we call it in the cognitive behavioral coaching model, and realized that I was stuck in rebellious thinking. And I digged, and I digged, and I digged, and I work with my coach on this and the real reason why I was refusing to do a certification, it was because I was afraid. Yeah, I was hiding my fear with this rebellious line of thinking. And here we go again. I coach people on this over and over again. When we talk about rebellious eating, what we’re really talking about when we’re help people discovering why their rebell eat is because they’re afraid of claiming their authority over foods, right, or over their body. They’re afraid of being in charge of their own life. And for me, in the case of being stuck in rebellious thinking, the fear that I was not allowing myself to see, because the first thing you need to do is being aware of your thought and being aware of why you’re afraid was two things. It was cancel culture in our own industry, in the social activism circle, we have a big history of cancel culture in between each other, right? One of the reasons why our work is slowly climbing up the level of public awareness is because we sometimes self destr between each other, right? And so I was afraid of being canceled because who am I to create a certification for non coaching in my industry? And then two, was really another layer of me being worthy. And if you’ve been listening to this podcast, but primarily my other podcast going beyond the food over the last five years, I’ve done a lot of public sharing about one of the main belief that we share as women who have been oppressed by DI cultures that were not enough, and I’ve done a lot of work on that. Like I’m now enough with food, I’m enough with my body image, I’m enough with my health and with my exercise, but with my business, I needed to peel the next layer of enoughness, which is you are enough to create a certification. You are enough to stand on your soapbox and say, the going to be on the food method is the method to help women leaving diet culture behind, not only from a place of lived experience for you, Stephanie as a person, but for the thousand clients you work with or for the hundreds of professional you work with. It works for everyone. It’s time now for you to stand in your soap box to the world and be proud of what you’ve created and share that with authority in the world. And it was just another layer of my onion that needed to be peeled, and that’s why I refuse to do a certification.

So here’s my message to you. Take this for a learning. As you are looking back in your own life, where are you stuck in rebellious thinking? Where are you stuck in being adamant that your way is the right way and what is hiding behind dance.

So I worked over the last year and a half in peeling that layer of that onion and really sticking down in my thoughts and my belief and building up my belief about myself professionally in this industry and the belief that I have in the methodology they’re going to be on the food method beings so amazing and brilliant and powerful for professionals and for client, and being able to stand on my soapbox and share that with the world.

So about four months ago, I came to a place where I fully believed that creating that certification was the right thing to do then we started, Here’s the beautiful thing about the certification is it’s not from the ground up. As I mentioned earlier, I’ve been practicing teaching this over the last three years. Over what, three and a half years to be exact, seven different cohort I’ve passed through the non diet mentorship program. So the curriculum for the certification was like, it’s the same thing. It’s the same thing as the non diet mentorship program, and it’s been iterated, tested, iterated tested, iterated, tested, to find just the right approach of teaching, the right way of delivering this content, so it was super easy. So what really I had to work on in the last four months was really more the branding, the marketing, how it’s gonna show, how it’s going to pull people into that certification from a visual, from a messaging standpoint. And that’s what I worked on for the last four months. And that’s what you see now into the world since yesterday. It’s not e, well, it’s been 24 hours now into the world, and I wanted really a neutral, visual approach through the non diet certification. That’s why you’ll see a lot of black and white and really simple minimalists because the curriculum of the certification stand on its own. It doesn’t need to be sold with a lot of fancy graphic and fancy coloring. What makes this program, it’s the people in it, people coming together wanting to do their own personal work and learning how to help other women. This is a very narrow niche program for people identified as women who help other people self-identified as women, leaving diet culture behind in the most ethical, safe, in conscientious way.

So for those of you who have been looking at the mentorship program, it’s the same thing. The only difference is at the end you will have the option of sitting for exam to be certified. So you’ll have to, there’ll be a classic type exam to be done online and there will be evaluation of your coaching that will have to be done by us. And then you will receive a piece of paper, the thing that I was so rebelling against. You will get it. You will get piece of paper certifying that you’ve studied, they’re going to be on the food method and you are now a non-AI coach.

The beauty of the certification is that we will test you on four different area of coaching. You will become a cognitive behavioral coach. We’re gonna spend two months, which is more than a third of the time we’re studying together really deep diving in coaching. We’re not gonna even talk about food just like we’re doing right now with our cohort. We’re not talking about about food, we’re not talking about body image, we’re talking about the mind, we’re talking about the thoughts, the belief, nervous system regulation, emotional intelligence, because that’s where coaching happens. And as I was building this curriculum and the thing that, it was always the number one issue with my student is not knowing how to coach, yet they had a piece of paper on their wall. They were a health coach. They were a, body image coach from another certification somewhere, but they had no idea how to coach people. And for those who thought they knew how to coach, they quickly realized that they were coaching the wrong thing. They were coaching the behavior directly, but not the thought, the emotion behind the behavior. That’s why we’re teaching the cognitive behavioral model of coaching, emotional intelligence, trauma informed program. We have one of our past graduate, Vanessa Preston, who graduated from our program two years ago. She is now a, part of our teaching group. She has two class within our curriculum that is all about trauma and nervous system regulation.

Funny story about Vanessa, vanessa came to me two and a half years ago to studied in the non mentorship program and she’s been looking at my program for over a year, but she felt she wasn’t quote unquote good enough as a therapist. Vanessa is a complex trauma specialized therapist. She’s been doing therapy with folks that have complex trauma background for over 15 years, and she was looking at the mentorship program and she felt not good enough. And she went in to do her nutrition degree in a university in order to feel good enough to come and study with us. And then for the first three months I think of our mentorship, she was finishing her degree in nutrition while studying with me, and then she realized that everything, all that she had been taught about nutrition was actually useless because it was all about calories and macros and dieting. All of that studying, all that investment of time and resources, you remember this girl had a full-time job and she was at the university at night, she invested all these resources and didn’t use a thing. She sent me an email three months ago and she said, still to this day, I’m not using a thing that I learned in two years in university, because it’s pure DI culture.

So anyway, Vanessa now teaches our segments of nervous system regulation and trauma inform within the context of coaching. So we learn all the depth of coaching and you’re practicing on yourself and we learn a self-coaching approach, and then we coach you on how you coach yourself, cuz that’s the only way for you to become a great coach, is by mastering your own thoughts and your own emotion. And a lot of students do that on their own relationship to their body and to food, kind of finalize their own journey by being coached by someone else, us, the leader of the program. And then once we’ve mastered coaching, or at least the approach to coaching, we go in and we apply it to food, and then we apply it to health and to body image. And that’s what makes up, the non diet coaching certification. And at the end, you get to sit for an exam on each one of those elements so you can receive your certification and you can receive your titles as well.

So if you do the full certification, you will receive titles of non diet eating coach, non diet body image coach, and non diet life coach. Because one thing you will learn very quickly in the going beyond the food methodology, and it was never about food or about the body, it was about life. And that’s something that I was afraid to be honest with you. I was afraid to call my program a life coaching program, and I have an episode that’s gonna be coming up in a couple weeks that’s called, Beyond the Food Coaching versus Life Coaching. Because there’s a lot of stigma around life coaching, but over the years and the people that have gone through the mentorship program, I’ve seen people leave the nutrition world and call themself life coach over and over and over again.

Because when you start coaching at that level, the level of the thoughts and the belief and the level of going beyond the food, you quickly I real realized what I have realized seven years ago, that the problem is not the food. The problem is how the person was raised and, and their relationship and their thoughts about themselves.

And that’s my story. I thought I was the only one who was struggling with food because of self-acceptance and family trauma and all of that. And then I, no, no, it’s all my clients. And then I started teaching professional and everybody was telling me the same thing. I end up coaching on relationship and I end up coaching on career, and I end up coaching on emotions and that many of you who are not yet gone through my training will tell me, I get stuck in my coaching, I don’t know what to tell my client. They bring up all these big emotions to the session and, and they start crying and they start talking about their partner and their kids, and I don’t know how to coach them on that. But we need to know how to coach on that because that’s what’s standing behind the disturb relationship to food and the compulsive obsessive eating behavior in the self-hatred and the body dissatisfaction. The problem is not our body or the layer of fat on our body. It’s how we think about our body, because of how we were taught to think about our body because of all the septal message we were told everywhere. And it’s the same thing with food.

So really you become a life coach. Because you are learning our cognitive behavioral coaching methodology, you are able to coach on anything. The way we teach it to you, you can approach any problem. It’s a structure, it’s a framework. No matter what the circumstance that your client present, you just apply the methodology to it and you’re able to coach on anything. And that’s been so transformative for all the professionals that have gone through our program is being able to coach on anything. And recently, over the last year, have been taking in more and more a life coach, right? People who have graduated as a life coach from another program, and then they’re struggling with helping their client, their self-identified women client with confidence without using weight loss as a tool to create confidence. And they’re coming to us to learn how to do that. And the result they’re being getting with their client because they now can use a life coaching tool in a safe, ethical way to help people build self-esteem and better relationship and confidence without having to resort to shrinking their body. So all around, this is my dream for the non diet coaching certification. It disrupts the coaching industry. It disrupts the health coaching industry, which is so entrenched in diet culture and wellness culture, right now. I wanna disrupt the life coaching industry because it’s entrenched in weight loss. I can’t find a life coaching certification out there that is not entrenched in fat phobia, in DI culture, and weight loss. I wanna disrupt that industry as well. And I wanna give the tool to all of you out there who are doing work on intuitive eating and body image. I want to give you the tools that you need to make this work so much easier for your client and for you as a coach, so much easier when you know how to coach.

So I really, I want this program, that’s my dream, that it disrupt the coaching industry cuz the coaching industry was created by men for men. If you go through the ophthalmology and the history of the coaching industry, it was in the context of the business world. It was the Tony Robbins of this world that created a model of coaching that is made by men for men. It was never made for women. It was never comprehensive of how a woman is socialized and how a woman is conditioned. And even for the small segment of the coaching industry that is created by women, it’s unfortunately women that have the same conditioning as you and I from DI culture, from patriarchy in the have not yet done their work on internalized fat phobia. So when they’re teaching coaching, when they’re coaching other women, they’re coaching from an unaware of where, they’re carrying their own fear of fatness.

So I want this program, the non coaching certification to solve that, to give a place for women who understand that and want to do this work, not only learn the intellectual notion, but actually want and recognize that you need to embody this work for yourself first to be able to safely coach other women and how to build a business that is respectful of these values, that is ethical in its structure. Because that’s the other problem that I found when I was trying to, when a question that I know some of you will have, who are you, who is this program certified with, which organization is it associated with? It is not associated with any places. I can’t because how they’re coaching, life coaching or how they’re teaching life coaching, or how their program is associated with weight loss or how their association is upholding non-ethical business practices.

So, we belong nowhere yet. That’s gonna be my next project over the next two to three years is either fine an ethical coaching association that we can affiliate with or create my own, because right now we’re in an island on our own. So, it is a certification that at this point fits nowhere. But you know, for me it’s not a big deal because that’s what the non-AI approach, that’s what intuitive eating is, that’s what body neutrality is, counterculture.

So I know we’re just pioneer. We are disrupting, we’re leading a revolution. We’re years lights ahead of the industry, and I know our island’s gonna become bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger, and I know that at some point the shift will happen and there will be many other coaching organization that will fit our paradigm, that will fit our value system that we will be able to associate with and grow with and really impact at the next level.

So, I’m really excited for you to discover this program. To join us ,the next cohort, it’ll begin in July the third. The same structure as an indictment mentorship program was, it’s from July to December, it’s a six month live coaching container, small group coaching. We don’t take in a lot of students we’re doing the work, not just lecturing you, we’re actually coaching you on doing your personal work, so it has to remain small group coaching. And we’re starting July the third and ending December the 14th, and it’s every six months, we have a new cohort. So go and visit the sales page, Stephanie doze.com/non diet coaching certification. And I’m looking forward to sharing this container, this transformational container with many of you that are listening here in July.

If you have any question, there’s things that are not clear either on this podcast or on the page of the program, please send us an email at [email protected] and then we will take notes of where our gaps in communications are or where we need to give more information. You will really be helpful for us to hear from so we can really streamline our messaging and our communication. So feel free to send us an email info stephanie.com and I’ll see you on the next podcast.

 

 

read more
354-Overcoming Resistance To Do What You Want To Do

354-Overcoming Resistance To Do What You Want To Do

Overcoming resistance

LISTEN ON ITUNES PODCAST

LISTEN ON GOOGLE PODCAST

LISTEN ON SPOTIFY

Overcoming resistance 

Overcoming resistance to do what you want to do is where people get themselves stuck. The number 1 mistake people make is resisting the resistance. 

In this episode, I’m going to walk you through another approach to overcoming the resistance.

Powerful questions to ask yourself to discover your relationship to resistance

  • What if the resistance was to deliver an important message straight from your intuition? 
  • What if partnering with the resistance was the most easeful way for it to release the resistance and move forward with your transformation/goal?
  • What if the process of partnering with your resistance created more trust within yourself?

What you’ll learn listening to this episode on Overcoming resistance:

  • 6 steps to overcoming resistance in your transformation
  • Why fighting resistance is getting your stuck
  • Self-leadership approach to transformation
  • Why creating safety for resistance is the path to overcoming resistance

Mentioned in the show: 

Health Habits Checklist

Quiz: Is It You or Your Diet?

Undiet Your Life Coaching Program

Episode Transcript:

Going Beyond The Food Ep354-Overcoming Resistance To Do What You Want To Do

This is episode 354 of The Beyond the Food Show, and today, if you are struggling with resisting doing what you need to do to get what you want, this episode is for you. I’m gonna show you and teach you a way of approaching resistance that’s gonna allow you to melt the resistance and do the damn thing.

Ready? Stay tuned.

Hey, my sister. Welcome back to the podcast. The title of this episode is Overcoming the Resistance to Do What You Wanna Do. And I was inspired to share this podcast with you because I have figure it out, a way to overcome my own resistance to a particular project that I have in my business, and it’s about to come to life. So I successfully overcame a resistance that was present for close to one and a half year. And a lot of the work that I do inside of Undiet Your Life or Undiet Your Coaching is learning from my own journey, application with client, seeing what work and what doesn’t work, and coming up with a body of work, coming up with the methodology that can then be applied to masses.

So this particular project in my business has been a learning ground for me for one and a half. I am not gonna reveal to you what this project is and it’s about, because that is not the purpose of this episode. But if you’re listening, live to the podcast, know that within the next two weeks, so this podcast is being released on April the 13th, know that by April the 23rd, this project will be public.

With that being said, I’m gonna leave the project behind for the rest of the podcast and I’m gonna talk about resistance. And I wanna explain to you how I experience resistance. I have this desire to do a thing, and I know it’s for the highest good of me and the highest good of my environment and the people around me. So I want you to think about that in the application and into your own life that it is to, let’s imagine you are a woman who has children, has a child, and you know that you want to break the intergenerational trauma of dieting that your mom passed on to you and you don’t wanna pass it on to your children. You know that you need to do your personal work un dieting your life, learning to eat in a peaceful way, making peace with your body, learning to accept yourself, detox your language and your family in your house, how you speak to yourself to really peel di culture from you. You know that’s right for you. You know you’re gonna live a better life, a bigger life and a bolder life if you do that, and you know it’s going to positively impact your children. I want you to think about that it is you that I’m describing right now, or perhaps that’s not you, but I want you to think of this, one of this big project in your life that you know can be similar to that and have positive impact for you and for people around you and you know it’s the right thing to do, but you’re resisting. You’re resisting. You perhaps describe yourself being stuck. You know it’s the right thing to do, but you just can’t bring yourself to do it.

How do we overcome that resistance? And that resistance is present very often for me inside of Undiet Your Life for people prior to joining Ondi Your life. They have something that happened in their life, becoming a mother, being diagnosed with a health condition, wanting to move forward in their career, wanting to liberate themselves so they can move and leave a relationship, like there’s a trigger in their life. In your life, your listener, and you know that joining my program is the right solution for you. It’s gonna enable you to achieve this big thing, but you just can’t bring yourself to press the buy button.

So what can you do? I’m gonna walk you through six steps for you to overcome that kind of resistance and bring yourself to a place of just doing the damn thing. And the number one step or the number one place where you wanna start is thinking about your relationship to yourself. And I really want you to think about you leading yourself. Self leadership. How are you leading yourself in approaching this transformation, this goal you want to create in your life? Are you leading yourself in this journey? And if you are, how are you meeting the resistance that you’re experiencing? Are you fighting that resistance? Are you the type of leader who gets angry at the resistance at the problem? Are you victim of the resistance? Are you saying, why is this happening to me? Like, why, why is only happening to me and all these other people can do it? Like, are you in the victim mindset? Are you leading yourself at this place in your transformation as a victim of? Are you leading yourself with compassion? Are you leading yourself with acceptance of the resistance as one of the many part of the journey towards your goal? Are you creating safety for that part of you who is resisting doing what’s best for you.

And most often we don’t. Most often we don’t because of how we have learned to lead ourselves through our years being oppressed by DI culture. For many of us, our self-leadership or the way we approach our own transformation is through blaming. It’s through pressure, it’s through fighting. It’s through being an oppressor to ourselves, beating ourselves up like we created this and what’s wrong with me? And like, depriving yourself of goodness in your life because you’re resisting, right? It’s a really, it’s a punitive kind of relationship, right? Think about the old school way of parenting, right? You wanted your child to behave in this way and you imply that punishment was needed in order to create the behavior in the child. That’s what DI culture does to us, right? It punish us, it deprives us until we behave in the way that DI culture says we need to behave in order to get the infinite 2% or 5% result that it promises. For many of us, we’ve been in that mindset since our teens, and that’s the only way we know to relate to ourselves. But when it comes the time to overcome the resistance to do what’s right for us in a non-punitive way, we just don’t know how to engage with resistance.

My invitation for you is to lean in to the resistance, is to meet the resistance you’re experiencing with compassion, with understanding. Oh, it makes total sense that I would be resisting accepting my body because I was, for 20 years since my mid-teens, socialize to hate my body. So now I’m having to do the opposite of what I’ve done my whole life. For sure, it’s gonna be hard. I’m gonna be resisting thinking in this new way.

So lead yourself in a compassionate and safe way. Be the leader you want to experience. You wanna experience safe leadership, compassionate leadership. Lead yourself in that way. And step number two, don’t forget that creating safety as a leader is creating safety for the thoughts you’re having about the resistance, but it’s also creating safety in your body. It’s actually embodying the safety, not just telling yourself, oh, it’s totally normal that I’m experiencing that resistance, but also bringing it to real life into your body by allowing the resistance to be there, to make friend with that resistance. Invest time in being with the resistance in this new way. Invest resources, whatever they are, money, time, mental space, emotional space, to make the resistance you’re experiencing safe for you. Once you’ve embodied, when you’ve led yourself to embody safety, both in the way you’re thinking about the resistance you’re experiencing and into your body, then move into asking yourself consent.

I know this is gonna blow your mind, probably. We live in a society right now, which is very focused on consent, right? Externally, organization, asking their client consent or professional, asking their clients consent. Like we live in a consensual phase of our society, but what we often forget, is that we need to ask ourselves consent in our own relationship to ourself. Remember, you are the leader of your own transformation. Do you ask yourself consent? Do I want to do this? Do you give yourself the option of saying no, or do you operate from I have to. I have to, I have to. I’ll go back to this example of mom, the mother of a child who wants to break up the intergenerational trauma of DI culture. Does she walk into the project of accepting herself and undying her life with I have to and I have to do it fast and it has to happen now or she creates safety for what she is right now and the fact she hates her body and she gives herself the time to sit with what she’s realized that Dia culture is a thing, that she hates her body and it’s just a result of socialization, and then she takes time to ask herself, do I wanna do this work? Do I want to invest time to read new information? Do I want to invest time to show up to being coached, like literally to take an hour off my schedule and have somebody help me understand my brain? Am I ready to do this work? Do I want to do this work? And am I willing to make the arrangement in order for me to do this work?

So asking ourselves consent, and whatever the answer is, allow it to be. And allow the next resistance to move in, right? Perhaps you are asking yourself consent, you’re like, yes, I want to do this. But then it comes to scheduling it into your calendar, and now you hit the new level of resistance, right? You’re looking at your calendar, you’re like, no, I don’t have time for this. It’s impossible. I’m gonna have to sleep less. And then your brain goes back to the old way of leading yourself again, right. These layers of resistance are gonna be throughout your entire creation of your goal, the pursuit of your goal, of your transformation. Once you’ve overcome the first, it’s like peeling, I always say that to my students, like appealing an onion. You gonna peel one layer and another layer will appear.

Allow. Allowance is the path. Allowance is the path for you to overcome the resistance, no matter which layer it is. Allow it to be there and need it. Need that new layer of resistance with compassion and neutrality. And then move into that next layer with the same place. Allow it to be needed with compassion and create safety, and then ask yourself, okay, do I want to say no to certain things on my calendar in order for me to make time and invest my time in becoming and learning and practicing being someone who accepts her body? Do I want to do that? Again, consent. With every layer of the onion, we repeat the same thing. We then ask consensual consent, and then we take the action from that place and we make room in our calendar. We stop doing certain things to do the new things are gonna lead us to become this new version of ourselves.

I’m gonna leave you with three powerful question to ask yourself. You’re not familiar with powerful question, these are a question we coach and teach that within all of my program to help you think, help you create a new way of thinking for the goal you’re going to achieve or for becoming the version of yourself who has the goal, the transformation completed, and practicing thinking like this version of yourself who has transformed herself or has achiever goal. So powerful thinking is a training ground for you to train your brain to think differently in order for you to achieve your transformation and overcome the resistance.

So I’m gonna give you these questions. You may wanna write them down. I’m gonna put them also, as I’m thinking about that, I’m gonna put them in the show note, if you want to copy and paste them. I have them in a Google Doc here, so I’m gonna drop them quickly in the show note. You can go to stephanie 3 54, which is the number of the episode.

Okay, number one question is, what if the resistance I’m experiencing wasn’t there to prove me wrong, but instead to deliver an important message straight from my intuition, wisdom or God, depending on your belief system. So if you’re a God person, replaced the word intuition from God, my innate wisdom, my intuition. It’s like, what if the resistance I’m experiencing right now was there to deliver an important message from my intuition?

Question number two. What if partnering with my resistance was actually the most useful way for this resistance to be release, to be melted away. Explore that. Ask your brain that question, like put yourself in front of a blank piece of paper. Just put your pen, write the question at the top of that journal Norlan entry and ask yourself that question until your brain starts thinking of an answer, and then just start writing.

Third question. What if the process of doing that, of accepting, leaning into my resistance created more trust within myself? What if the action of leaning into my resistance actually allowed me to create more trust within myself? What if that was the gateway of trusting yourself? And just as a side note, trust is the baseline of un dieting your life. So if you’re listening to this podcast because that’s your transformational goal on diet your life, know that the entire journey of accepting your body, of changing the way you relate to health and weight and food is going to be to learn to trust yourself in each one of those circumstance. Learn to trust yourself with food, which your health, with your body, with yourself, with your thinking, with your emotion, because that’s what oppressive system, a K a di culture, patriarchy, steals from us is the ability to trust ourselves. So we have to rebuild this ability to trust ourselves. So what if learning to lead yourself with compassion and safety towards the resistance you’re experiencing was just another way for you to learn to trust yourself?

I hope this helps you approach the resistance in your particular life. I know for me, creating this way of approaching resistance specifically for my community, allowed me to bring a project that has been on my mind for, as I mentioned, a year and a half in the most compassionate, powerful way. And I know that because I approach the resistance in that safe, loving way. What I’m creating when I’m about to put out in the world is going to be safe and powerful and how you are going to experience it if you join me in this new project that I’m creating.

As always, if you have any question, you can submit that at [email protected]. I love you, my sister, and I’ll see you on the next podcast.

 

Going Beyond The Food Ep354-Overcoming Resistance To Do What You Want To Do

This is episode 354 of The Beyond the Food Show, and today, if you are struggling with resisting doing what you need to do to get what you want, this episode is for you. I’m gonna show you and teach you a way of approaching resistance that’s gonna allow you to melt the resistance and do the damn thing.

Ready? Stay tuned.

Hey, my sister. Welcome back to the podcast. The title of this episode is Overcoming the Resistance to Do What You Wanna Do. And I was inspired to share this podcast with you because I have figure it out, a way to overcome my own resistance to a particular project that I have in my business, and it’s about to come to life. So I successfully overcame a resistance that was present for close to one and a half year. And a lot of the work that I do inside of Undiet Your Life or Undiet Your Coaching is learning from my own journey, application with client, seeing what work and what doesn’t work, and coming up with a body of work, coming up with the methodology that can then be applied to masses.

So this particular project in my business has been a learning ground for me for one and a half. I am not gonna reveal to you what this project is and it’s about, because that is not the purpose of this episode. But if you’re listening, live to the podcast, know that within the next two weeks, so this podcast is being released on April the 13th, know that by April the 23rd, this project will be public.

With that being said, I’m gonna leave the project behind for the rest of the podcast and I’m gonna talk about resistance. And I wanna explain to you how I experience resistance. I have this desire to do a thing, and I know it’s for the highest good of me and the highest good of my environment and the people around me. So I want you to think about that in the application and into your own life that it is to, let’s imagine you are a woman who has children, has a child, and you know that you want to break the intergenerational trauma of dieting that your mom passed on to you and you don’t wanna pass it on to your children. You know that you need to do your personal work un dieting your life, learning to eat in a peaceful way, making peace with your body, learning to accept yourself, detox your language and your family in your house, how you speak to yourself to really peel di culture from you. You know that’s right for you. You know you’re gonna live a better life, a bigger life and a bolder life if you do that, and you know it’s going to positively impact your children. I want you to think about that it is you that I’m describing right now, or perhaps that’s not you, but I want you to think of this, one of this big project in your life that you know can be similar to that and have positive impact for you and for people around you and you know it’s the right thing to do, but you’re resisting. You’re resisting. You perhaps describe yourself being stuck. You know it’s the right thing to do, but you just can’t bring yourself to do it.

How do we overcome that resistance? And that resistance is present very often for me inside of Undiet Your Life for people prior to joining Ondi Your life. They have something that happened in their life, becoming a mother, being diagnosed with a health condition, wanting to move forward in their career, wanting to liberate themselves so they can move and leave a relationship, like there’s a trigger in their life. In your life, your listener, and you know that joining my program is the right solution for you. It’s gonna enable you to achieve this big thing, but you just can’t bring yourself to press the buy button.

So what can you do? I’m gonna walk you through six steps for you to overcome that kind of resistance and bring yourself to a place of just doing the damn thing. And the number one step or the number one place where you wanna start is thinking about your relationship to yourself. And I really want you to think about you leading yourself. Self leadership. How are you leading yourself in approaching this transformation, this goal you want to create in your life? Are you leading yourself in this journey? And if you are, how are you meeting the resistance that you’re experiencing? Are you fighting that resistance? Are you the type of leader who gets angry at the resistance at the problem? Are you victim of the resistance? Are you saying, why is this happening to me? Like, why, why is only happening to me and all these other people can do it? Like, are you in the victim mindset? Are you leading yourself at this place in your transformation as a victim of? Are you leading yourself with compassion? Are you leading yourself with acceptance of the resistance as one of the many part of the journey towards your goal? Are you creating safety for that part of you who is resisting doing what’s best for you.

And most often we don’t. Most often we don’t because of how we have learned to lead ourselves through our years being oppressed by DI culture. For many of us, our self-leadership or the way we approach our own transformation is through blaming. It’s through pressure, it’s through fighting. It’s through being an oppressor to ourselves, beating ourselves up like we created this and what’s wrong with me? And like, depriving yourself of goodness in your life because you’re resisting, right? It’s a really, it’s a punitive kind of relationship, right? Think about the old school way of parenting, right? You wanted your child to behave in this way and you imply that punishment was needed in order to create the behavior in the child. That’s what DI culture does to us, right? It punish us, it deprives us until we behave in the way that DI culture says we need to behave in order to get the infinite 2% or 5% result that it promises. For many of us, we’ve been in that mindset since our teens, and that’s the only way we know to relate to ourselves. But when it comes the time to overcome the resistance to do what’s right for us in a non-punitive way, we just don’t know how to engage with resistance.

My invitation for you is to lean in to the resistance, is to meet the resistance you’re experiencing with compassion, with understanding. Oh, it makes total sense that I would be resisting accepting my body because I was, for 20 years since my mid-teens, socialize to hate my body. So now I’m having to do the opposite of what I’ve done my whole life. For sure, it’s gonna be hard. I’m gonna be resisting thinking in this new way.

So lead yourself in a compassionate and safe way. Be the leader you want to experience. You wanna experience safe leadership, compassionate leadership. Lead yourself in that way. And step number two, don’t forget that creating safety as a leader is creating safety for the thoughts you’re having about the resistance, but it’s also creating safety in your body. It’s actually embodying the safety, not just telling yourself, oh, it’s totally normal that I’m experiencing that resistance, but also bringing it to real life into your body by allowing the resistance to be there, to make friend with that resistance. Invest time in being with the resistance in this new way. Invest resources, whatever they are, money, time, mental space, emotional space, to make the resistance you’re experiencing safe for you. Once you’ve embodied, when you’ve led yourself to embody safety, both in the way you’re thinking about the resistance you’re experiencing and into your body, then move into asking yourself consent.

I know this is gonna blow your mind, probably. We live in a society right now, which is very focused on consent, right? Externally, organization, asking their client consent or professional, asking their clients consent. Like we live in a consensual phase of our society, but what we often forget, is that we need to ask ourselves consent in our own relationship to ourself. Remember, you are the leader of your own transformation. Do you ask yourself consent? Do I want to do this? Do you give yourself the option of saying no, or do you operate from I have to. I have to, I have to. I’ll go back to this example of mom, the mother of a child who wants to break up the intergenerational trauma of DI culture. Does she walk into the project of accepting herself and undying her life with I have to and I have to do it fast and it has to happen now or she creates safety for what she is right now and the fact she hates her body and she gives herself the time to sit with what she’s realized that Dia culture is a thing, that she hates her body and it’s just a result of socialization, and then she takes time to ask herself, do I wanna do this work? Do I want to invest time to read new information? Do I want to invest time to show up to being coached, like literally to take an hour off my schedule and have somebody help me understand my brain? Am I ready to do this work? Do I want to do this work? And am I willing to make the arrangement in order for me to do this work?

So asking ourselves consent, and whatever the answer is, allow it to be. And allow the next resistance to move in, right? Perhaps you are asking yourself consent, you’re like, yes, I want to do this. But then it comes to scheduling it into your calendar, and now you hit the new level of resistance, right? You’re looking at your calendar, you’re like, no, I don’t have time for this. It’s impossible. I’m gonna have to sleep less. And then your brain goes back to the old way of leading yourself again, right. These layers of resistance are gonna be throughout your entire creation of your goal, the pursuit of your goal, of your transformation. Once you’ve overcome the first, it’s like peeling, I always say that to my students, like appealing an onion. You gonna peel one layer and another layer will appear.

Allow. Allowance is the path. Allowance is the path for you to overcome the resistance, no matter which layer it is. Allow it to be there and need it. Need that new layer of resistance with compassion and neutrality. And then move into that next layer with the same place. Allow it to be needed with compassion and create safety, and then ask yourself, okay, do I want to say no to certain things on my calendar in order for me to make time and invest my time in becoming and learning and practicing being someone who accepts her body? Do I want to do that? Again, consent. With every layer of the onion, we repeat the same thing. We then ask consensual consent, and then we take the action from that place and we make room in our calendar. We stop doing certain things to do the new things are gonna lead us to become this new version of ourselves.

I’m gonna leave you with three powerful question to ask yourself. You’re not familiar with powerful question, these are a question we coach and teach that within all of my program to help you think, help you create a new way of thinking for the goal you’re going to achieve or for becoming the version of yourself who has the goal, the transformation completed, and practicing thinking like this version of yourself who has transformed herself or has achiever goal. So powerful thinking is a training ground for you to train your brain to think differently in order for you to achieve your transformation and overcome the resistance.

So I’m gonna give you these questions. You may wanna write them down. I’m gonna put them also, as I’m thinking about that, I’m gonna put them in the show note, if you want to copy and paste them. I have them in a Google Doc here, so I’m gonna drop them quickly in the show note. You can go to stephanie 3 54, which is the number of the episode.

Okay, number one question is, what if the resistance I’m experiencing wasn’t there to prove me wrong, but instead to deliver an important message straight from my intuition, wisdom or God, depending on your belief system. So if you’re a God person, replaced the word intuition from God, my innate wisdom, my intuition. It’s like, what if the resistance I’m experiencing right now was there to deliver an important message from my intuition?

Question number two. What if partnering with my resistance was actually the most useful way for this resistance to be release, to be melted away. Explore that. Ask your brain that question, like put yourself in front of a blank piece of paper. Just put your pen, write the question at the top of that journal Norlan entry and ask yourself that question until your brain starts thinking of an answer, and then just start writing.

Third question. What if the process of doing that, of accepting, leaning into my resistance created more trust within myself? What if the action of leaning into my resistance actually allowed me to create more trust within myself? What if that was the gateway of trusting yourself? And just as a side note, trust is the baseline of un dieting your life. So if you’re listening to this podcast because that’s your transformational goal on diet your life, know that the entire journey of accepting your body, of changing the way you relate to health and weight and food is going to be to learn to trust yourself in each one of those circumstance. Learn to trust yourself with food, which your health, with your body, with yourself, with your thinking, with your emotion, because that’s what oppressive system, a K a di culture, patriarchy, steals from us is the ability to trust ourselves. So we have to rebuild this ability to trust ourselves. So what if learning to lead yourself with compassion and safety towards the resistance you’re experiencing was just another way for you to learn to trust yourself?

I hope this helps you approach the resistance in your particular life. I know for me, creating this way of approaching resistance specifically for my community, allowed me to bring a project that has been on my mind for, as I mentioned, a year and a half in the most compassionate, powerful way. And I know that because I approach the resistance in that safe, loving way. What I’m creating when I’m about to put out in the world is going to be safe and powerful and how you are going to experience it if you join me in this new project that I’m creating.

As always, if you have any question, you can submit that at [email protected]. I love you, my sister, and I’ll see you on the next podcast.

 

 

read more
Podcast Stephanie Dodier

Welcome!

I’m Stephanie Dodier

Feminist Nutritionist & Coach.

I guide women on how to feel damn good  by reshaping their mind instead of their body. Let’s go beyond the food and fight diet culture & patriarchy by living powerfully. You’ll walk away with ressources to embrace your well-being & health in a way that will expand your freedom and power.

Is the problem you or your diet?

I asked myself this question for years…and I figure you likely have the same question so I create a assessment for you to figure it out. Take the quiz now.

ASK ME ANYTHING

Questions about body image, food, mindset, motivation, goal setting…

 

You have Successfully Subscribed!

ARE YOU READY

TO END YOUR BATTLE WITH FOOD?

Watch the recording of the Rebellious Eating Solution Masterclass 

You have Successfully Subscribed!

ARE YOU READY

TO STOP STRESSING ABOUT YOUR WEIGHT?

3-Part Masterclass Series 

You have Successfully Subscribed!

diet quiz