Welcome to the Top-Rated Going Beyond the Food

Helping women live a better, fuller and bolder life post diet culture. Mindset expert and Life Coach Stephanie Dodier combines her lived experience and coaching to teach women how to reshape their mind instead of their body. Ready? Let’s do this!

Welcome to the Top-Rated Going Beyond the Food 

Helping women live a better, fuller and bolder life post diet culture. Mindset expert and Life Coach Stephanie Dodier combines her lived experience and coaching to teach women how to reshape their mind instead of their body. Ready? Let’s do this!

Our Most Recent Episodes

384-Healthy-ish with Dr. Jillian Murphy

384-Healthy-ish with Dr. Jillian Murphy

Healthy-ish with Dr. Jillian Murphy

If you are a woman who feels like you;’ve done all the things in the name of health, but you still can’t get it right this episode is for you!

Healthy-ish with Dr. Jillian Murphy 

Dr. Jillian Murphy is a naturopathic doctor with over 16 years experience in the field, and 10+ years in the Intuitive Eating and Health at Every Size space.

She helps women ditch divisive AF one way approaches to health and tap into their dreamy, vibrant feel-good lifestyle and body.

What you’ll learn listening to this episode:

  • What the heck is healthy-ish and what does it mean?
  • What Jillian has learn in 10 year in practice
  • How she is looking at her medical practice now

Mentioned in the show: 

Health Habits Checklist

Undiet Your Life Program

Non-Diet Coaching Certification

Connect with our guest:

Join the Healthyish Newsletter

Instagram – Jillian Murphy

Transcript

Going Beyond The Food Show Ep384-Healthy-ish with Dr. Jillian Murphy 

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This is episode 384 of the beyond the food show. And today we’re going to discover the word healthy ish together with our special guest Dr. Jillian Murphy. Stay tuned.

Hello, my sisters and welcome back to the podcast. Today is a fun episode. And it’s a return back in memory lane, I have invited a guest who’s been on the podcast in almost all of my special event I’ve hosted, Dr. Jillian Murphy, she is a naturopathic doctor with 10 plus year of experience in the world of the non diet approach intuitive eating health at every size.

And this is why she’s been on the podcast for so many times because we’re both oh geez, in the non diet spheres of talking about health. So we’ve collaborated many times. And about four months ago, I was doomscrolling Instagram and it came across this post from Jillian talking about this concept called healthy ish.

And I read the post, I’m like, Ooh, she piqued my curiosity. So as a good podcast host, I thought instead of having the conversation about what the heck is healthy ish in my DM with her, I thought let’s invite her on the podcast today for I think it’s the fifth time on the podcast. So we can have a public conversation about what the heck is healthy ish or new philosophy or new program or new way of talking about the non diet approach.

And let’s all discover healthy ish together. She surprised me in inviting me back on her podcast so that I can talk about my health and how I’m approaching my health at the personal level and I did that. So, we decided to combine releasing our podcast in the same week. So I’m releasing this podcast, the last week of November and she will be releasing her podcast the last week of November as well.

So you can opt between my podcast and her podcast, which her podcast is. Quote unquote, coincidentally named 100 percent Healthyish. So you can hop between my podcast and her podcast to get to know both of us. So since you are a listener of mine for a long time, I invite you to go and check out 100 percent Healthyish.

Dr. Jillian’s Murphy’s podcast and hear me talk about like, let’s take an inside, completely behind the scene view at my health and how I’m approaching my health today, live in 2023. Also, to discover more of Jillian’s content. So with that being said, I’m very excited to share this podcast. And also, I want you to take a note on something really important in my eyes, is that me and Jillian don’t agree on everything.

We don’t. And that’s okay. She has her perspective. I have my perspective. But and should I say and we respect each other. I think that’s the level of conversation we need to have more often with people. And I think we were able and we are able to have that conversation on many other topic which we’ve had.

Many time, not only on the podcast, but in our DMs, and defer opinion while still respecting, hearing, listening to each other’s opinion. But that in mind, a return on the podcast, Dr. Jillian Murphy, and let’s deep dive into this concept of 100 percent healthy ish.

Dr. Jillian: Welcome back to the podcast, Jillian.

Dr. Jillian: No, thanks for having me back. I’m excited.

Stephanie: It’s funny because I was preparing for the podcast and I was like, I Googled my name and your name to see how many times you’ve been on the podcast.

Dr. Jillian: Oh, how many times is this? The three times.

Stephanie: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah, this podcast has been going for seven years, so you’ve been on it in 2017. 2018 and 2020. Isn’t it crazy to think that?

Dr. Jillian: That’s wild. Love it. Love it.

Stephanie: And, the reason why you’re here today for everybody. the latest podcast was podcast two 35, where you were talking about integrating intuitive eating in a family setting.

Dr. Jillian: Yes. Yes.

Stephanie: That was the last time 2020 was at the pandemic state. I think we had just started the pandemic. Wow. And you’re here today because I still follow you on Instagram. And I saw This post a few months ago that talked about healthy ish, I’m like, what is she up to? And the podcast is the place where I have conversations, so what the heck is healthy ish?

Dr. Jillian: Well, a podcast is a perfect place for the conversation as well, because it’s a pretty nuanced conversation, right? I’m always very Wash with with it. And if I’m honest, it was like several years in the hopper before I fully rebranded and came out with it. So, you know, just a teeny bit of background and I won’t go too far because probably I go further into it in other episodes. I’ve clearly talked about this before, but I’m a naturopathic doctor. I was trained as a naturopath. I graduated in 2006. I was working as I would say, uh. Fairly standard general naturopath for many years. I was always sensitive to sort of things about food and weight because of my own history with an eating disorder. But I was still very much steeped in a lot of fat phobic health beliefs, etc. 2011, I have my second daughter. I am. confronted with a different body than I’d had in the past. And so I very quickly found, I shouldn’t say quickly, but like within the year found a body image coach who introduced me to health at every size and intuitive eating. And it opened up a whole new world for me.

Dr. Jillian: And so I spent a couple of years, deep in the personal side of the work, really freeing myself up from a lot of limiting beliefs and problematic health beliefs. And then I did extensive professional training. I studied under Ellen Satter for several years. I like, you know, through my own work, and my own study brought this into my practice and very slowly.

Dr. Jillian: This is the majority of the work that I do, right? So I do, I do like intuitive eating, some disordered eating and eating disorder work, which I still continue to this day and feel really, like it’s just so deeply important. I’m very proud of that work. but then, you know, and this was early days, like I remember even coming on your podcast for the first time and being nervous. To really fully lay out some of the truths that, that was 2017, you’re telling me, I thought it was even earlier because when I started doing this work and sharing it on Instagram, there was nobody really talking about this. Like a very small percentage of people were talking about this. It was very new. every day I had people like, Either saying, wow, this is amazing. It’s the first time I’ve ever heard of this or like you’re nuts. what are you even talking about? That’s not real. So it was really new. Now, fast forward to a few years ago, I had been doing this work for 10 years, you know, a little less than that. I guess it’s 10 years now. So seven years, my community had evolved. I had evolved as we all do as human beings. And this. Field had evolved. Now, everyone is talking about intuitive eating. You know, are they talking about it in the right way? I mean, who knows? But the point is, it’s well understood, there are many people doing a fabulous job of promoting this work and talking about it.

Dr. Jillian: There are many people who, if I’m being like perfectly bluntly honest, are in bigger bodies than I am doing this work that I feel like have more space to some extent. I was like re figuring out. I’m going to talk about my role in this world of sort of body acceptance, health at every size, and intuitive eating. And through the work that I did with Ellen Sater, and then through the work that I was doing in my community and one on one, I started to bump up against This space in place where women were free, I don’t want to say free because, you know, we’re all in process, but free from a lot of the really problematic health stories and weight stories and food stories that had been crushing them for decades.

Dr. Jillian: but they were now I, you know, 40 at that time. Many of the women in my community were in their mid thirties and up to mid fifties. We’re encountering. perimenopause were, starting to find little health concerns popping up that they hadn’t had before, or were getting to a place with intuitive eating where they felt like they were quote unquote quasi intuitive eating.

Dr. Jillian: Meaning, yeah, I’m intuitive eating. But it just, I still don’t feel great. I don’t feel right. And at first I sort of poo pooed it like, Oh, you just haven’t sunk in far enough, you know, but then, you know, eventually you have to start listening to the people that you’re working with. And I realized like I was, I had been there a little bit as well and had worked my way through, but the difficulty at that time, again, I’m going to just be really blunt and really honest is that the social media world, as we know, is so.

Dr. Jillian: All or nothing, this or that, you’re in or you’re out. and when it comes to this work, I get it because we were pushing back against such pervasive weight and toxic wellness beliefs. We had to push back really hard at first, but then it got to the point where I felt like, it felt like I couldn’t talk about eating well or putting any kind of intention or thoughtfulness or like getting back to this idea that I was working with.

Dr. Jillian: People who did have diabetes and needed to, like, just strategically sometimes watch their carb or sugar intake, that’s just a real thing. and then also just evolving into this understanding that, Yes, we want to be connected to our bodies. Of course, we want to be connected. We want to be considering our bodies, but there are many things in the way that we live our daily lives that interfere with the information that our body’s giving us sometimes. So, I guess when I’m, if I was going to, land the plane here, You know, when women often first start this work, as you well know, they’ve been in no’s for a really long time, right? saying no to everything, restriction, no’s,no. Then I felt like this bulk of my work was helping them learn how to say yes.

Dr. Jillian: How do we reclaim yes? How do we find the liberation and empowerment in yes? And then Healthish evolved when I realized that even though it’s part of intuitive eating, I don’t feel like there’s a strong enough framework for gentle nutrition. I don’t feel like there’s a strong enough framework for managing health conditions for most people.

Dr. Jillian: And I really felt like the next phase was how do we teach discernment? So how do we even teach people to say no again? With a better perspective, with the right motivation, staying in connection with their body. How do we do that? What does that look like? And so for many years I felt like I couldn’t talk about that because I felt like it would be misunderstood.

Dr. Jillian: So I was just kind of quietly doing it in private. And then, I don’t know, there was something about the post COVID world where all of a sudden I felt like people were ready and looking for a more nuanced conversation in all areas.

Stephanie: and I would just want to say it’s the way you’re describing. This is almost like a Stage two of intuitive eating.

Dr. Jillian: Yeah, and I always am quite careful because I know I genuinely believe That when they wrote that intuitive eating book, this is actually what they envisioned But again, I think in order to not negate all of the important work that has to happen first I don’t think they could go that deep Into this, because people would have latched on to that, they would have ignored all the rest, they would have gone to that chapter, they would have latched on to the lessons without having done the deep deprogramming work, and they would have just used it like a diet, because people did that anyway, right?

Dr. Jillian: So, I’m always careful because I think to a certain extent, like the other way that I sometimes describe this is that. When people start the work, their mind is running the show, right? Mind is fully, they’re often completely disconnected from the neck down.

Stephanie: Bubble head, I called. Great. You remember the bubble that in the 80s and 90s? We’re just bubble head.

Dr. Jillian: Exactly. And their brains are so diet culture trained and it’s running the show and it’s making bad decisions and it’s out of alignment with the body. And then again, the second part of the work, we reconnect to the body. And then again, this third piece of the work is how do we reintegrate, how do we bring the brain back in?

Dr. Jillian: Because, you know, when I started this healthy ish work. It was because my body was asking for chocolate multiple times a day, and that’s cool. I am, I, there’s no moral story I have about that. I still eat chocolate multiple times a day sometimes, but there was a point where I was like needing a nap every day and having headaches and feeling exhausted and I had done all the other work and finally I was like, I think maybe I just need to not eat chocolate through my heavy work days, just my heavy work days and experiment with that. Yeah. So I did and I felt better, but there was like, there was brain blocks. There was mental, like there was all kinds of resistance to that. am I dieting again? Where is this coming from? And this is what I was hearing from the women that I work with. there are certain things that I know are making me feel bad, but I don’t know how to manage that yet.

Dr. Jillian: So healthy ish is this attempt to provide a framework, a kind of part two or like senior level ninja level intuitive eating. So I, it’s I’m always, the reason I like the, I was saying with the podcast is I always like to be sure people know like they need to have done some of this other work first.

Dr. Jillian: This is not. for everyone. And if even listening to us talk about me reducing the chocolate in my day, pulls up big triggers in your body, there’s probably more work to do before you’re ready to make that decision. Yeah,

Stephanie: totally. It’s stage two. It’s where for me, what I, when you’re talking about, you know, the pendulum of health coming in the middle. So it’s great. Yeah, right. Because I do a lot of mindset work, as you know, in cognitive behavioral, and there’s patterns of thinking. And one of the pattern I literally see with every woman is black and white thinking. it’s so ingrained, we’re going to one side, there’s no gray side. So most of the mindset work is teaching people to be in the gray and how to be in the gray. And when I hear you talk about healthy ish, I hear the gray side of health.

Dr. Jillian: It’s gray. Yeah. It’s very gray. it’s still, the intuitive eating is a bit messy too. This is also just, it’s it’s messy to learn how to say yes. And then it’s a little bit messy to learn how to integrate no’s again and to have a framework for. So for instance, one of the reframes that I sometimes use is Again, foundation is always, our motivation is not manipulating our body. Our motivation is not disconnection or shutting ourselves down. Our goal is to feel the way we most want to feel in our body. Are there things, because you know, restriction is such a hot button word, but are there things that if you limited it, if you restricted it, and I don’t like that word, but let’s just say that’s the word they’re thinking of, it might actually open up something new and better for you. And so there are times when I have to limit my Netflix consumption. There are times when I have to put my phone down and there is discomfort in some of those things. But I know that, you know, I’m gonna put my phone away from 4 to 7 because I want to be present with my children when they’re home.

Dr. Jillian: That doesn’t mean that I don’t think about my phone or reach in my back pocket 17 times, you know. And then I learn how to manage that. And we can do the same with food without it being dieting or restricting at our own expense. If it is opening up something like Managing blood sugar in a really positive way or energy levels or migraines

Stephanie: or, yeah,

Stephanie: is it true to say it’s the intention that’s most important?

Dr. Jillian: Yeah, yeah, and it’s, and it’s messy. Sometimes women will say, well, I just finished this 3 week healthiest reset. So we did like a reset, which is basically. I feel like it’s a fun way to experiment with putting some parameters for a very short period of time when you’re eating. Again, there’s lots of education about the motivation and how we’re going to set the parameters.

Dr. Jillian: And, one of the things that I build into my resets is flexibility. So they have to set some parameters and then they have to practice breaking them and coming back to their, you know, like that is also a skill I feel like most people don’t have, you know, it’s No rules or all rules and they have zero ability to move back and forth comfortably.

Dr. Jillian: And when I say rules, you know, I just mean like intentions and parameters, but, you know, one woman said, well, how do we, anytime I start to put some effort and thought back into my food, I immediately start thinking about my body all day long. How do I manage that? And so same, it was like, I used the phone analogy, like it’s going to be, there’s going to be this association. We have to practice retraining ourselves, reminding ourselves that’s not what this is about. I can see why my brain wants to go there. How does my body feel? How do we continue to pull our attention back to the thing that really matters? and yeah, a year or two ago, that woman may not have been able to do this, but she was ready for it.

Dr. Jillian: And so it was like, okay. Yeah, I can do this. How do we, another thing that we work through in, the reset is like managing feelings of being a victim when we say no to something. So, so let me just see if I can, say this properly, butUm, we practice figuring out what our longer term goals are for how we want to feel in our body.

Dr. Jillian: And when we’re setting parameters, we’re thinking about are there some simple tweaks that we could flexibly make to our eating to achieve these longer term goals? But in the process of doing that, we need to learn how to manage the discomfort of not having instant gratification all the time. And part of learning to eat intuitively is part is like I encourage people to give in to instant gratification because they’ve been so cut off from that, you know, but now we have to reel ourselves back just like we do with so many highly concentrated experiences in life, right?

Dr. Jillian: TV, social media, caffeine. Alcoholic. These are all concentrated experiences that, you know, with no moral judgment around them can be used really well or can be problematic. And how do we start to define where we sit best with these things? We can do the same with food, but we have to learn how to manage.

Dr. Jillian: you know, there’s like a whole exercise that I work through of like, Me saying no to ice cream one night on vacation because dairy actually upsets me a lot like not dairy ice cream specifically. And so I had set a parameter that I would like only eat ice cream X number of times on holiday and like again, I’m not talking like, instead of eating it 14 times I had it like 4 times or 5 like I wasn’t deprived.

Dr. Jillian: I was well fed. I was well nourished. I was just limiting the amount of times that I ate. this specific food that really upsets me, you know? So I said no to it one night at dinner, then I immediately fell into I’m not fun. I’m so deprived. I’m such like, poor me. And then I had to, you know, we go through this whole example of reworking ourselves out of those thoughts into am I deprived?

Dr. Jillian: no, I made sure that I had enough to eat. And if I want more, I can have more dinner if I want it. If I want, there was like strawberries and a few other dessert things. if I want those things, I can have them. Am I a victim? no, I’m an adult. I’m making a choice. I want to feel better when I go to sleep tonight.

Dr. Jillian: I don’t want to feel better in the morning. I’m choosing to do this because it’s going to allow me to feel the way I want to feel in my body and not get back from this holiday a complete wreck, which has happened to me before. And soit’s just exploring that, right? It’s exploring the feelings and the thoughts that come up when we consider making a choice.

Dr. Jillian: That isn’t an automatic yes for our health and learning from it. And there’s no right answer. There’s no right answer.

Stephanie: How do you work through associating, I’ll use the example of being a wreck after the holiday with it being more than just a food that made you a wreck? Do you know, like people often go to Oh, it’s the high screen. Like it’s just didn’t have the ice cream. I would have been a wreck. Meanwhile, they like their sleep cycle change because they’re on holiday. They walked more if they’re doing tourists. there’s so many other factors that change the food.

Dr. Jillian: Well, yeah, and so, you know, with the three week reset, we’re focused a little bit more on food just because, it’s three weeks and we just got to play with one thing, but I always talk about this in the program, even if it’s a short program, about if we’re, like, hyper fixated on the food, we’re already in the wrong spot.

Dr. Jillian: if your only consideration for how your body feels is what you ate, then you’re getting stuck back in some old diet mentality stuff, because you’re absolutely right. later nights. I mean, I drink way more. I drink way more coffee and alcohol, right? Like sleeping different. having no alone time to recharge.

Stephanie: Uh, simulated all the time with new stuff. And

Dr. Jillian: yeah, yeah, yeah. So remembering always that when it comes to health, when it comes to managing health, even when it comes to managing health conditions, we’re never going to get hyper fixated. On just food and movement or supplements, you know, but sometimes within this world, that’s what I’m working on. But we’re always, of course, considering like there’s a whole, even in the three week reset, there’s a whole lesson on cycles. And like, where are you in the world as you do this reset? What is the season? If you have a cycle, where are you at in your cycle? And how can you stay connected to that, you know, and considerate of it, without feeling like you are a victim to it, to your body and every whim and urge and craving.

Dr. Jillian: So, yeah, to me this is just an evolution. the work that we’ve all been doing, yeah,

Stephanie: but more specifically you because I want to emphasize the fact that we had a DM conversation a few months ago around that, that you’re licensed to practice medicine, you’re not just I’m saying that and I’m a nutritionist, but yeah, I’m a nutritionist, but I’m not licensed to practice medicine.

Stephanie: Hmm. Do you see what I’m saying? there’s a difference because you have different caseload that I have that need a different lens.

Dr. Jillian: that’s it. And so, for me, when I finally stepped out of this was owning the fact that just because this work isn’t right for everyone doesn’t mean it’s not right for or needed by anyone.

Dr. Jillian: Right. And me being able to, that I’m really good at it because I’ve done it for a long time. Now, if someone’s ready for this or not ready for it. You know, like it’s pretty apparent based on even how they talk about what’s happening with them, how they, and I will say, as a naturopath, even throughout all my intuitive eating years, there were definitely people that were coming to me who were further through the spectrum already.

Dr. Jillian: You know, and they were ready for this work, and I just wasn’t ready to give it to them yet. So I mean, you were in your

Stephanie: own

Dr. Jillian: black and white. Yes. Yeah. And I was in my own, everybody’s in diet mentality. And we have to be very afraid if somebody is like, cutting out gluten or whatever it would like it. I was like, I was exercising this muscle of Permission and trying to teach that and again, I’ve just evolved into this space of like, we can be accepting of the bodies that we’re in. We can be accepting of some of the health challenges that we have without being ambivalent. That’s 1 of the biggest things Ellen Satter taught me.

Dr. Jillian: We don’t need to be ambivalent. We can consider what’s happening. So ambivalent is. Ignoring or going unconscious or not caring about it. So, you can accept your body and be like, Okay, this is my body, this is the weight that I’m at. maybe you have diabetes or you have high, what, high blood pressure or you’re going through perimenopause.

Dr. Jillian: I can be accepting of that and I don’t need to fight it. But I don’t need to just ignore it or not care about it either. I can put some intention into taking care of this body that I’m in. And that’s not a negative thing. It’s a great thing. You just want to make sure you know, of course, that you’re led by someone who isn’t going to pull you back into hyper fixating on a single food or whatever

Stephanie: supplement cleanse or I’ll take the most recently I’ve been sharing a lot of story about a knee injury and I’m in, I live in a larger body. So traditional medicine, the first thing they went to is your weight and I had to set my boundaries. So the K team. All of you listen. I’m going to do everything you want me to do except go on a diet and lose weight. So give me a protocol for somebody that is a normal size for a knee injury and I’ll do it all.

Stephanie: Like I won’t just wait for it to be fixed. I will be actively working towards my health. So I have now, six months later, still a regimen of stretching and strengthening and all of that. I’m doing what I need to be doing for the health of my knee, except one thing, which is to lose weight. But that doesn’t mean because I don’t want to lose weight that I don’t do anything. That would be the right thing.

Dr. Jillian: Right. Yeah. Or you don’t care about your knee or you’re just going to ignore it and be like, well. let go and let God or whatever they say, you know, no, you don’t have to do that. Right. And so again, I think my work has focused a little bit more on the food movement side of things because it’s trickier.

Dr. Jillian: Like I felt like for many years I did add ins right. So just like supplements, the things that we can add in. and then again, I just felt like there was just this next little thing that, that there was a group of people who really needed to be able to explore. But you know, again, always within context, like if somebody has, I had lunch with a friend, earlier this week and, she did this whole hypnotherapy program for IBS and like, amazing.

Dr. Jillian: If there’s a way to control IBS without needing to be on a highly restrictive diet, like I’m always looking for multifaceted approaches. And you know, if someone has blood sugar that’s out of control and their doctor saying you’re diabetic or pre diabetic, how’s your sleep? We know that terrible sleep leads to out of control blood sugar, like always, always, always, like I feel obviously like all of this other work that I’ve done for years has landed me in this place where I can have a great perspective while helping people, be a little bit more intentional with their food and movement and supplement protocols. Yeah,

Stephanie: and the intention, like I, like we were saying in the beginning, not being losing weight. But supporting your body more,

Dr. Jillian: that’s it. That’s literally it. It’s like we just take that one thing out of the equation and we learn to manage all of the feelings that pop up that want to pull us back into that and also the feelings that kind of were developed or came about as people learn to say yes to themselves.

Dr. Jillian: Like they had to really sometimes be like, I’m allowed. I deserve it. I’m worth it. But How could we bring those phrases into discernment instead of just yeses? Like you’re allowed. Yes. You’re allowed. Of course. You’re always allowed as an adult. You can do whatever you want to do. What would you like to do?

Dr. Jillian: Right? If we bring the body and the mind back together, what would you like to do? You know, I love caffeine. My body would happily have caffeine all day, every day, but my sleep. is not good. So I make choices around that, right? Sometimes I set a parameter on my caffeine intake. It doesn’t mean it’s always easy because I’m Irish and we want to drink black tea after everything, all hours of the day and night, you know, but it doesn’t serve me.

Dr. Jillian: So I make choices about that. It’s just trickier when it comes to certain foods because the thought processes get messy for people and they need help. Sifting through it,

Stephanie: I think for me, the word you said here is key is the thought process because as you were talking, I often talk about rebellious eating and often the risk, like eating, and you eat whatever emotionally eating and response because you’re angry, but emotional rebellious eating can swing the other way where there’s no more nose.

Stephanie: It’s just yes. Now you’re rebelliously eating. In another way, still the answer is no rebellious eating either way, it’s the middle.

Dr. Jillian: Well, I talk about this all the time because, women will say, if someone even merely suggests that I might need to look at my food, I’m eating it, it’s that, you know, that saying which is like cutting off your own nose to spite your face. And if this food actually makes you feel bad and you’re kind of aware of it, like you’re not rebelling against diet culture at this point. You’re rebelling against yourself. Yes.

Dr. Jillian: Right. And there’s like a level of safety that we need to create or find so that you don’t need to rebel. That you feel safe enough that you can just make choices. Like you’re not constantly worried that someone’s about to crush your safety.

Stephanie: Yeah, you’re rebelling against yourself because you’re being inconsiderate of supporting your body with food with and it’s the same thing. If we were to talk about movement, I mean, yeah, how many women are stuck in the no phase of movement because they use the too much to shrink their body. So now they’re stuck in and I was there for 5 years of not moving your body. And that has side effects.

Dr. Jillian: Yeah. Yeah. It’s we have to get clear on the fact that sometimes there are pros to taking a break from exercise, but there are also side effects to not moving our body.

Dr. Jillian: And it’s not diet culture to be aware of those things and consider them and learn how to work our way through. Right. So, I feel like it’s a really exciting conversation. And like I said, I think that if there’s anyone who listens to this. And it pulls up negative feelings. That’s okay. set the episode aside and get, there’ll be a moment where you’re like ready and then you’re like, what was that? Okay. Who are those two women talking about this thing? Because there are rare cases where I think people are never ready for this. Like maybe there’s just been too much trauma around their body or food or whatever. And that’s fine because the healthiest thing that people can be doing is just getting enough food, like bottom line, you know, eating enough and eating regularly and all of that. So they’re already nine tenths of the way there. This is like the cherry on the icing on the cake. You know what I mean?

Stephanie: how would you to the person listening who’s triggered by this and not ready for this? What would you say is the thing they can do to be ready for that healthiest conversation?

Dr. Jillian: Well, what that always pulls up for me is that they’re feeling pressure. So, something about us talking about this is making them feel pressured to do something. And so, just reminding themselves that they’re not pressured to do anything. They can always make choices. And if this feels like too much pressure, then what I tend to redirect people back toward is like neutralizing their relationship with food, feeding themselves right, just get back into that, like neutralizing their own. moral judgments about food, like there must be some in there for them still.

Dr. Jillian: Because like internalized sexism, internalized misogyny. Like you are now applying it to yourself. I mean, there’s also the possibility that people outside of you are applying it to you. Fine. Fair enough. But often, like if people are in a situation where this is interesting, but oh my God, I can’t.

Dr. Jillian: It’s like, where have you internalized? Stories about your own body, about food, about movement, is there a way for you to start challenging that, creating more and more safety within yourself, knowing that, you know, the outside world is always going to be putting weird pressures on us, awful pressures that we can’t necessarily mitigate, you know.

Dr. Jillian: but I feel like most often when people have that triggered reaction, it’s like we’re finding the wound. That’s what we’re finding. A trigger is the wound. So what healing needs to happen there? What do you need to happen so that you are, because this is interesting actually, because what I would hear from most women is that this quasi eating phase that they would find themselves in still didn’t fully feel like liberation or control or agency.

Dr. Jillian: Right. And so when we find the wound, it’s like, what do we need to heal up so that you can actually reclaim full empowerment, like at first it felt like empowerment and agency to say yes, but then eventually it starts to be like, but if I can’t also say no to something that really doesn’t feel good in my body and affects me negatively.

Dr. Jillian: That doesn’t really feel like freedom either, you know? So what do we need to heal up? that’s the wound. What do we need to heal up? Where do we need to create more safety? Where do you need to feel like you are fully in control of the decisions that you’re making? What thoughts? What behaviors? What understandings? What do we need to shift so that you can trust yourself to make the right choices for you?

Stephanie: What would you say to the person who’s listening to this? Been around intuitive eating for a while perhaps in the journey and she says, oh, that’s the way of doing intuitive eating So I don’t feel out of control

Dr. Jillian: because she’s feeling out of control right now Well, there’s a couple of different ways of looking at that. So the first is the other thing I really learned from Ellen Satter, which I didn’t get, what, because she does competent eating, which is a little different, right? We talked about this from intuitive eating, is that she does always provide some structure for the people that she works with.

Dr. Jillian: And I have found along the way through eating disorder work, as well as just disordered eating work, that there are some people who need some structure right out of the gate. they just cannot, there are some people who need no structure, like even the mere mention of structure. They’ve been, the other analogy I use for this, which might be helpful for your clientele, I’m not sure, is, Barbara Colaroso is a parenting expert, so she writes parenting and, she’d talk about the brick wall parent.

Dr. Jillian: Sometimes, you know, the dictator parent, the brick wall parent, right? They have the rules. They never bend them. They never consider the cut. That’s the dieter, right? The brick wall. That’s the plan. I’m sticking with it. I don’t care if I’m nearly passing out or I have a headache I’m sticking with. Then there’s the jellyfish parent often born from a brick wall parent who has no rules and no parameters and stare as late as you want.

Dr. Jillian: And Children don’t actually feel particularly safe in either of these households, because they don’t feel safe if they’re not heard or considered, and they don’t feel safe, there’s zero structure, and it feels like nobody’s caring for you, it’s like a 24 7 party, that doesn’t feel good to a kid either, and so what we’re trying to do as parents is become these, she calls them backbone parents, where there’s this flexible backbone, where there’s some structureAnd this is the analogy I use as well, like sometimes when we leave dieting, we become jellyfish and we’ve got to come back to this.

Dr. Jillian: So I’d say, actually you could experiment with it, but if it makes things worse, you’re doing it for the wrong reasons.

Stephanie: I’ll say this, meet the gray space, you have to have gone to the black and white space. Yeah, like to be able to be flexible, you have to know both and say, I don’t want this and I don’t want this.

Stephanie: And I want something here in the middle, but completely avoiding this, you’re missing out building safety for being in all part of life.

Dr. Jillian: I’m thinking about I’m seeing like. big splotches of paint, right? And you can’t make gray if you haven’t dipped your hand into the black and into the white. So, right. So yeah, like I’ll say yes and no’s are flip sides of the same coin.

Dr. Jillian: So if you can’t own a yes, you cannot properly own a no. they’re limited by the extent to which you can explore each one of those things. So I would agree with you. I love this, like taking these splotches of color. If you want to create gray, you know, you can’t just have been a dieter who’s been really reacting negatively to dieting and then think all of a sudden you can just be in gray.

Stephanie: You know? You have to have both. Yeah. And the exploration is born out of safety. For you to be able to explore the both side, you need to be able to have the safety within yourself from yourself to yourself and that’s built. By trusting yourself through every phase of eating. I love that. Is there anything else you would like people to know about Healthish? And where can they find out more about Healthish with you?

Dr. Jillian: Well, the link that I’ve given you is healthishnewsletter. com. And there’s like a two week series, which is kind of fun. Because some of it may be familiar. It’s it’s like breaking down sayings that I hate in the wellness culture, but it’s fun because some of them are really diety and some of them are not.

Dr. Jillian: Some of them are kind of anti diety and I’m like, well, let’s look at what I don’t love about this either, you know? so that’s a really great way to get introduced to the concept and to me and to find out more about this work. I don’t know if there’s anything else I want people to know, but just that.

Dr. Jillian: You have your podcast. Oh, yes. I have a podcast. Yeah. It’s 100 percent healthy. It used to be food, freedom, body love, but it’s 100 percent healthy ish. And Stephanie, you’re going to come be on as well in a couple of weeks. and there’s all kinds of great conversations there as well. as I’ve moved from where I was into this, I think there’s lots of interesting conversations around reintegrating wellness.

Dr. Jillian: In a less toxic way because there’s good stuff in there if we come at it with a really good critical thinking mind and we’re clear on what we value and how we want to feel in our bodies. There’s so much goodness in there.

Stephanie: Anybody that’s listening to this that have a medicalized condition or diagnosed condition, I will just say you can work with them. And often people from my world are not equipped for that. They need to refer out. So yeah, you’re the resource within intuitive eating health at every size for people with conditions.

Dr. Jillian: Yeah. Hello at healthyish. ca. there’s a dash healthy ish. ca. You can email me. Yes, we can work with it.

Stephanie: Yeah, and that’s the conversation we had on DM, like if I had the need for a health condition, you’d be the first person I would go to because I would know you have all these principles in this baseline. I wouldn’t be served what I don’t need to be served.

Dr. Jillian: No, you don’t need to be super restrictive to manage diabetes. You don’t need to be super restrictive to manage high cholesterol. that is not true. It backfires. It’s bad. But we can be intentional and thoughtful at the same time.

Stephanie: Yeah. Yeah. That was a beautiful conversation. I’m happy we had it. And I love to be able to introduce people to my listener who have a great view. It’s not dichotomy on the one side to the other is disability to be in the middle safely.

Dr. Jillian: Thank you. I love it. Thanks for having me.

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Episode 384-Healthy-ish with Dr. Jillian Murphy 

This is episode 384 of the beyond the food show. And today we’re going to discover the word healthy ish together with our special guest Dr. Jillian Murphy. Stay tuned.

Hello, my sisters and welcome back to the podcast. Today is a fun episode. And it’s a return back in memory lane, I have invited a guest who’s been on the podcast in almost all of my special event I’ve hosted, Dr. Jillian Murphy, she is a naturopathic doctor with 10 plus year of experience in the world of the non diet approach intuitive eating health at every size.

And this is why she’s been on the podcast for so many times because we’re both oh geez, in the non diet spheres of talking about health. So we’ve collaborated many times. And about four months ago, I was doomscrolling Instagram and it came across this post from Jillian talking about this concept called healthy ish.

And I read the post, I’m like, Ooh, she piqued my curiosity. So as a good podcast host, I thought instead of having the conversation about what the heck is healthy ish in my DM with her, I thought let’s invite her on the podcast today for I think it’s the fifth time on the podcast. So we can have a public conversation about what the heck is healthy ish or new philosophy or new program or new way of talking about the non diet approach.

And let’s all discover healthy ish together. She surprised me in inviting me back on her podcast so that I can talk about my health and how I’m approaching my health at the personal level and I did that. So, we decided to combine releasing our podcast in the same week. So I’m releasing this podcast, the last week of November and she will be releasing her podcast the last week of November as well.

So you can opt between my podcast and her podcast, which her podcast is. Quote unquote, coincidentally named 100 percent Healthyish. So you can hop between my podcast and her podcast to get to know both of us. So since you are a listener of mine for a long time, I invite you to go and check out 100 percent Healthyish.

Dr. Jillian’s Murphy’s podcast and hear me talk about like, let’s take an inside, completely behind the scene view at my health and how I’m approaching my health today, live in 2023. Also, to discover more of Jillian’s content. So with that being said, I’m very excited to share this podcast. And also, I want you to take a note on something really important in my eyes, is that me and Jillian don’t agree on everything.

We don’t. And that’s okay. She has her perspective. I have my perspective. But and should I say and we respect each other. I think that’s the level of conversation we need to have more often with people. And I think we were able and we are able to have that conversation on many other topic which we’ve had.

Many time, not only on the podcast, but in our DMs, and defer opinion while still respecting, hearing, listening to each other’s opinion. But that in mind, a return on the podcast, Dr. Jillian Murphy, and let’s deep dive into this concept of 100 percent healthy ish.

Dr. Jillian: Welcome back to the podcast, Jillian.

Dr. Jillian: No, thanks for having me back. I’m excited.

Stephanie: It’s funny because I was preparing for the podcast and I was like, I Googled my name and your name to see how many times you’ve been on the podcast.

Dr. Jillian: Oh, how many times is this? The three times.

Stephanie: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah, this podcast has been going for seven years, so you’ve been on it in 2017. 2018 and 2020. Isn’t it crazy to think that?

Dr. Jillian: That’s wild. Love it. Love it.

Stephanie: And, the reason why you’re here today for everybody. the latest podcast was podcast two 35, where you were talking about integrating intuitive eating in a family setting.

Dr. Jillian: Yes. Yes.

Stephanie: That was the last time 2020 was at the pandemic state. I think we had just started the pandemic. Wow. And you’re here today because I still follow you on Instagram. And I saw This post a few months ago that talked about healthy ish, I’m like, what is she up to? And the podcast is the place where I have conversations, so what the heck is healthy ish?

Dr. Jillian: Well, a podcast is a perfect place for the conversation as well, because it’s a pretty nuanced conversation, right? I’m always very Wash with with it. And if I’m honest, it was like several years in the hopper before I fully rebranded and came out with it. So, you know, just a teeny bit of background and I won’t go too far because probably I go further into it in other episodes. I’ve clearly talked about this before, but I’m a naturopathic doctor. I was trained as a naturopath. I graduated in 2006. I was working as I would say, uh. Fairly standard general naturopath for many years. I was always sensitive to sort of things about food and weight because of my own history with an eating disorder. But I was still very much steeped in a lot of fat phobic health beliefs, etc. 2011, I have my second daughter. I am. confronted with a different body than I’d had in the past. And so I very quickly found, I shouldn’t say quickly, but like within the year found a body image coach who introduced me to health at every size and intuitive eating. And it opened up a whole new world for me.

Dr. Jillian: And so I spent a couple of years, deep in the personal side of the work, really freeing myself up from a lot of limiting beliefs and problematic health beliefs. And then I did extensive professional training. I studied under Ellen Satter for several years. I like, you know, through my own work, and my own study brought this into my practice and very slowly.

Dr. Jillian: This is the majority of the work that I do, right? So I do, I do like intuitive eating, some disordered eating and eating disorder work, which I still continue to this day and feel really, like it’s just so deeply important. I’m very proud of that work. but then, you know, and this was early days, like I remember even coming on your podcast for the first time and being nervous. To really fully lay out some of the truths that, that was 2017, you’re telling me, I thought it was even earlier because when I started doing this work and sharing it on Instagram, there was nobody really talking about this. Like a very small percentage of people were talking about this. It was very new. every day I had people like, Either saying, wow, this is amazing. It’s the first time I’ve ever heard of this or like you’re nuts. what are you even talking about? That’s not real. So it was really new. Now, fast forward to a few years ago, I had been doing this work for 10 years, you know, a little less than that. I guess it’s 10 years now. So seven years, my community had evolved. I had evolved as we all do as human beings. And this. Field had evolved. Now, everyone is talking about intuitive eating. You know, are they talking about it in the right way? I mean, who knows? But the point is, it’s well understood, there are many people doing a fabulous job of promoting this work and talking about it.

Dr. Jillian: There are many people who, if I’m being like perfectly bluntly honest, are in bigger bodies than I am doing this work that I feel like have more space to some extent. I was like re figuring out. I’m going to talk about my role in this world of sort of body acceptance, health at every size, and intuitive eating. And through the work that I did with Ellen Sater, and then through the work that I was doing in my community and one on one, I started to bump up against This space in place where women were free, I don’t want to say free because, you know, we’re all in process, but free from a lot of the really problematic health stories and weight stories and food stories that had been crushing them for decades.

Dr. Jillian: but they were now I, you know, 40 at that time. Many of the women in my community were in their mid thirties and up to mid fifties. We’re encountering. perimenopause were, starting to find little health concerns popping up that they hadn’t had before, or were getting to a place with intuitive eating where they felt like they were quote unquote quasi intuitive eating.

Dr. Jillian: Meaning, yeah, I’m intuitive eating. But it just, I still don’t feel great. I don’t feel right. And at first I sort of poo pooed it like, Oh, you just haven’t sunk in far enough, you know, but then, you know, eventually you have to start listening to the people that you’re working with. And I realized like I was, I had been there a little bit as well and had worked my way through, but the difficulty at that time, again, I’m going to just be really blunt and really honest is that the social media world, as we know, is so.

Dr. Jillian: All or nothing, this or that, you’re in or you’re out. and when it comes to this work, I get it because we were pushing back against such pervasive weight and toxic wellness beliefs. We had to push back really hard at first, but then it got to the point where I felt like, it felt like I couldn’t talk about eating well or putting any kind of intention or thoughtfulness or like getting back to this idea that I was working with.

Dr. Jillian: People who did have diabetes and needed to, like, just strategically sometimes watch their carb or sugar intake, that’s just a real thing. and then also just evolving into this understanding that, Yes, we want to be connected to our bodies. Of course, we want to be connected. We want to be considering our bodies, but there are many things in the way that we live our daily lives that interfere with the information that our body’s giving us sometimes. So, I guess when I’m, if I was going to, land the plane here, You know, when women often first start this work, as you well know, they’ve been in no’s for a really long time, right? saying no to everything, restriction, no’s,no. Then I felt like this bulk of my work was helping them learn how to say yes.

Dr. Jillian: How do we reclaim yes? How do we find the liberation and empowerment in yes? And then Healthish evolved when I realized that even though it’s part of intuitive eating, I don’t feel like there’s a strong enough framework for gentle nutrition. I don’t feel like there’s a strong enough framework for managing health conditions for most people.

Dr. Jillian: And I really felt like the next phase was how do we teach discernment? So how do we even teach people to say no again? With a better perspective, with the right motivation, staying in connection with their body. How do we do that? What does that look like? And so for many years I felt like I couldn’t talk about that because I felt like it would be misunderstood.

Dr. Jillian: So I was just kind of quietly doing it in private. And then, I don’t know, there was something about the post COVID world where all of a sudden I felt like people were ready and looking for a more nuanced conversation in all areas.

Stephanie: and I would just want to say it’s the way you’re describing. This is almost like a Stage two of intuitive eating.

Dr. Jillian: Yeah, and I always am quite careful because I know I genuinely believe That when they wrote that intuitive eating book, this is actually what they envisioned But again, I think in order to not negate all of the important work that has to happen first I don’t think they could go that deep Into this, because people would have latched on to that, they would have ignored all the rest, they would have gone to that chapter, they would have latched on to the lessons without having done the deep deprogramming work, and they would have just used it like a diet, because people did that anyway, right?

Dr. Jillian: So, I’m always careful because I think to a certain extent, like the other way that I sometimes describe this is that. When people start the work, their mind is running the show, right? Mind is fully, they’re often completely disconnected from the neck down.

Stephanie: Bubble head, I called. Great. You remember the bubble that in the 80s and 90s? We’re just bubble head.

Dr. Jillian: Exactly. And their brains are so diet culture trained and it’s running the show and it’s making bad decisions and it’s out of alignment with the body. And then again, the second part of the work, we reconnect to the body. And then again, this third piece of the work is how do we reintegrate, how do we bring the brain back in?

Dr. Jillian: Because, you know, when I started this healthy ish work. It was because my body was asking for chocolate multiple times a day, and that’s cool. I am, I, there’s no moral story I have about that. I still eat chocolate multiple times a day sometimes, but there was a point where I was like needing a nap every day and having headaches and feeling exhausted and I had done all the other work and finally I was like, I think maybe I just need to not eat chocolate through my heavy work days, just my heavy work days and experiment with that. Yeah. So I did and I felt better, but there was like, there was brain blocks. There was mental, like there was all kinds of resistance to that. am I dieting again? Where is this coming from? And this is what I was hearing from the women that I work with. there are certain things that I know are making me feel bad, but I don’t know how to manage that yet.

Dr. Jillian: So healthy ish is this attempt to provide a framework, a kind of part two or like senior level ninja level intuitive eating. So I, it’s I’m always, the reason I like the, I was saying with the podcast is I always like to be sure people know like they need to have done some of this other work first.

Dr. Jillian: This is not. for everyone. And if even listening to us talk about me reducing the chocolate in my day, pulls up big triggers in your body, there’s probably more work to do before you’re ready to make that decision. Yeah,

Stephanie: totally. It’s stage two. It’s where for me, what I, when you’re talking about, you know, the pendulum of health coming in the middle. So it’s great. Yeah, right. Because I do a lot of mindset work, as you know, in cognitive behavioral, and there’s patterns of thinking. And one of the pattern I literally see with every woman is black and white thinking. it’s so ingrained, we’re going to one side, there’s no gray side. So most of the mindset work is teaching people to be in the gray and how to be in the gray. And when I hear you talk about healthy ish, I hear the gray side of health.

Dr. Jillian: It’s gray. Yeah. It’s very gray. it’s still, the intuitive eating is a bit messy too. This is also just, it’s it’s messy to learn how to say yes. And then it’s a little bit messy to learn how to integrate no’s again and to have a framework for. So for instance, one of the reframes that I sometimes use is Again, foundation is always, our motivation is not manipulating our body. Our motivation is not disconnection or shutting ourselves down. Our goal is to feel the way we most want to feel in our body. Are there things, because you know, restriction is such a hot button word, but are there things that if you limited it, if you restricted it, and I don’t like that word, but let’s just say that’s the word they’re thinking of, it might actually open up something new and better for you. And so there are times when I have to limit my Netflix consumption. There are times when I have to put my phone down and there is discomfort in some of those things. But I know that, you know, I’m gonna put my phone away from 4 to 7 because I want to be present with my children when they’re home.

Dr. Jillian: That doesn’t mean that I don’t think about my phone or reach in my back pocket 17 times, you know. And then I learn how to manage that. And we can do the same with food without it being dieting or restricting at our own expense. If it is opening up something like Managing blood sugar in a really positive way or energy levels or migraines

Stephanie: or, yeah,

Stephanie: is it true to say it’s the intention that’s most important?

Dr. Jillian: Yeah, yeah, and it’s, and it’s messy. Sometimes women will say, well, I just finished this 3 week healthiest reset. So we did like a reset, which is basically. I feel like it’s a fun way to experiment with putting some parameters for a very short period of time when you’re eating. Again, there’s lots of education about the motivation and how we’re going to set the parameters.

Dr. Jillian: And, one of the things that I build into my resets is flexibility. So they have to set some parameters and then they have to practice breaking them and coming back to their, you know, like that is also a skill I feel like most people don’t have, you know, it’s No rules or all rules and they have zero ability to move back and forth comfortably.

Dr. Jillian: And when I say rules, you know, I just mean like intentions and parameters, but, you know, one woman said, well, how do we, anytime I start to put some effort and thought back into my food, I immediately start thinking about my body all day long. How do I manage that? And so same, it was like, I used the phone analogy, like it’s going to be, there’s going to be this association. We have to practice retraining ourselves, reminding ourselves that’s not what this is about. I can see why my brain wants to go there. How does my body feel? How do we continue to pull our attention back to the thing that really matters? and yeah, a year or two ago, that woman may not have been able to do this, but she was ready for it.

Dr. Jillian: And so it was like, okay. Yeah, I can do this. How do we, another thing that we work through in, the reset is like managing feelings of being a victim when we say no to something. So, so let me just see if I can, say this properly, butUm, we practice figuring out what our longer term goals are for how we want to feel in our body.

Dr. Jillian: And when we’re setting parameters, we’re thinking about are there some simple tweaks that we could flexibly make to our eating to achieve these longer term goals? But in the process of doing that, we need to learn how to manage the discomfort of not having instant gratification all the time. And part of learning to eat intuitively is part is like I encourage people to give in to instant gratification because they’ve been so cut off from that, you know, but now we have to reel ourselves back just like we do with so many highly concentrated experiences in life, right?

Dr. Jillian: TV, social media, caffeine. Alcoholic. These are all concentrated experiences that, you know, with no moral judgment around them can be used really well or can be problematic. And how do we start to define where we sit best with these things? We can do the same with food, but we have to learn how to manage.

Dr. Jillian: you know, there’s like a whole exercise that I work through of like, Me saying no to ice cream one night on vacation because dairy actually upsets me a lot like not dairy ice cream specifically. And so I had set a parameter that I would like only eat ice cream X number of times on holiday and like again, I’m not talking like, instead of eating it 14 times I had it like 4 times or 5 like I wasn’t deprived.

Dr. Jillian: I was well fed. I was well nourished. I was just limiting the amount of times that I ate. this specific food that really upsets me, you know? So I said no to it one night at dinner, then I immediately fell into I’m not fun. I’m so deprived. I’m such like, poor me. And then I had to, you know, we go through this whole example of reworking ourselves out of those thoughts into am I deprived?

Dr. Jillian: no, I made sure that I had enough to eat. And if I want more, I can have more dinner if I want it. If I want, there was like strawberries and a few other dessert things. if I want those things, I can have them. Am I a victim? no, I’m an adult. I’m making a choice. I want to feel better when I go to sleep tonight.

Dr. Jillian: I don’t want to feel better in the morning. I’m choosing to do this because it’s going to allow me to feel the way I want to feel in my body and not get back from this holiday a complete wreck, which has happened to me before. And soit’s just exploring that, right? It’s exploring the feelings and the thoughts that come up when we consider making a choice.

Dr. Jillian: That isn’t an automatic yes for our health and learning from it. And there’s no right answer. There’s no right answer.

Stephanie: How do you work through associating, I’ll use the example of being a wreck after the holiday with it being more than just a food that made you a wreck? Do you know, like people often go to Oh, it’s the high screen. Like it’s just didn’t have the ice cream. I would have been a wreck. Meanwhile, they like their sleep cycle change because they’re on holiday. They walked more if they’re doing tourists. there’s so many other factors that change the food.

Dr. Jillian: Well, yeah, and so, you know, with the three week reset, we’re focused a little bit more on food just because, it’s three weeks and we just got to play with one thing, but I always talk about this in the program, even if it’s a short program, about if we’re, like, hyper fixated on the food, we’re already in the wrong spot.

Dr. Jillian: if your only consideration for how your body feels is what you ate, then you’re getting stuck back in some old diet mentality stuff, because you’re absolutely right. later nights. I mean, I drink way more. I drink way more coffee and alcohol, right? Like sleeping different. having no alone time to recharge.

Stephanie: Uh, simulated all the time with new stuff. And

Dr. Jillian: yeah, yeah, yeah. So remembering always that when it comes to health, when it comes to managing health, even when it comes to managing health conditions, we’re never going to get hyper fixated. On just food and movement or supplements, you know, but sometimes within this world, that’s what I’m working on. But we’re always, of course, considering like there’s a whole, even in the three week reset, there’s a whole lesson on cycles. And like, where are you in the world as you do this reset? What is the season? If you have a cycle, where are you at in your cycle? And how can you stay connected to that, you know, and considerate of it, without feeling like you are a victim to it, to your body and every whim and urge and craving.

Dr. Jillian: So, yeah, to me this is just an evolution. the work that we’ve all been doing, yeah,

Stephanie: but more specifically you because I want to emphasize the fact that we had a DM conversation a few months ago around that, that you’re licensed to practice medicine, you’re not just I’m saying that and I’m a nutritionist, but yeah, I’m a nutritionist, but I’m not licensed to practice medicine.

Stephanie: Hmm. Do you see what I’m saying? there’s a difference because you have different caseload that I have that need a different lens.

Dr. Jillian: that’s it. And so, for me, when I finally stepped out of this was owning the fact that just because this work isn’t right for everyone doesn’t mean it’s not right for or needed by anyone.

Dr. Jillian: Right. And me being able to, that I’m really good at it because I’ve done it for a long time. Now, if someone’s ready for this or not ready for it. You know, like it’s pretty apparent based on even how they talk about what’s happening with them, how they, and I will say, as a naturopath, even throughout all my intuitive eating years, there were definitely people that were coming to me who were further through the spectrum already.

Dr. Jillian: You know, and they were ready for this work, and I just wasn’t ready to give it to them yet. So I mean, you were in your

Stephanie: own

Dr. Jillian: black and white. Yes. Yeah. And I was in my own, everybody’s in diet mentality. And we have to be very afraid if somebody is like, cutting out gluten or whatever it would like it. I was like, I was exercising this muscle of Permission and trying to teach that and again, I’ve just evolved into this space of like, we can be accepting of the bodies that we’re in. We can be accepting of some of the health challenges that we have without being ambivalent. That’s 1 of the biggest things Ellen Satter taught me.

Dr. Jillian: We don’t need to be ambivalent. We can consider what’s happening. So ambivalent is. Ignoring or going unconscious or not caring about it. So, you can accept your body and be like, Okay, this is my body, this is the weight that I’m at. maybe you have diabetes or you have high, what, high blood pressure or you’re going through perimenopause.

Dr. Jillian: I can be accepting of that and I don’t need to fight it. But I don’t need to just ignore it or not care about it either. I can put some intention into taking care of this body that I’m in. And that’s not a negative thing. It’s a great thing. You just want to make sure you know, of course, that you’re led by someone who isn’t going to pull you back into hyper fixating on a single food or whatever

Stephanie: supplement cleanse or I’ll take the most recently I’ve been sharing a lot of story about a knee injury and I’m in, I live in a larger body. So traditional medicine, the first thing they went to is your weight and I had to set my boundaries. So the K team. All of you listen. I’m going to do everything you want me to do except go on a diet and lose weight. So give me a protocol for somebody that is a normal size for a knee injury and I’ll do it all.

Stephanie: Like I won’t just wait for it to be fixed. I will be actively working towards my health. So I have now, six months later, still a regimen of stretching and strengthening and all of that. I’m doing what I need to be doing for the health of my knee, except one thing, which is to lose weight. But that doesn’t mean because I don’t want to lose weight that I don’t do anything. That would be the right thing.

Dr. Jillian: Right. Yeah. Or you don’t care about your knee or you’re just going to ignore it and be like, well. let go and let God or whatever they say, you know, no, you don’t have to do that. Right. And so again, I think my work has focused a little bit more on the food movement side of things because it’s trickier.

Dr. Jillian: Like I felt like for many years I did add ins right. So just like supplements, the things that we can add in. and then again, I just felt like there was just this next little thing that, that there was a group of people who really needed to be able to explore. But you know, again, always within context, like if somebody has, I had lunch with a friend, earlier this week and, she did this whole hypnotherapy program for IBS and like, amazing.

Dr. Jillian: If there’s a way to control IBS without needing to be on a highly restrictive diet, like I’m always looking for multifaceted approaches. And you know, if someone has blood sugar that’s out of control and their doctor saying you’re diabetic or pre diabetic, how’s your sleep? We know that terrible sleep leads to out of control blood sugar, like always, always, always, like I feel obviously like all of this other work that I’ve done for years has landed me in this place where I can have a great perspective while helping people, be a little bit more intentional with their food and movement and supplement protocols. Yeah,

Stephanie: and the intention, like I, like we were saying in the beginning, not being losing weight. But supporting your body more,

Dr. Jillian: that’s it. That’s literally it. It’s like we just take that one thing out of the equation and we learn to manage all of the feelings that pop up that want to pull us back into that and also the feelings that kind of were developed or came about as people learn to say yes to themselves.

Dr. Jillian: Like they had to really sometimes be like, I’m allowed. I deserve it. I’m worth it. But How could we bring those phrases into discernment instead of just yeses? Like you’re allowed. Yes. You’re allowed. Of course. You’re always allowed as an adult. You can do whatever you want to do. What would you like to do?

Dr. Jillian: Right? If we bring the body and the mind back together, what would you like to do? You know, I love caffeine. My body would happily have caffeine all day, every day, but my sleep. is not good. So I make choices around that, right? Sometimes I set a parameter on my caffeine intake. It doesn’t mean it’s always easy because I’m Irish and we want to drink black tea after everything, all hours of the day and night, you know, but it doesn’t serve me.

Dr. Jillian: So I make choices about that. It’s just trickier when it comes to certain foods because the thought processes get messy for people and they need help. Sifting through it,

Stephanie: I think for me, the word you said here is key is the thought process because as you were talking, I often talk about rebellious eating and often the risk, like eating, and you eat whatever emotionally eating and response because you’re angry, but emotional rebellious eating can swing the other way where there’s no more nose.

Stephanie: It’s just yes. Now you’re rebelliously eating. In another way, still the answer is no rebellious eating either way, it’s the middle.

Dr. Jillian: Well, I talk about this all the time because, women will say, if someone even merely suggests that I might need to look at my food, I’m eating it, it’s that, you know, that saying which is like cutting off your own nose to spite your face. And if this food actually makes you feel bad and you’re kind of aware of it, like you’re not rebelling against diet culture at this point. You’re rebelling against yourself. Yes.

Dr. Jillian: Right. And there’s like a level of safety that we need to create or find so that you don’t need to rebel. That you feel safe enough that you can just make choices. Like you’re not constantly worried that someone’s about to crush your safety.

Stephanie: Yeah, you’re rebelling against yourself because you’re being inconsiderate of supporting your body with food with and it’s the same thing. If we were to talk about movement, I mean, yeah, how many women are stuck in the no phase of movement because they use the too much to shrink their body. So now they’re stuck in and I was there for 5 years of not moving your body. And that has side effects.

Dr. Jillian: Yeah. Yeah. It’s we have to get clear on the fact that sometimes there are pros to taking a break from exercise, but there are also side effects to not moving our body.

Dr. Jillian: And it’s not diet culture to be aware of those things and consider them and learn how to work our way through. Right. So, I feel like it’s a really exciting conversation. And like I said, I think that if there’s anyone who listens to this. And it pulls up negative feelings. That’s okay. set the episode aside and get, there’ll be a moment where you’re like ready and then you’re like, what was that? Okay. Who are those two women talking about this thing? Because there are rare cases where I think people are never ready for this. Like maybe there’s just been too much trauma around their body or food or whatever. And that’s fine because the healthiest thing that people can be doing is just getting enough food, like bottom line, you know, eating enough and eating regularly and all of that. So they’re already nine tenths of the way there. This is like the cherry on the icing on the cake. You know what I mean?

Stephanie: how would you to the person listening who’s triggered by this and not ready for this? What would you say is the thing they can do to be ready for that healthiest conversation?

Dr. Jillian: Well, what that always pulls up for me is that they’re feeling pressure. So, something about us talking about this is making them feel pressured to do something. And so, just reminding themselves that they’re not pressured to do anything. They can always make choices. And if this feels like too much pressure, then what I tend to redirect people back toward is like neutralizing their relationship with food, feeding themselves right, just get back into that, like neutralizing their own. moral judgments about food, like there must be some in there for them still.

Dr. Jillian: Because like internalized sexism, internalized misogyny. Like you are now applying it to yourself. I mean, there’s also the possibility that people outside of you are applying it to you. Fine. Fair enough. But often, like if people are in a situation where this is interesting, but oh my God, I can’t.

Dr. Jillian: It’s like, where have you internalized? Stories about your own body, about food, about movement, is there a way for you to start challenging that, creating more and more safety within yourself, knowing that, you know, the outside world is always going to be putting weird pressures on us, awful pressures that we can’t necessarily mitigate, you know.

Dr. Jillian: but I feel like most often when people have that triggered reaction, it’s like we’re finding the wound. That’s what we’re finding. A trigger is the wound. So what healing needs to happen there? What do you need to happen so that you are, because this is interesting actually, because what I would hear from most women is that this quasi eating phase that they would find themselves in still didn’t fully feel like liberation or control or agency.

Dr. Jillian: Right. And so when we find the wound, it’s like, what do we need to heal up so that you can actually reclaim full empowerment, like at first it felt like empowerment and agency to say yes, but then eventually it starts to be like, but if I can’t also say no to something that really doesn’t feel good in my body and affects me negatively.

Dr. Jillian: That doesn’t really feel like freedom either, you know? So what do we need to heal up? that’s the wound. What do we need to heal up? Where do we need to create more safety? Where do you need to feel like you are fully in control of the decisions that you’re making? What thoughts? What behaviors? What understandings? What do we need to shift so that you can trust yourself to make the right choices for you?

Stephanie: What would you say to the person who’s listening to this? Been around intuitive eating for a while perhaps in the journey and she says, oh, that’s the way of doing intuitive eating So I don’t feel out of control

Dr. Jillian: because she’s feeling out of control right now Well, there’s a couple of different ways of looking at that. So the first is the other thing I really learned from Ellen Satter, which I didn’t get, what, because she does competent eating, which is a little different, right? We talked about this from intuitive eating, is that she does always provide some structure for the people that she works with.

Dr. Jillian: And I have found along the way through eating disorder work, as well as just disordered eating work, that there are some people who need some structure right out of the gate. they just cannot, there are some people who need no structure, like even the mere mention of structure. They’ve been, the other analogy I use for this, which might be helpful for your clientele, I’m not sure, is, Barbara Colaroso is a parenting expert, so she writes parenting and, she’d talk about the brick wall parent.

Dr. Jillian: Sometimes, you know, the dictator parent, the brick wall parent, right? They have the rules. They never bend them. They never consider the cut. That’s the dieter, right? The brick wall. That’s the plan. I’m sticking with it. I don’t care if I’m nearly passing out or I have a headache I’m sticking with. Then there’s the jellyfish parent often born from a brick wall parent who has no rules and no parameters and stare as late as you want.

Dr. Jillian: And Children don’t actually feel particularly safe in either of these households, because they don’t feel safe if they’re not heard or considered, and they don’t feel safe, there’s zero structure, and it feels like nobody’s caring for you, it’s like a 24 7 party, that doesn’t feel good to a kid either, and so what we’re trying to do as parents is become these, she calls them backbone parents, where there’s this flexible backbone, where there’s some structureAnd this is the analogy I use as well, like sometimes when we leave dieting, we become jellyfish and we’ve got to come back to this.

Dr. Jillian: So I’d say, actually you could experiment with it, but if it makes things worse, you’re doing it for the wrong reasons.

Stephanie: I’ll say this, meet the gray space, you have to have gone to the black and white space. Yeah, like to be able to be flexible, you have to know both and say, I don’t want this and I don’t want this.

Stephanie: And I want something here in the middle, but completely avoiding this, you’re missing out building safety for being in all part of life.

Dr. Jillian: I’m thinking about I’m seeing like. big splotches of paint, right? And you can’t make gray if you haven’t dipped your hand into the black and into the white. So, right. So yeah, like I’ll say yes and no’s are flip sides of the same coin.

Dr. Jillian: So if you can’t own a yes, you cannot properly own a no. they’re limited by the extent to which you can explore each one of those things. So I would agree with you. I love this, like taking these splotches of color. If you want to create gray, you know, you can’t just have been a dieter who’s been really reacting negatively to dieting and then think all of a sudden you can just be in gray.

Stephanie: You know? You have to have both. Yeah. And the exploration is born out of safety. For you to be able to explore the both side, you need to be able to have the safety within yourself from yourself to yourself and that’s built. By trusting yourself through every phase of eating. I love that. Is there anything else you would like people to know about Healthish? And where can they find out more about Healthish with you?

Dr. Jillian: Well, the link that I’ve given you is healthishnewsletter. com. And there’s like a two week series, which is kind of fun. Because some of it may be familiar. It’s it’s like breaking down sayings that I hate in the wellness culture, but it’s fun because some of them are really diety and some of them are not.

Dr. Jillian: Some of them are kind of anti diety and I’m like, well, let’s look at what I don’t love about this either, you know? so that’s a really great way to get introduced to the concept and to me and to find out more about this work. I don’t know if there’s anything else I want people to know, but just that.

Dr. Jillian: You have your podcast. Oh, yes. I have a podcast. Yeah. It’s 100 percent healthy. It used to be food, freedom, body love, but it’s 100 percent healthy ish. And Stephanie, you’re going to come be on as well in a couple of weeks. and there’s all kinds of great conversations there as well. as I’ve moved from where I was into this, I think there’s lots of interesting conversations around reintegrating wellness.

Dr. Jillian: In a less toxic way because there’s good stuff in there if we come at it with a really good critical thinking mind and we’re clear on what we value and how we want to feel in our bodies. There’s so much goodness in there.

Stephanie: Anybody that’s listening to this that have a medicalized condition or diagnosed condition, I will just say you can work with them. And often people from my world are not equipped for that. They need to refer out. So yeah, you’re the resource within intuitive eating health at every size for people with conditions.

Dr. Jillian: Yeah. Hello at healthyish. ca. there’s a dash healthy ish. ca. You can email me. Yes, we can work with it.

Stephanie: Yeah, and that’s the conversation we had on DM, like if I had the need for a health condition, you’d be the first person I would go to because I would know you have all these principles in this baseline. I wouldn’t be served what I don’t need to be served.

Dr. Jillian: No, you don’t need to be super restrictive to manage diabetes. You don’t need to be super restrictive to manage high cholesterol. that is not true. It backfires. It’s bad. But we can be intentional and thoughtful at the same time.

Stephanie: Yeah. Yeah. That was a beautiful conversation. I’m happy we had it. And I love to be able to introduce people to my listener who have a great view. It’s not dichotomy on the one side to the other is disability to be in the middle safely.

Dr. Jillian: Thank you. I love it. Thanks for having me.

 

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383-Imposter Complex with Tanya Geisler

383-Imposter Complex with Tanya Geisler

Imposter Complex with Tanya Geisler

Imposter Complex with Tanya Geisler is a gem of an episode.

What if you can rewrite the story about feelings of imposter syndrome?

What if you could turn the self-doubt moments into power?

What could you achieve then?

That is what me and Tanya are exploring in this magnificent interview.

Imposter Complex with Tanya Geisler

Tanya Geisler is a certified Leadership Coach, speaker, and writer who teaches leaders how to combat their Imposter Complex and lead with ICONIC impact so they can achieve their ultimate goals. 

Ready to tap into your iconic impact? Let’s do this!

What you’ll learn listening to this episode:

  • How to redefine imposter feelings in a way that will make you feel more powerful
  • How to own your authority and create powerful results
  • How Tanya guide her client towards iconic Impact

Mentioned in the show: 

Quiz: Is it you or your diet?

Undiet Your Life Program

Non-Diet Coaching Certification

Connect with our guest:

Quiz: What’s your ICONIC Identity?

Instagram – Tanya Geisler

Facebook – Tanya Geisler

Transcript

GBTF383

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Tanya: This is episode 383 of the beyond the food show. And today we’re going to redefine in such a powerful way, the imposter feelings that we are experiencing with an expert on the topic. Tanya Gisler. Stay tuned.

Hello, my sister. I am excited to bring this episode to you because this is one of those episodes where I’m bringing forward the people that are in my life, people that are guiding me, people that are coaching me, people that I follow on Instagram that inspired the work that I do. And one of them is Tanya gisler, she is a leadership coach, a speaker, and she teach very specifically on imposter complex. Now, you’ve heard me talk about imposter feelings and imposter syndrome for Years overwhelmed, the last 382 episode, and today we’re talking about impostor complex for a very specific reason. So one of the thing that I did when I entered Tanya’s World is I did one of those quiz, you know, that coaches like me and her have on their website to get to know the work of the coach and get to know if you’re the right fit to work with them. And she has this imposter complex quiz. And I couldn’t believe the result that I got out of her quiz. And since I had her on the podcast, I thought, You know what? Coach me on the result of your quiz that I did. And it’s going to blow your mind what came out of that coaching that she did for me on my own version of imposter complex.

And then we’re going to also talk about owning our authority and how to create what she calls iconic impact. Once we redefine what imposter feelings are and how we can think about it from a powerful way, we unfold our authority and our impact into the world. And I’m a firm believer that in order for us to live a fulfilling, happy life, we need to have impact in the world beyond ourself. We need to externally impact the world, not just internal in our own life. So how to find that impact so we can contribute to the world and create good around us and create our own happiness. So without any further ado, my team will roll in the interview with Tanya, which was such a treat to record for you.

Stephanie: Welcome to the show, Tanya.

Tanya: Oh, I’m delighted to be here. Delighted to be here.

Stephanie: I’m excited to have you on and have a conversation about the imposter complex, as you name it, and the imposter syndrome that I’ve been using the name with because I think there is. A lot of that in my community as women are working through claiming back their power by accepting themselves and their body and a lot of us have had the, what you call the side effect, right? The procrastination and the. Playing small in our life. So what do you define as the imposter complex?

Tanya: Okay, well, it’s impossible to not attribute the teachers. So, Pauline Clance and Susan Imes with a clinical psychologist. To coin the phrase imposter phenomenon back in 1978, so they were working with high functioning, high achieving women and academia and notice that these women, no matter how successful they were, seemed incapable of internalizing their success. So any success they had, they would chalk up to luck, fluke, timing, or having somehow managed to convince people they were smarter or more capable than they actually were. Ding, ding, ding, right? Their failures, they were more than able to internalize, but their successes, they would chalk it up to some external factor.

Tanya: So that’s really where it begins. And since probably 2010, I’ve been really deep in the analysis of understanding it from my lived experience, and definitely through the thousands of folks that I’ve worked with in the tens of thousands I’ve been speaking with since 2010, 2012, really specifically, I did a TEDx talk in 2012.

Tanya: And that’s really been the genesis of this work for me.

Stephanie: So the ability to internalize our

Tanya: success. Yeah. Or the inability to internalize our success. Right. Or like, to look at it from all the external factors. You also notice that I use imposter complex, not imposter syndrome. Yeah. And I know, listen, like, we all talk about it. SEO people are so annoyed with me consistently because people are searching imposter syndrome. however, syndrome suggests a clinical diagnosis. And so when we talk about a syndrome, any of our listeners who have any kind of diagnosed syndromes, you understand what it feels like when a medical term gets co opted. Right? So the idea, like shiny object syndrome. is not going to be found in the DSM IV, right? So, so I just, I would really like to be as precise about language as possible, right? Like, I’m always going to get something a little bit wrong, but this has just been something I’ve been aware of for a while. And I know folks that have, you know, diagnosed syndromes really do appreciate it. So it’s not a clinical diagnosis. It’s a phenomenon. It’s an experience. Listen, I’m not even sure what Carl or would have to say about me calling it a complex. But I also my friend and coach Desiree Attaway reminds me that it’s, it is complex, right?it is a complex, but it’s also very complex. And there’s a something about the double entendre that makes me feel like I like being reminded about the complexities of this lived experience.

Stephanie: I was listening to your TEDx talk before in preparation for this interview, and one thing that struck me right off the bat, as you said, man also experience imposter complex. Talk to me about that. How this shows up in women versus men differently.

Tanya: I mean, it’s complex, right? it’s very layered. So it really has a lot to do with how we have been conditioned. as you will have heard in the TEDx talk, I do talk about Valerie Young’s book, Secret Thoughts of Successful Women. She actually has since then said, I really wish I hadn’t have just called it just for women because men do experience it as well. The reality is, any time that we feel, Oh, I’ve got so many things I want to say, like, which door do I go in? Folks who experience the imposter complex have beautiful values of integrity, excellence, and proficiency. I always think that’s really good news. And usually we experience the imposter complex at the precipice of our expansion, at the precipice of something new, meaningful, important. We also know that the ways that we navigate the imposter complex or the ways that it gets it’s tripped up are conditioned in some ways. So, you know, we’ll talk about this. I’m sure a little bit more, but the 6 behavioral traits that it shows up with our comparison diminishment. People pleasing, leaky boundaries, procrastination, imperfectionism. And even though the conversation around this experience has been largely gendered, we also know that there are different ways in which we are conditioned. It’s females, males, And I also want to acknowledge, and I think it’s really important that I name for you and for our listeners that I approach this content in this context from my lens of experience as a white neurotypical able bodied woman of middle class means. Everything that I say, you know, other folks are going to experience it differently than I do.

Tanya: Right? So there’s a way in which, of course, we are all in the same shared space. We’re not having the same shared experience. So, you know, all generalizations are kind of off the table. That said, folks who have those beautiful values are going to experience it. folks who have been different Conditioned and socialized to be outside of the dominant culture are going to have a, more exacerbated sense of it.

Tanya: With permission, I talk about my husband, Greg. White, neurotypical dude of middle class means living in North America. He and I are both in agreement that the world that I live in has been designed for him. It just has. It just has. so for every concentric circle that we are distanced from Greg by gender, class, age, you know, we are going to have an exacerbated sense of it. That doesn’t mean that he doesn’t experience it. Trust me when I tell you that he experiences the imposter complex because he has those beautiful values. And as long as he continues to stretch himself, he’s going to experience it, but it gets exacerbated the further out we are from his lived experience.

Tanya: track.

Stephanie: Totally. I’ll present you something and you tell me what you think. So I was in the corporate world before choosing a career of impact, which is to help women with their bodies. I was in the corporate world in a world dominated by men in the retail industry. And I experienced imposter complex with the ultimate symptoms of panic attack, where like Collapsed on stage. And when I look back at that, it was clearly me feeling not good enough in the world of men. And one of the things that I did throughout my glass ceiling breaking career was trying to take less space by shrinking my body. Do you see that presentation of posture complex specifically with women and body size?

Tanya: Absolutely. Absolutely. Particularly in the space of literally diminishment, right? I would say the diminishment, let me just be very clear. If we were to, you and I sit across the table and take the blocks and say, which is more female conditioning is, which is more male conditioning. I would say 100%. Diminishment would have everything to do with female conditioning because it comes back to the language around. Don’t take too much space. Good girls don’t so on and so forth. Now, again, there’s a different context. I told you, I just came back from Norway. folks in the Norwegian culture, men and women all assigned, there is a literally a group of, there’s a list of rules called Janteloven, which are really about not thinking that you are any better than anybody else. Do not shine too bright, do not take up too much space. So that’s less about a male female. That’s more of a cultural thing. So it’s like, it makes, it matters where you are, but in the sort of the North American, shall we say that kind of that framework that definitely comes down to a quality of diminishment, not taking up too much space and then what do we do with the, we need to shrink and we start to get literally, we need to shrink. We need to just, yeah. I, and I feel that viscerally. And I have the same, I have a very similar background. I was in advertising. and, you know, I mean, I’d say there are a lot of women in advertising, but not at the very top, not where I want it to be. Right. so yes. and I remember thinking that there was a definite, there was going to be a definite link between my body size and how far I was going to be able to go or not.

Stephanie: It’s very interesting. The more I coach women, the more I find the same pattern and in my personal healing. Of accepting my body, what I realized recently. Is that I also heal the imposter complex and became more as what you call iconic, like impact into the world. Like, there’s a direct correlation between my body liberation and the impact that I have into the world.

Tanya: A hundred percent, a hundred percent. Oh my goodness. I, on my ready enough podcast. Where I talk to people who have experienced imposter complex at different, intersections than I do. I spoke with Hillary Canavia about fat phobia and how the, and how that relates inextricably with imposter complex. Absolutely could not agree.

Stephanie: So when you talk about moving to iconic impact, right? Yes. Can you define that more for me and the people listening?

Tanya: I will do my very best because it’s actually ever evolving. And I actually want to start through a different doorway if you don’t mind. And that’s because I want to talk about how, you know, the imposter complex, it wants to keep us out of action. It wants to have us down our capacity and it wants to keep us alone and isolated. So it does so by in a couple of very specific ways. we don’t want to feel like the imposter because it’s a terrible feeling. It’s a terrible feeling to feel like you don’t belong. and it’s part that’s, you know, very tribal essential need is to which is why we don’t, you know, we fear success as much as we fear failure because on either We are othered than the group.

Tanya: So we don’t want to feel like that. It feels terrible. So we’re going to hide out in specific behaviors, procrastination, perfectionism, diminishment, comparison, people pleasing, leaky boundaries. So we all know that those are bad and slapping bad. Just stop doing that. Just stopping people. Please. They’re stopping a perfection. Stop comparing yourself. Come on now. And you know, the self development industry. Let’s face it, it’s a 44 billion industry. That is a lot of money invested in making people feel like shit about themselves. So, it’s really, it behooves the industry to make people feel terrible. So, all the books about stop doing all of these things.

Tanya: So, I like to look at it a little bit differently and say what if we actually looked at those behaviors as the relational traits and attributes that they actually are. What if we looked at the fact that, yeah, your perfectionism means you deeply value excellence, that your people pleasing actually means that you value inclusivity, that you compare yourself because connection reigns supreme with you. You’re a procrastinator, or you procrastinate because you value discernment. You have potentially leaky boundaries because you are deeply generous with your resources, your time, your care, your compassion. Your diminishment simply has a lot to do with your value of humility. And so when I look at that through that lens, that we do these things that we’ve been made to feel so wrong and so bad about, the door for what becomes possible is open. and so I look at, you know, I talk about leadership and I’m a leadership coach. When I look at those values of excellence and, you know, humility and inclusivity and generosity and connection, my heart opens. that’s the kind of leader I intend to be. That’s the kind of leader I wanted to be. So leveraging the golden shadow that these identities hold, or these, these behavioral traits hold, where, that’s where it’s possible.

Stephanie: Ooh, a little bit of Francais. So, let’s give an example to people, because I did your quiz. I watched TEDx, and I did your quiz. Yep, yep, yep, yep. So the quiz will be in the show notes for people to do and invite everybody to do. I was shocked. I got the trait of healer

Tanya: and interesting. I know. Oh, well, that’s interesting.

Stephanie: So I’d be very interesting because like. Obviously, I’ve had a huge transformation in the last 11 years. So I’m like corporate high end, like vice president personality to who I am today. And then it says that my leaky

Tanya: boundaries. I have boundaries.

Stephanie: You sure you do. So talk to me about this result and what that could potentially mean.

Tanya: Oh, that’s so interesting. If I were being, as I’m being really honest, I would say if I’m being honest, I’m always being honest. as I’m being really honest, that is not what I would have Guests for you. I feel like you’ve got excellent boundaries. in fact, I wanted to acknowledge your boundaries, because I think we don’t have enough good models of excellent boundaries.

Tanya: And I do think that you have them. So it just makes me wonder when that shows up. You know, I feel like you have a very strong value of integrity. And I feel like you show up quite authentically. So a couple of the characteristics that I’m usually on the lookout for, how loyal people are being to their vision and how well they honor their word to themselves as much as to other people. So that may, that’s it, right? Sothis quiz is intended to open up a portal to, yeah, you might have a, you might have a handle on this, but where else? Yes,

Stephanie: that’s that’s exactly that’s exactly because I have the boundaries like I have in my business and personal. I’ve got excellent. They weren’t there before, but there are now, but I think it’s more how I honoring myself versus others. I think that’s the

Tanya: big piece here. Yes. Yeah, you will show up for absolutely anyone, everyone. I know, you know, we just met and I know that when you say you will do a thing, you are going to do that thing. and because of your very strong value of service. Purpose, right? you might even put my desires or wants in front of your own. So it’s probably not. Listen, for the most part, we’re not talking about pushing a boulder up a hill. We’re talking about little pebbles in the shoe. So that’s for you to pay attention to that little pebble in the shoe that says, okay, so am I honoring my word to myself as much as I honor to other people that matters.

Stephanie: Here’s how it shows up. It’s in my. The program of the service that I offer to the world and wanting to put out a product and offer that can fit everyone at a price that can fit everyone. And now I’m at the place where it’s taking too much time from me. Right? Like I’m making other people like my client as such a passion to help them. But it’s now beginning because the business is increasing that it’s becoming more hurtful to me. Like I haven’t figured out how to put boundaries there.

Tanya: Exactly. Which is exactly where the healer comes in because your job as a healer is to remember to put yourself in your own circle of care. That’s the job.

Stephanie: And sometimes the cost to do that is a difficult decision.

Tanya: huh. Yep. Not having to make some uncomfortable nose right that not to just that it’s not even a right fit but you’re you’re at an inflection point. And what got you here isn’t going to get you there and that requires even more discernment, and then recognizing so that it’s those boundaries and it’s always evolving, so you might have great boundaries compared to where you were before, but you just did a new at this new inflection point at this new level of your expansion. It’s going to require different from you.

Stephanie: AndI love how you talk about inflection that next level up.

Stephanie: Would you say that imposter complex? Because of our socialization and for me, particularly around body will show up at every level.

Tanya: Exactly. hope I don’t smug when I say that, but that’s almost by design, right? It’s sometimes when people say, I don’t experience the imposter complex. What I’ll say is. Hi, when was the last time you really swung out because that it is going to show up on the precipice of something new, something that matters, something that is important. So if you’re kind of going along and you’re just, you know, you’re doing the same old thing. No shame if that’s the case, but that you’re not going to experience imposter complex there. Right. Which is not a bad thing. Listen, I, you know, you see this artwork here. Yeah, I’ve got art all around the house that my husband and I have done together. I have no imposter complex around that. Care? I do not need to be proficient or excellent in my art. I just enjoy it. I don’t need to be, you know, completely proficient in my yoga practice. I enjoy it, but it’s going to show up in the places where I am stretching myself and the places that are deeply meaningful to me. And my parenting, my coaching, my speaking, my writing, that’s where it’s going to show up. And you know, I was in Nashville two weeks ago. And there was a, an experience, you know, October 7th, it just happened. And there was a lot of words not said about what was happening in the world. And I could just feel it. And I had been mentoring some people and I thought we need to acknowledge this. we need to acknowledge that we are really struggling. to find humanity right now, I’m not a meditation coach. I’m not, and I actually wasn’t even the keynote at this event. So I was, I keynoted it a couple of times. So it was actually the resident mentor. And I said, listen to the organizers. I need to, we need to take a couple of minutes here. So it led us in a meditation, silent moment, presencing our feelings, you know, just a quiet couple of moments. And I have not experienced the imposter complex in such a large way in a while, because that was a huge edge for me. And it was so interesting to be able to, because that, because I’m not that meditation, you know, I’m not a, I’m actually not a, you know, trauma informed coach. So the idea of taking on this role, cause there wasn’t anybody else to take it on that just rankled everything because it was a stretch and because it mattered so much. So when I stood there and I led these 200 people in this quiet moment, I mean, my hands were shaking in ways that. You know, I sat on it. I was on a stage the other day that the Nobel Peace Prize winners won. I didn’t feel the same level of imposter complex as I did when I was just trying to bleed a bit of quiet because it’s not and because it mattered so much. So sorry to belabor that point. But it’s at the edge of our expansion. And it actually had realized, it had been a while since I felt that shakiness that the impostor complex can bring. And again, I don’t think it’s a bad thing. I think it’s a reminder that we have this deep value of integrity and we want our work to matter and to do things that matter and that are have meaning.

Tanya: I

Stephanie: love how and I, because in coaching I do the same thing, like the bodily symptoms are just messages of realignment and how you speak about the imposter complex. That’s just. Realignment and guiding you to like, have those conversations and be the mentor that has those very difficult conversations that are, you’re not skilled for, you just know that you need to have it.

Tanya: I’d say, you know, at the top of almost every conversation or the top of every speaking keynote that I do, I’ll say, the reason this work matters to me is, how are we going to have the conversations that really matter? The risky conversations. If we can barely talk about the things that reside in the wheelhouse of our excellence.

Tanya: How can we talk about social justice if we can barely say, you know what, I’m a really great coach. Like, how are we going to do that if we can’t do the things that we have? We have incontrovertible proof that we are excellent at what we do, and yet we’re still going to have these conversations. We need to have the proficiency in doing the difficult things, and we need to be able to stretch.

Stephanie: Yeah, because as you’re saying that I’m reading my notes, owning your authority, which is really what the iconic impact is, which is really what imposter complex is trying to stem us away from is owning our authority. And as we evolve, our authority will always increase

Tanya: and evolve. Yeah. Absolutely. You know, there are a lot of things, I think, back to a lot of the things that, you know, I might have said, you know, when I was first starting out that I don’t, that I’ve evolved. I won’t say that I don’t believe them anymore, but they’ve evolved. So as long as we’re growing and evolving, we’re always going to be hitting these different places and it’s going to show up differently, at every level of our expansion, if we’re doing this anyway.

Stephanie: Yeah. And if we’re doing it in alignment to contribute and have an impact into the world.

Tanya: Yeah, absolutely. So we talked about the healer. So, you know, I’m so excited for folks to do the quiz. The quiz. You know, for me, I’m a host because I present with people pleasing. Stephanie, I want you to just really, really love me. I want to make sure that you and I feel really, really connected. Right? So there’s a way in which my people pleasing. you know, I’ve always been something of a people pleaser. I’m a Libran. I want people to like me. I, you know, that’s just the way it is. I also want to feel, have people feel very deeply included and seen and Comfortable in my presence, this makes me the host, that’s my iconic identity, that of the host, which means that when I’m at the front of that stage, I’m going to make you feel seen, known, included, part of it.

Tanya: I also put on a heck of a good party and a heck of a good retreat. So that’s helpful in my business to remember those things about myself. So the quiz is intended to help folks in their business as well. you know, those who are perfectionists. lean into your value of excellence, which shows that you know, really that CEO part of yourself really wants to be explored and expanded upon. So I’m excited for folks to try the quiz.

Stephanie: So, and we’re closing this conversation here, would you say the best place for people to get to know you more and know your work more is the quiz? And then I think so.

Tanya: I think so. You know, I’m a host. I want you to show up and receive something as soon as you get to meet me. So yeah, do the quiz. Absolutely. It’s tanyageisler. com slash quiz. And then of course, feel free to connect with me any place on social media. I’d love to hear what people came up with. And then just like yours, you know, they don’t necessarily always get the thing that you want, or think that it’s going to be, I mean, who doesn’t want to be the visionary? Who doesn’t want to be the CEO? Yeah. but there’s always some honey in there to be explored. So I hope that’s helpful for you as the healer.

Stephanie: Yeah. And what’s the podcast name again? Because people are listening

Tanya: to this on the podcast. Yeah. Ready enough. Ready enough with Tanya Geisler. So that’s where I stop. I’m going to speak with other folks who have experienced imposter complex at different intersections than I have, because I’m not the teacher for everyone on this particular topic, right? so that’s a great place to go. It’s been on hiatus because the last episode we did was with Deepa Iyer, who was talking about, Different roles inside of social change. And I thought can’t be talked. So we’re about to, yeah, we left it there. We’re like, that’s good night, Cleveland. so we’re rebooting it with just with Tanya Geisler. So that’s going to be happening soon, but by all means, the conversations that are over, in that series are really deep and meaningful. So thank you so much for having me here today.

Stephanie: Thank you for being here. And it’s, the first conversation, hopefully of many. Thank you.

Tanya: I love that. I love that. Thank you. Thank you.

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Imposter Complex with Tanya Geisler

Tanya: This is episode 383 of the beyond the food show. And today we’re going to redefine in such a powerful way, the imposter feelings that we are experiencing with an expert on the topic. Tanya Gisler. Stay tuned.

Hello, my sister. I am excited to bring this episode to you because this is one of those episodes where I’m bringing forward the people that are in my life, people that are guiding me, people that are coaching me, people that I follow on Instagram that inspired the work that I do. And one of them is Tanya gisler, she is a leadership coach, a speaker, and she teach very specifically on imposter complex. Now, you’ve heard me talk about imposter feelings and imposter syndrome for Years overwhelmed, the last 382 episode, and today we’re talking about impostor complex for a very specific reason. So one of the thing that I did when I entered Tanya’s World is I did one of those quiz, you know, that coaches like me and her have on their website to get to know the work of the coach and get to know if you’re the right fit to work with them. And she has this imposter complex quiz. And I couldn’t believe the result that I got out of her quiz. And since I had her on the podcast, I thought, You know what? Coach me on the result of your quiz that I did. And it’s going to blow your mind what came out of that coaching that she did for me on my own version of imposter complex.

And then we’re going to also talk about owning our authority and how to create what she calls iconic impact. Once we redefine what imposter feelings are and how we can think about it from a powerful way, we unfold our authority and our impact into the world. And I’m a firm believer that in order for us to live a fulfilling, happy life, we need to have impact in the world beyond ourself. We need to externally impact the world, not just internal in our own life. So how to find that impact so we can contribute to the world and create good around us and create our own happiness. So without any further ado, my team will roll in the interview with Tanya, which was such a treat to record for you.

Stephanie: Welcome to the show, Tanya.

Tanya: Oh, I’m delighted to be here. Delighted to be here.

Stephanie: I’m excited to have you on and have a conversation about the imposter complex, as you name it, and the imposter syndrome that I’ve been using the name with because I think there is. A lot of that in my community as women are working through claiming back their power by accepting themselves and their body and a lot of us have had the, what you call the side effect, right? The procrastination and the. Playing small in our life. So what do you define as the imposter complex?

Tanya: Okay, well, it’s impossible to not attribute the teachers. So, Pauline Clance and Susan Imes with a clinical psychologist. To coin the phrase imposter phenomenon back in 1978, so they were working with high functioning, high achieving women and academia and notice that these women, no matter how successful they were, seemed incapable of internalizing their success. So any success they had, they would chalk up to luck, fluke, timing, or having somehow managed to convince people they were smarter or more capable than they actually were. Ding, ding, ding, right? Their failures, they were more than able to internalize, but their successes, they would chalk it up to some external factor.

Tanya: So that’s really where it begins. And since probably 2010, I’ve been really deep in the analysis of understanding it from my lived experience, and definitely through the thousands of folks that I’ve worked with in the tens of thousands I’ve been speaking with since 2010, 2012, really specifically, I did a TEDx talk in 2012.

Tanya: And that’s really been the genesis of this work for me.

Stephanie: So the ability to internalize our

Tanya: success. Yeah. Or the inability to internalize our success. Right. Or like, to look at it from all the external factors. You also notice that I use imposter complex, not imposter syndrome. Yeah. And I know, listen, like, we all talk about it. SEO people are so annoyed with me consistently because people are searching imposter syndrome. however, syndrome suggests a clinical diagnosis. And so when we talk about a syndrome, any of our listeners who have any kind of diagnosed syndromes, you understand what it feels like when a medical term gets co opted. Right? So the idea, like shiny object syndrome. is not going to be found in the DSM IV, right? So, so I just, I would really like to be as precise about language as possible, right? Like, I’m always going to get something a little bit wrong, but this has just been something I’ve been aware of for a while. And I know folks that have, you know, diagnosed syndromes really do appreciate it. So it’s not a clinical diagnosis. It’s a phenomenon. It’s an experience. Listen, I’m not even sure what Carl or would have to say about me calling it a complex. But I also my friend and coach Desiree Attaway reminds me that it’s, it is complex, right?it is a complex, but it’s also very complex. And there’s a something about the double entendre that makes me feel like I like being reminded about the complexities of this lived experience.

Stephanie: I was listening to your TEDx talk before in preparation for this interview, and one thing that struck me right off the bat, as you said, man also experience imposter complex. Talk to me about that. How this shows up in women versus men differently.

Tanya: I mean, it’s complex, right? it’s very layered. So it really has a lot to do with how we have been conditioned. as you will have heard in the TEDx talk, I do talk about Valerie Young’s book, Secret Thoughts of Successful Women. She actually has since then said, I really wish I hadn’t have just called it just for women because men do experience it as well. The reality is, any time that we feel, Oh, I’ve got so many things I want to say, like, which door do I go in? Folks who experience the imposter complex have beautiful values of integrity, excellence, and proficiency. I always think that’s really good news. And usually we experience the imposter complex at the precipice of our expansion, at the precipice of something new, meaningful, important. We also know that the ways that we navigate the imposter complex or the ways that it gets it’s tripped up are conditioned in some ways. So, you know, we’ll talk about this. I’m sure a little bit more, but the 6 behavioral traits that it shows up with our comparison diminishment. People pleasing, leaky boundaries, procrastination, imperfectionism. And even though the conversation around this experience has been largely gendered, we also know that there are different ways in which we are conditioned. It’s females, males, And I also want to acknowledge, and I think it’s really important that I name for you and for our listeners that I approach this content in this context from my lens of experience as a white neurotypical able bodied woman of middle class means. Everything that I say, you know, other folks are going to experience it differently than I do.

Tanya: Right? So there’s a way in which, of course, we are all in the same shared space. We’re not having the same shared experience. So, you know, all generalizations are kind of off the table. That said, folks who have those beautiful values are going to experience it. folks who have been different Conditioned and socialized to be outside of the dominant culture are going to have a, more exacerbated sense of it.

Tanya: With permission, I talk about my husband, Greg. White, neurotypical dude of middle class means living in North America. He and I are both in agreement that the world that I live in has been designed for him. It just has. It just has. so for every concentric circle that we are distanced from Greg by gender, class, age, you know, we are going to have an exacerbated sense of it. That doesn’t mean that he doesn’t experience it. Trust me when I tell you that he experiences the imposter complex because he has those beautiful values. And as long as he continues to stretch himself, he’s going to experience it, but it gets exacerbated the further out we are from his lived experience.

Tanya: track.

Stephanie: Totally. I’ll present you something and you tell me what you think. So I was in the corporate world before choosing a career of impact, which is to help women with their bodies. I was in the corporate world in a world dominated by men in the retail industry. And I experienced imposter complex with the ultimate symptoms of panic attack, where like Collapsed on stage. And when I look back at that, it was clearly me feeling not good enough in the world of men. And one of the things that I did throughout my glass ceiling breaking career was trying to take less space by shrinking my body. Do you see that presentation of posture complex specifically with women and body size?

Tanya: Absolutely. Absolutely. Particularly in the space of literally diminishment, right? I would say the diminishment, let me just be very clear. If we were to, you and I sit across the table and take the blocks and say, which is more female conditioning is, which is more male conditioning. I would say 100%. Diminishment would have everything to do with female conditioning because it comes back to the language around. Don’t take too much space. Good girls don’t so on and so forth. Now, again, there’s a different context. I told you, I just came back from Norway. folks in the Norwegian culture, men and women all assigned, there is a literally a group of, there’s a list of rules called Janteloven, which are really about not thinking that you are any better than anybody else. Do not shine too bright, do not take up too much space. So that’s less about a male female. That’s more of a cultural thing. So it’s like, it makes, it matters where you are, but in the sort of the North American, shall we say that kind of that framework that definitely comes down to a quality of diminishment, not taking up too much space and then what do we do with the, we need to shrink and we start to get literally, we need to shrink. We need to just, yeah. I, and I feel that viscerally. And I have the same, I have a very similar background. I was in advertising. and, you know, I mean, I’d say there are a lot of women in advertising, but not at the very top, not where I want it to be. Right. so yes. and I remember thinking that there was a definite, there was going to be a definite link between my body size and how far I was going to be able to go or not.

Stephanie: It’s very interesting. The more I coach women, the more I find the same pattern and in my personal healing. Of accepting my body, what I realized recently. Is that I also heal the imposter complex and became more as what you call iconic, like impact into the world. Like, there’s a direct correlation between my body liberation and the impact that I have into the world.

Tanya: A hundred percent, a hundred percent. Oh my goodness. I, on my ready enough podcast. Where I talk to people who have experienced imposter complex at different, intersections than I do. I spoke with Hillary Canavia about fat phobia and how the, and how that relates inextricably with imposter complex. Absolutely could not agree.

Stephanie: So when you talk about moving to iconic impact, right? Yes. Can you define that more for me and the people listening?

Tanya: I will do my very best because it’s actually ever evolving. And I actually want to start through a different doorway if you don’t mind. And that’s because I want to talk about how, you know, the imposter complex, it wants to keep us out of action. It wants to have us down our capacity and it wants to keep us alone and isolated. So it does so by in a couple of very specific ways. we don’t want to feel like the imposter because it’s a terrible feeling. It’s a terrible feeling to feel like you don’t belong. and it’s part that’s, you know, very tribal essential need is to which is why we don’t, you know, we fear success as much as we fear failure because on either We are othered than the group.

Tanya: So we don’t want to feel like that. It feels terrible. So we’re going to hide out in specific behaviors, procrastination, perfectionism, diminishment, comparison, people pleasing, leaky boundaries. So we all know that those are bad and slapping bad. Just stop doing that. Just stopping people. Please. They’re stopping a perfection. Stop comparing yourself. Come on now. And you know, the self development industry. Let’s face it, it’s a 44 billion industry. That is a lot of money invested in making people feel like shit about themselves. So, it’s really, it behooves the industry to make people feel terrible. So, all the books about stop doing all of these things.

Tanya: So, I like to look at it a little bit differently and say what if we actually looked at those behaviors as the relational traits and attributes that they actually are. What if we looked at the fact that, yeah, your perfectionism means you deeply value excellence, that your people pleasing actually means that you value inclusivity, that you compare yourself because connection reigns supreme with you. You’re a procrastinator, or you procrastinate because you value discernment. You have potentially leaky boundaries because you are deeply generous with your resources, your time, your care, your compassion. Your diminishment simply has a lot to do with your value of humility. And so when I look at that through that lens, that we do these things that we’ve been made to feel so wrong and so bad about, the door for what becomes possible is open. and so I look at, you know, I talk about leadership and I’m a leadership coach. When I look at those values of excellence and, you know, humility and inclusivity and generosity and connection, my heart opens. that’s the kind of leader I intend to be. That’s the kind of leader I wanted to be. So leveraging the golden shadow that these identities hold, or these, these behavioral traits hold, where, that’s where it’s possible.

Stephanie: Ooh, a little bit of Francais. So, let’s give an example to people, because I did your quiz. I watched TEDx, and I did your quiz. Yep, yep, yep, yep. So the quiz will be in the show notes for people to do and invite everybody to do. I was shocked. I got the trait of healer

Tanya: and interesting. I know. Oh, well, that’s interesting.

Stephanie: So I’d be very interesting because like. Obviously, I’ve had a huge transformation in the last 11 years. So I’m like corporate high end, like vice president personality to who I am today. And then it says that my leaky

Tanya: boundaries. I have boundaries.

Stephanie: You sure you do. So talk to me about this result and what that could potentially mean.

Tanya: Oh, that’s so interesting. If I were being, as I’m being really honest, I would say if I’m being honest, I’m always being honest. as I’m being really honest, that is not what I would have Guests for you. I feel like you’ve got excellent boundaries. in fact, I wanted to acknowledge your boundaries, because I think we don’t have enough good models of excellent boundaries.

Tanya: And I do think that you have them. So it just makes me wonder when that shows up. You know, I feel like you have a very strong value of integrity. And I feel like you show up quite authentically. So a couple of the characteristics that I’m usually on the lookout for, how loyal people are being to their vision and how well they honor their word to themselves as much as to other people. So that may, that’s it, right? Sothis quiz is intended to open up a portal to, yeah, you might have a, you might have a handle on this, but where else? Yes,

Stephanie: that’s that’s exactly that’s exactly because I have the boundaries like I have in my business and personal. I’ve got excellent. They weren’t there before, but there are now, but I think it’s more how I honoring myself versus others. I think that’s the

Tanya: big piece here. Yes. Yeah, you will show up for absolutely anyone, everyone. I know, you know, we just met and I know that when you say you will do a thing, you are going to do that thing. and because of your very strong value of service. Purpose, right? you might even put my desires or wants in front of your own. So it’s probably not. Listen, for the most part, we’re not talking about pushing a boulder up a hill. We’re talking about little pebbles in the shoe. So that’s for you to pay attention to that little pebble in the shoe that says, okay, so am I honoring my word to myself as much as I honor to other people that matters.

Stephanie: Here’s how it shows up. It’s in my. The program of the service that I offer to the world and wanting to put out a product and offer that can fit everyone at a price that can fit everyone. And now I’m at the place where it’s taking too much time from me. Right? Like I’m making other people like my client as such a passion to help them. But it’s now beginning because the business is increasing that it’s becoming more hurtful to me. Like I haven’t figured out how to put boundaries there.

Tanya: Exactly. Which is exactly where the healer comes in because your job as a healer is to remember to put yourself in your own circle of care. That’s the job.

Stephanie: And sometimes the cost to do that is a difficult decision.

Tanya: huh. Yep. Not having to make some uncomfortable nose right that not to just that it’s not even a right fit but you’re you’re at an inflection point. And what got you here isn’t going to get you there and that requires even more discernment, and then recognizing so that it’s those boundaries and it’s always evolving, so you might have great boundaries compared to where you were before, but you just did a new at this new inflection point at this new level of your expansion. It’s going to require different from you.

Stephanie: AndI love how you talk about inflection that next level up.

Stephanie: Would you say that imposter complex? Because of our socialization and for me, particularly around body will show up at every level.

Tanya: Exactly. hope I don’t smug when I say that, but that’s almost by design, right? It’s sometimes when people say, I don’t experience the imposter complex. What I’ll say is. Hi, when was the last time you really swung out because that it is going to show up on the precipice of something new, something that matters, something that is important. So if you’re kind of going along and you’re just, you know, you’re doing the same old thing. No shame if that’s the case, but that you’re not going to experience imposter complex there. Right. Which is not a bad thing. Listen, I, you know, you see this artwork here. Yeah, I’ve got art all around the house that my husband and I have done together. I have no imposter complex around that. Care? I do not need to be proficient or excellent in my art. I just enjoy it. I don’t need to be, you know, completely proficient in my yoga practice. I enjoy it, but it’s going to show up in the places where I am stretching myself and the places that are deeply meaningful to me. And my parenting, my coaching, my speaking, my writing, that’s where it’s going to show up. And you know, I was in Nashville two weeks ago. And there was a, an experience, you know, October 7th, it just happened. And there was a lot of words not said about what was happening in the world. And I could just feel it. And I had been mentoring some people and I thought we need to acknowledge this. we need to acknowledge that we are really struggling. to find humanity right now, I’m not a meditation coach. I’m not, and I actually wasn’t even the keynote at this event. So I was, I keynoted it a couple of times. So it was actually the resident mentor. And I said, listen to the organizers. I need to, we need to take a couple of minutes here. So it led us in a meditation, silent moment, presencing our feelings, you know, just a quiet couple of moments. And I have not experienced the imposter complex in such a large way in a while, because that was a huge edge for me. And it was so interesting to be able to, because that, because I’m not that meditation, you know, I’m not a, I’m actually not a, you know, trauma informed coach. So the idea of taking on this role, cause there wasn’t anybody else to take it on that just rankled everything because it was a stretch and because it mattered so much. So when I stood there and I led these 200 people in this quiet moment, I mean, my hands were shaking in ways that. You know, I sat on it. I was on a stage the other day that the Nobel Peace Prize winners won. I didn’t feel the same level of imposter complex as I did when I was just trying to bleed a bit of quiet because it’s not and because it mattered so much. So sorry to belabor that point. But it’s at the edge of our expansion. And it actually had realized, it had been a while since I felt that shakiness that the impostor complex can bring. And again, I don’t think it’s a bad thing. I think it’s a reminder that we have this deep value of integrity and we want our work to matter and to do things that matter and that are have meaning.

Tanya: I

Stephanie: love how and I, because in coaching I do the same thing, like the bodily symptoms are just messages of realignment and how you speak about the imposter complex. That’s just. Realignment and guiding you to like, have those conversations and be the mentor that has those very difficult conversations that are, you’re not skilled for, you just know that you need to have it.

Tanya: I’d say, you know, at the top of almost every conversation or the top of every speaking keynote that I do, I’ll say, the reason this work matters to me is, how are we going to have the conversations that really matter? The risky conversations. If we can barely talk about the things that reside in the wheelhouse of our excellence.

Tanya: How can we talk about social justice if we can barely say, you know what, I’m a really great coach. Like, how are we going to do that if we can’t do the things that we have? We have incontrovertible proof that we are excellent at what we do, and yet we’re still going to have these conversations. We need to have the proficiency in doing the difficult things, and we need to be able to stretch.

Stephanie: Yeah, because as you’re saying that I’m reading my notes, owning your authority, which is really what the iconic impact is, which is really what imposter complex is trying to stem us away from is owning our authority. And as we evolve, our authority will always increase

Tanya: and evolve. Yeah. Absolutely. You know, there are a lot of things, I think, back to a lot of the things that, you know, I might have said, you know, when I was first starting out that I don’t, that I’ve evolved. I won’t say that I don’t believe them anymore, but they’ve evolved. So as long as we’re growing and evolving, we’re always going to be hitting these different places and it’s going to show up differently, at every level of our expansion, if we’re doing this anyway.

Stephanie: Yeah. And if we’re doing it in alignment to contribute and have an impact into the world.

Tanya: Yeah, absolutely. So we talked about the healer. So, you know, I’m so excited for folks to do the quiz. The quiz. You know, for me, I’m a host because I present with people pleasing. Stephanie, I want you to just really, really love me. I want to make sure that you and I feel really, really connected. Right? So there’s a way in which my people pleasing. you know, I’ve always been something of a people pleaser. I’m a Libran. I want people to like me. I, you know, that’s just the way it is. I also want to feel, have people feel very deeply included and seen and Comfortable in my presence, this makes me the host, that’s my iconic identity, that of the host, which means that when I’m at the front of that stage, I’m going to make you feel seen, known, included, part of it.

Tanya: I also put on a heck of a good party and a heck of a good retreat. So that’s helpful in my business to remember those things about myself. So the quiz is intended to help folks in their business as well. you know, those who are perfectionists. lean into your value of excellence, which shows that you know, really that CEO part of yourself really wants to be explored and expanded upon. So I’m excited for folks to try the quiz.

Stephanie: So, and we’re closing this conversation here, would you say the best place for people to get to know you more and know your work more is the quiz? And then I think so.

Tanya: I think so. You know, I’m a host. I want you to show up and receive something as soon as you get to meet me. So yeah, do the quiz. Absolutely. It’s tanyageisler. com slash quiz. And then of course, feel free to connect with me any place on social media. I’d love to hear what people came up with. And then just like yours, you know, they don’t necessarily always get the thing that you want, or think that it’s going to be, I mean, who doesn’t want to be the visionary? Who doesn’t want to be the CEO? Yeah. but there’s always some honey in there to be explored. So I hope that’s helpful for you as the healer.

Stephanie: Yeah. And what’s the podcast name again? Because people are listening

Tanya: to this on the podcast. Yeah. Ready enough. Ready enough with Tanya Geisler. So that’s where I stop. I’m going to speak with other folks who have experienced imposter complex at different intersections than I have, because I’m not the teacher for everyone on this particular topic, right? so that’s a great place to go. It’s been on hiatus because the last episode we did was with Deepa Iyer, who was talking about, Different roles inside of social change. And I thought can’t be talked. So we’re about to, yeah, we left it there. We’re like, that’s good night, Cleveland. so we’re rebooting it with just with Tanya Geisler. So that’s going to be happening soon, but by all means, the conversations that are over, in that series are really deep and meaningful. So thank you so much for having me here today.

Stephanie: Thank you for being here. And it’s, the first conversation, hopefully of many. Thank you.

Tanya: I love that. I love that. Thank you. Thank you.

 

 

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382-How to Become a Non-Diet Coach

382-How to Become a Non-Diet Coach

How to Become a Non-Diet Coach

Do you want to know how to Become a Non-Diet Coach?  

Get listening. This episode will give you  an inside view of the Non-Diet Coaching Certification and what happened in Stephanie’s most recent free training.

How to Become a Non-Diet Coach

This is a live audio recording of the training class – How to Become a Non-Diet Coach held on November 8th, 2023.  If you want to the visual of the class and see the slides and other visual cue, you can SIGN UP HERE for the video replay for free.

What you’ll learn listening to this episode on how to become a non-diet coach: 

✔ Gain clarity on what the Non-Diet approach to health for women is … and what is not.
✔ Four mistakes people make when coaching women with health and how to avoid them
✔ What makes the Non-Diet Coaching Certification unique and why you will stand out after graduating.
✔  Plus you’ll get to hear from a few of our incredible students on how their practice has been transformed by coaching through the lens of the Going Beyond The Food Methodology

Mentioned in the show: 

Non-Diet Coaching Certification

How to Become a Non-Diet Coach video recording

Client Assessment Forms

Transcript

Going Beyond The Food Ep382-How to Become a Non-Diet Coach

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This is episode 382 of they’re going to be on the food show. And today we’re going to talk about becoming a non diet coach or what to look for when you are ready to hire a coach that is going to help you with your health, food, and body image. Stay tuned.

Welcome back, my sister. Today’s episode is going to be the recording of a training class that I held in November 2023 titled how to become a non diet coach and I wanted to post it For you to listen because I think this is going to be a great tool for you To know what to look for when you are ready to hire a professional a provider, a coach to help you with your health, with your nutrition, with your relationship to food and body and even a life coach.

Because many of us as women are investing more and more in coaching, and we want to feel better. So if you’re listening to the going to be on the food podcast, obviously you don’t want to be served diet culture in your coaching, nor do you want to hire a coach that’s on the diet. Because trust me, that has a massive impact.

on how they’re going to coach you. Because if they’re in their own mind as your coach, your leader, your provider, they believe that being thinner is better. There is a lot of other belief. that are brewing on the bat that is going to permeate what they’re going to coach you, what they’re going to train you on, and how they can impact your life, quite honestly.

So no matter where you are on the spectrum, if you want to become a coach at some point, or that you’re not listening to this podcast to become a professional, but you want to hire someone, I believe this training that I did is going to serve. You all of you listening to this. So what we did is we stripped the audio from the recording to make it more palatable.

So you can listen to this training in your car while you’re walking. You don’t have to sit in front of a computer and watch a video recording now. If you want the video recording, it is available to you. You can go into the show notes and click how to become a non diet coach training class and that’s going to give you access to the video recording.

Now, I also mention in this, training free assessment form. Highly recommend that all of you, again, no matter where you are in the spectrum, if this is a profession for you or not, to download those free assessments. And to assess yourself life changing experience again, this is going to be included in the link in the show.

No. Okay, I’m going to stop talking and my team is going to roll in the audio recording of the training. Enjoy. Any question, email us at info at stephanie dozier dot com.

Welcome to How to Become a Certified Non Diet Coach. I am your host, Stephanie Boudier. I am a clinical nutritionist, a certified intuitive eating counselor, a coach, and a reformed dieter of 25 years. I live in a fat body as well because I spent 25 years dieting literally my life away and I hit rock bottom in my late 30s and for the last 11 years been undieting my life regarding and investigating all the things that I was taught around who I am, my body, my health, the way that I eat, what I can and can’t do in life, and I changed my career, and I am here now as a fat, non diet nutritionist helping women and men. Undiet their life and teaching professional how to switch from the traditional model of health nutrition to a place of non diet approach using a methodology that I created called going beyond the food, which I will talk to you about today in this class. I have founded something you may have heard of called Undiet Your Life Coaching Program. I have been running this program for the last six years. And from there, and the demand of professional and people wanting to help other women, I created Undiet Your Coaching Practice and the Undiet Coaching Certification which is a global training platform for professionals and coaches to learn to do their own healing and then learn how to move their practice to the non diet approach. I am looking forward to spending the next 60 minutes with you and teach you a revolutionary process to coach women when it comes to health, nutrition, And even life coaching.

This workshop is for you if you have your own journey with dieting, restrictive eating, disordered eating, body dissatisfaction, and you are on your healing journey and want to know how to help other women discover the same life after diet culture that you are now Discovering for yourself, this is for you if you are a. active provider, a nutritionist, a therapist, a social worker, a fitness professional, and you want to integrate the non diet coaching approach in your own practice. And perhaps you just graduated from a An education in a very traditional sense of health and nutrition. And you know that is not how you want to practice this workshop is for you. Now I’m going to have put a disclaimer here to say that this workshop is not for you if you coach or teach people how to intentionally lose weight and want to continue to promote intentional weight loss tactic. Now, many of us, me included, have taught, coached, consulted with people on dieting. That’s how I started my career as a clinical nutritionist for the first three years. And I’m very transparent with that.

But then I discovered that I was harming people and it came very abruptly realizing how I was causing my patients and client serious harm with the kind of care I was providing. And then I discovered back then intuitive eating and the non diet approach, which later came to be called the non diet approach. And I changed. So there’s a lot of us here that were at some point and perhaps you are right now. Coaching intentional weight loss, but you want to change if you want to change and you want to learn something different and you want to do different. This is for you, but if you’re not. then this is not the meeting for you.

During the workshop here, I am going to help you gain clarity on what is the non diet approach and what it’s not. The three mistakes I see people make when coaching women with health. And how to avoid those mistakes and what makes our non diet coaching certification unique and why you will stand out after graduating. Plus you will hear from a few of our incredible students who are graduate from our certification. So without any further ado, let’s get started. I’ve got 60 minutes of packed information for you. You probably with benefit from having a pen or a device. To take note, if this is your first encounter with the non diet approach, I guarantee that I’m going to knock your socks off. You ready for this? I’m going to move with shared screen because I have some pretty cool slides to share with you. And then I’m going to come back at the end if you are live with me for question, and if you want to submit your question at the bottom of the screen, you can use the Q& A box and I can also coach you live.

And if you’re watching this in a recording or on our podcast because we have two podcasts are going to be on the food show and on diet you’re coaching You can send your question to info at stephanie dode Z8 comm and it will be our pleasure Answer all of your questions. Okay, let’s start with a quiz because what else is better than a quiz Are you under the influence of diet culture? That’s what we’re going to try to determine with this quiz. So you’re going to need a pen, a paper, your iPad with your digital pen. I’m going to ask you five questions and you’re going to tabulate the number of yes and the number of no and then I’m going to give you a result after that for that quiz. You ready? Let’s do this. Okay, first question. Do you secretly feel, in your own head, without saying it, do you secretly feel that you are better than your client because you know more about health and about nutrition and about your field of specialty? Yes or no? There’s no in between. It’s yes or no. Question number two. Do you believe in the concept of some food are healthy, some food are unhealthy, or that there is a right way of eating and a wrong way of eating? Yes or no? Question number three. Are you, quote, watching, end of quote, your personal weight because you are afraid of gaining weight? Now, I’m going to be more precise on this question. If you are weighing yourself with a scale at home, if you are tracking, Macro intake or calorie intake, you are measuring body fat or measuring with the tape parts of your body, then the answer is yes. It’s an automatic yes answer to that question. So are you quote watching your weight because you are afraid of gaining weight?

Now, it could also be you are measuring the size of your clothes, and you know the answer for this. Like, are you personally concerned or afraid of gaining weight? That was question number three. Yes or no. Do you believe, question number four, do you believe that at some weight level or BMI level or health status, one must and need to lose weight?

Yes or no. Last question. Do you secretly, again, without saying it out loud, think that people that are, quote, fat or live in larger body are unhealthy and that perhaps it’s their fault? Yes or no? So tabulate the number of yes, tabulate the number of no, and I’m going to give you the scoring here. If you answered any of the five questions with a yes, You are under the influence of diaculture.

The more question you answered by yes, the more influence Diaculture has over you. So there’s a question now. What the heck is diaculture? Diaculture is a system of belief. It’s a set of custom. It’s a set of social messages. It’s a set of acceptable social behavior that place value and focus on body weight, body shape, body size.

over and above health and well being. It’s also a culture that worship thinness, and that also equates it, the thinness or the non thinness, to health and moral virtue. What does that mean? That means that you can spend your whole life thinking you’re irreparably broken just because you don’t look like the thin ideal. So I shared my story at the beginning. For me, that’s what I did for 25 years, right? I spent 25 years pursuing thinness because I thought I wasn’t good enough. And then later on, I pursued optimum health when I gave up on the weight thing, I fell over to wellness culture and then pursue optimum health, again, as a way of being good enough.

A third aspect of diet culture is that it promotes weight loss as a mean of attaining that higher status. Remember that The thinness is centered as moral health virtue and that the pathway, the tool to achieve that thinness is weight loss, either with restricting food, food group, overexercising, toning.

All the method known to lose the weight. Now, this means that you feel compelled to spend a massive amount of your resources, your personal resources, like time, energy, money, trying to shrink your body. Even though, even though the research is very clear that there is not one diet that is known to work long term. But you continue, like you feel like there’s just has to be a way. And in fact, for me, that’s why I… When my health collapse and my life collapse at the end of my thirties, I decided to go back to school to finish my health science degree and I got the nutrition degree. And to be honest, and I’ve shared this many time on my podcast.

I did that because. There had to be a way for me to control my weight and if nobody out there knew how to do it, because I had seen all the specialists and all the gurus and I tried all of that and the thing was working, I was going to find my unique way of weight. I was going to find the answer. That’s what this means, like being compelled to spend all of your resources. Aspect number four of culture is that it demonized certain way of eating while elevating others. This means that 20 years ago, everybody, gurus, science told you that low fat was the right way of eating. While today, Research, science, guru, everyone is telling you that the right way of eating is low carb.

This means that you’re forced to be constantly hypervigilant about your eating and ashamed of making certain food choices that actually you enjoy. distracts you from the pleasure associated with eating. In fact, it makes it shameful for you to have pleasure in eating. And the last aspect of diet culture that’s very important for all of us to understand as professionals, diet culture oppresses people who do not match the thin ideal and the supposed picture of health, which disproportionately arms women, femme, trans folks, people in larger body, people of color, people with disability, and has ripple effect on mental and physical health.

Now, that’s diaculture. Why is that a problem? I think it’s pretty clear why it’s a problem. But let’s take it a step further and answer that question. Why is it a problem? The problem is that diet culture blames women, in our case, because my methodology is specialized for women, it blames women, it blames their resources, their effort, as the problem.

You haven’t tried hard enough. You haven’t. Place enough of your resources of your time of your money. You haven’t invested enough In order for you to be thin so it blames the women their resources their effort Instead of the actual problem, which is the process And the system, and this is what we are changing in the non diet approach, the non diet approach, and the way that I’m teaching, it’s specialized for women.

We go under the principle that women, that their body, that their body weight are not the problem, that the problem is systemic. And that the solution is. Within a liberative process to unlearn socialization, we believe that women can be trusted with their eating and their health decision. Women’s body can be trusted with their ability to manage health, to manage weight, to manage food choices.

We believe in a weight neutral approach to health that focus on promoting health behavior, not weight number. And we believe ultimately in women’s agency over their body, their health, and their life. And in order for us to facilitate a non diet culture approach, we use cognitive behavioral coaching to unlearn the socialization from the system.

We use intuitive eating to change and alter eating behavior. We use a weight neutral approach to health. And we use body neutrality for body image. We live in a patriarchal society that is steeped in diet culture. Therefore, trusting our bodies, trusting ourselves as women, is a radical act. Claiming our autonomy and our agency.

As women in face of food, weight, health, the size of our body is an uncomfortable process. Very uncomfortable. And that’s what we are here for as non diet coaches. We support our client in the process of claiming their autonomy, their agency, and building up their skill set. That’s what we do as non diet coaches.

My program, the non diet coaching certification, our purpose is to reinvent how we coach women with their health. We believe as an organization that it can be easy for women to care for their body and their health. We believe that women can be trusted with their nutritional needs, and we are changing how coaching is facilitated by trusting women. In their health, focusing on developing health, promoting behavior from a place of ease using gentle nutrition practices. Women deserve to feel good in their body, no matter what their body size, their looks, their age, their abilities. Here’s are the three mistakes that I have observed over the last and a half years, almost five years now, training and coaching health professional provider coaches from All background.

These are the three most common errors that I see people make when coaching women around any topic with health, eating, self acceptance, confidence. And I want to teach you how to avoid them. What’s the solution to those mistakes? We’re going to get started with number one. Mistake number one, I kind of hinted at this at the beginning.

Co opting diaculture without knowing so we did that test. Remember, and I explained to you what diaculture is without you sharing or without you having to tell me it’s likely. I’ve been doing this presentation for many years. face to face and digitally. And, uh, everywhere I go with this presentation, people are shocked.

That they’re co opting diet culture until they met me like, oh, my God, like. Made me realize something that I didn’t know I had been doing for 10 years in practice. So it’s likely your situation right now. You just realized a few minutes ago that you were co opting diaculture without knowing. So it’s not your fault.

Because you’re here, so you’re likely self identified as a woman, therefore you are the target of diaculture just like your clients are. You are not an exception and you’re not supposed to know better as a professional person. You are likely entrenched in diet culture in your own personal life, so it’s absolutely no surprise that in your practice, it is the same thing.

Now, question I often get at this point is, okay, I understand diet culture. I understand that, although it’s not my fault, I’m co opting it and I want to change this, but Why is this even present? Where does this come from? And this is where I want to introduce you to fatphobia. Fatphobia is also named weight bias, weight stigma, sizeism, these are all meaning the same thing. It’s the fear of fatness. Now this fear of fatness also shows up as negative attitudes, stereotype, and oppression that people who are not in the. Thin ideal body people who live in a quote larger body than the thin ideal are exposed to. There is three form of fat phobia of fear of fatness that are present in our current society.

There’s the intrapersonal one, also known as internalized fat phobia. Which is the one that’s most common is when we have internalized the message that will go globally, fat is bad, fat is unhealthy. If you are fat, you are lazy, right? These messages we have internalized them and we are We are telling them to ourselves in our own head, secretly in our own mind.

We repeat the message we’ve heard. We shame ourselves. We criticize ourselves. We put ourselves down, right? We constantly think we are not enough. We have internalized these ideology, these biases, and we oppress ourselves. We become our own oppressor. The second form of fatphobia is interpersonal, which is How other in the world view us and respond to our body weight, shape, and size. So as a woman who lives in a larger body, I live approximately in a size 20, American size 20 body. I live that every day. If I enter a room with people that I don’t know, I can see it in people’s eyes. I can see people scanning me up and down. Right? And then I can almost see their thoughts in their brain.

Right? That’s what we mean by interpersonal. And sometimes it’s even vocal. Now that doesn’t happen a lot to me because I carry myself with a lot of confidence because of all the works that I’ve done. With my body image over the last eight years, but I hear it from my client all the time. People will comment on their body because they haven’t yet done the work.

They haven’t set up boundaries. They don’t carry themselves with confidence. People will comment on their body. So that’s interpersonal fat phobia. And then the last one is. Institutionalized fatphobia, which is part of your practice, is where we have structured our approaches as providers to reinforce the message of diet culture.

So when we sell intentional weight loss, when we sell meal plan, ways of eating. When we have weight loss program, we are institutionalizing within our practice a system that says to the world, being fat is terrible. Come here, I’m going to solve your problem of why you can’t get smaller because being fat is terrible.

Now I know as I’m saying that, it may be hard on some of you, and I fully recognize that. And I want you to practice self compassion right now, right? If you’re selling any kind of restrictive plan and plans that are associated with weight loss, and you’re hearing that like this whole last 15 minutes.

Could be a shock to you. So I want you to put your hands on your heart and I want you to Take a deep breath and say repeat after me. It’s completely normal for me to feel Shame now that I understand what diet culture is what fat phobia is It’s totally normal for me to feel triggered by what I’m hearing in this webinar.

It’s totally normal. And it’s totally normal because I was educated as a professional to be fat phobic. I was trained to deliver weight loss. So it’s completely normal that I’m doing exactly what I was trained in until today, until I hear this very important message.

Meet yourself with compassion. It’s not your fault. The purpose of this training is not to blame you, to shame you, but it’s to be that moment. In your life in your professional life where you are being thought a different approach.

I want to put it all together for you. Where does that culture come back at the root of it? All one of the bigger system that. takes away our autonomy and our agency as women is patriarchy. Patriarchy is the structural system by which society is built to favorize, to put in position of power people identified as men.

And in order to oppress women, To keep women doubting themselves and not claiming their power. About 200 years ago, we invited, we invented the beauty standard, diet culture, weight loss, gym supplements, diets, and that became a thing called diet culture. And combined with that, we Created on voluntarily the fear of fatness, what we know as fat phobia, and that is what drives in ourselves and in our client the desire to change our body to make it smaller, to make it look younger, to get cosmetic surgery, to put creams, makeup, right, all that stuff.

And that leads to dieting and dieting is. recognized by science to cause side effects such as binge restrict cycle, body dissatisfaction, poor mental and emotional health, low self esteem, and weight cycling. That’s the full picture here.

So when you did the quiz at the very beginning of this presentation, You didn’t know maybe that what diet culture is, or perhaps if you knew what diet culture is at the highest level, you didn’t understand the intricacy of it and how it plays in your profession. And again, it’s not your fault. That’s how you were trained.

And in fact, I’m going to go a step further to say this is why I created the non diet coaching certification, because there was Nothing out there training provider coaches and professional in an anti diet culture approach to help. Even me, when I was looking to get trained on cognitive behavioral coaching, I found one school that was teaching it.

And alongside to that, they were teaching a weight loss program. I couldn’t partake in a school that taught values. That were completely against everything that I believed in and lived in my own life. I had to go find an individual to teach me cognitive behavioral coaching who lived in the fat body herself because there was nothing out there.

That’s why I created the non diet coaching certification to offer a solution. And because I target women. professionals and providers that themselves work with women. I make my approach very unique to understand how bioculture very specifically affect you as you found out in that quiz and me. So what’s the solution to that mistake?

It’s to evaluate your personal socialization to diet culture and fat phobia and how it impacts how you give an interpretation to your field of specialty and how you teach for an example, health and nutrition and fitness to help you with that in the replay email. Or if you’re watching this on the replay page.

There will be at the bottom a button that says, download the tree assessment form. I want you to take those assessment. Those are our official assessments that we use in the non dietic coaching certification to assess our practitioner and that our practitioner uses with their client. I want you to do every one of those three assessments.

It’s gonna take you probably 20 minutes. And I want you to sit with that and I want you to think about how your personal relationship to food, to body and health impacts. Your clients and your patients, which leads me to mistake number two. Once you’ve done that Not healing your own relationship to food to body and to health is the second mistakes You cannot you will let me just say another way you will teach fat phobic program fat phobic Coaching fat phobic counseling session.

If you are fat phobic towards yourself, it’s just inevitable. In fact, it is so well known that there’s a research. There’s an international study that was conducted in 2012 in 14 countries. And the result were astonishing a whopping 77 percent of nutritional student felt that disordered eating behavior and even eating disorder were a concern among their peers.

Now, that study was done in nutritional university that teach dietetic.

Now, the reason behind why so many students of Dietetic present disordered eating behavior is complicated. It’s not just one thing, but for sure, their own entrenchment in diet culture as students, their own exposure, their own socialization to diet culture and the Theta ideal is a huge motivator. For them to first sign up and get accepted in a dietetic program and even for health coaches, I see that over and over.

It’s the same thing. The reason why there’s so many health coaches these days is the, these are the people with disordered eating behavior. That want to take it a step further and go get a certification or go get a degree in it. So there’s no choice for those individual if they don’t do their own personal work of liberating the way they think about food for themselves and their body and health that they will teach.

and counsel their client with diet culture influence. That’s what we do inside of the non diet coaching certification. We help you as an individual unlearn diet culture. You do your personal work. It’s a private container where you get to do your personal work. And that’s the testimonial you’re seeing on the screen here from one of our students who halfway through the program.

So this was a six month cohort, and she was at the three month mark. and we as a group had evaluated our relationship to food, our relationship to our body, and how it had changed over the three months of us doing our personal work. And that’s what she’s sharing, how different her personal life was no more binging, no more restriction, feeling relaxed for the first time in her life.

And we’re talking a lady that is in her early 40 here. For the first time in her life, she was relaxed around food. And she said, quote, with my body, I don’t hate it anymore. I actually have. Respect, gratitude and compassion for my body and I actually live with a high level of integrity with myself and my value in my practice.

She’s no longer putting on a show in front of her client, she’s actually embodied. That is the number one goal in a non diet coaching certification is that you become an embodied intuitive eater and embodied. Body neutral person and somebody who embody weight neutral health, because once that happens in your life, and I’m clicking my finger once that happened in your life, it will automatically impacts your client, you will not be able to sell weight loss, you will not be able to tell people to restrict food.

Because it will be in complete misalignment with how you live your life and your own personal value. That’s the most. Impactful part of the certification. And I know once I get you there with my program as a professional, it will change your practice right away. And I know by doing that, by impacting one of you as a professional, thousands of women will be impacted in years to come going through your practice.

The last mistake. Professional thinks that coaching health and nutrition is about intellectual knowledge. And that’s me. There’s no study, like air quote here, on that. This is me. I’ve been doing this gig for Eight years now, having spoken in front of people, have been hired by diabetics department in university to speak, and having people raise their hands, what is the solution to your clients struggling with food, study, research, meal plan, structure, discipline, right?

And people think that. And again, it’s not your fault, if you went through a nutrition degree like me, you were taught to do that. I became, through my training, an expert in doing meal plan, because that’s what I was told, right? That the way to change people is to give them facts and structure. But the truth is, the act of eating is not the outcome of intelligence and a possession of a Data point. It’s a behavior and behavior are the outcome of Emotion.

What? I know. I will get you there. Just a minute. So if it’s not intellectual knowledge, then what is it? Let’s take a client case. Let’s take a study case. A client’s come to you with one of those behavior and they want your help. Emotional eating on and off of exercise routine.

I’m struggling with cooking food at home. I’m struggling with getting enough sleep. I got a broad range here because I’ve got a broad range of people who are listening to this presentation here. What do you do? Before provider works with me, here’s what typically they do. They’ll send their client a study of the most recent article in hope to convince them with data points. They’ll offer a meal plan. They’ll offer deep breathing. Macro tracking. They’ll give them a lesson on increasing self discipline. And even these days, what I’m finding is Apps, they’ll get their clients to use an app and reporting all of their health metrics and they will follow up every day with their clients in hope to create compliance.

Does it work? Well, it’s like dieting. Diet works until they don’t work. That kind of health coaching works until it doesn’t. When the clients stop working with you, when the package ends, a year later, you’re no longer there to follow up on them, to unknowingly shame them for their lack of compliance. They don’t have the guru slapping them on the butt.

So what happened? The whole behavior comes back. That’s actually what happened to me. When I started my practice after graduation, I actually, I was so gung ho that I actually started my practice before graduating. I started doing health coaching, and by the time I graduated with my degree, like, My business was up and running the building was built the inventory was in the had a ton of supplements And like I was like in full practice mode and a year and a half later I tell the story on the podcast on dietary coaching year and a half later I started to see was a local business right back in the days Digital online world did not exist.

So it was a locally in Toronto, Canada, and I was going in a grocery store and I saw a former client of mine who had done a three month package with me, a year ago. And that client, when she saw me, she ran away from me. Like she literally changed aisle in the grocery store and kept avoiding me in the store not to see me.

And by coincidence, we ended up in the same aisle together 15 minutes later. And the first thing that came out of her mouth was, I’m so sorry, Stephanie, and she kept looking at the floor. I’m so sorry, Stephanie. I’m so ashamed. All the work we’ve done together is wiped out. Look at my cart. It’s full of junk food.

And then she went on and on. And that event marked me. And I went back home that day. And I’m like… There’s a problem, Stephanie. Like, the way you’re practicing nutrition, you’re creating in people what you so desperately want to change for yourself. And that’s when my practice changed. That’s when I started to take training and discovered intuitive eating and The non diet approach and coaching and I actually closed my practice in Toronto and went online and I changed the way I dealt with people.

So here’s, I have a question for you. Since we’re so trained and adept of science, right? What does the world of science have to tell us about human behavior, right? Eating behavior and health behavior and all of that. What does it have to tell us? Well, the world of Behavior is primarily the field of psychology and neuroscience and there’s something that some of you may be aware of. It’s called cognitive behavioral therapy. It’s a field of research. It’s a field of practice. Some of you may be training it. Whereby we have traced back how you men create the behavior that they have, and it’s a model of practice. It’s the gold standard of most human behavior change and transformation practice.

this is it. This is Stephanie’s simplified version. So we don’t teach therapy, we teach coaching. So me and other coaches have taken the Cognitive Behavioral Therapy and simplified it to make it a coaching model that explain behavior. So there’s a trigger, there’s an event, there’s a circumstance in people’s life that they have to respond to.

And How you men create the response to that circumstances by going in our brain and our data point and looking for the quote right way of making a decision or choice. So we look at our belief system, our past experience, our assumption, our various identities, and then. And this happens within milliseconds, and then poof, we have a thought, an opinion, a decision, a choice is made, and poof, it’s communicated to the rest of the body via the central nervous system, and it shows up in the body as sensation, gut feelings, emotion, and then we poof, have a behavior, a reaction to that emotion, the sensation in the body, right?

That’s how we create behavior. All the behavior we have is created under that same model. So when we’re thinking about what we do for a living and helping people change their behavior, are you using that model to help your clients with their behavior with food, with their body, with health, with their fitness? And the answer in most cases is no. Why? Because you’ve never been trained on this in school. I know I wasn’t, and all the professionals that come to my training were never thought this. So the solution is to learn a cognitive behavioral coaching model, and then apply it to the things you do. So I’ll take a classic example of eating behavior, the classic binge restrict cycle, right?

So we have the circumstance of eating, and then our data point in our brain are diet culture, right? Good and bad food, healthy and unhealthy. And so when we have to make a decision, the typical… Women in transgenic diet culture will have these thoughts that I’ve listed there. I can’t trust myself with food Carbohydrate or bad food.

I can’t eat too much. I’ll gain weight I don’t know what to eat how much and when to eat Let me go to my tracker and I’m like slapping my wrist because today’s where their tracker is on their watch and these thoughts create frustration Shame guilt restriction in the body and then women act from these feelings with overheating behavior, binge, rebellious eating, using food to cope with all those crazy emotion that are going on because of all much they’re thinking about their culture and that creates the binge restrict cycle.

That’s what I have illustrated here. That is the traditional model of how we as practitioners have been trained to coach women. We create the red box there is our intervention. We intervene after the emotion and we say, More willpower, more discipline, more structure, numb your emotion so that you override the rebellious behavior response to frustration.

You numb the frustration and instead using willpower and discipline, you eat the right way. And that’s where you act as the bearer of willpower and discipline and guru and they want to please you. But when you go away, and that red box is removed, the old behavior comes back in an instant. And that creates people who suppress their emotion, who limit their eating, who don’t know what to eat if you’re not there, if they don’t have a meal plan or calorie counter.

They become really good at obedience to rules and they have no agency, no autonomy, no self trust.

So what do we do instead?

What do we do as a non diet coach if we’re not going to do it the old way? What do we do in face of emotional eating on enough exercise routine? I don’t take time to cook and lack of sleep

So what do we do instead? So when the client comes to you with problems around emotional eating and on enough exercise routine and They want to take more time to sleep and to cook at home, our response is not to give them tactics and meal plan. Our response as non diet coaches is to investigate why to investigate our clients thoughts.

about eating behavior that creates the emotion that drives the behavior. So we first step, it’s a three step process, a cognitive behavioral coaching model. The very first step is we help uncover how they create the current behavior. can only help our client heal what we know how it’s created.

It’s the damn root cause model that we use in functional medicine. Right? We use that in functional medicine and we bypass it when it comes to eating behavior. It’s so interesting when you start looking at what is being taught and how professional practice. So step number one is we help our client uncover how they created the current behavior.

We show it to them. We say, okay, it’s because you believe that there’s good and bad food. You think you can’t be trusted with food because you’re fat and you believe that fat is unhealthy. And that makes you feel really anxious. And you use food you’re emotionally eating because you’ve so much anxiety created in you because of all those diet culture teaching.

And we show it to them and we say, do you want to change this? And we go to step number two, which is consent. We don’t tell people what to do. People decide. That’s the whole agency and autonomy angle of non diet coaching. They decide if they want to change their beliefs. And we tell them that you have to change your belief in your thinking around food in order to change the binge restricted behavior. And then if they say yes, and they consent into changing their belief, we help them find the new belief. We help them with intuitive eating and weight neutral approach and body neutrality. And we coach them to become the person who believes that all bodies are good bodies. And we coach them And that’s the biggest part of coaching is we help them form that new belief and we hold their hand while they’re struggling, believing that all bodies are good bodies.

And we support them in that process. That’s what non diet coaching is about.

vastly different from the traditional eating health and body coaching that we’ve all been trained for. So we work at the belief system instead of suppressing emotion. So when we work at that changing the belief what we do is we help people adopt new belief that creates new thoughts. Like, I can trust myself with food, I can trust my body to guide me with my food decision, I can trust my body with its weight, I’m innately worthy.

And that leads our client to, instead of feeling anxious around food, they feel at peace. They feel that the first time in their life, they can trust themselves. That their body is not their enemy, their body is their ally. People feel liberated. And now from there, from these new feelings and these new way of believing, they eat following their eating cues. They focus on health promoting behavior that have nothing to do with their weight. They learn to move their body, not to reshape their body. But to be stronger, right, they learn to process their emotion, they learn gentle nutrition, and that changes their eating pattern for the rest of their life. Just a quick note on the different framework that the non diet approach use, one of them being the intuitive eating framework.

The intuitive eating framework was created by Evelyn Triboli and Elise Roesch based on the field of research in eating disorder. That’s what we teach inside of the non diet We teach the intuitive eating framework. With the lens of the cognitive behavioral coaching model. So if you read the book of intuitive eating, or perhaps, or even an intuitive eating counselor, the difference is that we then teach you the cognitive behavioral model, and we teach you how to coach intuitive eating from the human behavior angle.

Instead of giving people, because I’ve trained so many intuitive eating counselor who thought that by giving people the 10 principle of intuitive eating or getting their client to read the book, that would change their behavior, but it’s not. We got to deal with the emotion, we got to deal with the belief system, and that’s the power of combining intuitive eating and cognitive behavioral.

This is why coaching health behavior according to the traditional model is never the solution and why the dieting industry is consistently growing because it doesn’t work. People keep coming back over and over with the same problem because it doesn’t address The human behavior portion, so why does the non diet coaching work?

Because it addressed the root cause of the behavior, the health behavior, the eating behavior, we address the thoughts and the belief and most often, it’s all linked to body image. If you coach women. If you counsel women with anything to do with food health and you do not address body image, body dissatisfaction, guaranteed that whatever transformation you’re getting is going to be temporary because women will go back to their whole behavior because of internalized fat phobia and externalized fat phobia.

This is why the non diet approach works is because we go at the root level. We move women from not enough to I am enough. I can trust myself with food. I can be safe in my body. It’s easy for me to take care of myself. We have the tool to create that belief and thought level changes in our client.

This is an extract of one of the class that I teach in coaching and I wanted to share it with you. When people change their belief, they see the world differently and their world change. When we change our self belief, our self image change. Therefore, how we engage with the world change. When we change how we see ourselves, we show up differently in the world. We feel different. We take action differently. And we create results that we never thought possible, simply because we could never see it before. That’s what we do as non diet coaches. Now I want to take a few minutes to walk you through our certification, the non diet coaching certification. And often people will ask me like, What is different about your certification versus a traditional health certification or intuitive eating counseling, right?

Difference is that coaching of the thought and the belief level because you do the work on yourself. You become more confident as an individual. You change your self image and you show up in your practice differently with a greater level of confidence and you can help your client with anything that has to do with thoughts and feelings.

related to food, related to health, and sometimes beyond the food. That’s why I created the Non Diet Coaching Certification to change how coaching is delivered for women because we, as women, deserve highly skilled coach that can help us change our socialization to diet culture. and change who we are. Our coaches understand that the non diet approach must be coached vastly differently from what we previously have been taught and certified in.

All the diet culture approaches in order to create lifelong sustainable results. Our coaches are courageously leading their client to go deeper, brush off the surface. We don’t do surface shit. They go deeper in their self awareness to develop a greater level of self trust at first with food. And beyond the food to create safety in all part of who they are.

Our coaches become leader in their community. We train people from all vast niches. We train people that are therapists specialized in. Women counseling. We train people in the fitness industry. We tried people in nutrition and those are coaches because they have changed their own belief system, their self belief about themselves go back in their community and their niches and their specialty and they become global leader thought leader who changed their own coaching spaces.

And then we teach you about business because we cannot sell the non diet approach in the same way that we used to sell our services with diet culture. So we teach you a new way of engaging with your business as well. As I mentioned earlier, in the replay email or around the video here, you will have our non diet assessment tools given to you for free.

And I urge you To do these assessments on yourself so you can get a clear picture of where you are in your socialization to diet culture personally And then how it interface with your clients So the non diet coaching certification Take a few minutes and i’m going to entertain any question at the end of that The non diet coaching certification is a six month container where I Personally coach you and Teach you how to first embody intuitive eating, body neutrality, and weight neutral health coaching, in yourself.

So I take you through all the module, we unpack what it is for you, we help you embody it in your own life, and then I teach you how to use it in your practice. That’s what I call the going to beyond the food method. It has 3 pre component to it at the center of it is a cognitive behavioral coaching model.

That’s what we learned. 1st, we spend 2 months learning. All that there is to learn about human behavior and emotions and thoughts and we teach you a whole bunch of tools to be able to coach yourself and then coach other human using cognitive behavioral coaching and then we take that framework and we apply it to intuitive eating.

And then we take the cognitive behavior, and then we apply it to self esteem and body image work. That’s the going to be on the food method. That’s what we teach you coach you and help you embody and then professionally serve other people using these methodology. So, our training curriculum is quite extensive.

We have two, two aspects of it. We have the professional training and the business training. In the professional training, we teach you, as I mentioned first, the cognitive behavioral coaching model. And if you choose, we can certify you and you can become a certified cognitive behavioral coach. Our certification process for, All of our certification is quite extensive.

We have exams and we have practice logs that we require from you and you have to attend all the life class with me and participate. So I can see your level of understanding and embodiment. And that’s the certification process. You can choose to do the certification without taking on the certification. We have a number of people who choose to do that for personal development, but if you’re a professional and you want to be certified, then you’re going to do the certification process in month 5 and 6 of the certification.

So, the 1st certification we offer is the training on cognitive behavioral coaching. We have a number of classes, I’m not going to read them all to you. It is all found in our syllabus. It’s a PDF document that will come along with the replay and you can also find that on our website. For each track of learning, I teach the vast majority of the class, they’re pre recorded, so you can watch them at your convenience, and then we have live calls to practice and answer any question you may have, or particular application in your specialty, but we also have guest expert teaching that fill in the blank of my own knowledge of my own specialty, so I brought, I think we’re having 12 different guest expert teacher that have created and curated content specifically for this certification.

and you have access to that in our website as well. I mentioned a few times that we go beyond the food. So, we have a number of resources in class and training on life coaching skills. Because you very quickly, when you start working at that level of thoughts and beliefs, you quickly start unpacking, needs for boundaries, needs for goal setting and like, all kinds of different things that we were never trained in.

So we give you teaching and training on that. And then we have our certification for eating culture. So we have the intuitive eating track. I teach it based on my learning from Evelyn Triboli and Elyse Roersch, but this is not the same thing as the intuitive eating, certified counselor training.

That’s a different thing. For me, it is more about how to use the cognitive behavioral coaching in the 10 principles of intuitive eating. Plus, we have a number of guest experts in that field as well that can come and supplement. all the angle of eating that, varies. so that’s part of our eating certification.

Then we have our body image certification, which I teach you the framework I created called the Body Neutrality Framework. Plus, I have supplemental guest expert teacher that come in and teach different aspect that I cannot teach. so that’s a body image code. This is a sample. Of our guests expert teacher, you can find a full listing on our website and then we also have a module on how to do business ethically with integrity.

As I mentioned, we cannot sell our services that are anti diet culture, that are anti oppression in the same way that diet culture is sold. So we have to rethink the way we do business. So we help you with that as well. We have a five step process to rethink your business or to create a brand new business. From the get go, we help you create an aligned business strategy. We help you create a marketing message, a compelling offer, how to do marketing authentically with integrity, and then we help you sell with integrity. as well. So the big question for you here today is how can you learn the non diet approach on your own and implement it in your practice?

Can you do it on your own? Absolutely you can. And there’s a ton of resources for you to do it on your own. But there’s also choice number two, which is the option of skipping all the research and the reading all the books and listening to all the podcasts and come to a place where all the resource have been pulled together for you that you’ve been given step by step process.

And that is the non diet coaching certification. So I’d like to share with you. At this point, before the video starts, a few thoughts, some videos and some thoughts that our former student, people who’ve graduated with us, I asked them to share their thoughts about our program with you. That’s the video.

I’m going to share with you right now. Okay. So it’s going to be a few minutes and then I’ll come back after the video to answer all of your questions. So these are all graduate from. Okay. Our program, which is now entering its fourth and a half year, so we’re going to be enrolling at the time of recording this, our tenth cohort.

I once was asked if you could spend five minutes with someone who would tell you something that would change your world, but it would cost you a million dollars. Would you do it? Hi, I’m Jolynn Martin. I’m Jolynn Martin Fitness.

Start with that analogy because I found the value for my money within the first two weeks of Stephanie’s program. Stephanie starts with mindset work and challenges you to discover the limiting beliefs that have been holding you back in your life and in your business up to this point. Not only does Stephanie challenge you, with Your mindset with food and body image, but also within your capability in your business.

Stephanie sprinkles her magic on everything, and I mean everything. So what I love the most about working with Stephanie is just her no fuss approach to nutrition, especially a non diet, approach to health and wellness. She is very passionate and committed to seeing you succeed as a client. Before I joined the mentorship program, I was It’s clear that I wanted a non diet approach to nutrition and wellness as a framework for my business.

I just wasn’t clear how to get that foundation as well as how to apply what I had learned through some of the non diet trainings that I’ve had already. And this is where the mentorship program came in and was very helpful as well. I was able to manage my mindset as a business owner and also gain friendships with other women.

Who share the same values that I do. Hey there, friends of Stephanie. My name is Kim Hagel from Radiant Vitality Wellness, and I am a member of Stephanie’s Non Diet Pro Mentorship Program. And I just came on here to tell you how happy and thrilled I am that I said yes to taking this program. I am a personal trainer and holistic nutritionist.

And, in my line of work, I see a lot of ways that the diet industry… influences the fitness industry and how that really fills my clients. So I was looking for a program that would help me to help them make peace with exercise and feel confident in the body that they have. So I signed up for Stephanie’s program, looking for something that would give me the knowledge base and the business training that I would need to create a signature coaching program to help people heal their relationship with exercise in their body.

And, my expectations have been. Far exceeded. I’ve been blown away. the knowledge base and confidence that I have working with clients now has grown because of the high quality education that Stephanie’s provided. And I know that the things that I’m teaching are changing lives and it feels so amazing.

The moment was, just deciding that I was really just making a decision for myself that, this is something I know I can do. And when I decided to make that investment. there really was like no turning back. and I think also just realizing the food freedom and the overall freedom and joy that I started to feel in my life, I knew that I was far enough ahead that I can now share this with other women.

She’s just embrace your afraidness. It just tells you something that you really want something. And I know it’s scary, but it’s just a discomfort and you have just learned to have all the emotions. And that’s something so beautiful that you can give to your clients. So if you can learn to. Go with the fear and not struggle with it.

It’s so beautiful that you can give your clients. Talk about what you’ve done for me, because I feel like had I met you and started consulting with you three years ago, number one, I would have saved so much money. And number two, I would have been so much farther ahead in my business. I have, I’ve worked with so many people who said they knew what they were doing.

You’re the only person I can say I’ve worked with who really knows what she’s doing and I mean I’ve gotten referrals from you know, I didn’t dig them out of a yellow pages they came well highly recommended, but they don’t have the business acumen the incisive knowledge about this particular business and the ability to Function in the online space that you’ve had so I have felt My confidence coming back and working with you and my hope that my business will take off and working with you. And I just can’t thank you enough, Stephanie, honestly.

So I’m going to stop sharing my screen, and I’m going to take questions. I hope that some of you are listening to this will join us in the next cohort of the non diet coaching certification. And if you choose to do that on your own, please use our podcast, the going to be on the food, the undieter coaching practice as resources. And perhaps some of the training classes, the smaller training classes that we have. but I know many of you, I will see you in the future.

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381-Men, Intuitive Eating & body Image with Jeff Ash

381-Men, Intuitive Eating & body Image with Jeff Ash

Men Intuitive eating & body image

Men, Intuitive eating & Body image with Jeff Ash is a resource I have been waiting to create for a long time. 

How does diet culture impact men? How is it different?

Men, Intuitive eating & Body image

A powerful conversation about the non-diet approach with a man for men.

What you’ll learn listening to this episode:

  • How does body image struggle present in men
  • Disorder eating behaviors & men 
  • How to have a conversation with a men partner about your own journey undieting your life

Mentioned in the show: 

Undiet Your Life Program

Non-Diet Coaching Certification

Connect with our guest:

Intuitive Eating: Help Without Harming Free Webinar

Instagram – Jeff Ash

Website – Jeff Ash

Transcript

Men, Intuitive Eating & body Image

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Jeff: This is episode 381 of the beyond the food show. And today we’re going to talk men, intuitive eating and body image with a man, Jeff Ash, stay tuned.

Welcome back my sister to the podcast. I’m so excited about this episode. This is a resource that I’ve been wanting to create for a long time. M V The expert to create that with me had not yet found and I found him. His name is Jeff Hash. Jeff is a nutritionist and someone who specialize in delivering coaching for intuitive eating and body image for men exclusively.

So this podcast was recorded from two different perspectives. Number one, How does eating behavior and body image challenges presents itself in men and how it differs from women, but also on how to have the conversation with your men partner. You’re a man ally in your life around why food is a struggle for you, why you’re struggling with body image.

And Jeff even has a resource that he created for men that have partners. Women partners who are going into the journey of the non-ED approach. This is everything I’ve been wanting to create for you. So I invite you first to listen to this podcast as a woman who has a friend, perhaps a partner. That is self identify as a man in that whole context of anti diaculture.

And if you think this is good and your partner wants to support you better, get him to listen to this podcast and perhaps even watch the masterclass, the workshop that Jeff taught specifically for men. You’re going to enjoy that podcast. I don’t have much more to say. I just want to roll out this interview for you because I think this is going to be a tool that will have great impact for many of you to my team, let’s roll in the interview with Jeff.

Stephanie: Welcome to the show, Jeff.

Jeff: Hey, great to be here.

Stephanie: it’s an honor to have you. And I have been dreaming about this podcast for years of having someone to discuss these topics with from another perspective, so we’re going to talk about food and body image and the relationship in a men, women or men relationship of one partner going on the journey of the non diet approach and intuitive eating and so forth. But here’s my first question, obviously, my world is filled with people self identified as women and we understand socialization and diaculture particularly affect women. However, I’m pretty sure it affects Men’s as well.

Jeff: Yeah, it really does. it’s different in the way that it does because men aren’t as objectified in the same sense that women are typically. I think that’s a big difference, but there’s still a lot of pressure for men to meet a certain ideal, a certain beauty standard that there is for men, especially these days. but also, so not necessarily thin and lean, but lean and muscular. So you’ll often hear guys joke with each other, you know, about, about their body size and, oh, do you even lift bro? And that kind of a mentality where you have a person who could be in phenomenal, incredible shape, physical condition, and yet they’re given a hard time because their physical condition doesn’t lend itself to showing big muscles and that kind of a thing. And so there is that aspect of it. And so, you know, so a lot of men will suffer from body dysmorphia or body dysmorphic type behaviors and beliefs, often it’s kind of classified as what we call muscle dysmorphia. So it’s specifically related to the muscular, aspect of their body. And there’s even a term that’s been coined for eating in a way to support being big and muscular called bigorexia. I don’t know if you’ve ever heard that term.

Stephanie: No, but I love all those terms. Throw them at me. I’m getting an education here.

Jeff: Yeah. So, you know, so you have those kinds of things where for women that are trying to stay lean and thin and meet up to society’s standards of size, men may engage in certain disorder eating behaviors for the same purpose of gaining muscle or, you know, they restrict in certain ways to stay lean so that their muscular definition is visible and that kind of a thing.

Jeff: And so, yeah, so there’s, so it’s different, definitely, but there is still that aspect. And so I guess 1 of the things I see that’s. Noticeably different is that unless a man is significantly larger, there isn’t quite as much pressure on them to just eat as little as possible. You know, I think that a lot of women have experienced that it’s like, little as you can tolerate. In fact, I’ve even had nutrition professionals in some of my training say that is a good approach to take is diet people on as little food as they’re able to tolerate that kind of mentality. And, whereas I think that guys are often pushed more in the supplement range and the hardcore training and still very problematic patterns, but it’s, but it looks a little different. So

Stephanie: I’ve had in my early, like, we’re going back 9 years ago in my first 3 years of practice, I was attached to a gym. So I had a lot of, body builders that presented with binge eating pattern. Because of this, like, they had to eat 6 or 7 times a day to like, eat enough to gain the muscle and they developed binge eating because of the requirement of the competition they were doing.

Jeff: Yeah, and where I see that most problematic is in this bulk and cut. Yes. Kind of phased training where I’m in a bulking phase. So I eat as much as I can, you know, people are talking about in a lot of the groups, cause I still, even though I’m a completely non diet,coach now in, in all of my work with my clients, I still hang out in some of these fitness groups where it very much is your typical kind of fitness advice, because I do like to offer in another perspective and hopefully open some people’s eyes to just something else out there. And then also just to kind of keep my finger on the pulse of what’s the conversations that are going on. So I can better address men when they come to me or in my content and that kind of a thing. But yeah, I see that, that all the time that what I see with the binge thing is the bulk and cut phase kind of a thing, but also the cheat day mentality.

Jeff: And it’s almost a place of pride. Yeah. To say how much they ate. And it reminds me of one of the, one of the conversations in one of these groups, one of the guys was training and he was kind of proud of the fact that he was had started training for a show and that he had his own bodybuilding coach and, you know, all of those kinds of things and kind of talking about it.

Jeff: And so they’re excited to share how cool that was. And he was in very much a sense bragging about the fact that his coach made him extremely meticulous on his diet tracking during the week, but he had a cheat meal every week where I mean, the guy basically prescribed binge eating problems for this guy because he had 1 hour that was his cheat meal. One hour to eat as much as he possibly could. Anything he wanted, as much as he wanted. But he had to, and had to be in that hour. So it was literally, here, I am prescribing to you to have a binge eating episode. And he did. He would eat multiple Big Macs, multiple large fries, milkshakes like, to the point of nausea. And he was bragging about, you know, how much he could kind of get in. And that, it was just very… Oh, it just broke my heart that this person was being coached to do this by someone who’s supposed to be a professional.

Stephanie: So, patterns of body image presents itself a lot on those, like, I want to call them sports or training area, but does it also affect, I’m going to use air quote here, like the term dad bods. Yes. So body image is beyond just the trainer that people who train, am I correct?

Jeff: Oh, yeah. Yeah, for sure. And that’s one of the problems because one of the things that I, if somebody wants to participate in bodybuilding and they know what it involves, go for it. If you want to do that and you know that it’s going to bring on these disordered patterns at different times. And you’ve chosen to do that because you enjoy it more power to you. That’s fine. The problem is that I would say the bulk, the vast majority of the advice given to plain old guys a guy with 3 kids works a job. Married, you know, lives in the suburbs, you know, whatever, just has a little bit of extra time during the week, but it’s really pretty drained doing all the family, the dad things they’re often given the same advice that a bodybuilding coach would give to a bodybuilder who’s prepping for shows. And so they’re encouraged to engage in these kinds of behaviors and they’re often. There’s debates over what level of body fat percentage is quote healthy or sustainable. And at what level of body fat can you see your ab development? And some people are like, Oh, it’s at 12 percent and other people, Oh, it’s at 14. And then there’s discussions about what’s the best way to measure body fat percentage. That’s the most accurate. And, you know, I’ll often present questions like, well, why do you need to know this? what will that tell you? And then they’re like, Oh, I just want to know. And so there’s a lot of this stuff that gets in there.

Jeff: That really distorts a lot of the thinking for the dad who literally their goals are like, often I’ll see in these groups, somebody will say, what’s the best advice to lose weight and do this and that. And they’ll get all kinds of bodybuilding advice. And then my question is, what do you want to do? What’s your goal? I just want to be healthy for my kids. And I want to be around when I’m 70 years old. And yeah, I don’t want to die young. Okay. This is not the way to do that. A bodybuilding lifestyle is not the way to do that. Here are some things that you can do and what’s interesting is most of them are exactly what we teach our clients when we’re teaching them a non diet, intuitive eating, weight neutral approach to health.

Jeff: Movement, eating according to the cues that your body is giving you, paying attention to those things. If your body is telling you something, go to the doctor and get it checked out if you have the means to do that. And all those kinds of health promoting behaviors.

Stephanie: So it goes beyond the Jim Fitzpah world, but the type of advice, what I’m hearing for you is the type of advice, the way the body looks. It may be different for the men world, like the male type of world, but it creates the same symptoms as we have in women’s world, which is distorted eating behavior and body hatred.

Jeff: Yeah. Yeah. It really does. And what I often have said is that it presents itself a little bit differently, but when we start to, when I work with my guys one on one and we start to explore the clean your plate club issues and the late night.

Jeff: Eating where they find themselves burying in the pantry and eating in the middle of the night and all of those typical things that we deal with women, the emotional eating, when we unpack it all goes back to the same underlying issues that restriction, not. Yeah, inconsistent eating patterns that and instead of just saying, hey, let’s look at some of these underlying root causes. Let’s just put the weight loss stuff on the back burner. I know you want that. But you know what? That’s not even the problem. That’s if it’s. If you are actually the body size, it’s not appropriate for your body, whether it’s too big or too small. that’s not the problem. That’s the symptom of something else going on.

Jeff: And so try and get them to say, I’m not telling you that you’re at the right size or not. I don’t know. We won’t know. But what I could tell is you’ve explained to me some things that are problematic and let’s look at those and then let’s just see what happens. Let’s let your body do what it’s going to do. And. Okay. You know, you’ve clearly have these issues with binge eating or emotional eating or that kind of thing. So why are we trying to throw you on a weight loss diet to address body size? Let’s address these underlying issues that you even know in your heart are the things that are driving.

Jeff: The health issues that maybe you’re struggling with. And so, again, it comes back at every woman that I’ve worked with. Cause I used to work with men and women, and now I pretty much just work with men. I’ve kind of focused my attention that way. but they’ll, yeah, we ultimately, we get back to the same things.

Jeff: So yeah, it’s interesting.

Stephanie: So I was going to ask this, so I’m imagining someone listening to my podcast right now, who’s a woman in a. Woman to man relationship, or even a man in a man to man relationship. And they’re like, how do I approach the topic with my partner who doesn’t know anything about intuitive eating and body image? Like, how do I talk about this? Yeah. Do you have any advice on that?

Jeff: Yeah. I mean, that’s a good question. And I actually have a webinar. It’s a free webinar that is available for their partners. So if they. this can be a great tool to say, Hey, you know what? I’m having a hard time articulating this. Cause usually when they start asking the questions, it’s because for whatever reason, they’re not on the same page and they’re feeling frustrated, they’re feeling unsupported or they’re just like, every time I talk PR my partner is kind of like. Nice. So this is your new diet, right?

Jeff: So cool. I’m here for you, whatever you need, let me know. But yeah, you know, cause they’re used to them being on and off different diets. but I do have that webinar. And basically what it’s designed to do is for partners to be able to send somebody there and say, Hey, If you know, you said you want to support me, here’s something

Jeff: And it’s really aimed at men because it’s me talking. It’s my male face up on the screen talking. And so while, you know, it’s great for guys to send to their, female partners, because I’ve had guys whose wives are, you know, the role is flip flop there. I got totally on board with intuitive eating and their wife is hung up in the diet mentality. It’s great. but anyway, that outlines it outlines the principles of intuitive eating what it is what it’s not just what Hayes is what it’s not just real briefly kind of, hey, this clear up some of those misconceptions that people often have. And so that can be a great tool. and I guess the reason I mentioned that here is 1 of the things that I think can be helpful when we are trying to figure out what to say to our.

Jeff: How to bring this up how to start talking to them is understand that we’re often not our partners. best, the best person to engage our partner in an area that they are uncomfortable with. You know, that’s why I, you know, many spouses and partners go to a therapist. It’s not that they can’t talk to their spouse or their partner. It’s because. There’s certain things that are best addressed and dealt with from someone else. You know, you find it’s not uncommon for somebody to say, oh, my gosh, I heard something today and it was so powerful. And it just really got me. And then you’re like. Haven’t I told you that five times and suddenly some rando on the internet says something in it.

Jeff: You’re just like cuts right to the heart. It’s like, because there’s often that other baggage that, that comes along with it, whether you know, good or bad, it’s just, there’s things there that interfere with that. And the dieting is an example. They’ve seen you do 10 different diets and to them, this is just another diet.

Stephanie: Yeah,and also find that the body image, like women on my world have a lot of discomfort in their body and talking about that with their partner. Is difficult, because I don’t know if they’ve been hiding it. They’ve been there’s many ways that it’s expressed in the relationship, but it’s really uncomfortable to have that conversation with your partner that you’re uncomfortable in your body. Any advice on that or any.

Jeff: Yeah. I mean, it’s so individual because so many people have, it depends on what’s driving that. You know, we have the, your standard run, I’ll just call it run of the mill society’s standards of beauty that Every woman, I don’t know how any woman can escape it, but every woman is going to deal with that. So you have that where there is that general pressure. And so they’re always, and there may be the sense feeling inadequate or that their body is size, but. All it takes is a certain comment at a certain time to change how one person is impacted by that versus another one. Because you have people in thin bodies who are extremely,uncomfortable with their body. And then you have people in larger bodies who are. The most comfortable and relaxed about it. Yeah. And would walk around naked publicly and have no issue with it. So you have these different things. And so it really is very individual on how you deal with that. and because, you have trauma, you have Yeah. Sexual assault. And if you even think about how sexual assault is, impacts different people you have. One group of people at one extreme end where the sexual assault sends them down an extremely dangerous promiscuous route and then on the other end, you have ones who then can’t be touched. and everything in the middle. and it’s not even the level of sexual assault or trauma. Yeah, so our human minds are so interesting in the way that they process that information. So back to your question, it’s really hard to say that. But, I mean, talking and communicating is definitely important. If it’s a really significant issue, obviously, a counseling or therapy would be ideal if you have the means, I mean, not everybody does because it’s extremely expensive, but that would be 1 way, but, Again, coming back to that webinar, something like that might be a helpful tool, podcasts like this, where you can direct them, you know, I do have a podcast of my own called men’s intuition, where I talk about these intuitive eating and non diet, questions that address the different kinds of fitness, health and nutrition topics and so it may be that you can direct them to that as a conversation starter. And then as they start to become more aware. I think that they may be more open to understanding when you do share some of those body image concerns, because it’s easy for us guys, you know, our wife says, oh, does this make my butt look big? You say? Oh, no, no, no. You’re beautiful. And we don’t see the disconnect underpinning right? We don’t realize that that comment is actually not as helpful as we might have thought it was because we just told them no, your butt’s not big. You’re beautiful. But if it was big, you wouldn’t be, you know, that’s kind of so understanding how those things can impact a person, can be a a challenging thing, but if you know that they understand that if you’re on the same page, as far as how you’re communicating, that could really make it easier. So I guess that would be 1 way to address that is to try and open their minds to some of this other way of thinking.

Jeff: Unfortunately, so much of that content is just from other women. So it’s hard for a lot of guys to take that on.

Stephanie: And it’s also what I have found from coaching women to have a conversation with men is. And I want to say men or other women who haven’t been socialized to the thin ideal. People don’t understand that angle of it. They just think, well, I don’t give a shit about your body. I don’t give a shit about my body. Why do you give a shit about your body? Like, let’s talk about socialization. So often that’s the introduction of the conversation, this concept of being socialized in the 10 I deal for them to understand why it’s so much suffering for you. And it would be the same thing from a guy who’s been socialized to that.

Stephanie: Fitness look having the conversation like women don’t understand why muscular is so important, but like, it’s much more deeply rooted than that.

Jeff: yeah. And how society conditions us to think place an incredible role because if you talk to most women, most women don’t care if their male partner or spouse has abs, they really don’t. And if you talk to most men, most men don’t care if their wife has some extra fat on their body. I mean, they just don’t and so it’s unfortunate that we get that in our mind that there’s a certain ideal and then we project that onto our spouse. And that can be, I guess, that would be a good way to answer that question you asked earlier to is to,have those kinds of conversations to and say, you know, I feel this way. And it may be that the person didn’t realize that. That what they’re doing is contributing to that. And it may be some of those comments like the, when they ask, does my butt look big and you say, no, you’re beautiful or no, you look great as if a big, but doesn’t look great and that kind of thing. So sometimes it can be. As simple as explaining how that comment can be problematic. I know me when I hear that, I’m able to process that. Now, I will say this, though, when you’re dealing with somebody who may be neurodivergent, that can be a real big problem in trying to communicate that because I’ve had people in my life who I’ve tried to communicate certain things to, and they just don’t get it. And it’s not their fault. Oh, that’s something too. It’s not their fault that they can’t get it. They can’t get it because their brain doesn’t process things in that way. Having a couple of neurodivergent kids. I have been able to kind of see that firsthand how they process And so that’s important, an important aspect to

Stephanie: let’s have a conversation about imagine one of my women is going on the intuitive eating journey, letting go of diets and obviously the family is not yet on board because just 6 months ago, the family was following her diet and her way of eating. And now, so then she’s doing that shift in her life, but the partner is not on board. Do you have any. Thoughts on that on how to approach sounds. and I’m sure it’s covered in your webinar,

Jeff: Yeah, well, the 1st place to start, I think, is to find a way to explain what it is that you’re doing, If you’re trying to talk to a man about it, and this is. Again, this is, somewhat it’s extremely general generalizing here, but a lot of us guys do well with facts and stuff like that. And so what I find makes most sense to guys. And this is my client. So I start working with and just guys I talked to in general is if you’re trying to.

Jeff: Explain intuitive eating to them, starting with the hunger and fullness thing can be a great starting point. And so where they could point out with their diet that, hey, you know, I used to give myself these targets and I let this external source tell me how much to eat. And now 1 of a couple of the key principles with intuitive eating is that I’m going to listen to the signals that my body is designed To give me when it needs more energy. So it’s kind of like a fuel light on your car. It’s saying, hey, your energy is getting low. So it’s being to light up. And that’s kind of what our hunger is. it’s sort of like that fuel light that comes on and says, I need fuel or I’m going to stop here pretty soon. And so, as we start to think about that and say, what I’m going to be doing is eating in a way when I feel hungry, I’m going to check in with my body and see how hungry I am. What I need, how much would satisfy me and then I’m going to eat and I’m going to really try and once I’m done eating and once I’m full and satisfied, then I’m going to stop eating. And that’s something I’m really working on. So, I think for a lot of guys, that can make sense. And so that can be a good starting point. I guess when you’re trying to explain intuitive eating, but also the movement aspect that it’s a, Point where I’m going to be now approaching movement from the perspective of what’s good for my body and what’s going to make it strong and healthy versus how it’s going to shrink my body.

Jeff: That’s something that’s a pretty cut and dry kind of make sense thing, whether you agree with it or not. I think it at least makes sense to most guys and then the gentle nutrition thing. So while a person may have to work through them in an order and gentle nutrition last, if you’re talking to another person who is brand new to intuitive eating and thinks it’s just a, I don’t want to diet anymore.

Jeff: And I just want to eat whatever I want. That can be a, there’s hunger and fullness that are guiding the amount that I’m going to eat. And I’m going to be really connecting with and paying attention to my body in that way. I’m going to be moving my body in a way that is… It may look exactly like what it did when I was trying to lose weight, but my mindset now is on trying to just strengthen my body and feel good. Gain mobility, strength. Yeah. and that kind of thing. I mean, and depending on the person, it’s I’ll be better in bed for it. You know, whatever you want to dowhatever your relationship is like. And then that gentle nutrition where you say, now, this isn’t tossing nutrition out the window.

Jeff: Keep in mind that I’m going to be eating and mindfully thinking about what makes my body feel good. And of course, fiber makes me feel good and protein makes me feel good, but I’m not going to be focused on meticulously tracking it. And so it may be that. Some people, you know, if they’re used to an extreme dieting, they may say, oh, well, this sounds much better. Does that mean we can eat regular pizza again? Can we eat regular food again? Yes.

Stephanie: Yeah, no. Yeah. But that’s often how the conversation goes. The partner is excited because you mean we can be normal again? Yeah. Can we have pizza on Friday night watching TV? Yes, we can. Yeah. That was a very enlightening conversation for me. I want to give you the opportunity talk. Is there anything we haven’t talked about that you would like to put out in front of my audience when it comes to your specialty and your expertise?

Jeff: Yeah, it’s a good question. since mostly women are listening, you know, I listened to your podcast. but I know that it’s probably mostly women. And so

Stephanie: that’s the target. But I know there’s other gender. Yeah.

Jeff: it really is. It’s something that I don’t know the best way to do this other than to point them to resources like mine, like, my good friend, Johnny Landels, who you might look up on Instagram to.

Stephanie: Yeah, he’s starting to coming up recently on my feed.

Jeff: Good. Yeah, he is. He’s a really great guy. He came from a competitive CrossFit background. He is a beast in the gym. Yeah, he’s also sings, theater, music, performing arts, really cool guy. and he talks a lot about that also. So pointing it guys to resources like that, like mine, hearing it from other men, Aaron Flores, guys like that. And,I think that can be helpful just to hear the message from men because Intuitive eating sounds so much like a female thing. You hear women talking about it and it makes sense. I mean, women are disproportionately affected by it and their target audiences of their women and they are a lot of the women who are in the space are very well suited to dealing with the issues that women are dealing with. And so they’re focusing their message and they’re very effective in that. And it makes sense that they would, but. At the same time, what happens is that a lot of us guys think, oh, these are just a bunch of girls over here doing girl things like girl dinner thing. And, you know, all that kind of stuff, let them do their thing with their, you know, essential oils and whatever, you know, all these stereotypes that a lot of us guys get in our head when in reality, it’s not even remotely close to what it is.

Jeff: And so I think that can be a helpful way to go about it is just say, hey, you know, I know that. you’ve had trouble taking this on board, why don’t you go check out some of these other guys you know, I actually have a good friend, Ian Bickle also, he’s on Instagram too, and he’s a former competitive bodybuilder hopefully he’ll be showing up in the Facebook group soon too, but yeah, so lots of cool stuff going on like that. There are more guys coming on board, but I think that can,be a helpful thing.

Stephanie: And I can totally support that because that’s why I focus my practice 8 years ago. I said, like, this is going to be a women thing because when we were having conversation with. Both gendered in the room, the women would be more quiet and I, as soon as I put a group of just women, the conversation lighten up and I’m sure it’s the same thing for you. The conversation lights up when there’s just men in the room.

Jeff: I’m glad you said that because it reminds me of. I have a, intuitive eating course. it’s for everybody, but it’s aimed at men really called equipped to thrive. And I also have a. Men’s support community that goes along with it. That is super low cost. it’s 10 a month. They get the weekly group coaching call access to a private group. And, in that one of the guys in particular said, I’ve worked with a lot of women over the years. I’ve been a part of these different groups, whether it was over either as anonymous or different things like that, that he’s tried and he said, they’ve always been very welcoming. But there’s always been a little bit of a wall. It’s like, they will let me come this far, but not all the way and vice versa. He said, I never felt comfortable sharing this aspect, or this thing, because as a guy, they just aren’t going to get that. And so, yeah, we have some fantastic conversations like that. And that may be another resource that you could send your partner to, to, I mean, if they’re not, they don’t have to be an intuitive either, if they just want to learn about. Okay. That and hang out with some guys and just kind of talk about it. I know my guys in the group are, you know, they would love to talk to other guys and help them understand it, even if just a short time.

Stephanie: Don’t, I guess my message is for the ladies listening to this. Don’t underestimate the power of the message, the same message you’re saying, but the message coming up for me. like minded person, do not underestimate that to help you in your journey. Don’t think you have to be the one like pull out the resources, the free podcasts and then further along the program, but it will help you.

Jeff: Yeah, absolutely. And it will help your partner. Yeah, I think that’s a great point. And I think that when you said underestimate, I think that’s one of the things where if intuitive eating is what it claims to be. And it really is all that guys. when they understand it, they embrace it and I have guys coming to me all the time who come to me. They’re like, yeah, the way I’ve been doing this hasn’t been working. Not really sold on this intuitive eating thing. I really don’t even know that much about it, but I’m interested in looking into it. And then when they do, they’re like, wow, this is exactly what I needed. This is what I’ve been looking for. And so just like women tend to attach themselves to it, or either women listening to this and probably when they heard about it, understood it and fully embraced it.

Jeff: That same thing happens with men when that message is. It’s tailored at them, just like with, with women, if the message is very much aimed at men and they’re hearing it, it’s not going to resonate in the same way. I mean, some of us guys do pretty well. you know, I learned all. Most of the intuitive eating stuff that I’ve learned and everything from women, and I still listen to lots of women podcasts and I’ve been on

Stephanie: you don’t have a choice, which is

Jeff: exactly right. But, you know, a lot of guys aren’t as open to that as I was, and so that can be helpful, but, yeah, going back to what you’re saying, the underestimating it,when they hear that message and it’s presented in a way that makes sense.they’ll latch onto it too.

Stephanie: Yeah. And as you were talking, I’m like, this whole concept of socialization and 10 ideal will be processed differently coming from you explaining the, like the problematic with women instead of a women to them, whatever. Right. But when you put it in your voice, from your perspective, they will get it. Much faster.

Stephanie: Oh, yes, you’re absolutely right. Goes back to what I was saying earlier about. Sometimes you hear something and then they’re like, I’ve been telling you this for 10 years. And why did you hear it 1 time from this random person on the Internet? And now it resonates with you. And it’s exactly that you hear it. Articulated from somebody who looks like you been like you and that goes for gender, race, sexual orientation, gender identity, anything you have religion, you see this all the time, you know, people say, oh, well, this person is, did you hear that? So and so is a democrat. Oh, awesome. And when you stop to think about it, well, does that really validate the fact that you are or a Republican, you know, whatever, wherever you are, the universal truth, somebody like a celebrity now aligns with you and now you’d suddenly connect with them on that different level. And I think that’s why that’s been helpful. And this is also why I shifted fromAn approach where I just took anybody who wanted to work with me to I’m specifically working with men now, because there’s plenty of women. Well, I mean, we could always use more, but there’s plenty of women working with women. And when I started looking for men in the intuitive eating space and couldn’t find them, and then when I created the. Intuitive. eating. men Instagram account. And now when you search for intuitive eating for men, almost from day one, my thing showed up at the top of the feed, which was sad because, if you know how Google works, it’s the established to the popular sites that show up at the top. Since a new site showed up, that’s a problem that means there’s not much out there. thank you for the work that you do. And that’s why I wanted to have you on the podcast as a resource to either women sending their partner to or even men needing help. And I know they will do better with you than with me. And I’m totally okay with that.

Jeff: So thank you. Some men like working with,women. you know, I actually like women doctors. Personally, for whatever reason,and dentists. but yeah, when it comes to counseling, I do, I like working with a man. So yeah, it’s, we all have a preference.

Stephanie: Where can people find you? You

Jeff: Yeah. So Instagram, I’m on intuitive. eating. min. And then my website is hope drives with an S hope drives me. com Oh, and the podcast is, men’s intuition and it’s on all the podcast platforms. You can just do a search for that. And I do offer completely free initial consultations. So if you have a band in your life and their one hour consultations. They’re not 15 minute like discovery call type things. So if somebody is wanting to do that, and even if you know, you can’t afford to work with me or something, but just want to take advantage of free consult. Come my way, I’d be more than happy to do that.

Jeff: thank you very much jeff.

Jeff: Thank you.

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Men, Intuitive Eating & body Image

Jeff: This is episode 381 of the beyond the food show. And today we’re going to talk men, intuitive eating and body image with a man, Jeff Ash, stay tuned.

Welcome back my sister to the podcast. I’m so excited about this episode. This is a resource that I’ve been wanting to create for a long time. M V The expert to create that with me had not yet found and I found him. His name is Jeff Hash. Jeff is a nutritionist and someone who specialize in delivering coaching for intuitive eating and body image for men exclusively.

So this podcast was recorded from two different perspectives. Number one, How does eating behavior and body image challenges presents itself in men and how it differs from women, but also on how to have the conversation with your men partner. You’re a man ally in your life around why food is a struggle for you, why you’re struggling with body image.

And Jeff even has a resource that he created for men that have partners. Women partners who are going into the journey of the non-ED approach. This is everything I’ve been wanting to create for you. So I invite you first to listen to this podcast as a woman who has a friend, perhaps a partner. That is self identify as a man in that whole context of anti diaculture.

And if you think this is good and your partner wants to support you better, get him to listen to this podcast and perhaps even watch the masterclass, the workshop that Jeff taught specifically for men. You’re going to enjoy that podcast. I don’t have much more to say. I just want to roll out this interview for you because I think this is going to be a tool that will have great impact for many of you to my team, let’s roll in the interview with Jeff.

Stephanie: Welcome to the show, Jeff.

Jeff: Hey, great to be here.

Stephanie: it’s an honor to have you. And I have been dreaming about this podcast for years of having someone to discuss these topics with from another perspective, so we’re going to talk about food and body image and the relationship in a men, women or men relationship of one partner going on the journey of the non diet approach and intuitive eating and so forth. But here’s my first question, obviously, my world is filled with people self identified as women and we understand socialization and diaculture particularly affect women. However, I’m pretty sure it affects Men’s as well.

Jeff: Yeah, it really does. it’s different in the way that it does because men aren’t as objectified in the same sense that women are typically. I think that’s a big difference, but there’s still a lot of pressure for men to meet a certain ideal, a certain beauty standard that there is for men, especially these days. but also, so not necessarily thin and lean, but lean and muscular. So you’ll often hear guys joke with each other, you know, about, about their body size and, oh, do you even lift bro? And that kind of a mentality where you have a person who could be in phenomenal, incredible shape, physical condition, and yet they’re given a hard time because their physical condition doesn’t lend itself to showing big muscles and that kind of a thing. And so there is that aspect of it. And so, you know, so a lot of men will suffer from body dysmorphia or body dysmorphic type behaviors and beliefs, often it’s kind of classified as what we call muscle dysmorphia. So it’s specifically related to the muscular, aspect of their body. And there’s even a term that’s been coined for eating in a way to support being big and muscular called bigorexia. I don’t know if you’ve ever heard that term.

Stephanie: No, but I love all those terms. Throw them at me. I’m getting an education here.

Jeff: Yeah. So, you know, so you have those kinds of things where for women that are trying to stay lean and thin and meet up to society’s standards of size, men may engage in certain disorder eating behaviors for the same purpose of gaining muscle or, you know, they restrict in certain ways to stay lean so that their muscular definition is visible and that kind of a thing.

Jeff: And so, yeah, so there’s, so it’s different, definitely, but there is still that aspect. And so I guess 1 of the things I see that’s. Noticeably different is that unless a man is significantly larger, there isn’t quite as much pressure on them to just eat as little as possible. You know, I think that a lot of women have experienced that it’s like, little as you can tolerate. In fact, I’ve even had nutrition professionals in some of my training say that is a good approach to take is diet people on as little food as they’re able to tolerate that kind of mentality. And, whereas I think that guys are often pushed more in the supplement range and the hardcore training and still very problematic patterns, but it’s, but it looks a little different. So

Stephanie: I’ve had in my early, like, we’re going back 9 years ago in my first 3 years of practice, I was attached to a gym. So I had a lot of, body builders that presented with binge eating pattern. Because of this, like, they had to eat 6 or 7 times a day to like, eat enough to gain the muscle and they developed binge eating because of the requirement of the competition they were doing.

Jeff: Yeah, and where I see that most problematic is in this bulk and cut. Yes. Kind of phased training where I’m in a bulking phase. So I eat as much as I can, you know, people are talking about in a lot of the groups, cause I still, even though I’m a completely non diet,coach now in, in all of my work with my clients, I still hang out in some of these fitness groups where it very much is your typical kind of fitness advice, because I do like to offer in another perspective and hopefully open some people’s eyes to just something else out there. And then also just to kind of keep my finger on the pulse of what’s the conversations that are going on. So I can better address men when they come to me or in my content and that kind of a thing. But yeah, I see that, that all the time that what I see with the binge thing is the bulk and cut phase kind of a thing, but also the cheat day mentality.

Jeff: And it’s almost a place of pride. Yeah. To say how much they ate. And it reminds me of one of the, one of the conversations in one of these groups, one of the guys was training and he was kind of proud of the fact that he was had started training for a show and that he had his own bodybuilding coach and, you know, all of those kinds of things and kind of talking about it.

Jeff: And so they’re excited to share how cool that was. And he was in very much a sense bragging about the fact that his coach made him extremely meticulous on his diet tracking during the week, but he had a cheat meal every week where I mean, the guy basically prescribed binge eating problems for this guy because he had 1 hour that was his cheat meal. One hour to eat as much as he possibly could. Anything he wanted, as much as he wanted. But he had to, and had to be in that hour. So it was literally, here, I am prescribing to you to have a binge eating episode. And he did. He would eat multiple Big Macs, multiple large fries, milkshakes like, to the point of nausea. And he was bragging about, you know, how much he could kind of get in. And that, it was just very… Oh, it just broke my heart that this person was being coached to do this by someone who’s supposed to be a professional.

Stephanie: So, patterns of body image presents itself a lot on those, like, I want to call them sports or training area, but does it also affect, I’m going to use air quote here, like the term dad bods. Yes. So body image is beyond just the trainer that people who train, am I correct?

Jeff: Oh, yeah. Yeah, for sure. And that’s one of the problems because one of the things that I, if somebody wants to participate in bodybuilding and they know what it involves, go for it. If you want to do that and you know that it’s going to bring on these disordered patterns at different times. And you’ve chosen to do that because you enjoy it more power to you. That’s fine. The problem is that I would say the bulk, the vast majority of the advice given to plain old guys a guy with 3 kids works a job. Married, you know, lives in the suburbs, you know, whatever, just has a little bit of extra time during the week, but it’s really pretty drained doing all the family, the dad things they’re often given the same advice that a bodybuilding coach would give to a bodybuilder who’s prepping for shows. And so they’re encouraged to engage in these kinds of behaviors and they’re often. There’s debates over what level of body fat percentage is quote healthy or sustainable. And at what level of body fat can you see your ab development? And some people are like, Oh, it’s at 12 percent and other people, Oh, it’s at 14. And then there’s discussions about what’s the best way to measure body fat percentage. That’s the most accurate. And, you know, I’ll often present questions like, well, why do you need to know this? what will that tell you? And then they’re like, Oh, I just want to know. And so there’s a lot of this stuff that gets in there.

Jeff: That really distorts a lot of the thinking for the dad who literally their goals are like, often I’ll see in these groups, somebody will say, what’s the best advice to lose weight and do this and that. And they’ll get all kinds of bodybuilding advice. And then my question is, what do you want to do? What’s your goal? I just want to be healthy for my kids. And I want to be around when I’m 70 years old. And yeah, I don’t want to die young. Okay. This is not the way to do that. A bodybuilding lifestyle is not the way to do that. Here are some things that you can do and what’s interesting is most of them are exactly what we teach our clients when we’re teaching them a non diet, intuitive eating, weight neutral approach to health.

Jeff: Movement, eating according to the cues that your body is giving you, paying attention to those things. If your body is telling you something, go to the doctor and get it checked out if you have the means to do that. And all those kinds of health promoting behaviors.

Stephanie: So it goes beyond the Jim Fitzpah world, but the type of advice, what I’m hearing for you is the type of advice, the way the body looks. It may be different for the men world, like the male type of world, but it creates the same symptoms as we have in women’s world, which is distorted eating behavior and body hatred.

Jeff: Yeah. Yeah. It really does. And what I often have said is that it presents itself a little bit differently, but when we start to, when I work with my guys one on one and we start to explore the clean your plate club issues and the late night.

Jeff: Eating where they find themselves burying in the pantry and eating in the middle of the night and all of those typical things that we deal with women, the emotional eating, when we unpack it all goes back to the same underlying issues that restriction, not. Yeah, inconsistent eating patterns that and instead of just saying, hey, let’s look at some of these underlying root causes. Let’s just put the weight loss stuff on the back burner. I know you want that. But you know what? That’s not even the problem. That’s if it’s. If you are actually the body size, it’s not appropriate for your body, whether it’s too big or too small. that’s not the problem. That’s the symptom of something else going on.

Jeff: And so try and get them to say, I’m not telling you that you’re at the right size or not. I don’t know. We won’t know. But what I could tell is you’ve explained to me some things that are problematic and let’s look at those and then let’s just see what happens. Let’s let your body do what it’s going to do. And. Okay. You know, you’ve clearly have these issues with binge eating or emotional eating or that kind of thing. So why are we trying to throw you on a weight loss diet to address body size? Let’s address these underlying issues that you even know in your heart are the things that are driving.

Jeff: The health issues that maybe you’re struggling with. And so, again, it comes back at every woman that I’ve worked with. Cause I used to work with men and women, and now I pretty much just work with men. I’ve kind of focused my attention that way. but they’ll, yeah, we ultimately, we get back to the same things.

Jeff: So yeah, it’s interesting.

Stephanie: So I was going to ask this, so I’m imagining someone listening to my podcast right now, who’s a woman in a. Woman to man relationship, or even a man in a man to man relationship. And they’re like, how do I approach the topic with my partner who doesn’t know anything about intuitive eating and body image? Like, how do I talk about this? Yeah. Do you have any advice on that?

Jeff: Yeah. I mean, that’s a good question. And I actually have a webinar. It’s a free webinar that is available for their partners. So if they. this can be a great tool to say, Hey, you know what? I’m having a hard time articulating this. Cause usually when they start asking the questions, it’s because for whatever reason, they’re not on the same page and they’re feeling frustrated, they’re feeling unsupported or they’re just like, every time I talk PR my partner is kind of like. Nice. So this is your new diet, right?

Jeff: So cool. I’m here for you, whatever you need, let me know. But yeah, you know, cause they’re used to them being on and off different diets. but I do have that webinar. And basically what it’s designed to do is for partners to be able to send somebody there and say, Hey, If you know, you said you want to support me, here’s something

Jeff: And it’s really aimed at men because it’s me talking. It’s my male face up on the screen talking. And so while, you know, it’s great for guys to send to their, female partners, because I’ve had guys whose wives are, you know, the role is flip flop there. I got totally on board with intuitive eating and their wife is hung up in the diet mentality. It’s great. but anyway, that outlines it outlines the principles of intuitive eating what it is what it’s not just what Hayes is what it’s not just real briefly kind of, hey, this clear up some of those misconceptions that people often have. And so that can be a great tool. and I guess the reason I mentioned that here is 1 of the things that I think can be helpful when we are trying to figure out what to say to our.

Jeff: How to bring this up how to start talking to them is understand that we’re often not our partners. best, the best person to engage our partner in an area that they are uncomfortable with. You know, that’s why I, you know, many spouses and partners go to a therapist. It’s not that they can’t talk to their spouse or their partner. It’s because. There’s certain things that are best addressed and dealt with from someone else. You know, you find it’s not uncommon for somebody to say, oh, my gosh, I heard something today and it was so powerful. And it just really got me. And then you’re like. Haven’t I told you that five times and suddenly some rando on the internet says something in it.

Jeff: You’re just like cuts right to the heart. It’s like, because there’s often that other baggage that, that comes along with it, whether you know, good or bad, it’s just, there’s things there that interfere with that. And the dieting is an example. They’ve seen you do 10 different diets and to them, this is just another diet.

Stephanie: Yeah,and also find that the body image, like women on my world have a lot of discomfort in their body and talking about that with their partner. Is difficult, because I don’t know if they’ve been hiding it. They’ve been there’s many ways that it’s expressed in the relationship, but it’s really uncomfortable to have that conversation with your partner that you’re uncomfortable in your body. Any advice on that or any.

Jeff: Yeah. I mean, it’s so individual because so many people have, it depends on what’s driving that. You know, we have the, your standard run, I’ll just call it run of the mill society’s standards of beauty that Every woman, I don’t know how any woman can escape it, but every woman is going to deal with that. So you have that where there is that general pressure. And so they’re always, and there may be the sense feeling inadequate or that their body is size, but. All it takes is a certain comment at a certain time to change how one person is impacted by that versus another one. Because you have people in thin bodies who are extremely,uncomfortable with their body. And then you have people in larger bodies who are. The most comfortable and relaxed about it. Yeah. And would walk around naked publicly and have no issue with it. So you have these different things. And so it really is very individual on how you deal with that. and because, you have trauma, you have Yeah. Sexual assault. And if you even think about how sexual assault is, impacts different people you have. One group of people at one extreme end where the sexual assault sends them down an extremely dangerous promiscuous route and then on the other end, you have ones who then can’t be touched. and everything in the middle. and it’s not even the level of sexual assault or trauma. Yeah, so our human minds are so interesting in the way that they process that information. So back to your question, it’s really hard to say that. But, I mean, talking and communicating is definitely important. If it’s a really significant issue, obviously, a counseling or therapy would be ideal if you have the means, I mean, not everybody does because it’s extremely expensive, but that would be 1 way, but, Again, coming back to that webinar, something like that might be a helpful tool, podcasts like this, where you can direct them, you know, I do have a podcast of my own called men’s intuition, where I talk about these intuitive eating and non diet, questions that address the different kinds of fitness, health and nutrition topics and so it may be that you can direct them to that as a conversation starter. And then as they start to become more aware. I think that they may be more open to understanding when you do share some of those body image concerns, because it’s easy for us guys, you know, our wife says, oh, does this make my butt look big? You say? Oh, no, no, no. You’re beautiful. And we don’t see the disconnect underpinning right? We don’t realize that that comment is actually not as helpful as we might have thought it was because we just told them no, your butt’s not big. You’re beautiful. But if it was big, you wouldn’t be, you know, that’s kind of so understanding how those things can impact a person, can be a a challenging thing, but if you know that they understand that if you’re on the same page, as far as how you’re communicating, that could really make it easier. So I guess that would be 1 way to address that is to try and open their minds to some of this other way of thinking.

Jeff: Unfortunately, so much of that content is just from other women. So it’s hard for a lot of guys to take that on.

Stephanie: And it’s also what I have found from coaching women to have a conversation with men is. And I want to say men or other women who haven’t been socialized to the thin ideal. People don’t understand that angle of it. They just think, well, I don’t give a shit about your body. I don’t give a shit about my body. Why do you give a shit about your body? Like, let’s talk about socialization. So often that’s the introduction of the conversation, this concept of being socialized in the 10 I deal for them to understand why it’s so much suffering for you. And it would be the same thing from a guy who’s been socialized to that.

Stephanie: Fitness look having the conversation like women don’t understand why muscular is so important, but like, it’s much more deeply rooted than that.

Jeff: yeah. And how society conditions us to think place an incredible role because if you talk to most women, most women don’t care if their male partner or spouse has abs, they really don’t. And if you talk to most men, most men don’t care if their wife has some extra fat on their body. I mean, they just don’t and so it’s unfortunate that we get that in our mind that there’s a certain ideal and then we project that onto our spouse. And that can be, I guess, that would be a good way to answer that question you asked earlier to is to,have those kinds of conversations to and say, you know, I feel this way. And it may be that the person didn’t realize that. That what they’re doing is contributing to that. And it may be some of those comments like the, when they ask, does my butt look big and you say, no, you’re beautiful or no, you look great as if a big, but doesn’t look great and that kind of thing. So sometimes it can be. As simple as explaining how that comment can be problematic. I know me when I hear that, I’m able to process that. Now, I will say this, though, when you’re dealing with somebody who may be neurodivergent, that can be a real big problem in trying to communicate that because I’ve had people in my life who I’ve tried to communicate certain things to, and they just don’t get it. And it’s not their fault. Oh, that’s something too. It’s not their fault that they can’t get it. They can’t get it because their brain doesn’t process things in that way. Having a couple of neurodivergent kids. I have been able to kind of see that firsthand how they process And so that’s important, an important aspect to

Stephanie: let’s have a conversation about imagine one of my women is going on the intuitive eating journey, letting go of diets and obviously the family is not yet on board because just 6 months ago, the family was following her diet and her way of eating. And now, so then she’s doing that shift in her life, but the partner is not on board. Do you have any. Thoughts on that on how to approach sounds. and I’m sure it’s covered in your webinar,

Jeff: Yeah, well, the 1st place to start, I think, is to find a way to explain what it is that you’re doing, If you’re trying to talk to a man about it, and this is. Again, this is, somewhat it’s extremely general generalizing here, but a lot of us guys do well with facts and stuff like that. And so what I find makes most sense to guys. And this is my client. So I start working with and just guys I talked to in general is if you’re trying to.

Jeff: Explain intuitive eating to them, starting with the hunger and fullness thing can be a great starting point. And so where they could point out with their diet that, hey, you know, I used to give myself these targets and I let this external source tell me how much to eat. And now 1 of a couple of the key principles with intuitive eating is that I’m going to listen to the signals that my body is designed To give me when it needs more energy. So it’s kind of like a fuel light on your car. It’s saying, hey, your energy is getting low. So it’s being to light up. And that’s kind of what our hunger is. it’s sort of like that fuel light that comes on and says, I need fuel or I’m going to stop here pretty soon. And so, as we start to think about that and say, what I’m going to be doing is eating in a way when I feel hungry, I’m going to check in with my body and see how hungry I am. What I need, how much would satisfy me and then I’m going to eat and I’m going to really try and once I’m done eating and once I’m full and satisfied, then I’m going to stop eating. And that’s something I’m really working on. So, I think for a lot of guys, that can make sense. And so that can be a good starting point. I guess when you’re trying to explain intuitive eating, but also the movement aspect that it’s a, Point where I’m going to be now approaching movement from the perspective of what’s good for my body and what’s going to make it strong and healthy versus how it’s going to shrink my body.

Jeff: That’s something that’s a pretty cut and dry kind of make sense thing, whether you agree with it or not. I think it at least makes sense to most guys and then the gentle nutrition thing. So while a person may have to work through them in an order and gentle nutrition last, if you’re talking to another person who is brand new to intuitive eating and thinks it’s just a, I don’t want to diet anymore.

Jeff: And I just want to eat whatever I want. That can be a, there’s hunger and fullness that are guiding the amount that I’m going to eat. And I’m going to be really connecting with and paying attention to my body in that way. I’m going to be moving my body in a way that is… It may look exactly like what it did when I was trying to lose weight, but my mindset now is on trying to just strengthen my body and feel good. Gain mobility, strength. Yeah. and that kind of thing. I mean, and depending on the person, it’s I’ll be better in bed for it. You know, whatever you want to dowhatever your relationship is like. And then that gentle nutrition where you say, now, this isn’t tossing nutrition out the window.

Jeff: Keep in mind that I’m going to be eating and mindfully thinking about what makes my body feel good. And of course, fiber makes me feel good and protein makes me feel good, but I’m not going to be focused on meticulously tracking it. And so it may be that. Some people, you know, if they’re used to an extreme dieting, they may say, oh, well, this sounds much better. Does that mean we can eat regular pizza again? Can we eat regular food again? Yes.

Stephanie: Yeah, no. Yeah. But that’s often how the conversation goes. The partner is excited because you mean we can be normal again? Yeah. Can we have pizza on Friday night watching TV? Yes, we can. Yeah. That was a very enlightening conversation for me. I want to give you the opportunity talk. Is there anything we haven’t talked about that you would like to put out in front of my audience when it comes to your specialty and your expertise?

Jeff: Yeah, it’s a good question. since mostly women are listening, you know, I listened to your podcast. but I know that it’s probably mostly women. And so

Stephanie: that’s the target. But I know there’s other gender. Yeah.

Jeff: it really is. It’s something that I don’t know the best way to do this other than to point them to resources like mine, like, my good friend, Johnny Landels, who you might look up on Instagram to.

Stephanie: Yeah, he’s starting to coming up recently on my feed.

Jeff: Good. Yeah, he is. He’s a really great guy. He came from a competitive CrossFit background. He is a beast in the gym. Yeah, he’s also sings, theater, music, performing arts, really cool guy. and he talks a lot about that also. So pointing it guys to resources like that, like mine, hearing it from other men, Aaron Flores, guys like that. And,I think that can be helpful just to hear the message from men because Intuitive eating sounds so much like a female thing. You hear women talking about it and it makes sense. I mean, women are disproportionately affected by it and their target audiences of their women and they are a lot of the women who are in the space are very well suited to dealing with the issues that women are dealing with. And so they’re focusing their message and they’re very effective in that. And it makes sense that they would, but. At the same time, what happens is that a lot of us guys think, oh, these are just a bunch of girls over here doing girl things like girl dinner thing. And, you know, all that kind of stuff, let them do their thing with their, you know, essential oils and whatever, you know, all these stereotypes that a lot of us guys get in our head when in reality, it’s not even remotely close to what it is.

Jeff: And so I think that can be a helpful way to go about it is just say, hey, you know, I know that. you’ve had trouble taking this on board, why don’t you go check out some of these other guys you know, I actually have a good friend, Ian Bickle also, he’s on Instagram too, and he’s a former competitive bodybuilder hopefully he’ll be showing up in the Facebook group soon too, but yeah, so lots of cool stuff going on like that. There are more guys coming on board, but I think that can,be a helpful thing.

Stephanie: And I can totally support that because that’s why I focus my practice 8 years ago. I said, like, this is going to be a women thing because when we were having conversation with. Both gendered in the room, the women would be more quiet and I, as soon as I put a group of just women, the conversation lighten up and I’m sure it’s the same thing for you. The conversation lights up when there’s just men in the room.

 

Jeff: I’m glad you said that because it reminds me of. I have a, intuitive eating course. it’s for everybody, but it’s aimed at men really called equipped to thrive. And I also have a. Men’s support community that goes along with it. That is super low cost. it’s 10 a month. They get the weekly group coaching call access to a private group. And, in that one of the guys in particular said, I’ve worked with a lot of women over the years. I’ve been a part of these different groups, whether it was over either as anonymous or different things like that, that he’s tried and he said, they’ve always been very welcoming. But there’s always been a little bit of a wall. It’s like, they will let me come this far, but not all the way and vice versa. He said, I never felt comfortable sharing this aspect, or this thing, because as a guy, they just aren’t going to get that. And so, yeah, we have some fantastic conversations like that. And that may be another resource that you could send your partner to, to, I mean, if they’re not, they don’t have to be an intuitive either, if they just want to learn about. Okay. That and hang out with some guys and just kind of talk about it. I know my guys in the group are, you know, they would love to talk to other guys and help them understand it, even if just a short time.

Stephanie: Don’t, I guess my message is for the ladies listening to this. Don’t underestimate the power of the message, the same message you’re saying, but the message coming up for me. like minded person, do not underestimate that to help you in your journey. Don’t think you have to be the one like pull out the resources, the free podcasts and then further along the program, but it will help you.

Jeff: Yeah, absolutely. And it will help your partner. Yeah, I think that’s a great point. And I think that when you said underestimate, I think that’s one of the things where if intuitive eating is what it claims to be. And it really is all that guys. when they understand it, they embrace it and I have guys coming to me all the time who come to me. They’re like, yeah, the way I’ve been doing this hasn’t been working. Not really sold on this intuitive eating thing. I really don’t even know that much about it, but I’m interested in looking into it. And then when they do, they’re like, wow, this is exactly what I needed. This is what I’ve been looking for. And so just like women tend to attach themselves to it, or either women listening to this and probably when they heard about it, understood it and fully embraced it.

Jeff: That same thing happens with men when that message is. It’s tailored at them, just like with, with women, if the message is very much aimed at men and they’re hearing it, it’s not going to resonate in the same way. I mean, some of us guys do pretty well. you know, I learned all. Most of the intuitive eating stuff that I’ve learned and everything from women, and I still listen to lots of women podcasts and I’ve been on

Stephanie: you don’t have a choice, which is

Jeff: exactly right. But, you know, a lot of guys aren’t as open to that as I was, and so that can be helpful, but, yeah, going back to what you’re saying, the underestimating it,when they hear that message and it’s presented in a way that makes sense.they’ll latch onto it too.

Stephanie: Yeah. And as you were talking, I’m like, this whole concept of socialization and 10 ideal will be processed differently coming from you explaining the, like the problematic with women instead of a women to them, whatever. Right. But when you put it in your voice, from your perspective, they will get it. Much faster.

Stephanie: Oh, yes, you’re absolutely right. Goes back to what I was saying earlier about. Sometimes you hear something and then they’re like, I’ve been telling you this for 10 years. And why did you hear it 1 time from this random person on the Internet? And now it resonates with you. And it’s exactly that you hear it. Articulated from somebody who looks like you been like you and that goes for gender, race, sexual orientation, gender identity, anything you have religion, you see this all the time, you know, people say, oh, well, this person is, did you hear that? So and so is a democrat. Oh, awesome. And when you stop to think about it, well, does that really validate the fact that you are or a Republican, you know, whatever, wherever you are, the universal truth, somebody like a celebrity now aligns with you and now you’d suddenly connect with them on that different level. And I think that’s why that’s been helpful. And this is also why I shifted fromAn approach where I just took anybody who wanted to work with me to I’m specifically working with men now, because there’s plenty of women. Well, I mean, we could always use more, but there’s plenty of women working with women. And when I started looking for men in the intuitive eating space and couldn’t find them, and then when I created the. Intuitive. eating. men Instagram account. And now when you search for intuitive eating for men, almost from day one, my thing showed up at the top of the feed, which was sad because, if you know how Google works, it’s the established to the popular sites that show up at the top. Since a new site showed up, that’s a problem that means there’s not much out there. thank you for the work that you do. And that’s why I wanted to have you on the podcast as a resource to either women sending their partner to or even men needing help. And I know they will do better with you than with me. And I’m totally okay with that.

Jeff: So thank you. Some men like working with,women. you know, I actually like women doctors. Personally, for whatever reason,and dentists. but yeah, when it comes to counseling, I do, I like working with a man. So yeah, it’s, we all have a preference.

Stephanie: Where can people find you? You

Jeff: Yeah. So Instagram, I’m on intuitive. eating. min. And then my website is hope drives with an S hope drives me. com Oh, and the podcast is, men’s intuition and it’s on all the podcast platforms. You can just do a search for that. And I do offer completely free initial consultations. So if you have a band in your life and their one hour consultations. They’re not 15 minute like discovery call type things. So if somebody is wanting to do that, and even if you know, you can’t afford to work with me or something, but just want to take advantage of free consult. Come my way, I’d be more than happy to do that.

Jeff: thank you very much jeff.

Jeff: Thank you.

 

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380-Body Image Grief & Liberation with Brianna Campos

380-Body Image Grief & Liberation with Brianna Campos

Body Image Grief

Body Image Grief & Liberation is a powerful interview with Brie Campos that will help you move thru grief for your body image and liberate yourself 

Body Image Grief

I have the honor today to introduce you to Brianna (Bri) Campos, a licensed mental health counselor. She specializes in body image education including her unique framework on body grief. 

As a body image educator and the founder of Body Image With Bri, she’s passionate about all things body image and practices through the lenses of Health at Every Size® and Intuitive Eating. 

What you’ll learn listening to this episode:

  • What is body image grief and how to move thru it
  • How long is the journey of grieving your body 
  • The relationship between money and body image 
  • Why your body liberation is in direct correlation to success

Mentioned in the show: 

How To Become a Non-Diet Coach Free Class

Undiet Your Life Program

Non-Diet Coaching Certification

Connect with our guest:

Bri’s Body Grievers Guide

Instagram – Bri Campos

Transcript

GBTF380

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This is episode 380 of the Going to Beyond the Food podcast and today we’re going to talk about body grieving Embody liberation with a very special guest Brie Campos. Stay tuned.

Hey sisters, welcome back to the podcast. It is such an honor today to host a podcast with a dear colleague of mine. Brie Campos. Brie is a licensed mental health counselor, and she specializes in body image education, including her unique framework, which is body grief. I teach body neutrality, she teaches body grief.

We’re both helping people with their body image and accepting their body and making peace with their body. But we have Two different approach. And that’s why I’m honored to have her on the podcast. Because although we have two different approach, we are a team. We are a team together through our lived experience.

She lives in a fat body. And I live in a fat body. And we have two different lived experience that brought us to two different way of teaching about body image. What we are supporting. Each other. And that’s what I think is really special in a world where people are very competitive with each other. This beautiful relationship that we have together that you’re going to experience on this podcast, I think is the most magical part of this podcast.

So we’re going to talk about body image, but in a completely different way. that we’ve been talking over for the last 380 episodes. So I can’t wait for you to understand this concept of body grieving. We’re also going to dig into money and how there’s a strong correlation between how we feel about our body.

and the amount of money we have. And I also coach Bri in this podcast, when we’re talking about the success that she’s experiencing in her business right now, and how, in my belief, in my looking at her for the last It’s a direct correlation to her body liberation. I actually made her cry three times during this interview.

So, get ready to go on a roller coaster of emotion. Now, before we roll into the interview, I just want to invite all of you, if you are a practitioner, a provider, a coach who want to learn to do this work with people to become a coach, a non diet coach that help people with body image, with eating behavior, health behavior.

We are enrolling for the non diet coaching certification right now until December the third. And I’m hosting a class, to take you in behind the scene of our certification, our curriculum, all the Tools you’ll be receiving when you join us in the certification and that’s happening that free class November the 8th you can register using the link in the show note or Stephanie Dozier comm forward slash how to become a non diet coach and if you’re listening to this after November 8th We’ve got youyou can still sign up and receive the recording.

Okay without any further ado Let’s roll in the spectacular, powerful conversation between me and Brie Campos. I’ll see you in the next podcast.

Stephanie: Welcome to the show, Brie.

Brie: Thank you for having me. So excited to be here.

Stephanie: I’m honored to have you. I’m excited to have this conversation. I’m excited for you to teach me something and for us to just be too badass. We’ve agreed that the word badass fits both of us.

Brie: Yes. Yes.

Brie: Badass body image business babes here

Brie: for it.

Stephanie: all the things.

Stephanie: start with body image, and I’m sure at some point we’re going to slip into business.

Stephanie: We both are body image educator. We’re both are coaches in that field. We’re both live in large body, but we teach a different framework. And out of curiosity and out of my own education, I want to understand your framework, which is body grieving and how That supports body image healing. So I’ll just launch the conversation from there.

Brie: Perfect. And, I could talk about, I could talk about this in my sleep. So, you just cut me off when you’re like, okay, we need to move on. So my working definition that I use for body image is from confident body. net. which describes body image in four aspects. That body image is not just how you see yourself in your mind or how you see yourself in a picture.

Brie: That is one aspect of body image, but that body image is your perception, your affect, your cognition, and your behaviors connected to your body image. So what does that mean? That your affect is the way that you feel about your body. Your perception is how you see your body. Your cognitions are the beliefs that you have about your body, and the behaviors are what you do with those cognitions.

Brie: And so as somebody who exists in a, I would identify as a large fat person, I exist in a body that is a larger than what standard plus sizing is in most stores. By not having accessibility or by once previously having the accessibility of being able to go into a regular store and, you know, buy a plus size or, you know, buy like their largest size to then losing that.

Brie: I work from the concept of grief. And the reason I work from the concept of grief is because when I was in my own body image excavation, I talk about body image as an archeological dig because I got so tired of people telling me that like body image is a journey. And if you say that, no disrespect, like that might work for you.

Brie: It didn’t work for me because where was I going? I would just talk about this. I’m a little bit neuro spicy ADHD. If I don’t know how long the journey is, I don’t want to do it. I need to know how long this is going to take. And so, because I can’t anticipate how quote unquote long the journey will be.

Brie: The thing that helped me shift was instead of seeing body image as a place of arrival, positive body image, body love as a destination, instead, seeing body image as information to be processed. And through that was born this concept of body grieving. Now, I will say, For as long as I can, I didn’t come up with the concept of body grief.

Brie: I had heard about it, but when I Googled it, nothing came up and I’d find maybe like five posts. And so through my lived experience with grief as somebody who has had personal grief and bereavement in my life. I used that and my clinical knowledge to deep dive into grief. And so when you look up the definition of grief, it is defined as loss that causes distress.

Brie: And so my working definition of body grief is the perceived loss that causes distress around body change. I’ll say that again for everyone. Body grief is the perceived loss. causes distress accompanied with body change. And I use such a vast definition because body grief can manifest in an aging body. Body grief can manifest in a body that becomes pregnant in a postpartum body. Body grief can manifest with chronic illness. Body grief can manifest with weight loss, with weight gain, with, puberty. When one’s body changes. And it causes you distress. That is what I identify as grief.

Stephanie: And the, I’m careful not to use journey because I’m somebody who use journey.

Stephanie: So the healing,

Brie: You can use journey. okay.

Stephanie: but you know, I just want people to pick up my intention. Like you have two people who do the same thing and respect each other from doing it differently. I just want everybody to.witness the beauty of this and when I’m not right, she’s not right, we’re just like exploring and having this respectful conversation

Stephanie: and It’s so needed and.

Stephanie: I

Brie: It’s both and. It’s both and. That you used your experience and your knowledge to make sense of it in your life and taught other people. And I did the same exact thing. And that, a little conversation for later. It’s the power of

Stephanie: yeah. Okay, so we’re using the process of grieving to come to a place of peace with

Brie: Ooh,

Brie: beautiful. So, so truly, right, if body love is not the destination,

Stephanie: No, I agree with you on that.

Brie: Right? For me, it was acceptance. Right? Body acceptance. So when you look at the stages of grief, the stages are denial, anger, bargaining. Depression and then acceptance and what I found is that people want to rush to the acceptance. I want to accept my body. In order to accept, you have to grief. You don’t just arrive there and be like, woo, okay, accept this body and I’ll give you, I’ll give you a short example of, in real time. I just recently got a new tattoo and,it’s. animal

Brie: print.

Brie: I thought it was cheetah.

Brie: Somebody told me it was leopard. I don’t know. I’m from Jersey. It’s a cat. cat spots. And donning my,

Stephanie: Yeah, that you’re wearing

Brie: Yeah, I’m wearing leopard print. It’s a Jersey thing. I can’t. And so, I got spots over my surgery scar because I am somebody who had weight loss surgery many years ago.

Brie: And, I had recently, when I was in Costa Rica on a retreat that I was hosting, a body positive mobility friendly retreat, I did a photo shoot in a bikini on the beach and just five years ago, I couldn’t post a photo of me in a crop top. Because of the body image gremlins, which is what I call those negative body image or body distress thoughts.

Brie: I was like, I can’t post this on the internet. I can’t, I, my nervous system can’t handle it. Fast forward five years later, and I’m doing a photo shoot on the beach with 20 people that I brought with me. That is the power of grief. That is acceptance. It is not forced. It is a byproduct of the grieving process.

Stephanie: So, what are the cheetah print meaning from your surgery?

Brie: For me, the meaning was as a form of body reclamation. That I get to reclaim, like, this scar that’s on my body. Wow, Stephanie, this is emotional. I didn’t even realize.

Brie: I got, I got my surgery when I was 19 years old and I say that it was an autonomous decision, but I was not.

Stephanie: it’s a weight loss surgery. It’s not

Brie: Correct. It was the lap band surgery and my God, I’ll never forget the decision to get the surgery was made very shortly after I had tried on a prom dress that I had purposely bought in a size too small with the intent of fitting into it, working as hard as I could to lose weight.

Brie: unsuccessfully so, and then having to grieve the fact that not only did I not meet my goal, but I also couldn’t wear this dress that was already so hard for me to find a dress for a body like mine as an adolescent. And so I remember having the surgery or getting, wanting to do the surgery as a way to hate my body less, to make myself smaller, to be able to fit in. And so to have this tattoo on the heels of my very first body, positive body, liberation, travel, mobility friendly group was a way of saying, I get to take my body back. I took it back. When I first rejected diaculture and said, you know what, I’m gonna, I’m gonna let my body do what it’s gonna do and it’s gonna suck, a. k. a. the grief, and hopefully I will land somewhere that resembles acceptance. If you had told me that this is where it was going to land me, I wouldn’t have believed you. But I couldn’t believe it because I’d never been there before. So my cheetah scars is a way of reclaiming my body.

Stephanie: Such a powerful story and I have to, to, I want to share something with you that you, I don’t think anybody knows. I don’t think I’ve ever talked about that personally. a, I have a similar tattoo on my body.

Brie: Really?

Stephanie: So, I have a scoliosis. So, for me, grieving is relating to mobility of my body due to scoliosis and all of the things that it causes.

Stephanie: And I got a tattoo 10 years ago made of the footprint. Coming out of the curvature of my spine, wrapping around my body in a kick ass, I believe in fairies, in a kick ass fairies that goes all on this. I’ll send you a

Brie: Please do.

Stephanie: but it’s very I I wanted to take back my power from the limitation of what the scoliosis was

Brie: Wow. Wow.

Brie: I have chills.

Stephanie: So I fully sense. what you did and what it, now that I understand why you did it, like it’s, we did the same thing because of that desire and that embodiment of liberation.

Brie: Yes. embodying the reclaiming of agency over my body. Like I love, and this is probably a whole other podcast. The tattoos I’ve gotten now as an adult are so much more a reflection of me and my personality. And. It’s just another way that I’m like, this is my body. This is art that my body alone is a form of art.

Brie: and so I just, I love that. I have chills knowing that you also have spots. I love

Brie: it.

Stephanie: Yeah, and it’s liberation. That’s true to me and my framework. Liberation is the last stage of expression of your body image is when you can liberate yourself. And that leads us to the business and taking space and making money for years. I didn’t believe that because I lived in a fat body. I was allowed to like, take space publicly.

Stephanie: I wasn’t allowed make ask for money and make money.

Brie: Yeah. Yes. And I know for me, I don’t know if this was your story as well. When I stopped having the body image gremlins or the body image thoughts about taking up space. And I was like, yeah, I could take up space in the world. And then it was like, oh, and now I’m going to raise my rates. Then I had all these new gremlins. I was like, can you do that? Who’s going to allow you to, are you allowed to do that? and even going on This life changing, beautiful retreat, gremlin still came up, not body image ones, but ones of perfectionism, ones of people pleasing where I’m like, Ooh, these, this pain runs deep.

Stephanie: I’ll give you an in, so I’m traveling as a digital nomad living, co living with six other people. And I am the person who’s the oldest and in the larger body. And even my my meaning of this is like every new circumstance in our life digs up new body gremlin.

Brie: Bingo. Bingo. You don’t get to escape the negative body image just by existing in a smaller body. And that’s what I thought was going to happen with my surgery. And I will tell you, I had never felt. So much shame about my body as when you are hyper focused on it shrinking. And if you had told me that Oh, this is actually going to be worse because there’s no surgery for your brain.

Brie: And this is why we say, I believe we both say this, that body image is not about your body. It’s about

Brie: your mind.

Stephanie: the surgery is the framework you teach and the framework that I teach. That’s to me is the surgery of knowing how to use your brain and your nervous system. live the best life that’s accessible to you or the format of life that’s accessible to you.

Brie: Yes. Living your whole, full, unapologetic, big, fat life.

Stephanie: And so I have limitation because of scoliosis and not the degree of limitation that you have because of the size of my body, but it’s also learning to live your best life with limitation.

Brie: Yes.

Brie: And

Stephanie: Can we talk about

Brie: I would love to talk about that. I think one of the things, and you could comment on this if you agree with this, I have folks that I talked to you about body grief, who have chronic illness, who have pain. And the story that they tell themselves is, this is my fault. That if I wasn’t in such a big body, then maybe it wouldn’t hurt so much.

Brie: And what objectively I, I know is I know people who are in small bodies with scoliosis who have so much body pain.

Stephanie: Yes.

Brie: It’s, body pain, my, my PT said this to me once. He said, body pain is your body communicating to you in the only way it knows how. And that, that shook me. I was like, wow, like my body’s talking to me.

Brie: I’m like, can I find another way to communicate with me? I think that one of the things that we don’t, we, I don’t do this is I’m not going to rate grief, I’m not going to say my grief is worse than yours. One of the things that I find with grief is that there is something with the collective. That when you experience pain, the human in me can empathize with what pain feels like and feel empathy for you because I know what it’s this is why my podcast is called the body grievers club, because if you are grieving your body, whether it be from a chronic illness, whether it be because you live in a super fat body, whether it be because you are getting older or you are having more wrinkles or you regained weight.

Stephanie: Oh,

Brie: As a collective, we know we are not alone.

Stephanie: yeah, and. I’ll go a step further is knowing how, So, in my case it’s I have to spend days in my room with a heat pad when spasm. Right? What I had to learn is how to not make that affect me living the rest of my life. And I think it affects also, like, just think about many, how many women don’t travel because they don’t, quote, fit in an airplane seat, or they’re afraid of, like, the person sitting next to them and taking their space.

Brie: this came up so much on my retreat and I will tell you like I created a Retreat because I looked at going on I was I had the travel bug I was like, I want to go somewhere and nobody talked about being mobility mindful A lot of these trips were like, and we’re going to do walking tours. And I know that with my back pain, a walk from my kitchen to my bedroom is a walk.

Brie: Like, I don’t need, I don’t need to walk any more than that. and my trip, there ended up being some walking happening. especially when people don’t understand mobility, they’re like, Oh, it’s just like a light walk. And you’re like, this is a hike. whoever said that this was going to be a light walk. But what we did in the beginning is we acknowledged. That there was going to be some stuff that came up and that there is nothing too embarrassing, too shameful to name out loud. And that this is not the space to perform. You don’t need to do something because you don’t want to be the only person not doing it.

Brie: And if that narrative or that story comes up, say it out loud and somebody is going to sit with you in that.

Stephanie: I love this. Here’s how, and you tell me what you think. The way I think about, for me, Spasm, I think of it as a teacher. To help me be more compassionate with myself. I think of, I think about it as my limitation as my teacher to, like, how can I be even more compassionate with myself?

Brie: I love that. And I know. A lot of people in the spaces that I work struggle with being compassionate to themselves. lot of people are, excuse my language, but they’re like a dick to themselves. And I’m like, okay, so what if instead you think about your best friend, your daughter, the younger version of yourself? Would you do that to them? And if your immediate response is hell no, then what that tells you is that is not in alignment with your values and the way that you’re speaking to yourself. If you wouldn’t let somebody else say that to you or wouldn’t let them say that to somebody you love, then how do we shut that down with you?

Brie: That’s to me, building awareness around what and how we’re speaking to ourselves, reassessing how we speak to ourselves, and then identifying, you know, how distressful is it? And what can I do in this moment? Is the key from being in grief and moving towards something that resembles acceptance?

Stephanie: let’s move to business. So 1 of the thing I have absurd and I, right now we’re recording this in So, you’re talking a lot on social media about how the work you’ve done on your body image has propulsed your business,like, step by step. how do you see the work that you’re doing or have done in body image, how do you see it show up in entrepreneurship?

Brie: My, my like new catchphrase that I’m saying is that my business became an extension of my body liberation.

Stephanie: Ooh.

Brie: My business became an extension of the work that I was doing that if I was going to say to little Brie, Hey, you get to take up space. You get to go and travel and unapologetically be you. Then I have to tell graduate school Brie, Hey. You get to take up space here to you don’t have to take this story that just because you help people means you don’t get to deserve not just a living wage, but a thriving one

Stephanie: Yeah.

Brie: and for context and, you know, we can get into all the business stuff like my. Retreat made the same amount of money that I did in an entire year of counseling, my first year of counseling.

Stephanie: Holy shit, eh?

Brie: Now again, like it cost a lot of money to run the

Brie: retreat. So

Stephanie: we’re talking about revenue, not profit,

Stephanie: but

Brie: you. Yes. But like I had never known that one could see so much money in their lifetime, especially being told you’re not going to, you’re not going to make money this you’re not in this for the money. You’re in

Brie: this to

Stephanie: Yeah, you were socialized by your teacher, the expert, that you were never going to make money, so why would you even try to make

Brie: Exactly. Exactly.

Stephanie: So, the more you liberated yourself, in the context of body image, the more financial resources were available, created by you.

Brie: Yes. I would say the more permission that I gave myself to take up audacious space with my body, the more I allowed myself to take up space in business and you know, a little bit of my business story is my quote unquote reliable job as a mental health counselor was no longer reliable during the pandemic

Brie: I did.

Stephanie: Oh, is that when the, the top

Brie: Yeah. It went from having consistent 25 client hour weeks to 10. And guess what? My rent was still due. My car payment was still due. I still need to pay groceries. And I had already built this platform on Instagram because all I wanted to do was help people with their body image.

Brie: And people would say to me, Bri, how do I work with you? And I was like, I don’t know, because I didn’t, I, one, I didn’t want to do it wrong, aka perfectionism. I didn’t want to do, I didn’t want to do anything wrong. I was waiting for somebody to give me permission of like, here, take this program, pay more money to qualify yourself in something you’re already qualified to do.

Stephanie: Yeah, I know.

Brie: When what I needed was somebody to teach me how to do business. I’m like, how do you make money doing the skillset that you already have? I actually, I podcast. I, In 2020, I applied for a PhD program

Stephanie: I see that all the time, Brie.

Brie: I thought it was going to qualify me,

Brie: and then I would feel more entitled to ask for more money.

Brie: And guess what? You would not, because I’m working with people. It makes it so much worse because now you have even more dead,

Stephanie: Yes.

Brie: which I still have. I still, I’m still,

Stephanie: And you still don’t know how to run a business.

Stephanie: With a Ph.

Brie: teach you that. They, it should be standard practice. They should be teaching graduate students how to run a business and they don’t, they just tell you’re not in this for the money.

Brie: And so, so yeah, so I opened up my body grievers program and accidentally made money and I was like, this is a fluke. Like this isn’t, isn’t gonna happen again. So I did it again and I was like, this is more money than I’ve ever seen in my lifetime. I was like, the government’s going to come for me.

Brie: they’re going to be like, who gave you this money? And it just so happened that a friend of mine started business coaching and I told her, and she’s like, this is not a fluke. This is what happens when you have a business. And so I said, how do I make this process repeatable? How do I make my income reliable? And so I started working with a business coach and was like, nobody ever taught me this.

Stephanie: there’s an actual formula to do this consistently.

Brie: Correct. That isn’t the extortion of my time because one on one alone is not reliable. I’ve been doing this exercise with people. I’ve been doing a couple of business intensives and it’s you know, I was doing 25 client hour weeks and then realized if I run a group program at half the cost, I can make the same amount of money in one hour of time instead of 20 hours of time, like the math is, but you also have to have the demand and you have to have the offering. it’s like throwing a party. You have to have the invite list and you have to have actually have the party, you have to throw the party. And I think a lot of people, they either have the demand, but they don’t have the party or they have the party.

Brie: And they’re like, come to my party, come to my group program. And then they’re like, why is nobody buying? Cause you’re not telling them about the party.

Stephanie: and I think that’s where body image comes in. Like, if you’re not owning your body and your voice, you’re not owning your space. People are not going to know you have a space.

Brie: Yeah. Yeah.

Stephanie: Because I see it when I coach business, because we have a, we have a business segment and it has nothing to do, as we know, with the size of the body.

Stephanie: It could be at any range of size. If you’re not confident in showing up in space, then your business is not going to thrive.

Brie: A hundred percent. I would say that my reputation preceded my financial revenue. I was already body imaged with Brie. And that contributed a lot to my financial success. But I’m also like a person who’s I need to deal in Actualities like I’m like, I, this, if I did not have those accidental months of making money, I would have been like, this is impossible because I’d never been there. I’d never

Stephanie: So you were body image with Bree just sharing without the revenue formula.

Brie: I was just

Stephanie: Oh, thank God you met that business coach.

Brie: I mean, and I honestly, like in the pandemic was absolutely atrocious and horrible and lives lost. But I think that if the pandemic hadn’t happened, I don’t know if I would have. I don’t know if I would have been brave enough to leave my quote unquote reliable job, because here’s the other thing, especially in the health and wellness field, my ego was stroked by the fact that I knew I was doing good work.

Brie: And by the fact that people were like, wow, this is so helpful, but there was a safety and yep. Okay. And if I lose this one, I don’t even have a wait list. Cause I knew that I was in demand. It’s such a much more vulnerable experience to be like, and I’m going to charge money and I might get rejected and that rejection isn’t about me. The rejection doesn’t mean that I am not good, that I am not worthy, that my, what I have to offer isn’t valuable and yet it still will hit upon those same self esteem gremlins that my body image once struggled with.

Stephanie: Yeah, our money stories I find is a direct correlation to all the socialization to diet culture and body image. We are, and we were talking about that before starting to record, like we’re thinking as making money as a zero sum game. if I, if I ask and get money, I’m stealing money from someone. Instead of being a collaborative effort, I offer value, I get money for the value. And that person is happy to give, solve their problem because they’re getting value from it.

Brie: one of the like reframes that I had to come up with, like the impactful reframes that I had to tell myself was that. My worth is not greater when I’m giving.

Stephanie: Ooh.

Brie: is not greater when I’m giving, and that healthy relationships are equal parts giving and receiving.

Stephanie: Repeat that last one.

Brie: Healthy relationships are equal parts giving and receiving. I am a great giver.

Stephanie: So true. That’s what I just said in other words, like it’s value shared,

Brie: Exact, exactly. I am such a good giver. I struggle with receiving and it used to be like when people would compliment me, I would reject it. I’d be like, Ooh, no, I can’t. I can’t accept that. But I love giving people words of affirmation. When I healed my body image, I started to be like, no, you know what?

Brie: I received that. I can take that. And then when someone’s Oh, I want to pay you. I’m like, no, no, no, no, no, no, it’s okay. Do you know that nobody tells me that I could raise my rates anymore? That’s not a compliment I get anymore.

Stephanie: really.

Brie: that’s okay, because I believe that the investment that I, or the price that I have said, this is what my time is valued at. And we could actually have a whole other podcast on this too, of like

Stephanie: Mm hmm.

Brie: time for money. Right? I don’t believe that my time is worth an hour, because when it comes down to it, a 1 on 1 session is more than just 1 hour. Right? There’s so much that goes into it.

Stephanie: There’s all the work you’ve done to create your own body image, your framework, the mindset clean up before the session and the processing of the session.

Brie: The, the administrative part of it contacted, but there’s so much that goes into it, but that when I’m going into session. I’m going in excited because I know that it is an equal exchange of they’re showing up and I’m being paid

Stephanie: And can we also layer in that you’re raising your rate because you’re more skilled too. You’ve been doing that for years.

Brie: and I didn’t realize this either. That like when you were in demand, right? Not having a wait list used to be an ego stroke for me, but what that meant was that. The only thing I could do was split myself even more to make myself more accessible and that the way we do it equitably is by creating multiple ways for people to work with me. So I’m sure similarly, I have low cost offers. that are as low as 17.

Stephanie: Yep.

Brie: have free resources that I give everything away. I don’t want you to pay me for my knowledge. I want you to pay me for the implementation. I want you to pay me to partner with you. And I have programs that are several thousand dollars for those that can make that investment. And it’s something I’m still working on. I know that’s something that you are super passionate about of Making sure that your program is rooted in anti racism and not in the patriarchy and making it equitable and accessible. One of my favorite people to learn about from money is Rachel Rogers.

Brie: And one of the things she says is that when women make money, we invest 90 percent of that money back into our communities versus men who invest about 30.

Stephanie: Yeah, Patriarchy. Right? Because matriarchy gives it

Brie: Yeah.

Stephanie: like for me, I do scholarship. I do like different things where people can get more access. I get another podcast started and I produce it so I don’t have to do it. Likeso many things we do. I don’t want to say right, but to help more people.

Brie: love that. I love

Stephanie: But when people sit with you for an hour one on one, they will get more skilled and probably faster benefit. I don’t want to say result, but faster benefit just because you’re that skilled.

Brie: a greater ROI,

Stephanie: Absolutely.

Brie: return of investment.

Stephanie: a one hour with you versus a coach who just started will be completely different. The coach will take three sessions to get to where you go into one session.

Brie: and as somebody who,I don’t know if you’re familiar with the Enneagram. I mean, I identify as an Enneagram too, which means I am the helper. I love to give my eye makes me happy to give I remember meeting with an anti racism supervisor and was like, I am giving beyond what I can and needing that unconditional permission to be like, I need to sort my house out first. Seeing the work that I’m doing, the pro bono work that I’ve done or that I’m doing is a form of giving and that there has to be a way to protect my nervous system so that I can continue to help people.

Stephanie: So talking about quotes and people that we get mentorship from for me, it’s Kelly deals, the feminist business coach and said, there’s no feminist business without a feminist being taken care of first. So if you’re working, like, way too many hours and not making enough money and stress about money, like, how is that? Anti oppressive business. how is that helping you? Who’s going to take care of you?

Brie: and even for me, that hits on some of my own wounding of you know, part of the thing I’ve been sharing on Instagram recently is like the 19 year old Brie needed a fat, positive advocate in her life. And because she didn’t exist. I became her.

Stephanie: Yeah, are a leader.

Stephanie: By you living your best life, are inspiring thousands of women who think they can’t do it.

Brie: Yeah. Yeah. And that you and I are not the goal post. Like you don’t have to make your own fat positive business if you don’t want to, but the invitation is there.

Stephanie: And I’ll say, it doesn’t have to be about business. I always say to people, like, if you want to be a mom and you want to homeschool your kids, that’s your best life. Mine is travel. What’s yours?

Brie: I love that. I love that. yeah, I think mine keeps changing. I know for me. One of my, you know, in my history of wanting a home base, I have not felt home for years in just for a lot of reasons. And this year, I’m going to cry again.

Stephanie: you just bought a house,

Brie: I just bought a house and that would not have been possible without my business. when I was actually looking into buying a house in 2020 and looking into buying a house now, I was offered over 250, 000 more dollars to borrow just because of my business. Now, again, that doesn’t mean that I could buy that much. I was like, I still know what I make and what I need to survive and not wanting to.

Brie: You know, be panicked or worry about money, you know, when you’re looking at buying a house and you say, okay, here’s my budget, you’re usually buying below your budget. So with that small budget, I was looking at things even less. I was like, I’m going to live in a cardboard box. that’s what I can afford as a single person in a very expensive state. And so to be able to buy a house. In this state, by myself, no romantic partner, that’s my dream, that I did it,

Stephanie: Yeah, that’s your best life right now at this stage. And then your retreat last week or last month was the next level. What’s the next one?

Brie: You know what? I haven’t even thought about it yet.

Stephanie: You’re still running the high of the

Brie: when your dreams come true, it’s like, what’s next? II don’t know, but the possibility is what’s so beautiful

Stephanie: What was the absence of limitation now?

Brie: about it. Oh! Woo! Absence of limitation. Yeah.

Stephanie: Because that’s what body image does to us. Is it like sets preset limitation?

Brie: and I think even just going back to what you said before of and for you, like for me going to Costa Rica on a retreat, but it was mobility, there was one excursion that I had done that, would never want to go. What’s the thing when the zip lining that would never, never appeal to me.

Brie: But somebody else was like, wow, that makes me really sad that I, I’m not like, I can’t because of my body size. I’m like, I’m not, I’m not grieving that because I wouldn’t want to do it anyway.

Stephanie: yeah.

Brie: And there’s space for that. And then this is where my business brain kicks in because I asked them, why is there a weight limit? For zip lining, and they said, literally it’s inertia. They haven’t figured out a way to suspend or slow a body down when it’s zip lining. And so it’s dangerous for you because of the speed you’re going. So my business brain is like, somebody just needs to create an innovation like they have the gear.

Brie: You can do the gear. It’s just about slowing you down. And so when I started seeing. What used to be as like, Oh, this is a problem of, Ooh, this is a problem that has a solution. I just need somebody who’s in a, I need it. I need an engineer,

Stephanie: Yeah, you need to do a pitch to an engineer.

Brie: And I don’t know if you experienced this as well, like a lot of the. The people that come into my world with body image are some of the most incredible, badass human beings. I’m like, that is so like you build bridges for a living. that is so cool. And yet there are these wounds that are like fifth grade wounds of like, but what if people don’t like me? And it’s keeping them limited.

Stephanie: 100%. It’s the, call it, like, the thought curve limitation that just has been embedded in your brain. Everything like, put your eyes on, you’re like, but how am I limiting? How am I limited to do that?

Brie: Yes.

Stephanie: So, when you take off those glasses, the world becomes your oyster.

Brie: and I don’t know. So are you familiar with the process of neuroplasticity? Right? So neuroplasticity is this concept that our beliefs can change. And the way I like to think of it is like, So if you have a, if you think about like when a, when an idea or a thought comes into your head and it’s linked to a thought pattern or behavior, it’s like a stream. There is a stream that is already formed. So I think many of us have grown up thinking, Oh, I’m in a fat body. This is my fault. This is the stream that I am. deferred to

Stephanie: A hundred percent.

Brie: through time, time, active, unlearning community. All of those things can create a new neural pathway. And you and I are both evidence of that.

Stephanie: And no matter what age you are. Like, there’s no limit to neuroplasticity.

Brie: yeah.

Stephanie: like, you could be listening to this and you’re 60 years old and you’re like, but that doesn’t work for me because, no, neuroplasticity is there your whole life, you just have to know how to activate it and work with it.

Brie: And what I would say too, from a grief perspective is it might be harder for you the older you are, because if you think about a mess, like to call it the conditioning of diet culture, right? If somebody like myself, I was conditioned for 30 years and got out in 30 years, right? So now I’m going to get to live the rest of my life as my best life.

Brie: Somebody who’s learning this at 60, you’ve been conditioned for 60 years. So it’s going to be harder for you to unlearn that. And I’ll just share a quick testimony. I had two people. I did not anticipate crying all of the emotions coming out today, Steph.

Stephanie: make you cry all over the place

Brie: I cry always with gratitude. that is my, my, my signature.

Brie: I’m like, wow, I’m so grateful. I had two people on my trip who were older, who had never worn a bathing suit on a vacation before, and they came down to the pool the first day, and neither of them put their bathing suit on, and they fucking did it together. And that will be a core memory in my mind, that we Facilitated that by showing up in the suck, in the struggle, everything became worth it for me in that moment to see the healing that was produced for them.

Stephanie: This is powerful. this medium of this retreat that is your dream. Can you just appreciate, like, you made you live your dream, but what is the impact?

Brie: And I think this is the piece of grief, right? I think this is a universal question of what is the point of suffering? What is the point of hurting and philosophers will study this for the rest of time. And Elizabeth Cooper Ross says she’s the creator of, the stages of grief and there is no silver lining.

Brie: There is no, you know, but okay, what can we look forward to? Or what’s the gratitude? But when you have experienced grief, it allows you to connect to other people who are grieving. And her phrase is, when grief is shared, grief is evaded.

Stephanie: You know, I just wrote an email yesterday for a program that I’m launching in 2 weeks and I shared my thoughts as to how, like. What are my thoughts that are driving my business and 1 of them is what you said, but. Said another way, everything that happened to me happened for a reason.

Brie: Yes.

Stephanie: be here doing this program. With you,

Brie: And at the same time, saying that to somebody while they’re still in the struggle can feel like a silver lining, like it can feel like a dismissal of pain. But for you to say the journey has been worth it, that is the byproduct Of acceptance. It’s not, yay. I’m so glad I struggled. It’s wow. I struggled and I survived.

Stephanie: It was hard as

Brie: It was hard as fuck. And I am, I have not only survived, but I am thriving now.

Stephanie: Yeah. We’re going to end this conversation on this for now, because I’m sure we can have Many more. I appreciate so much the time that you spent with us today.

Brie: Thank you for having me.

Stephanie: I respect your work. I’ve learned a ton from listening to you answering my question, and I really appreciate you, Bri. Thank

Stephanie: you.

Brie: appreciate you. Thank you, Stephanie.

.

Body Image Grief & Liberation

This is episode 380 of the Going to Beyond the Food podcast and today we’re going to talk about body grieving Embody liberation with a very special guest Brie Campos. Stay tuned.

Hey sisters, welcome back to the podcast. It is such an honor today to host a podcast with a dear colleague of mine. Brie Campos. Brie is a licensed mental health counselor, and she specializes in body image education, including her unique framework, which is body grief. I teach body neutrality, she teaches body grief.

We’re both helping people with their body image and accepting their body and making peace with their body. But we have Two different approach. And that’s why I’m honored to have her on the podcast. Because although we have two different approach, we are a team. We are a team together through our lived experience.

She lives in a fat body. And I live in a fat body. And we have two different lived experience that brought us to two different way of teaching about body image. What we are supporting. Each other. And that’s what I think is really special in a world where people are very competitive with each other. This beautiful relationship that we have together that you’re going to experience on this podcast, I think is the most magical part of this podcast.

So we’re going to talk about body image, but in a completely different way. that we’ve been talking over for the last 380 episodes. So I can’t wait for you to understand this concept of body grieving. We’re also going to dig into money and how there’s a strong correlation between how we feel about our body.

and the amount of money we have. And I also coach Bri in this podcast, when we’re talking about the success that she’s experiencing in her business right now, and how, in my belief, in my looking at her for the last It’s a direct correlation to her body liberation. I actually made her cry three times during this interview.

So, get ready to go on a roller coaster of emotion. Now, before we roll into the interview, I just want to invite all of you, if you are a practitioner, a provider, a coach who want to learn to do this work with people to become a coach, a non diet coach that help people with body image, with eating behavior, health behavior.

We are enrolling for the non diet coaching certification right now until December the third. And I’m hosting a class, to take you in behind the scene of our certification, our curriculum, all the Tools you’ll be receiving when you join us in the certification and that’s happening that free class November the 8th you can register using the link in the show note or Stephanie Dozier comm forward slash how to become a non diet coach and if you’re listening to this after November 8th We’ve got youyou can still sign up and receive the recording.

Okay without any further ado Let’s roll in the spectacular, powerful conversation between me and Brie Campos. I’ll see you in the next podcast.

Stephanie: Welcome to the show, Brie.

Brie: Thank you for having me. So excited to be here.

Stephanie: I’m honored to have you. I’m excited to have this conversation. I’m excited for you to teach me something and for us to just be too badass. We’ve agreed that the word badass fits both of us.

Brie: Yes. Yes.

Brie: Badass body image business babes here

Brie: for it.

Stephanie: all the things.

Stephanie: start with body image, and I’m sure at some point we’re going to slip into business.

Stephanie: We both are body image educator. We’re both are coaches in that field. We’re both live in large body, but we teach a different framework. And out of curiosity and out of my own education, I want to understand your framework, which is body grieving and how That supports body image healing. So I’ll just launch the conversation from there.

Brie: Perfect. And, I could talk about, I could talk about this in my sleep. So, you just cut me off when you’re like, okay, we need to move on. So my working definition that I use for body image is from confident body. net. which describes body image in four aspects. That body image is not just how you see yourself in your mind or how you see yourself in a picture.

Brie: That is one aspect of body image, but that body image is your perception, your affect, your cognition, and your behaviors connected to your body image. So what does that mean? That your affect is the way that you feel about your body. Your perception is how you see your body. Your cognitions are the beliefs that you have about your body, and the behaviors are what you do with those cognitions.

Brie: And so as somebody who exists in a, I would identify as a large fat person, I exist in a body that is a larger than what standard plus sizing is in most stores. By not having accessibility or by once previously having the accessibility of being able to go into a regular store and, you know, buy a plus size or, you know, buy like their largest size to then losing that.

Brie: I work from the concept of grief. And the reason I work from the concept of grief is because when I was in my own body image excavation, I talk about body image as an archeological dig because I got so tired of people telling me that like body image is a journey. And if you say that, no disrespect, like that might work for you.

Brie: It didn’t work for me because where was I going? I would just talk about this. I’m a little bit neuro spicy ADHD. If I don’t know how long the journey is, I don’t want to do it. I need to know how long this is going to take. And so, because I can’t anticipate how quote unquote long the journey will be.

Brie: The thing that helped me shift was instead of seeing body image as a place of arrival, positive body image, body love as a destination, instead, seeing body image as information to be processed. And through that was born this concept of body grieving. Now, I will say, For as long as I can, I didn’t come up with the concept of body grief.

Brie: I had heard about it, but when I Googled it, nothing came up and I’d find maybe like five posts. And so through my lived experience with grief as somebody who has had personal grief and bereavement in my life. I used that and my clinical knowledge to deep dive into grief. And so when you look up the definition of grief, it is defined as loss that causes distress.

Brie: And so my working definition of body grief is the perceived loss that causes distress around body change. I’ll say that again for everyone. Body grief is the perceived loss. causes distress accompanied with body change. And I use such a vast definition because body grief can manifest in an aging body. Body grief can manifest in a body that becomes pregnant in a postpartum body. Body grief can manifest with chronic illness. Body grief can manifest with weight loss, with weight gain, with, puberty. When one’s body changes. And it causes you distress. That is what I identify as grief.

Stephanie: And the, I’m careful not to use journey because I’m somebody who use journey.

Stephanie: So the healing,

Brie: You can use journey. okay.

Stephanie: but you know, I just want people to pick up my intention. Like you have two people who do the same thing and respect each other from doing it differently. I just want everybody to.witness the beauty of this and when I’m not right, she’s not right, we’re just like exploring and having this respectful conversation

Stephanie: and It’s so needed and.

Stephanie: I

Brie: It’s both and. It’s both and. That you used your experience and your knowledge to make sense of it in your life and taught other people. And I did the same exact thing. And that, a little conversation for later. It’s the power of

Stephanie: yeah. Okay, so we’re using the process of grieving to come to a place of peace with

Brie: Ooh,

Brie: beautiful. So, so truly, right, if body love is not the destination,

Stephanie: No, I agree with you on that.

Brie: Right? For me, it was acceptance. Right? Body acceptance. So when you look at the stages of grief, the stages are denial, anger, bargaining. Depression and then acceptance and what I found is that people want to rush to the acceptance. I want to accept my body. In order to accept, you have to grief. You don’t just arrive there and be like, woo, okay, accept this body and I’ll give you, I’ll give you a short example of, in real time. I just recently got a new tattoo and,it’s. animal

Brie: print.

Brie: I thought it was cheetah.

Brie: Somebody told me it was leopard. I don’t know. I’m from Jersey. It’s a cat. cat spots. And donning my,

Stephanie: Yeah, that you’re wearing

Brie: Yeah, I’m wearing leopard print. It’s a Jersey thing. I can’t. And so, I got spots over my surgery scar because I am somebody who had weight loss surgery many years ago.

Brie: And, I had recently, when I was in Costa Rica on a retreat that I was hosting, a body positive mobility friendly retreat, I did a photo shoot in a bikini on the beach and just five years ago, I couldn’t post a photo of me in a crop top. Because of the body image gremlins, which is what I call those negative body image or body distress thoughts.

Brie: I was like, I can’t post this on the internet. I can’t, I, my nervous system can’t handle it. Fast forward five years later, and I’m doing a photo shoot on the beach with 20 people that I brought with me. That is the power of grief. That is acceptance. It is not forced. It is a byproduct of the grieving process.

Stephanie: So, what are the cheetah print meaning from your surgery?

Brie: For me, the meaning was as a form of body reclamation. That I get to reclaim, like, this scar that’s on my body. Wow, Stephanie, this is emotional. I didn’t even realize.

Brie: I got, I got my surgery when I was 19 years old and I say that it was an autonomous decision, but I was not.

Stephanie: it’s a weight loss surgery. It’s not

Brie: Correct. It was the lap band surgery and my God, I’ll never forget the decision to get the surgery was made very shortly after I had tried on a prom dress that I had purposely bought in a size too small with the intent of fitting into it, working as hard as I could to lose weight.

Brie: unsuccessfully so, and then having to grieve the fact that not only did I not meet my goal, but I also couldn’t wear this dress that was already so hard for me to find a dress for a body like mine as an adolescent. And so I remember having the surgery or getting, wanting to do the surgery as a way to hate my body less, to make myself smaller, to be able to fit in. And so to have this tattoo on the heels of my very first body, positive body, liberation, travel, mobility friendly group was a way of saying, I get to take my body back. I took it back. When I first rejected diaculture and said, you know what, I’m gonna, I’m gonna let my body do what it’s gonna do and it’s gonna suck, a. k. a. the grief, and hopefully I will land somewhere that resembles acceptance. If you had told me that this is where it was going to land me, I wouldn’t have believed you. But I couldn’t believe it because I’d never been there before. So my cheetah scars is a way of reclaiming my body.

Stephanie: Such a powerful story and I have to, to, I want to share something with you that you, I don’t think anybody knows. I don’t think I’ve ever talked about that personally. a, I have a similar tattoo on my body.

Brie: Really?

Stephanie: So, I have a scoliosis. So, for me, grieving is relating to mobility of my body due to scoliosis and all of the things that it causes.

Stephanie: And I got a tattoo 10 years ago made of the footprint. Coming out of the curvature of my spine, wrapping around my body in a kick ass, I believe in fairies, in a kick ass fairies that goes all on this. I’ll send you a

Brie: Please do.

Stephanie: but it’s very I I wanted to take back my power from the limitation of what the scoliosis was

Brie: Wow. Wow.

Brie: I have chills.

Stephanie: So I fully sense. what you did and what it, now that I understand why you did it, like it’s, we did the same thing because of that desire and that embodiment of liberation.

Brie: Yes. embodying the reclaiming of agency over my body. Like I love, and this is probably a whole other podcast. The tattoos I’ve gotten now as an adult are so much more a reflection of me and my personality. And. It’s just another way that I’m like, this is my body. This is art that my body alone is a form of art.

Brie: and so I just, I love that. I have chills knowing that you also have spots. I love

Brie: it.

Stephanie: Yeah, and it’s liberation. That’s true to me and my framework. Liberation is the last stage of expression of your body image is when you can liberate yourself. And that leads us to the business and taking space and making money for years. I didn’t believe that because I lived in a fat body. I was allowed to like, take space publicly.

Stephanie: I wasn’t allowed make ask for money and make money.

Brie: Yeah. Yes. And I know for me, I don’t know if this was your story as well. When I stopped having the body image gremlins or the body image thoughts about taking up space. And I was like, yeah, I could take up space in the world. And then it was like, oh, and now I’m going to raise my rates. Then I had all these new gremlins. I was like, can you do that? Who’s going to allow you to, are you allowed to do that? and even going on This life changing, beautiful retreat, gremlin still came up, not body image ones, but ones of perfectionism, ones of people pleasing where I’m like, Ooh, these, this pain runs deep.

Stephanie: I’ll give you an in, so I’m traveling as a digital nomad living, co living with six other people. And I am the person who’s the oldest and in the larger body. And even my my meaning of this is like every new circumstance in our life digs up new body gremlin.

Brie: Bingo. Bingo. You don’t get to escape the negative body image just by existing in a smaller body. And that’s what I thought was going to happen with my surgery. And I will tell you, I had never felt. So much shame about my body as when you are hyper focused on it shrinking. And if you had told me that Oh, this is actually going to be worse because there’s no surgery for your brain.

Brie: And this is why we say, I believe we both say this, that body image is not about your body. It’s about

Brie: your mind.

Stephanie: the surgery is the framework you teach and the framework that I teach. That’s to me is the surgery of knowing how to use your brain and your nervous system. live the best life that’s accessible to you or the format of life that’s accessible to you.

Brie: Yes. Living your whole, full, unapologetic, big, fat life.

Stephanie: And so I have limitation because of scoliosis and not the degree of limitation that you have because of the size of my body, but it’s also learning to live your best life with limitation.

Brie: Yes.

Brie: And

Stephanie: Can we talk about

Brie: I would love to talk about that. I think one of the things, and you could comment on this if you agree with this, I have folks that I talked to you about body grief, who have chronic illness, who have pain. And the story that they tell themselves is, this is my fault. That if I wasn’t in such a big body, then maybe it wouldn’t hurt so much.

Brie: And what objectively I, I know is I know people who are in small bodies with scoliosis who have so much body pain.

Stephanie: Yes.

Brie: It’s, body pain, my, my PT said this to me once. He said, body pain is your body communicating to you in the only way it knows how. And that, that shook me. I was like, wow, like my body’s talking to me.

Brie: I’m like, can I find another way to communicate with me? I think that one of the things that we don’t, we, I don’t do this is I’m not going to rate grief, I’m not going to say my grief is worse than yours. One of the things that I find with grief is that there is something with the collective. That when you experience pain, the human in me can empathize with what pain feels like and feel empathy for you because I know what it’s this is why my podcast is called the body grievers club, because if you are grieving your body, whether it be from a chronic illness, whether it be because you live in a super fat body, whether it be because you are getting older or you are having more wrinkles or you regained weight.

Stephanie: Oh,

Brie: As a collective, we know we are not alone.

Stephanie: yeah, and. I’ll go a step further is knowing how, So, in my case it’s I have to spend days in my room with a heat pad when spasm. Right? What I had to learn is how to not make that affect me living the rest of my life. And I think it affects also, like, just think about many, how many women don’t travel because they don’t, quote, fit in an airplane seat, or they’re afraid of, like, the person sitting next to them and taking their space.

Brie: this came up so much on my retreat and I will tell you like I created a Retreat because I looked at going on I was I had the travel bug I was like, I want to go somewhere and nobody talked about being mobility mindful A lot of these trips were like, and we’re going to do walking tours. And I know that with my back pain, a walk from my kitchen to my bedroom is a walk.

Brie: Like, I don’t need, I don’t need to walk any more than that. and my trip, there ended up being some walking happening. especially when people don’t understand mobility, they’re like, Oh, it’s just like a light walk. And you’re like, this is a hike. whoever said that this was going to be a light walk. But what we did in the beginning is we acknowledged. That there was going to be some stuff that came up and that there is nothing too embarrassing, too shameful to name out loud. And that this is not the space to perform. You don’t need to do something because you don’t want to be the only person not doing it.

Brie: And if that narrative or that story comes up, say it out loud and somebody is going to sit with you in that.

Stephanie: I love this. Here’s how, and you tell me what you think. The way I think about, for me, Spasm, I think of it as a teacher. To help me be more compassionate with myself. I think of, I think about it as my limitation as my teacher to, like, how can I be even more compassionate with myself?

Brie: I love that. And I know. A lot of people in the spaces that I work struggle with being compassionate to themselves. lot of people are, excuse my language, but they’re like a dick to themselves. And I’m like, okay, so what if instead you think about your best friend, your daughter, the younger version of yourself? Would you do that to them? And if your immediate response is hell no, then what that tells you is that is not in alignment with your values and the way that you’re speaking to yourself. If you wouldn’t let somebody else say that to you or wouldn’t let them say that to somebody you love, then how do we shut that down with you?

Brie: That’s to me, building awareness around what and how we’re speaking to ourselves, reassessing how we speak to ourselves, and then identifying, you know, how distressful is it? And what can I do in this moment? Is the key from being in grief and moving towards something that resembles acceptance?

Stephanie: let’s move to business. So 1 of the thing I have absurd and I, right now we’re recording this in So, you’re talking a lot on social media about how the work you’ve done on your body image has propulsed your business,like, step by step. how do you see the work that you’re doing or have done in body image, how do you see it show up in entrepreneurship?

Brie: My, my like new catchphrase that I’m saying is that my business became an extension of my body liberation.

Stephanie: Ooh.

Brie: My business became an extension of the work that I was doing that if I was going to say to little Brie, Hey, you get to take up space. You get to go and travel and unapologetically be you. Then I have to tell graduate school Brie, Hey. You get to take up space here to you don’t have to take this story that just because you help people means you don’t get to deserve not just a living wage, but a thriving one

Stephanie: Yeah.

Brie: and for context and, you know, we can get into all the business stuff like my. Retreat made the same amount of money that I did in an entire year of counseling, my first year of counseling.

Stephanie: Holy shit, eh?

Brie: Now again, like it cost a lot of money to run the

Brie: retreat. So

Stephanie: we’re talking about revenue, not profit,

Stephanie: but

Brie: you. Yes. But like I had never known that one could see so much money in their lifetime, especially being told you’re not going to, you’re not going to make money this you’re not in this for the money. You’re in

Brie: this to

Stephanie: Yeah, you were socialized by your teacher, the expert, that you were never going to make money, so why would you even try to make

Brie: Exactly. Exactly.

Stephanie: So, the more you liberated yourself, in the context of body image, the more financial resources were available, created by you.

Brie: Yes. I would say the more permission that I gave myself to take up audacious space with my body, the more I allowed myself to take up space in business and you know, a little bit of my business story is my quote unquote reliable job as a mental health counselor was no longer reliable during the pandemic

Brie: I did.

Stephanie: Oh, is that when the, the top

Brie: Yeah. It went from having consistent 25 client hour weeks to 10. And guess what? My rent was still due. My car payment was still due. I still need to pay groceries. And I had already built this platform on Instagram because all I wanted to do was help people with their body image.

Brie: And people would say to me, Bri, how do I work with you? And I was like, I don’t know, because I didn’t, I, one, I didn’t want to do it wrong, aka perfectionism. I didn’t want to do, I didn’t want to do anything wrong. I was waiting for somebody to give me permission of like, here, take this program, pay more money to qualify yourself in something you’re already qualified to do.

Stephanie: Yeah, I know.

Brie: When what I needed was somebody to teach me how to do business. I’m like, how do you make money doing the skillset that you already have? I actually, I podcast. I, In 2020, I applied for a PhD program

Stephanie: I see that all the time, Brie.

Brie: I thought it was going to qualify me,

Brie: and then I would feel more entitled to ask for more money.

Brie: And guess what? You would not, because I’m working with people. It makes it so much worse because now you have even more dead,

Stephanie: Yes.

Brie: which I still have. I still, I’m still,

Stephanie: And you still don’t know how to run a business.

Stephanie: With a Ph.

Brie: teach you that. They, it should be standard practice. They should be teaching graduate students how to run a business and they don’t, they just tell you’re not in this for the money.

Brie: And so, so yeah, so I opened up my body grievers program and accidentally made money and I was like, this is a fluke. Like this isn’t, isn’t gonna happen again. So I did it again and I was like, this is more money than I’ve ever seen in my lifetime. I was like, the government’s going to come for me.

Brie: they’re going to be like, who gave you this money? And it just so happened that a friend of mine started business coaching and I told her, and she’s like, this is not a fluke. This is what happens when you have a business. And so I said, how do I make this process repeatable? How do I make my income reliable? And so I started working with a business coach and was like, nobody ever taught me this.

Stephanie: there’s an actual formula to do this consistently.

Brie: Correct. That isn’t the extortion of my time because one on one alone is not reliable. I’ve been doing this exercise with people. I’ve been doing a couple of business intensives and it’s you know, I was doing 25 client hour weeks and then realized if I run a group program at half the cost, I can make the same amount of money in one hour of time instead of 20 hours of time, like the math is, but you also have to have the demand and you have to have the offering. it’s like throwing a party. You have to have the invite list and you have to have actually have the party, you have to throw the party. And I think a lot of people, they either have the demand, but they don’t have the party or they have the party.

Brie: And they’re like, come to my party, come to my group program. And then they’re like, why is nobody buying? Cause you’re not telling them about the party.

Stephanie: and I think that’s where body image comes in. Like, if you’re not owning your body and your voice, you’re not owning your space. People are not going to know you have a space.

Brie: Yeah. Yeah.

Stephanie: Because I see it when I coach business, because we have a, we have a business segment and it has nothing to do, as we know, with the size of the body.

Stephanie: It could be at any range of size. If you’re not confident in showing up in space, then your business is not going to thrive.

Brie: A hundred percent. I would say that my reputation preceded my financial revenue. I was already body imaged with Brie. And that contributed a lot to my financial success. But I’m also like a person who’s I need to deal in Actualities like I’m like, I, this, if I did not have those accidental months of making money, I would have been like, this is impossible because I’d never been there. I’d never

Stephanie: So you were body image with Bree just sharing without the revenue formula.

Brie: I was just

Stephanie: Oh, thank God you met that business coach.

Brie: I mean, and I honestly, like in the pandemic was absolutely atrocious and horrible and lives lost. But I think that if the pandemic hadn’t happened, I don’t know if I would have. I don’t know if I would have been brave enough to leave my quote unquote reliable job, because here’s the other thing, especially in the health and wellness field, my ego was stroked by the fact that I knew I was doing good work.

Brie: And by the fact that people were like, wow, this is so helpful, but there was a safety and yep. Okay. And if I lose this one, I don’t even have a wait list. Cause I knew that I was in demand. It’s such a much more vulnerable experience to be like, and I’m going to charge money and I might get rejected and that rejection isn’t about me. The rejection doesn’t mean that I am not good, that I am not worthy, that my, what I have to offer isn’t valuable and yet it still will hit upon those same self esteem gremlins that my body image once struggled with.

Stephanie: Yeah, our money stories I find is a direct correlation to all the socialization to diet culture and body image. We are, and we were talking about that before starting to record, like we’re thinking as making money as a zero sum game. if I, if I ask and get money, I’m stealing money from someone. Instead of being a collaborative effort, I offer value, I get money for the value. And that person is happy to give, solve their problem because they’re getting value from it.

Brie: one of the like reframes that I had to come up with, like the impactful reframes that I had to tell myself was that. My worth is not greater when I’m giving.

Stephanie: Ooh.

Brie: is not greater when I’m giving, and that healthy relationships are equal parts giving and receiving.

Stephanie: Repeat that last one.

Brie: Healthy relationships are equal parts giving and receiving. I am a great giver.

Stephanie: So true. That’s what I just said in other words, like it’s value shared,

Brie: Exact, exactly. I am such a good giver. I struggle with receiving and it used to be like when people would compliment me, I would reject it. I’d be like, Ooh, no, I can’t. I can’t accept that. But I love giving people words of affirmation. When I healed my body image, I started to be like, no, you know what?

Brie: I received that. I can take that. And then when someone’s Oh, I want to pay you. I’m like, no, no, no, no, no, no, it’s okay. Do you know that nobody tells me that I could raise my rates anymore? That’s not a compliment I get anymore.

Stephanie: really.

Brie: that’s okay, because I believe that the investment that I, or the price that I have said, this is what my time is valued at. And we could actually have a whole other podcast on this too, of like

Stephanie: Mm hmm.

Brie: time for money. Right? I don’t believe that my time is worth an hour, because when it comes down to it, a 1 on 1 session is more than just 1 hour. Right? There’s so much that goes into it.

Stephanie: There’s all the work you’ve done to create your own body image, your framework, the mindset clean up before the session and the processing of the session.

Brie: The, the administrative part of it contacted, but there’s so much that goes into it, but that when I’m going into session. I’m going in excited because I know that it is an equal exchange of they’re showing up and I’m being paid

Stephanie: And can we also layer in that you’re raising your rate because you’re more skilled too. You’ve been doing that for years.

Brie: and I didn’t realize this either. That like when you were in demand, right? Not having a wait list used to be an ego stroke for me, but what that meant was that. The only thing I could do was split myself even more to make myself more accessible and that the way we do it equitably is by creating multiple ways for people to work with me. So I’m sure similarly, I have low cost offers. that are as low as 17.

Stephanie: Yep.

Brie: have free resources that I give everything away. I don’t want you to pay me for my knowledge. I want you to pay me for the implementation. I want you to pay me to partner with you. And I have programs that are several thousand dollars for those that can make that investment. And it’s something I’m still working on. I know that’s something that you are super passionate about of Making sure that your program is rooted in anti racism and not in the patriarchy and making it equitable and accessible. One of my favorite people to learn about from money is Rachel Rogers.

Brie: And one of the things she says is that when women make money, we invest 90 percent of that money back into our communities versus men who invest about 30.

Stephanie: Yeah, Patriarchy. Right? Because matriarchy gives it

Brie: Yeah.

Stephanie: like for me, I do scholarship. I do like different things where people can get more access. I get another podcast started and I produce it so I don’t have to do it. Likeso many things we do. I don’t want to say right, but to help more people.

Brie: love that. I love

Stephanie: But when people sit with you for an hour one on one, they will get more skilled and probably faster benefit. I don’t want to say result, but faster benefit just because you’re that skilled.

Brie: a greater ROI,

Stephanie: Absolutely.

Brie: return of investment.

Stephanie: a one hour with you versus a coach who just started will be completely different. The coach will take three sessions to get to where you go into one session.

Brie: and as somebody who,I don’t know if you’re familiar with the Enneagram. I mean, I identify as an Enneagram too, which means I am the helper. I love to give my eye makes me happy to give I remember meeting with an anti racism supervisor and was like, I am giving beyond what I can and needing that unconditional permission to be like, I need to sort my house out first. Seeing the work that I’m doing, the pro bono work that I’ve done or that I’m doing is a form of giving and that there has to be a way to protect my nervous system so that I can continue to help people.

Stephanie: So talking about quotes and people that we get mentorship from for me, it’s Kelly deals, the feminist business coach and said, there’s no feminist business without a feminist being taken care of first. So if you’re working, like, way too many hours and not making enough money and stress about money, like, how is that? Anti oppressive business. how is that helping you? Who’s going to take care of you?

Brie: and even for me, that hits on some of my own wounding of you know, part of the thing I’ve been sharing on Instagram recently is like the 19 year old Brie needed a fat, positive advocate in her life. And because she didn’t exist. I became her.

Stephanie: Yeah, are a leader.

Stephanie: By you living your best life, are inspiring thousands of women who think they can’t do it.

Brie: Yeah. Yeah. And that you and I are not the goal post. Like you don’t have to make your own fat positive business if you don’t want to, but the invitation is there.

Stephanie: And I’ll say, it doesn’t have to be about business. I always say to people, like, if you want to be a mom and you want to homeschool your kids, that’s your best life. Mine is travel. What’s yours?

Brie: I love that. I love that. yeah, I think mine keeps changing. I know for me. One of my, you know, in my history of wanting a home base, I have not felt home for years in just for a lot of reasons. And this year, I’m going to cry again.

Stephanie: you just bought a house,

Brie: I just bought a house and that would not have been possible without my business. when I was actually looking into buying a house in 2020 and looking into buying a house now, I was offered over 250, 000 more dollars to borrow just because of my business. Now, again, that doesn’t mean that I could buy that much. I was like, I still know what I make and what I need to survive and not wanting to.

Brie: You know, be panicked or worry about money, you know, when you’re looking at buying a house and you say, okay, here’s my budget, you’re usually buying below your budget. So with that small budget, I was looking at things even less. I was like, I’m going to live in a cardboard box. that’s what I can afford as a single person in a very expensive state. And so to be able to buy a house. In this state, by myself, no romantic partner, that’s my dream, that I did it,

Stephanie: Yeah, that’s your best life right now at this stage. And then your retreat last week or last month was the next level. What’s the next one?

Brie: You know what? I haven’t even thought about it yet.

Stephanie: You’re still running the high of the

Brie: when your dreams come true, it’s like, what’s next? II don’t know, but the possibility is what’s so beautiful

Stephanie: What was the absence of limitation now?

Brie: about it. Oh! Woo! Absence of limitation. Yeah.

Stephanie: Because that’s what body image does to us. Is it like sets preset limitation?

Brie: and I think even just going back to what you said before of and for you, like for me going to Costa Rica on a retreat, but it was mobility, there was one excursion that I had done that, would never want to go. What’s the thing when the zip lining that would never, never appeal to me.

Brie: But somebody else was like, wow, that makes me really sad that I, I’m not like, I can’t because of my body size. I’m like, I’m not, I’m not grieving that because I wouldn’t want to do it anyway.

Stephanie: yeah.

Brie: And there’s space for that. And then this is where my business brain kicks in because I asked them, why is there a weight limit? For zip lining, and they said, literally it’s inertia. They haven’t figured out a way to suspend or slow a body down when it’s zip lining. And so it’s dangerous for you because of the speed you’re going. So my business brain is like, somebody just needs to create an innovation like they have the gear.

Brie: You can do the gear. It’s just about slowing you down. And so when I started seeing. What used to be as like, Oh, this is a problem of, Ooh, this is a problem that has a solution. I just need somebody who’s in a, I need it. I need an engineer,

Stephanie: Yeah, you need to do a pitch to an engineer.

Brie: And I don’t know if you experienced this as well, like a lot of the. The people that come into my world with body image are some of the most incredible, badass human beings. I’m like, that is so like you build bridges for a living. that is so cool. And yet there are these wounds that are like fifth grade wounds of like, but what if people don’t like me? And it’s keeping them limited.

Stephanie: 100%. It’s the, call it, like, the thought curve limitation that just has been embedded in your brain. Everything like, put your eyes on, you’re like, but how am I limiting? How am I limited to do that?

Brie: Yes.

Stephanie: So, when you take off those glasses, the world becomes your oyster.

Brie: and I don’t know. So are you familiar with the process of neuroplasticity? Right? So neuroplasticity is this concept that our beliefs can change. And the way I like to think of it is like, So if you have a, if you think about like when a, when an idea or a thought comes into your head and it’s linked to a thought pattern or behavior, it’s like a stream. There is a stream that is already formed. So I think many of us have grown up thinking, Oh, I’m in a fat body. This is my fault. This is the stream that I am. deferred to

Stephanie: A hundred percent.

Brie: through time, time, active, unlearning community. All of those things can create a new neural pathway. And you and I are both evidence of that.

Stephanie: And no matter what age you are. Like, there’s no limit to neuroplasticity.

Brie: yeah.

Stephanie: like, you could be listening to this and you’re 60 years old and you’re like, but that doesn’t work for me because, no, neuroplasticity is there your whole life, you just have to know how to activate it and work with it.

Brie: And what I would say too, from a grief perspective is it might be harder for you the older you are, because if you think about a mess, like to call it the conditioning of diet culture, right? If somebody like myself, I was conditioned for 30 years and got out in 30 years, right? So now I’m going to get to live the rest of my life as my best life.

Brie: Somebody who’s learning this at 60, you’ve been conditioned for 60 years. So it’s going to be harder for you to unlearn that. And I’ll just share a quick testimony. I had two people. I did not anticipate crying all of the emotions coming out today, Steph.

Stephanie: make you cry all over the place

Brie: I cry always with gratitude. that is my, my, my signature.

Brie: I’m like, wow, I’m so grateful. I had two people on my trip who were older, who had never worn a bathing suit on a vacation before, and they came down to the pool the first day, and neither of them put their bathing suit on, and they fucking did it together. And that will be a core memory in my mind, that we Facilitated that by showing up in the suck, in the struggle, everything became worth it for me in that moment to see the healing that was produced for them.

Stephanie: This is powerful. this medium of this retreat that is your dream. Can you just appreciate, like, you made you live your dream, but what is the impact?

Brie: And I think this is the piece of grief, right? I think this is a universal question of what is the point of suffering? What is the point of hurting and philosophers will study this for the rest of time. And Elizabeth Cooper Ross says she’s the creator of, the stages of grief and there is no silver lining.

Brie: There is no, you know, but okay, what can we look forward to? Or what’s the gratitude? But when you have experienced grief, it allows you to connect to other people who are grieving. And her phrase is, when grief is shared, grief is evaded.

Stephanie: You know, I just wrote an email yesterday for a program that I’m launching in 2 weeks and I shared my thoughts as to how, like. What are my thoughts that are driving my business and 1 of them is what you said, but. Said another way, everything that happened to me happened for a reason.

Brie: Yes.

Stephanie: be here doing this program. With you,

Brie: And at the same time, saying that to somebody while they’re still in the struggle can feel like a silver lining, like it can feel like a dismissal of pain. But for you to say the journey has been worth it, that is the byproduct Of acceptance. It’s not, yay. I’m so glad I struggled. It’s wow. I struggled and I survived.

Stephanie: It was hard as

Brie: It was hard as fuck. And I am, I have not only survived, but I am thriving now.

Stephanie: Yeah. We’re going to end this conversation on this for now, because I’m sure we can have Many more. I appreciate so much the time that you spent with us today.

Brie: Thank you for having me.

Stephanie: I respect your work. I’ve learned a ton from listening to you answering my question, and I really appreciate you, Bri. Thank

Stephanie: you.

Brie: appreciate you. Thank you, Stephanie.

 

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379-Diet-Culture Free Budgeting with Chelsea Hester-Bradt

379-Diet-Culture Free Budgeting with Chelsea Hester-Bradt

Diet-Culture free budgeting

The parallels between diet culture and the “traditional ways” women are taught to engage with money are too plentiful.

Over the years of working with women on intuitive eating and body image it has become evident to me that working on a money mindset was the next step for my clients.

I myself have had to do a lot of unlearning with finances and money from my years of training in the corporate world and most recently I have begun budgeting my personal finances.

Diet-Culture free budgeting 

Today on the podcast I am interviewing an expert on this exact topic Chelsea Hester-Bradt. She is a Certified Intuitive Eating Counselor and Certified YNAB Budget Coach with a masters degree in Clinical Mental Health Counseling.

She supports clients in moving away from shame and “shoulds” towards a more compassionate and flexible relationship with food, their body, and finances.

What you’ll learn listening to this episode on diet-culture free budgeting:

  • The surprising parallels between diet-culture and traditional budgeting methods. 
  • A new way to think and engage with money
  • How to use YNAB to change your relationship to money

Mentioned in the show: 

FREE YNAB Workshop from Chelsea

Undiet Your Life Program

Non-Diet Coaching Certification

Connect with our guest:

Website – Chelsea Hester-Bradt

Instagram – Chelsea Hester-Bradt

Transcript

Going Beyond The Food Show 379-Diet-Culture Free Budgeting with Chelsea Hester-Bradt

This is episode 379 of the beyond the food show. And today we’re going to talk about budgeting, not budgeting macro budgeting money in a diet culture freeway with our guests. Chelsea Esther, stay tuned.

Hello, my sisters and welcome back to the podcast. I’m going to talk about budgeting today. We’ve never talked about this in almost seven years existence of this podcast, because I couldn’t find someone who was diet, Culture free, oppression free in the way that she coached budgeting for women. And I found her.

I found the gem, Chelsea Hester, who is an intuitive eating counselor who gets how women are impacted by diet culture well beyond the food. And as soon as I found her, I’m like, you have come on the podcast and talk to my sisters. And here we are today, we’re going to talk about budgeting. And I’m going to share my personal story of budgeting, because I’ve been on the budgeting journey since January 1, 2023.

And it’s very interesting what I’ve discovered about myself in this journey. Now, just before we move into this very interesting and educational conversation around budgeting, I want to give you a heads up for all of you that are listening to this podcast that are provider or coaches in the health spectrum, life coaching, counseling, and want to study with us inside the non diet coaching certification.

It is enrollment season for cohort number nine. Yep, four years of teaching professional how to help women with the non diet approach. So if you want to be part of co op number nine, we have an early enrollment period that’s going to start October 28, 2023. So in. Seven days, you’re going to have access to early enrollment, which will give you access to two very powerful, lack of better word, bonus.

One being a eight month extended payment plan at no additional cost to you. So we take the price of the tuition divided by eight, and that’s what you pay. And we also going to give you the jumpstart program, which is a. process that I created for you to start studying the different module of the certification ahead of time.

And I help you craft a individualized path of learning for you based on an assessment that we do together. So that’s the jumpstart program. So as soon as you pay your first incentive. Ment of your tuition, we give you your id and then we give you your link to your private student portal and you can get started.

So if that is, you know that you need to get yourself on the wait list. So the link to the non diet coaching certification wait list will be in the so note and. I can’t wait to work with you, starting January 4th, 2024. Okay, my sister, let’s talk about budgeting and money with Chelsea Ester. We will roll the interview for you.

Stephanie: Welcome to the show, Chelsea.

Chelsea: Hello. Thank you so much for letting me be here. It’s an honor.

Stephanie: it’s very exciting for me. I have personally been looking forward to this episode and picking your brain on budgeting because I have my own Stephanie’s way. And I’m, I’m really curious to see if the, your way, the YNAB way is a solution for many of our listeners. So let’s talk about how you came into the world of budgeting as a certified intuitive eating counselor and what is it that you teach exactly?

Chelsea: Yeah. Okay, well, like you said, I’m a certified intuitive eating counselor, my training, I have my master’s in counseling, in clinical mental health, and worked with eating disorders before going the coaching route, so that was my first passion, my first love, about six years ago, I was hanging out with a fellow So, Eating disorder therapist who she whipped out her YNAB app and started like logging her finances and I was like, whoa, Whoa, doesn’t that feel like a diet to you?

Chelsea: Like I’ve never seen someone in the eating disorder world logging their finances because my association with budgeting is that it’s restrictive and resembles a diet and Feels very limiting and scary. And so six years ago, long story short, she turned me on to YNAB. I was hooked. I have ADHD. So that became my hyper focus of the year.

Chelsea: And I guess it’s still kind of is, but I did a deep dive into YNAB, became their biggest fan, love it, love it, love it. And then it wasn’t until last year that I started realizing the parallels and the overlap. A lot of my clients were talking about their relationship with money, marrying their relationship with food.

Chelsea: And at the same time, YNAB created this coaching certification program. So they basically said, we want to train people to go out into the world and teach our software because we don’t have the capacity to do that. On the individual level. So I went through the YNAB coaching certification program last year, and that opened up this branch of my business and it’s been going great and I love it.

Chelsea: And yeah, so I do one on one YNAB coaching. YNAB is absolutely a tool that you can pursue on your own. What is YNAB?

Stephanie: We’re using the like acronym here. Let’s go to the, what the heck is YNAB?

Chelsea: What the heck is YNAB? It stands for you need a budget. So Y N A B, you need a budget. and it’s a web app. The web version is very robust, but then it’s also a mobile app.

Chelsea: So you can use it on your phone as well. so anyone who’s listening today, you can sign up for YNAB. I have full faith that you can do it on your own. YNAB has lots of free resources on their website to help guide you in setting it up. And a lot of people have complex financial situations and don’t want to spend hours watching YouTube videos on learning how to use it.

Chelsea: So that’s one reason people would book me. Also… Because of my training and counseling, I support people emotionally with money. So if even just turning towards a budget brings up emotions for people, I help them with that as well. So that that would be the reason someone would work with me rather than just setting it up on their own, which anyone’s welcome to do.

Stephanie: So let’s talk about the parallel between budgeting. You use a great example, right? Whipping up your app to like, log in your financial transaction, just like we used to do with pulling up an app and logging in our calories. Yep. That’s a great analogy. Why is it? Like, what drives people in their relationship to money to use a budget altogether and not use a budget? Like, how do you see those parallel in your practice?

Chelsea: Yeah, I think that a lot of budgets do. Almost identically mirror a diet where you have a set amount, you know, you’re supposed to stay within a certain amount of money, just like you’re supposed to stay within a certain amount of calories, and if you go over, there’s a lot of shame, a lot of it’s like, retroactive, where you look back at the end of the month, and you’re just like, wow, I really messed up, and Then there’s the, I hear a lot of the like, well I blew it, you know, I blew past, I was supposed to only spend 100 on groceries and I spent 200, so the like, screw it mentality, the kind of like, Like we do with food of like, well, I went over and now I might as well spend a thousand dollars.

Chelsea: Right. Cause I blew it. So I think there’s often a lot of that and then YNAB. So there’s two aspects. YNAB itself, the software functions differently than any other budgeting app I’ve met and, or worked with. And so I can talk about that in a minute, but I think specifically to intuitive eating, I think of YNAB as.

Chelsea: Meal planning rather than dieting where with intuitive eating and not everybody meal plans and that’s fine. But I think a common question is like, can I meal plan and intuitive eater? Can there be any sort of structure to my eating without it feeling like a diet and without any sort of meal plan? Or I use that term very loosely.

Chelsea: A lot of people just open up their refrigerator and there’s like a sense of overwhelm now that I can eat all foods. I don’t even know where to start. There’s overwhelm. I can have anything. And I think that if you look at your checking account and there’s no sort of structure or plan or an idea, an intention with the money, just like we have intentions with the food of like, I hope to use up these ingredients over the week, right?

Chelsea: Like it doesn’t have to be rigid. So I think of YNAB as creating that structure that I think most people do need. Too much freedom is creates overwhelming chaos, and then too much restriction can lead to living a very rigid, fearful, guilt and shame ridden life. And so I think of YNAB as like the structure that many of us need with our finances, and then the software itself is just very different.

Chelsea: you want me to get into like what the software is?

Stephanie: Well yeah, before we get into the software, I just want to say What comes up to my mind as you describe this approach to budgeting is, you know, when we look at the eating pendulum and intuitive eating, we, like, restrict on one side of the pendulum and then we, like, free for all, like, binge on the other side. And then through the process of intuitive eating, we land in the middle ground. It’s not black. It’s not white. It’s the gray. Where we can eat everything we want, but we still have gentle nutrition. So we could say gentle budgeting. Yes. Yes, yes, yes. Right. So, and I want to say to my own experience, it was my first time years ago in the corporate world.

Stephanie: We, I used to do so much budgeting in my job that with my money was like, fuck this shit. I’m not budgeting anything. And then in the last year when I was working with my accountant for my business and like, how much do you want to get paid? I don’t know. He’s like, what, how much do you spend in your expense?

Stephanie: I don’t know. Cause it was a free for all. I just had, I moved money from the business to the personal when I needed it. It’s like, that’s not how you need to do this. We need some structure, right? So I put in budget, but they were flexible, right? So, and that really for me resonate as gentle nutrition. I need to eat vegetables and fruit, but it’s not going to be eight cups a day.

Stephanie: Yes. Does that make sense? Yes. Absolutely. It could be two cups one day and then ten cups the next day and I don’t measure it. It’s just volume of vegetables. Okay, so let’s talk about the software, how it is different than other budgeting software.

Chelsea: Yeah, so they have what they call the method. And there’s Like four rules, four principles of that method.

Chelsea: The first one is give every dollar a job. So this, I would say is the biggest difference. So anytime you have an inflow of money, or if you’re right, when you’re starting out with YNAB, whatever the current amount of money in your checking account is the money that you work with and you give every one of those dollars.

Chelsea: A job. So you have your categories, you know, dining out gas, Broadway shows. I live in New York city. It’s my favorite thing. Right. So I have those categories and I go through and I say, okay, I want to put a hundred dollars into groceries. I want to put a hundred into Broadway. You go through, that in and of itself, there’s intention and it helps you clarify your priorities. And you really are looking at like, I have this money. What do I want to do with it? And how do I want it to. serve me and give me the most fulfilling, joyful life. And I think that’s a really big difference too, is why not places such emphasis on honoring your priorities, your joy, your values. There are no shoulds.

Chelsea: There’s no, you need to put a certain amount into savings or you need to be paying off your debt at this rapid pace. it’s very fluid and flexible and honors what’s important to you. And they recognize that. What’s important to you may not be what society deems as the like quote unquote best way to spend your money, right?

Stephanie: 20 percent of your income should go to this and 18. 5 to this. Like the Dave Ramsey approach of very structural, that is not how this application works.

Chelsea: Not at all. Not at all. So you’re getting the very first thing people do when they encounter the app is soul searching. The very first thing they do is because they’re saying, I have a thousand dollars in my checking account.

Chelsea: Where do I want that money to go? And then, so then you distribute it down and then you live your life. And as you’re spending money, you’re seeing, Oh, okay. Right now I have 500 available in groceries. I’m going to go spend that. If you get to a point where you don’t have the money that you want in that category, you have a choice.

Chelsea: You can either choose to not. buy the thing or you can move it from another category. So YNAB flexibility is key and without judgment or shame. And that is all over their messaging is move the money without guilt, without feeling like you messed up. It’s just, Oh, actually I do want to go out to eat more this month than I thought I would.

Chelsea: I’m going to pull that from my clothes category because I don’t need a new dress. This month, but I do want to go out with my friends tonight. so there’s the flexibility piece and a big difference in the like proactive assigning of money is very different than most budgeting apps where it’s retroactive, where you’re just spending your money and then you look back and you’re like, Oh, shoot, I met quote unquote messed up.

Chelsea: Oh, man. And then that’s where the like, I blew it. I can’t budget this. I’m not cut out for this. And so YNAB puts you in relation with your money every day. And I think that is something that I connect parallel with intuitive eating as well as like, bringing you into relationship with your body, bringing you into relationship with food, bringing you into relationship with your money.

Chelsea: Where it’s not something that you are like the puppeteer trying to control. From the outside. It’s you asking, what do I want these dollars to do for me and what’s important to me? And so Yeah, there’s a couple, the other rules, are embrace your true expenses, which I don’t think has, I don’t know how much of a parallel I can draw to intuitive eating with that, but basically it says that most things in your life can be a monthly bill, like holiday gifts.

Chelsea: If you have holiday gifts coming up, rather than you waiting till December, November and being like, oh, shoot, I need to just find 1, 000 for gifts, you start dividing that up. And you set aside a hundred a month. And then when December rolls around, you have this nice, beautiful lump of money waiting for you.

Chelsea: So that’s another just, one of the method is you’re saving for those expenses along the way. and then the fourth part of the method is called age your money, which again, don’t necessarily have anything connected to intuitive eating with this, but it’s the idea. This is what gets you out of the paycheck to paycheck cycle where we’re wanting the money, the dollars that we make today in an ideal world.

Chelsea: To be, we’re budgeting them and assigning them to next month’s life, next month’s bills. So that there’s space between when you make money and when you spend it. So it’s the opposite of like, Oh, thank God I got paid today. I need to go give this check to my landlord right now. Right. Like that would be zero agency.

Chelsea: Yes. Yes. And so it’s. Taking that away, and that takes months of just time you, you know, switching, you’re switching your mode, you’re switching your relationship and used with money, and so that one just kind of naturally happens. It’s not really something you have to intentionally implement.

Stephanie: And I want to say to this, like, I’m into my 10th month, well, so whatever, we’re in September, so the 9th month of me using this app, which is not why now, because I didn’t know it existed, but think I’m going to switch next year, but this, it took me 11 months to like figure out my budget. That I felt good living with, that I could do everything that I wanted and not put money where I didn’t want it. So it takes time to construct. a spending and budgets that feel good to you.

Chelsea: Yes. Just like with intuitive eating, there’s going to be the trial and error. There’s going to be the like, well, I ate more. I ate beyond fullness. Whoops. That was slightly uncomfortable. Fine. We learned from it. We accept it. Right. Just as your When you’re breaking away from dieting, you’re, this idea that you’re just going to like magically know what your body wants at every moment in the exact amount is very unrealistic. Yeah, so it’s great.

Stephanie: And the way you’re speaking about it. Is the compassionate Ruth, instead of the like blaming, punishment, willpower. And that’s what I call the quote unquote, Dave Ramsey scream at you kind of world. It’s like, it’s okay to make mistakes. It’s okay to not hit, like, we’re just going to, how do we deal with that?

Stephanie: And that’s for me took like three months of me dealing with this budgeting app in a way that wasn’t my old wiring. You fucking messed up, you’re bad, you don’t know how to budget. Like it took me three months of rewiring my brain to deal with a budget in a non black and white way.

Chelsea: And isn’t it so interesting that you’ve done all of that work with food and then it didn’t just automatically transfer over to your relationship with money. You had to consciously work with it.

Stephanie: It was intentional. Like you talked about, I decided that 2023 was going to be my intentional personal finance year. Now I’ve got mindset skills and that I teach those skills. So I’m like a little bit more equipped, but it took me three months of getting off the old way of thinking about budget, the corporate way that I was training. So it does require effort. And it’s an intentional effort that you need to decide up front. You’re going to have to put some effort coaching yourself to change those ways. It’s not going to fall off the sky.

Stephanie: So we have this app. We have this philosophy. Now, what would be your advice to people who have done the work of diet culture? Forbidding, like moving away from diet culture and that mindset, the weight neutral approach to health. It would be a. Healthy money management routine

Chelsea: aside from using YNAB

Stephanie: or with using YNAB or what do you do for your money? Yeah.

Chelsea: Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think similar with food before we even start implementing. I mean, you can download YNAB right now and start implementing things, of course. And simultaneously, I think one of the first steps is becoming aware of what are your current beliefs around money and what are the rules?

Chelsea: Like, that’s one of the first things I do with my intuitive eating clients of like, what food rules are you still living by that you might not even realize? What are the shoulds? So I would ask people to start there, like as you’re embarking on This new relationship with money. Let’s be aware of what you’re bringing into it.

Chelsea: Like, what are the rules? What have you been told your whole life? You’re supposed, you know, quote unquote, supposed to do with money. What do you feel guilty about? What evokes guilt when you spend money on X? How does it make you feel when you spend money on this? How does it make you feel so right? Like bringing awareness to some of the stories and rules that you’re entering into this new relationship with money with.

Chelsea: And then in practice, I think, When you get paid, and you can do this with or without YNAB, when you get paid or today, just go open your checking account, look at that number that’s there, and try to assign purpose to those dollars. Really think about, the question in YNAB world that we ask ourselves is, what does this money need to do before next money arrives, before more money arrives?

Chelsea: So ask yourself, the money that you currently have, the real cash that’s in your possession, what does it need to do? Before more money arrives and just set that gentle awareness and intention of, yeah, I have to pay rent or I have this bill coming through. Oh, my sister’s getting married next week. Maybe set aside some money for that, but anything that’s going to happen in your life or on, you know, the next two weeks, the next month until you get paid.

Chelsea: And so bringing some awareness and intention to that. And then if you wanted to go the route. Of tracking, in a very gentle way, then I would say using YNAB, I find to be the easiest, or if you want to share what you use, that’s fine too, of course, but I personally wouldn’t want to do it via pen and paper. That seems laborious to me, or like a Google sheet.

Stephanie: I can’t do it in the line of a cash register because that’s where I do it. Like when I have downtime, I pull up my app and I like classify my expense on the go.

Chelsea: Yeah, yeah, right. So I think if you want, that would be another way to implement some change, would be as you’re spending to look at the category. You know, you’ve assigned 50 to clothes when you go buy your new dress, make a note that, okay, I spent the 50 that I’d assigned to clothes. If I want to buy more clothes before I get paid again, I’m going to need to find that money. And that’s the words we use. It’s not like, oh, I need, I did something wrong.

Chelsea: It’s just, I need to go find that money. Where do I want to pull it from if it’s not already here? You know, assigned to quote.

Stephanie: One question I asked myself, and that’s the reason why I came to the world of budgeting in January is. What do I want to create with my money? Right? Like everyone’s got their life and what they want to achieve in their life.

Stephanie: Like, what is it that I want to do with, because I couldn’t answer that question. Like I knew I wanted to do things, but I wasn’t planning ahead. Like I couldn’t do certain things because the money went somewhere else. So is that a good question to ask ourselves? What is it that I want to create with money? Yes.

Chelsea: That’s so beautiful. I think that hits on two things. One, it hits on. This idea of like, we’re taught to save, like, just put money into savings and nobody knows what they’re saving for. Like, people show me their savings account and I’m like, cool, what is that money for? And they’re like, I don’t know. I’m just supposed to save money. So I think, that’s getting to the heart of like, what are we saving for and come up with something really specific. And then I think, so that’s one aspect of why I think that question’s beautiful. And then I think the other aspect is because if you know what you want to create, say it’s very important for you to create, bring I don’t know. A new non profit into the world. Who knows? That’s very big. You can create much smaller things too, but say that’s your dream. Travel holiday somewhere. Travel holiday somewhere.

Chelsea: That’s, love it. So you want to go on holiday somewhere. And then, right now, you’re walking the streets of New York City and you’re wondering, Should I go see this Broadway show? Well, you now have a question of priorities and neither one is wrong, but it makes it a lot easier to say, like, it feels different in your body.

Chelsea: In the diet world, you would say, No, I can’t go see a Broadway show. I don’t have enough money for that. I can’t afford it, right? It’s that line. I hate that line. I can’t afford it. That’s not true. It’s actually, oh, well, I’d rather prioritize my holiday right now.

Stephanie: It’s a choice instead of I have to. Yes. So, are you saying, in a way, that there is no budgeting rules? You get to make your own? Absolutely. I think that’s the big shift here, because for many of us, we just assume that there has to be budgeting rules. Now, the way you’re presenting this is, we get to make the rules. Yes.

Chelsea: You get to make the rules, and that’s why I think structure is helpful, because similarly with intuitive eating, when you say there’s no rules, a lot of my clients are like, well, that’s scary, right? Like, I, that’s why I think diets are appealing to some degree, is because they provide the structure, and people wake up knowing, this is what I need to do. Oh, this is how I’m going to eat, and that gives them some predictability. Some peace of mind. So if we’re taking the rules away, we need to create some sort of structure that leaves us from like flailing around being like, well, if there are no rules, I don’t know what I’m supposed to do.

Stephanie: And moves you from living a life of, I have to, to living a life of you choosing what you’re going to do in your life, using your money. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Can we ask one more question? What about debts? That’s a hot topic, both in the business world that I coach and here, like people are thought debts is bad. It’s a rule. What is your thoughts on that?

Chelsea: Well, we don’t use the word bad, right? There’s no good or bad for one. And so with debt, a lot of times debt is created, well, I guess almost always. By nature, debt is created when there isn’t enough money to cover what you’re wanting to live. So the emphasis in YNAB first is learning to spend real money.

Chelsea: And that’s what I call like the money that’s in your checking account. And that goes back to what I’ve been saying of like we assign jobs. To those dollars so that when it comes time for my holiday, I know I have that real money for that. So preventing debt, I guess you could say, is where we start because a lot of the cycle that I see people in is, Oh, I’m going, I get the big old paycheck and I’m just going to throw it towards my credit card debt.

Chelsea: Yeah. Because I feel like I’m supposed to. And then I have zero dollars in my checking account. And so I just keep living on no money, and I create more debt, right? Like, it doesn’t get you anywhere, you just feel like you’re doing what you’re supposed to do. I have money, and I put it towards my debt, but then I don’t have any money to actually live on.

Chelsea: So, first shift is to practice. Living with the money that you currently have, and that might mean you are not paying down your debt. It just might, because you’re building a new skill of, I’m learning to live and spend real money. Can you use credit cards? Absolutely. You just want to spend money on your credit card that you have available in your checking account to then put towards your credit card.

Chelsea: So not anti credit cards, but so I’d say that’s the skill we want to build that skill so that we’re not just throwing money at our debt, but we’re actually learning how can I live a lifestyle that long term is going to prevent more debt. And then as we gain awareness of how much extra cash flow do you have?

Chelsea: Great. Do you want to put some towards your debt? Do you want to? Is that important to you? Sure, you need to pay, like, your minimums. Like, I mean, I’m, you know, we want people to not include penalty fees or things like that. Like, if you need to pay your minimum or if there are some legitimate have tos, then we account for that.

Chelsea: But there’s no expectation that you need to just come in with, like, your main goal to be pay off your debt. I always ask people, is that important to you? And if it’s, if it is, in what timeline and how much Of your life, you know, how much are you willing to say, I’m not going to go on this holiday right now because it’s important to me to pay down my debt quickly versus I’m not on, I’m not in a rush.

Chelsea: I want to go on this holiday. And that means my debt, you know, I’ll pay it off more slowly.

Stephanie: And it comes back to the very beginning of the podcast, which was about. Looking at your relationship to money and choosing what you’re going to believe about your money, including that does not have to be shameful and bad and terrible and make you feel less than that can be neutral.

Stephanie: You get to choose what you think of that. Yes. Amazing. So people are hearing that they’re like, Oh, like that’s my next step. Like I’ve done the food thing that like the body image thing and I’d like you just broke my mind that I can think what I want about my budget. I’d love to do that. So what’s the next step to come into your world?

Chelsea: Yeah. on my. Website. So I recently led a workshop called why not one on one? Very amazing.yeah, yeah. I go over. It’s like, I would say it’s literally the next step to this conversation where I’m going. I it’s a I’m screen sharing the software. I’m giving people an idea of what does this actually look like?

Chelsea: You’ve heard me talk about these concepts? What does it look like on the screen? so that’s a free workshop available on my website under the free resources. Resources. page,

Chelsea: My website is chelseahester. com. Perfect. chelseahester. com. And if you wanted to go to the direct page, it’s chelseahester. com slash free. Dash resources. Perfect.

Stephanie: We go there, we get that workshop, and that is the next step to this conversation. You have like packages and things you can like if somebody’s like I want to get this done the right way and I want to do it with someone you have packages to walk people through this and coach them through this and I want to say like How I see Chelsea being more than the average budget coach is the whole mindset piece because that’s what you’re trained.

Stephanie: You’re a certified health counselor, no,mental counselor. Yeah. Yeah. Right. So you can really do that work of looking at your belief with money plus easing your way into budgeting.

Chelsea: Yep. And that package, it’s a one month. it’s called the setup package. And there’s zoom calls, which are like the software and the teaching and the getting everything set up. But part of that package is unlimited boxer support, which is like a walkie talkie app. So for the month, and that’s where a lot of that mindset work comes up. That’s where people message me and are like, I’m scared to look at my budget, or I feel really guilty that I just. Went to a concert over the weekend and I’m like, I feel really guilty about it. And then we talk about it. Right. So that’s, I think one of my favorite parts of what I offer is that boxer support, because that is where we can have more of the conversations about mindset, emotions, working through things. and then of course there’s like the zoom calls, which we do the screen sharing and the diving into the budget.

Stephanie: And I just want to say to people, like, Would I not be a professional at mindset work? I would definitely go into that one month with you because it would give me the skill to like manage my mind. That’s my privilege of being what I do for a living. I was able to come into the world of budgeting and make that easy for me. But if you don’t have those skills, like go get that one month package because you’re going to need it. Guaranteed. It was a pleasure having you here.

Chelsea: Yeah. Thank you so much. This is like one of my favorite conversations I’ve ever had because it’s blending my passions and my love and yes,

Stephanie: we are like, I want to address different part of life. Like there’s going to be more interview coming in, in weeks to come because what we find to be the problem with diet culture and food and body, trust me, it’s everywhere in our life. Like we got to deconstruct many aspects of our life, including the way we approach money. Thank you. Thank you.

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378-The #1 Health Habit For Women

378-The #1 Health Habit For Women

The #1 Health Habit For Women

The #1 health habit for women that no one considers but that has the greatest impact on our well being is the habit of cultivating a kind, compassion and loving inner narrative.

How we talk in the secrecy of our mind generates the feelings we experience towards ourselves. The range of emotions we experience then generate our behaviors.

The #1 health habit for women

Otherwise, our health habits are generated from the way we feel about ourselves. For many of us who have been under the influence of diet culture the way we think and feel about ourselves isn’t very productive and too often leads to self-sabotage instead of self-motivation.

What you’ll learn listening to this episode:

  • What is the #1 health habit for women no one considers but has the greatest impact on women’s well being.
  • How to adopt this health habit easily

Mentioned in the show: 

Health Habits Checklist

Undiet Your Life Program

Non-Diet Coaching Certification

Transcript

GBTF378-The #1 Health Habit For Women

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This is episode 378 of the Beyond the Food Show and today we’re going to talk about the number one health habit for women that no one is considering. and why it has the most impact on our well being. Let’s do this.

Hey, my sisters, welcome back to the podcast. This is likely going to be one of the shortest episodes I ever recorded, because I want to get straight to the point. And I want to uncomplicate this process of thinking about which health habit is most important for us as women to consider and to work on getting in our habit portfolio.

So I’m going to go straight to the point here. And as a clinical nutritionist who has worked with women who have been dieting for years, what I consider the number one health habit that has the most impact on our well being and that unfortunately no one talks about. You ready? The way we talk to ourselves.

in our mind, the way that we meet ourselves, the way that we cultivate our internal dialogues, our mindset, the way we think about ourselves. That’s what I consider to be the number one habit that women have to onboard. Let me explain to you why. So, I’m a 47 year old woman who is in the age of perimenopause and I’m going through perimenopause and when I look at social media, when I read articles and blogs about health for women in my period of age, what I keep hearing all the time is, you need to eat more protein, you need to do muscle building exercise, which is fine and dandy, which is absolutely true.

Right? We talked about that with the menopause nutritionist a few episodes ago. I think it was last episode. Yeah, it is true that we need to consume more protein. And it is true that there’s extreme value in having a muscle building workout routine. But guess what? Executing on these habits, these other habits, require one thing.

It requires you cultivating a supportive, motivating, kind, internal dialogue. I’ve been teaching habitsin my prior career, in the context of working in a corporate structure and working in sales and implementing sales plan, which In order for us to execute the sales plan, we needed daily habits in our businesses that I was supervising in order to generate the revenue.

And it’s the same thing when it comes to your health. We know from science that there’s a number of habits like eating enough food, like moving your body that we need to implement in our life in order for us to live. a full life to have access to the full potential of our health that is accessible to us.

But in order to create that behavior on a long term spectrum, meaning you’re gonna show up moving your body two to three times a week for the rest of your life. Not five or six times a week for six months because you are on a plan, but instead moving your body however, that brings joy to you for the rest of your life consistently.

These are long term behavior that needs to become part of who we are. I have been teaching people how to do that in the context of business and for the last Eight years now in the context of health, specifically for women who have been under the influence of diaculture and have been dieting and restricting for a long time.

So I have a very niche specialty and I can tell you, I have written books about how to like onboard new habits. I’ve given classes, forums, seminars. I can give the most detailed protocol. for women to onboard health habit, but if they don’t have that one habit on generating an inner conversation with themselves that is kind and compassionate, no habit will be onboarded long term.

And we know that, not just from my experience, we know that from science, we know that from research, the field of cognitive behavioral. therapy or coaching in the case of what we do in my world. We use cognitive behavioral modeling, which is a field of research linked to the science of understanding the behaviors of human being.

When you look at the field of research on cognitive behavioral Modeling or coaching, what you find is that human behavior, like walking, moving your body, eating enough food, mental health, emotional health, what creates consistency is not a rigid plan, a list of things to do, it’s creating a motivational feeling, a excitement, joyful In looking to create and having the behavior, it’s being excited about doing the thing.

It’s looking forward to moving your body, not, Oh, I have to do this. Oh my God, I don’t want to go there, but I just have to. Go there, which is how I used to be when it came to health behavior because it was associated with shrinking my body and suffering and all the things that diaculture taught us. So having to learn to be excited about moving my body, Oh my God, that took some work.

And the work had to do with me generating. inner feeling of excitement, of motivation, of support, kindness, and compassion towards myself. I needed to change the way I thought about myself, the way I thought about my health the way that I thought about my health behavior. I had to change the narrative from I have to I choose to.

And that was a lot of reprogramming because in my case, 25 years of I have to, I had to, I should, needed a lot. Like literally hundreds and hundreds of repetition of me saying no, no, no, no, I choose to go for a walk because I enjoy walking while listening to a podcast. I had to literally retrain my brain to think about habits to think about myself.

I want to take care of my body. I am worthy to take care of my body. Even if I don’t lose weight, I am worthy to invest time and resources in generating more strength in my body, even though I’m going to remain fat. Like I had to change the way that I taught about myself in the context of my health and in the context of me not doing it the way that I thought it should be.

So as I’m recording this episode right now, and for those of you who perhaps are watching me on video, I’m looking in a different direction right now. I’m looking at my habit. Tracker, because I track habits at the beginning of my journey of learning habit. This is something that I’m teaching to people when I teach about health habit.

By the way, if you are joining on Diet Your Life, if you’re joining us live the 13th, you will be able to attend live. We’re talking 2023, by the way. I don’t know when you’re listening to this, but if you’re joining on diet your life before October 13, 2023, you’ll be able to join us in October and November as I teach health habits school.

And that’s one of the thing I’m going to teach in there is pick one habits, one, not 10 or 15. One habit and then set a goal with something called minimum baseline. That’s a tool that I teach. And then track it. And the reason why you want to track, so I’m tracking right now two habits that I’ve unboarded over the last six months.

One being as a result of a knee injury that I had, we diagnosed, the physical therapy team diagnosed a bunch of imbalances in my legs and they gave me a series of mobility exercise to do and strengthening and stretching exercise and, Quite honestly, this is going to be for years to come that I’m going to have to do them.

So about four months ago, I started to build a habit to do these mobility exercise, once a day. So four months ago, I emboarded this new habit of doing these exercise. And about a month ago, I wanted to on board the enjoyment of walking. Not walking to exercise or to move my body as a way of regulating my nervous system, calming down, processing my thoughts.

It’s more of a mental health and emotional health than it is for physical health. Long story short, I started to track that. So I’m looking at my wall right now with my habits, and I have a goal for each habit, right? I want to walk three times a week at the end of the day, and I want to stretch once a day, six days a week.

And I don’t do it. I don’t stretch six days a week. I just started walking for nervous system regulation and I don’t walk three times a week. How do I meet myself when I don’t achieve the goal? That’s part of habit building. That’s this whole number one health habit I’m talking about, how we talk to ourselves.

I used to track habits in the past and the concept some of you probably know about that smart goals, right? The corporate world was all over that 10 years ago when I was there. I don’t know if it’s still the case today, and we used to track it and we used to shame ourselves. for not achieving our goal or we oppositely used to like put people who achieve their habit on a pedestal those who executed a hundred percent we need to celebrate them and we need to like cheer them on and they were the best people in the world and by shamed.

And as a result, I built the habit that if I wasn’t perfect in my habit, I would shame myself. So looking at my habit tracker is training myself to meet myself with compassion, kindness, and understanding. So I’m looking at last week’s habit. There’s two days that I didn’t stretch. One day, it’s because I decided to go out with friends, to go out for dinner and to go out for social time, and when I came back home, I just wanted to go to bed, and I prioritized my sleep.

I made the decision to not stretch that day. The second day I didn’t stretch, again, I made the decision to not stretch because I wasn’t feeling well. Good. And the last thing I want is execute on a habit from a place of I have to when really I don’t want to. That’s the old way of habit from my culture and there’s no way I’m repeating that pattern of I have to because I know where it leads to.

It leads to doing it until you don’t do it and then spending months. and years not doing anything. That was my pattern for exercising the whole time I was part of diet culture. I would exercise, and I would hate it, and push myself to do it and push myself to do it and push myself until I’m like, fuck it, I don’t want to do it anymore I hate this.

And then I would spend a year or two without moving my body. Does that sound familiar? The antidote to that is being able to look at the results with understanding and compassion, knowing that you made choices and saying, okay, we start again next week.

How easily does that come to you? What I have found over the years of working with my very specific niche is that conversation that how we talk to ourselves, how we treat ourselves, isn’t easily compassion, kindness, and understanding. That’s why I say it’s the number one habit because when we can have This narrative, these thoughts in our brain of kindness and compassion towards ourself and understanding and belief and trust, then we can create excitement for the habits and not I have to.

We can create motivation. Many people want more motivation towards their health habits. Motivation is a feeling. It’s a feeling that we create by the kind of thoughts we think about ourselves. So if we want to create motivation, we need to have kind thoughts, belief thoughts that we believe about ourselves.

We’re going to get there. I’m going to do it. I believe in myself. So to me, the way I teach health habits, I talk about the four bodies of health, mental health, emotional health, physical health, and spiritual health. For me, that mindset, that inner narrative, It’s part of the mental health bucket of habit.

And for me, that’s the number one thing we need to onboard. There’s no point of moving your body. There’s no point of thinking about your nutrition if the inner conversation is really shitty. That’s what we need to tackle first. That’s what we need to hunt board. That is why inside of Undyett your life The very first module is the module where I teach you on how to manage your thought More specifically your thoughts about yourself.

So I wanted to put that in a podcast. So as people scroll through The feed and they see the number one health habit. I want to get it out to the world the number one health habit you can on board is cultivating an inner narrative about yourself one of kindness one of love one of support and one of compassion Do that first Cultivate that Make that something consistent and solid and watch yourself Pick Any health habit afterwards and kicking butt onboarding those health habit with ease, joy, and trust.

I hope this helped you, my sister. If you need some help with both the mindset and health habit, join us inside of On Diet Your Life. podcast.

.

The #1 Health Habit For Women

This is episode 378 of the Beyond the Food Show and today we’re going to talk about the number one health habit for women that no one is considering. and why it has the most impact on our well being. Let’s do this.

Hey, my sisters, welcome back to the podcast. This is likely going to be one of the shortest episodes I ever recorded, because I want to get straight to the point. And I want to uncomplicate this process of thinking about which health habit is most important for us as women to consider and to work on getting in our habit portfolio.

So I’m going to go straight to the point here. And as a clinical nutritionist who has worked with women who have been dieting for years, what I consider the number one health habit that has the most impact on our well being and that unfortunately no one talks about. You ready? The way we talk to ourselves.

in our mind, the way that we meet ourselves, the way that we cultivate our internal dialogues, our mindset, the way we think about ourselves. That’s what I consider to be the number one habit that women have to onboard. Let me explain to you why. So, I’m a 47 year old woman who is in the age of perimenopause and I’m going through perimenopause and when I look at social media, when I read articles and blogs about health for women in my period of age, what I keep hearing all the time is, you need to eat more protein, you need to do muscle building exercise, which is fine and dandy, which is absolutely true.

Right? We talked about that with the menopause nutritionist a few episodes ago. I think it was last episode. Yeah, it is true that we need to consume more protein. And it is true that there’s extreme value in having a muscle building workout routine. But guess what? Executing on these habits, these other habits, require one thing.

It requires you cultivating a supportive, motivating, kind, internal dialogue. I’ve been teaching habitsin my prior career, in the context of working in a corporate structure and working in sales and implementing sales plan, which In order for us to execute the sales plan, we needed daily habits in our businesses that I was supervising in order to generate the revenue.

And it’s the same thing when it comes to your health. We know from science that there’s a number of habits like eating enough food, like moving your body that we need to implement in our life in order for us to live. a full life to have access to the full potential of our health that is accessible to us.

But in order to create that behavior on a long term spectrum, meaning you’re gonna show up moving your body two to three times a week for the rest of your life. Not five or six times a week for six months because you are on a plan, but instead moving your body however, that brings joy to you for the rest of your life consistently.

These are long term behavior that needs to become part of who we are. I have been teaching people how to do that in the context of business and for the last Eight years now in the context of health, specifically for women who have been under the influence of diaculture and have been dieting and restricting for a long time.

So I have a very niche specialty and I can tell you, I have written books about how to like onboard new habits. I’ve given classes, forums, seminars. I can give the most detailed protocol. for women to onboard health habit, but if they don’t have that one habit on generating an inner conversation with themselves that is kind and compassionate, no habit will be onboarded long term.

And we know that, not just from my experience, we know that from science, we know that from research, the field of cognitive behavioral. therapy or coaching in the case of what we do in my world. We use cognitive behavioral modeling, which is a field of research linked to the science of understanding the behaviors of human being.

When you look at the field of research on cognitive behavioral Modeling or coaching, what you find is that human behavior, like walking, moving your body, eating enough food, mental health, emotional health, what creates consistency is not a rigid plan, a list of things to do, it’s creating a motivational feeling, a excitement, joyful In looking to create and having the behavior, it’s being excited about doing the thing.

It’s looking forward to moving your body, not, Oh, I have to do this. Oh my God, I don’t want to go there, but I just have to. Go there, which is how I used to be when it came to health behavior because it was associated with shrinking my body and suffering and all the things that diaculture taught us. So having to learn to be excited about moving my body, Oh my God, that took some work.

And the work had to do with me generating. inner feeling of excitement, of motivation, of support, kindness, and compassion towards myself. I needed to change the way I thought about myself, the way I thought about my health the way that I thought about my health behavior. I had to change the narrative from I have to I choose to.

And that was a lot of reprogramming because in my case, 25 years of I have to, I had to, I should, needed a lot. Like literally hundreds and hundreds of repetition of me saying no, no, no, no, I choose to go for a walk because I enjoy walking while listening to a podcast. I had to literally retrain my brain to think about habits to think about myself.

I want to take care of my body. I am worthy to take care of my body. Even if I don’t lose weight, I am worthy to invest time and resources in generating more strength in my body, even though I’m going to remain fat. Like I had to change the way that I taught about myself in the context of my health and in the context of me not doing it the way that I thought it should be.

So as I’m recording this episode right now, and for those of you who perhaps are watching me on video, I’m looking in a different direction right now. I’m looking at my habit. Tracker, because I track habits at the beginning of my journey of learning habit. This is something that I’m teaching to people when I teach about health habit.

By the way, if you are joining on Diet Your Life, if you’re joining us live the 13th, you will be able to attend live. We’re talking 2023, by the way. I don’t know when you’re listening to this, but if you’re joining on diet your life before October 13, 2023, you’ll be able to join us in October and November as I teach health habits school.

And that’s one of the thing I’m going to teach in there is pick one habits, one, not 10 or 15. One habit and then set a goal with something called minimum baseline. That’s a tool that I teach. And then track it. And the reason why you want to track, so I’m tracking right now two habits that I’ve unboarded over the last six months.

One being as a result of a knee injury that I had, we diagnosed, the physical therapy team diagnosed a bunch of imbalances in my legs and they gave me a series of mobility exercise to do and strengthening and stretching exercise and, Quite honestly, this is going to be for years to come that I’m going to have to do them.

So about four months ago, I started to build a habit to do these mobility exercise, once a day. So four months ago, I emboarded this new habit of doing these exercise. And about a month ago, I wanted to on board the enjoyment of walking. Not walking to exercise or to move my body as a way of regulating my nervous system, calming down, processing my thoughts.

It’s more of a mental health and emotional health than it is for physical health. Long story short, I started to track that. So I’m looking at my wall right now with my habits, and I have a goal for each habit, right? I want to walk three times a week at the end of the day, and I want to stretch once a day, six days a week.

And I don’t do it. I don’t stretch six days a week. I just started walking for nervous system regulation and I don’t walk three times a week. How do I meet myself when I don’t achieve the goal? That’s part of habit building. That’s this whole number one health habit I’m talking about, how we talk to ourselves.

I used to track habits in the past and the concept some of you probably know about that smart goals, right? The corporate world was all over that 10 years ago when I was there. I don’t know if it’s still the case today, and we used to track it and we used to shame ourselves. for not achieving our goal or we oppositely used to like put people who achieve their habit on a pedestal those who executed a hundred percent we need to celebrate them and we need to like cheer them on and they were the best people in the world and by shamed.

And as a result, I built the habit that if I wasn’t perfect in my habit, I would shame myself. So looking at my habit tracker is training myself to meet myself with compassion, kindness, and understanding. So I’m looking at last week’s habit. There’s two days that I didn’t stretch. One day, it’s because I decided to go out with friends, to go out for dinner and to go out for social time, and when I came back home, I just wanted to go to bed, and I prioritized my sleep.

I made the decision to not stretch that day. The second day I didn’t stretch, again, I made the decision to not stretch because I wasn’t feeling well. Good. And the last thing I want is execute on a habit from a place of I have to when really I don’t want to. That’s the old way of habit from my culture and there’s no way I’m repeating that pattern of I have to because I know where it leads to.

It leads to doing it until you don’t do it and then spending months. and years not doing anything. That was my pattern for exercising the whole time I was part of diet culture. I would exercise, and I would hate it, and push myself to do it and push myself to do it and push myself until I’m like, fuck it, I don’t want to do it anymore I hate this.

And then I would spend a year or two without moving my body. Does that sound familiar? The antidote to that is being able to look at the results with understanding and compassion, knowing that you made choices and saying, okay, we start again next week.

How easily does that come to you? What I have found over the years of working with my very specific niche is that conversation that how we talk to ourselves, how we treat ourselves, isn’t easily compassion, kindness, and understanding. That’s why I say it’s the number one habit because when we can have This narrative, these thoughts in our brain of kindness and compassion towards ourself and understanding and belief and trust, then we can create excitement for the habits and not I have to.

We can create motivation. Many people want more motivation towards their health habits. Motivation is a feeling. It’s a feeling that we create by the kind of thoughts we think about ourselves. So if we want to create motivation, we need to have kind thoughts, belief thoughts that we believe about ourselves.

We’re going to get there. I’m going to do it. I believe in myself. So to me, the way I teach health habits, I talk about the four bodies of health, mental health, emotional health, physical health, and spiritual health. For me, that mindset, that inner narrative, It’s part of the mental health bucket of habit.

And for me, that’s the number one thing we need to onboard. There’s no point of moving your body. There’s no point of thinking about your nutrition if the inner conversation is really shitty. That’s what we need to tackle first. That’s what we need to hunt board. That is why inside of Undyett your life The very first module is the module where I teach you on how to manage your thought More specifically your thoughts about yourself.

So I wanted to put that in a podcast. So as people scroll through The feed and they see the number one health habit. I want to get it out to the world the number one health habit you can on board is cultivating an inner narrative about yourself one of kindness one of love one of support and one of compassion Do that first Cultivate that Make that something consistent and solid and watch yourself Pick Any health habit afterwards and kicking butt onboarding those health habit with ease, joy, and trust.

I hope this helped you, my sister. If you need some help with both the mindset and health habit, join us inside of On Diet Your Life. podcast.

 

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377-Menopause, Perimenopause and Nutrition with Dr. Jenn Huber

377-Menopause, Perimenopause and Nutrition with Dr. Jenn Huber

Non-Diet Approach to menopause & perimenopause

Non-Diet Approach to menopause & perimenopause with Dr. Jenn Huber. 

Non-Diet Approach to menopause & perimenopause 

Do we really need to eat high protein to avoid symptoms of perimenopause? 

Is it normal to gain weight after menopause?

Today we discuss all things menopause & perimenopause with Dr. Jenn.

Dr. Jenn Salib Huber is a Canadian Registered Dietitian, Naturopathic Doctor, and Certified Intuitive Eating Counsellor and she’s on a mission to help women thrive in midlife. 

She helps women navigate the changes that happen in midlife, including their search for food freedom and body confidence. 

She’s the host of ‘The Midlife Feast’ podcast and community that helps women “undiet” their lives so they can nourish a relationship with food that helps them discover the magic of midlife!

What you’ll learn listening to this episode on Non-Diet Approach to menopause & perimenopause:

  • Is there such a thing as an hormone balancing diet
  • The best question to ask yourself for your nutrition in that phase of your life
  • What about weight gain- is it normal?

Mentioned in the show: 

Health Habits School as bonus in Undiet Your Life Program

Health Habits Checklist

Non-Diet Coaching Certification

Connect with our guest:

Jenn Huber’s Free Masterclass – Menopause Made Easy

Instagram – Jenn Huber

Facebook – Jenn Huber

Transcript

Episode 377-Non-Diet Approach to menopause & perimenopause with Dr. Jenn Huber

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This is episode 377 of the Beyond the Food Show and today we talk all things. Bowie menopause menopause nutrition with dr. Jen Huber, stay tuned.

Hey my sister, welcome back. I am so proud of this episode and. So excited to put this on our podcast feed. I have been wanting to do an episode about perimenopause and menopause that doesn’t involve diet culture and I found perfect person to do this with me. It’s Dr. Jen Huber. She is a registered dietitian and a naturopathic doctor and a certified intuitive eating counselor.

So I knew we’re not going to get a side of diet culture and wellness culture and yet get super powerful, intelligent, science based advice for all of us that are either in the midst of perimenopause, menopause, Or that is coming up for you. You don’t want to miss this episode. I think it’s going to be one of those archived episode that is going to serve you very well.

We’re dismantling all the myths about like high protein and muscle building and hormones and even I share about, I’m coming out actually. on this podcast. I’m not going to tell you what, you’re going to have to listen, but I’m making a coming out on the podcast. Now, before I roll in with the interview with Dr. Jen, I want to invite all of you to join us inside of Undie at Your Life for Health Habit School that is It’s going to be happening in less than 10 days. We’re going to be starting on October the 15th, to talk about health behavior in a completely disruptive counterculture way that does not involve willpower, self discipline, and self discipline.

Losing weight as the motivator for actually engaging and help promoting behavior. So I’m going to break down four steps that I have been using with my client and I have used myself in my life to create health promoting behavior that

And one of the shifts around thinking about how promoting behavior differently, we kind of talked about it in the last episodes. If you haven’t listened, episode 376, and you’re considering getting support with your health promoting behavior, go and listen to 376 where I talk about the three shifts that we need to make in our belief.

And that’s where we start when. We teach health habits inside of On Diet Your Life. We don’t talk about being more productive and how to maximize our willpower. But instead we’re talking about beliefs and belief system and how we’ve been socialized to health and behavioral changes and how that impacts.

The on and off cycle with our health habit that we’ve been on most of us our entire life. So what do we need to unlearn? What we need to learn? That’s where we start. And then we’re gonna then take on the journey of setting what I call a liberated goal around your health. And then how to walk through weeks and months of learning this new behavior.

For the rest of your life and what happened when you want to stop and you want to quit? what does that mean? And how do we handle that without self criticism judgment and quote unquote beating the shit out of ourselves? So it’s a revolutionary way of thinking about health habit And I want to invite you if you’re ready for that if you need that we will be there To support you in creating new health habits That’s for the rest of your life and that’s starting October 15th.

If you’re listening to this after October 15th, no worries. We are recording all the sessions and they will be available permanently inside of Undyette Your Life coaching program. So you can join us at any time and inside of your student portal, you’ll be able to catch up. and then get support on our bi weekly coaching call.

Okay, I hope many of you will come to join us. And now let’s talk about menopause, perimenopause and nutrition with Dr. Jen Huber. Let’s roll in the interview.​

Stephanie: Welcome to the show, Jen.

Dr. Jenn: Thank you so much. I’m so excited to be here.

Stephanie: I’m excited to have this conversation with you. I’ve been like a child playing around this morning, trying to write down all my questions because I’ve got so many for you. We’re going to talk all things menopause, perimenopause. And I’ve been answering that question and I want to get us started on the diet from perimenopause and menopause. Your opinion as a specialist of that and this whole conversation around needing more protein.

Dr. Jenn: Yeah. Well, you know. the good thing and the bad thing about all things menopause being in the media and having its moment spotlight, the good thing is that we’re having the conversations. The good thing is that more people who are going through perimenopause, who would have otherwise not been supported now have access.

Dr. Jenn: But A big problem with that access is too much and, you know, just because the information is out there doesn’t mean it’s good information. And so we, there’s a lot of people who are giving opinions about things that I don’t necessarily think they’re qualified to do. and Oftentimes it’s revolving around this diet and wellness culture conversation of what is the best diet.

Dr. Jenn: There’s all kinds of people talking about hormone balancing diets and what you need to cut out and you know, women can’t have carbs and all these kinds of things. And at the end of the day, what I like to tell people is that for the most part, our nutritional needs don’t change all that. Much

Dr. Jenn: at the end of the day, we are human beings going through different seasons of life. The foundations and the basics don’t change. We still need to have balance plates most of the time imperfectly in ways that fit our life that are about nourishment and pleasure and joy. But if we’re talking gentle nutrition, if we’re talking about, okay, I’m 45, I’m 55 and I want to stay healthy, well active, whatever it is through the next 30 or 40 years, because we know that, you know, most of us are going to spend at least 30 percent of our life in postmenopause. What can we add in?

Dr. Jenn: And protein does come into that conversation, but it doesn’t come into the conversation in the way that I think most people see represented on social media. Nobody needs to be eating, you know, six chicken breasts a day. Nobody needs to be aiming for protein at the expense of everything else. So when I’m talking about it, I’m saying, what can we add in to what you’re already doing to what you’re already enjoying so that we can build and maintain muscle to the best of our ability so that we can support your bones because protein is actually an important component of that. And. If we’re talking about, you know, people’s relationship with food and people who have, you know, dieted chronically and who maybe who have never felt satisfied in full in a long time, protein can be a nice addition to that conversation too.

Dr. Jenn: So to answer the protein question, Yeah, it does matter. It does matter a little bit more in perimenopause and menopause. It’s not the be all and end all.

Stephanie: It mattered all along. That’s what I’m hearing. Yes. It mattered all along. It may matter a little bit more, like we’re talking here like 5%, but not like 50%.

Stephanie: It mattered that much more and it’s going to save your life out of all your symptoms of menopause or perimenopause.

Dr. Jenn: Exactly. It doesn’t fix anything in and of itself.

Stephanie: You said, you mentioned the term hormone balancing diet. Is there such a thing? is food, diets, nutrition able to balance our hormone?

Dr. Jenn: Not in the way that it’s portrayed. So, hormones for people who have ovaries, who have working ovaries, We have upstairs hormones that come from our brain and we have downstairs hormones that come from our ovaries. Food can’t influence those in a significant way. Cutting out sugar is not going to balance your hormones. Adding in protein isn’t going to balance your hormones.

Dr. Jenn: But there are foods, including phytoestrogen rich foods that may help to manage the symptoms of the rollercoaster of hormone changes that are happening. But I try to never use the word balance and hormone in the same conversation. Because it gets really confusing because what’s balance, you know, in perimenopause, we’re on a roller coaster that literally changes from day to day, month to month.

Dr. Jenn: So balance for me and balance for you can be two very different things. We, even within the same individual one month, we can have really high levels of estrogen and the next month they can bottom out. There’s nothing that we can do to balance that with food. So no. Short answer.

Stephanie: Okay. We got the two most hot question out of the way.

Stephanie: Now I’m going to have a conversation about menopause and perimenopause. What does it mean for you? Like going through perimenopause and menopause. How do you define that for you? How do you live with that?

Dr. Jenn: Well, I think that for, I don’t know how old you are, I’m 46.

Stephanie: I’m 47 going through perimenopause, so I have, I can’t, we can talk about that for a long time. Right. And so I have to refrain myself from sharing my personal story. Tell us what you think it is.

Dr. Jenn: Well, and it’s a great example. So I’m 46 and post menopause. So we can have a huge range of experiences within, you know, decades. So it’s not unusual for people in their 40s to be in perimenopause. It’s by far the most common.

Dr. Jenn: It’s a little bit less common, but not rare to go into menopause before the age of 45. It’s considered early. If you go into menopause before 40, that’s premature. That’s a little too early. And then there are some people who are almost 60 before they finally get rid of their period. So, for each of us, our own experience is going to be very different, but I think that for our generation, if I can make a sweeping generalization, we were raised with the message that menopause was the end.

Dr. Jenn: That menopause was the end of your period, it was the end of your reproductive years, your best years were behind you, and everything went to shit after that. But I think we’re redefining that. I know we’re redefining that, because we now know. You know, I’m going to spend, I hope 40 plus percent of my life is put as a post menopausal active person, right. Who’s, you know, trying my best to live my best life within the means of expectancy, like normal expectations. I’m not fighting aging, but I’m trying to age well. you know, and so I think that for many of us, this is an opportunity to see it as a new beginning. And there are so many. You know, great examples and analogies of like, this is just a second season.

Dr. Jenn: Yeah, you’ve got a bit of a storm to go through before you get to the other side, but you know, your menopause is just the end of your period. It’s not the end of you.

Stephanie: I totally agree with you. It has a lot to do with. Ageism, right? We see ourselves as coming to be useless. Like I, I don’t because of all the thought work and the mindset that I’ve done.

Stephanie: But for many of my friends, they are fearing that face of their life because what society has told them that it means. But what I’m hearing you say is we can redefine that, redefine what menopause and perimenopause means to us.

Dr. Jenn: And it’s not just humans. The grandmother hypothesis is such a great example from the animal kingdom of other animals, orca whales, giraffes, where the female members of, you know, their groups live long beyond their reproductive years and it serves a purpose. It’s because we’re wise.

Stephanie: Yes, I love that we have the same mindset.

Dr. Jenn: Yeah, it’s we are wise. We have the experience. we know through lived experience, what matters and what doesn’t, and it’s our job to pass that on. So, you know, really kind of coming into owning that. Yeah, my period is over, but I am okay with that for one.

Dr. Jenn: I have a whole bunch of lived experience now and there’s so much more to do with that than just wait for life to be over.

Stephanie: For me I see what I’m going through right now is really embracing the I don’t give a f I don’t give a fuck of what’s going on like I’m doing me. And I’m living my life the way I want to, and it’s almost like shedding my period is shedding that social conditioning that I have to live my life the way people told me I had to, and now I’m shedding that part of me, and I’m really.

Dr. Jenn: The greatest gift of midlife is the inability to do the things that you don’t want to do anymore. Oh,

Stephanie: I love that. Tell me more.

Dr. Jenn: Yeah. I mean, it’s Brene Brown’s, a variation of Brene Brown’s quote that middle grabs you by the shoulders and says like, you know, I’m not messing around, like get to it. but really this inability to do things that we don’t want to do anymore become so uncomfortable that it often comes out as rage.

Dr. Jenn: When we’re forced to do the things we don’t want to do, resentment and, you know, there’s so much turmoil happening inside and on the outside as a result of that, that there are many reasons why midlife is uncomfortable for people. I, you know, I’m the last person to ever deny someone’s experience that it sucks sometimes, but if you can work your way through it, including the messy parts, there’s so much clarity that can come out of it.

Stephanie: Like, I’ll just give you a short story on me. I have, it’s presenting itself a lot in sleep, like I want to go to bed at eight 30, but I’m awake at three 30. And for the first six months I used to fight it and I fought it because I needed like the eight hours sleep from like 10 to 6 a. m. like the normal standard linear way of sleeping and I was exhausted mentally, emotionally and physically.

Stephanie: Yeah. Right from fighting it and thinking something is wrong and it should be like the proper way of sleeping and I stopped fighting it true working through like, this is it. This is it’s present for me in my life. I’m not fighting it anymore. Then my day starts at 4 am. What can I tell you? Like, and it goes to bed at 7.

Stephanie: 30, but it starts at 4 a. m. I don’t fight it. I’ve learned not to fight my body at all for any reason.

Dr. Jenn: Yeah. Yeah. And I think that sleep is a great example of something that most people going through perimenopause notice huge changes with. and it’s often that waking at 3 a. m.

Stephanie: Yeah.

Dr. Jenn: Oh, yeah. No, that’s like, I mean, it’s almost a meme.

Dr. Jenn: I think it is a meme, you know, kind of waking up at 3 a. m. and just being like wide awake. and it’s fabulous. If you, if your life allows you to go to bed at 7 or 8 o’clock, it’s definitely a struggle. I think when people can’t do that for whatever reason. And, you know, it becomes such a slog to, you know, to Try and sleep and to try to get back to sleep and to worry about sleep.

Dr. Jenn: But that those early sleep changes are definitely one of the first symptoms of perimenopause that I think most people go through.

Stephanie: Am I correct to say that menopause and perimenopause. Almost became like, a continuation of our thin ideal, like we’re both in the non diet space where the body of a woman should be all looking the same way, and we should all fit the same way.

Stephanie: And we’re going through menopause, and the more I’m hearing and I’m paying attention to the narrative, like, We shouldn’t be having symptoms. Like there’s a way to avoid the symptoms and if you do this, you’re going to sleep. And if you do this, you won’t. Is that really possible to not have symptoms? And if we’re perfect enough, we’re just going to ride that sucker up?

Dr. Jenn: Well, it’s an interesting question that I don’t know exactly the answer to. I know that there are, you know, there’s research from other countries where menopause is not described in the way that we describe it. Is that because it doesn’t exist, or is it because those are patriarchal cultures that have never cared about women’s health?

Dr. Jenn: I was going to say, who’s writing the research? Exactly. but, you know, if we look at North American experiences, European experiences. We’re going to notice a huge range and again, that probably comes down to genetics. We know that genetics are a big driver of when we go into menopause and your mother’s experience of menopause can hint at what yours will be like.

Dr. Jenn: It’s not perfect, obviously, but then, you know, we have all of these other factors that can influence. Not only our symptoms, but also just our experience, how much support we have, access to health care, stress, companionship, you know, all of those things can influence our experience of it. So I think it’s a really hard question to answer as yes or no.

Dr. Jenn: I think that we’re just scratching the surface, though, of the things that we can do to make the experience more positive and comfortable.

Stephanie: I love that more positive and comfortable. But not thinking there’s something wrong with the experience.

Dr. Jenn: It’s not, you know, it’s not a pathology. Yes. So just like pregnancy can come with all kinds of ups and downs and complications and not so fun parts, but it’s not a pathology.

Stephanie: Just like large body are not a pathology. Menopause is not a pathology. It comes in body diversity and menopause diversity, I guess.

Dr. Jenn: Yeah, absolutely.

Stephanie: and we’re sold by the industry, the illusion that there is a product, there is a process, if we sacrifice enough and if we’re hard enough. then we can avoid all the symptoms,

Dr. Jenn: and I don’t think that exists, obviously.

Stephanie: And as I’m saying that, like, it’s because I was just teaching a class on healthism, and I’m not niche in menopause or perimenopause, but it’s almost like we feel a shame of having symptoms and not being able to solve them. Could you say that, your observation of life in population?

Dr. Jenn: Yeah, I think that, you know, when, especially when it comes to things like hot flashes, you know, in the workplace, for example,a lot of women will apologize for them.

Dr. Jenn: We’ll try and hide the fact that they’re having them. and I think that it’s just like everything else. We just need to name it and call it, you know, and. The more that we talk about it, the more that we normalize that, like, this is something that literally every woman on the planet or every person with a uterus and ovaries on the planet is going to go through, and 75 percent of them will experience hot flashes.

Dr. Jenn: Like, why don’t we normalize that? Right. So taking away the shame for that is, I think, a big part of how we improve the experience. you know, being able to name it and also being able to name it accesses solutions more easily and readily because people aren’t afraid or ashamed to ask for help.

Stephanie: Yeah, so I’m going to come out and say, like, I’ve started to take the birth control pill for my perimenopause. Yeah. And there’s a, like, when I listen to wellness culture, because I still have a lot of colleagues entrenched in wellness culture, and it’s just a shame of doing that, like, they shame people for going to take birth control pill to manage their symptoms.

Stephanie: Yeah. It’s sad. I mean,

Dr. Jenn: it’s crazy because, yeah, wellness culture tells us that we are a better person for suffering through it. Right.

Stephanie: Talk to me about that. Yes.

Dr. Jenn: And so if we can manage menopause without any hormones, without any help, then somehow we are, we emerge more virtuous on the other side and that’s ridiculous.

Dr. Jenn: Right. And I mean, and that is, that’s so rooted in patriarchy and ageism and wellness culture and all of that, you know, and a lot of the symptoms that we need help managing directly impact our quality of life, mood, heavy periods, what I call crime scene periods that like make it so that you’re afraid to leave the house, let alone stand up.

Dr. Jenn: Or sit anywhere exactly, you know, and that leads to iron deficiency and like all, you know, it’s this trickle down effect. I mean, when I was in the thick of my perimenopause, I was having to set 2 alarms at night, not to bleed through and I was going to bed with like towels down and I would wake up with like, and I’d be like, Oh, and I’d like run to the bathroom. Like, you know, why is, okay. Why is anyone expected to suffer through any of that? you know, the mood changes and the risk of depression and anxiety is increased. And so we need to just normalize that, Hey, this can go on for 10 years, folks like. You don’t need to suffer through a decade of your life just because somebody tells you that you should, because there is no value in that.

Stephanie: As you were talking, there was a word that kept ringing in my brain, Like the obsession of the perfect menopause and perimenopause? Like, it’s almost the same thing as alphism.

Dr. Jenn: Yeah. I think that there is this, you know, wellness culture likes to develop these rituals, right?

Dr. Jenn: and these rhythms that if you do these things in this order, you will unlock this next level. which of course we know is bullshit, but so I think that what we really need to do is create community where we’re talking about the range of experiences so that no one ever thinks they’re alone in their suffering in perimenopause,

Stephanie: so that, normal. Exactly. Normalizing it, right?

Dr. Jenn: The number of people who have reached out to me and have said that the only place they have ever heard anyone talk about the things that I talk about is on my podcast, because they don’t have any friends who are going through it. They don’t have any family, their mother either.

Dr. Jenn: didn’t talk about it, isn’t around anymore, or had a hysterectomy, like, we’re just not talking about what is normal. And normal doesn’t mean like, oh, it’s normal and I just have to suffer through it. Normal means like, what can you expect, right? Like, what can you expect in the next five or ten years so that you know what to look for?

Stephanie: And whatever comes doesn’t mean anything about you. Exactly. Might it doesn’t mean you didn’t work hard enough and try hard enough. It’s just part of this package of being a person with ovaries. Exactly. Including we’re going to go down the topic of weight gain.

Dr. Jenn: Yes, which 80 plus percent of people going through perimenopause and menopause experience. Sometimes it’s. Or I should say often it’s the number on the scale, if they’re using a scale that has changed or their clothing size, but probably even more common than that is this redistribution of assets as I call it. Where, because we are moving from this higher estrogen state to a lower estrogen state, and the hormones are all shifting.

Dr. Jenn: We go from the pear shape to the apple shape. So, even if. Your body isn’t changing in mass what you see in the mirror and how your clothes fit is changing. And that is uncomfortable because our default programming tells us that there’s something wrong with that and that there’s something wrong with us because of it.

Dr. Jenn: So, you know, when I ask people, what is your most bothersome symptom? it’s the body changes that always come out on top. They’re like, I’d love to be done with the hot flashes too, but it’s really, it’s this body stuff that I just am having such a hard time with, but it does get even more nuanced or complicated because there’s, we now know that we’re seeing in the research, there’s a second peak of eating disorders that is happening in perimenopause.

Dr. Jenn: So the same changes that are happening in our brain. In puberty that lead to or contribute to body dissatisfaction and body dysmorphia, we’re seeing again as women go through perimenopause. So we have this physiological process that is changing what our body looks like on the inside and the outside.

Dr. Jenn: And our brain is going through reverse puberty. And so it is a damn uncomfortable time for anybody in the middle of an already busy time of life. So it is, it does feel like a big flaming bag of garbage most of the time. Like that is a normal experience that we need to talk about.

Stephanie: And I believe so from my world being a lot about body image. Here’s my perspective on this is that women come to perimenopause or menopause the weight gain happened and it’s the trigger to body image issue that perhaps before the escape to controlling food or perhaps the had 10 privilege. It wasn’t a thing. And all of a sudden the thing that was stable now flares up quote unquote. And now their body image stuff comes up.

Dr. Jenn: It’s exactly what happens.

Stephanie: Because for me, as a person who’s done because of my weight, body image long time ago, gaining weight is not a big bag of problem, it’s just, oh, my body changed, but I’m already, I came into it neutral. And that’s not the position of most women.

Dr. Jenn: no. And because we also get the messaging from diet and wellness culture that we need to fight that tooth and nail, because of all of the. you know, implied and stated complications of gaining weight. it becomes a really fear based conversation. And, you know, I’m sure you see it as well, that people will come in and just say, I’m terrified and I need to do something.

Dr. Jenn: And yet they also know in their heart of hearts. Because of this gift of midlife that they cannot start another diet. So they feel stuck in this rock in this hard place and they just don’t know where to turn.

Stephanie: And that’s why people like me and you, our message needs to get broadcasted louder. So people have an option to say, like, it’s not true. You’re stuck. We’re here. We can help you go through that differently without putting you on another diet and losing weight being the solution.

Dr. Jenn: Exactly.

Stephanie: So. What I hear from you is that weight gain is normal and it’s not a sign that something has gone wrong with your menopause and you need to control it. It’s instead just part and parcel of perimenopause and menopause. And perhaps Another call to do the work of body neutrality or acceptance, whatever school you’re in and truly make peace with your body.

Dr. Jenn: Yeah, because at the end of the day, we can’t reverse it, right? You know, this is a change that’s programmed into our DNA.

Dr. Jenn: and so if we think about. The purpose of it, you know, one of the leading theories is that extra fat around our midsection produces estrogen, helps to protect our bones and our heart and our brain as we go through menopause. and so if we start to see purpose to it, I think that it helps us to have a bit more compassion for why it’s happening.

Dr. Jenn: And if we can have that body neutral, you know, foundation. Then we can just kind of see it as something that is happening around us and not something that’s happening to us. Yeah. I love that. You’re going gray. Right. Like, yeah, my hair’s going gray. and I like to diet right now, but at some point I, I won’t feel like that’s worth it.

Dr. Jenn: you know, I’m getting wrinkles. or I should say I have wrinkles. I don’t particularly feel a strong inclination to, to change that. Right. Because I know that that’s happening. That’s part of the process. That’s part of the privilege of getting older.

Stephanie: And I don’t, for me, the way I teach body neutrality is your body is a tool to experience life is just one of the thing that your tool has as a way of aging, which is gray hair, which is weight gain on the belly. It doesn’t mean anything about you as a. Spare it to a person behind the body. Now, do you, and this is where often people, my message gets like overtaken.

Stephanie: Like, if it’s a tool that I need to maximize its efficiency. No, no, no, no, no. Like we don’t need to like, this is why I started with a high protein conversation. We can also talk about muscle building. People have this representation that we degrade, we shrink and we lose all our muscle because now we’re in perimenopause or menopause.

Stephanie: Is that the case?

Dr. Jenn: no, not in that way. but all humans, not just women, but all humans, you know, really kind of start to become challenged at building and maintaining muscle as we get older. It’s much easier at 18 than it is at 68 to build muscle, but there are huge returns on investment if we can.

Dr. Jenn: build or maintain a bit of muscle as we get older. and it has nothing to do with appearance and everything to do with how you live in your body. and you know, from maintaining your balance and being able to carry your groceries up the stairs, to being able to live your best life when you retire.

Dr. Jenn: So shifting the focus from, I need to work out to shape what my body looks like. To I want to move my body and make it as strong as I can within reason and my means so that I can feel healthy and well, as I go through the season of life, I think is a huge part of that body neutral conversation too.

Stephanie: And I have the same opinion as you. It’s like all human lose muscle. Now, what kind of life do I want to lead when I’m 70, when I’m 80, if I. have the choice to let it be what it is, but I also have in today’s world the privilege to be able to do some muscle building exercise that will allow me to be a kick ass 70 years old that travels the world, that can walk around for miles on end and just enjoys her life.

Stephanie: I get to choose how I want to live. That part of my life. Exactly. Any parting words for our audience or any topic I haven’t talked about that you absolutely want to put on the forefront of women as they’re going through peri and menopause.

Dr. Jenn: I think we’ve covered a lot, actually. I mean, the biggest thing that I always tell people is that, you know, just because it’s normal doesn’t mean that you have to wing it.

Dr. Jenn: And so, so many people are focused on having the natural menopause experience or just, you know, biding their time to wait until it’s over, believing that like they just have to get to that last period. But regardless of whether you’re having a lot of symptoms or not, If you’re noticing these perimenopausal changes, it’s a great time to actually start thinking about the next season of your life and how can I plan, prepare, get excited about it.

Dr. Jenn: life without a period is pretty awesome. Not going to lie. Right. And so, just being able upsides. To midlife, there are upsides to being in menopause and you don’t have to fear it because it is not the end.

Stephanie: And it’s true the 2nd season of life is often triggered by perimenopause and menopause and that’s the opportunity for us to ask ourselves, what do we really want?

Stephanie: How do I want to live the rest of my life? Yeah, exactly. Where can people find you, Jen? I know you got some pretty cool stuff. You haven’t talked about it so far, but it’s time now to tell people where they can find you.

Dr. Jenn: Well, I mean, I hang out on Instagram too much, so it’s probably where people can find me easiest. It’s at menopause. nutritionist, but my podcast, the midlife feast and the community, my membership community by the same name are really where people can connect and learn with me if they want to dive a little bit deeper into anything that we’re doing here. And I can share those links with you

Stephanie: and the podcast because they’re going to listen to this on the midlife feast.

Stephanie: Perfect. Let’s all go in and listen to that. Thank you very much, Jen, for sharing your time with us today.

Dr. Jenn: Thanks so much for having me.

Non-Diet Approach to Menopause & Perimenopause with Dr. Jenn Huber

This is episode 377 of the Beyond the Food Show and today we talk all things. Bowie menopause menopause nutrition with dr. Jen Huber, stay tuned.

Hey my sister, welcome back. I am so proud of this episode and. So excited to put this on our podcast feed. I have been wanting to do an episode about perimenopause and menopause that doesn’t involve diet culture and I found perfect person to do this with me. It’s Dr. Jen Huber. She is a registered dietitian and a naturopathic doctor and a certified intuitive eating counselor.

So I knew we’re not going to get a side of diet culture and wellness culture and yet get super powerful, intelligent, science based advice for all of us that are either in the midst of perimenopause, menopause, Or that is coming up for you. You don’t want to miss this episode. I think it’s going to be one of those archived episode that is going to serve you very well.

We’re dismantling all the myths about like high protein and muscle building and hormones and even I share about, I’m coming out actually. on this podcast. I’m not going to tell you what, you’re going to have to listen, but I’m making a coming out on the podcast. Now, before I roll in with the interview with Dr. Jen, I want to invite all of you to join us inside of Undie at Your Life for Health Habit School that is It’s going to be happening in less than 10 days. We’re going to be starting on October the 15th, to talk about health behavior in a completely disruptive counterculture way that does not involve willpower, self discipline, and self discipline.

Losing weight as the motivator for actually engaging and help promoting behavior. So I’m going to break down four steps that I have been using with my client and I have used myself in my life to create health promoting behavior that

And one of the shifts around thinking about how promoting behavior differently, we kind of talked about it in the last episodes. If you haven’t listened, episode 376, and you’re considering getting support with your health promoting behavior, go and listen to 376 where I talk about the three shifts that we need to make in our belief.

And that’s where we start when. We teach health habits inside of On Diet Your Life. We don’t talk about being more productive and how to maximize our willpower. But instead we’re talking about beliefs and belief system and how we’ve been socialized to health and behavioral changes and how that impacts.

The on and off cycle with our health habit that we’ve been on most of us our entire life. So what do we need to unlearn? What we need to learn? That’s where we start. And then we’re gonna then take on the journey of setting what I call a liberated goal around your health. And then how to walk through weeks and months of learning this new behavior.

For the rest of your life and what happened when you want to stop and you want to quit? what does that mean? And how do we handle that without self criticism judgment and quote unquote beating the shit out of ourselves? So it’s a revolutionary way of thinking about health habit And I want to invite you if you’re ready for that if you need that we will be there To support you in creating new health habits That’s for the rest of your life and that’s starting October 15th.

If you’re listening to this after October 15th, no worries. We are recording all the sessions and they will be available permanently inside of Undyette Your Life coaching program. So you can join us at any time and inside of your student portal, you’ll be able to catch up. and then get support on our bi weekly coaching call.

Okay, I hope many of you will come to join us. And now let’s talk about menopause, perimenopause and nutrition with Dr. Jen Huber. Let’s roll in the interview.​

Stephanie: Welcome to the show, Jen.

Dr. Jenn: Thank you so much. I’m so excited to be here.

Stephanie: I’m excited to have this conversation with you. I’ve been like a child playing around this morning, trying to write down all my questions because I’ve got so many for you. We’re going to talk all things menopause, perimenopause. And I’ve been answering that question and I want to get us started on the diet from perimenopause and menopause. Your opinion as a specialist of that and this whole conversation around needing more protein.

Dr. Jenn: Yeah. Well, you know. the good thing and the bad thing about all things menopause being in the media and having its moment spotlight, the good thing is that we’re having the conversations. The good thing is that more people who are going through perimenopause, who would have otherwise not been supported now have access.

Dr. Jenn: But A big problem with that access is too much and, you know, just because the information is out there doesn’t mean it’s good information. And so we, there’s a lot of people who are giving opinions about things that I don’t necessarily think they’re qualified to do. and Oftentimes it’s revolving around this diet and wellness culture conversation of what is the best diet.

Dr. Jenn: There’s all kinds of people talking about hormone balancing diets and what you need to cut out and you know, women can’t have carbs and all these kinds of things. And at the end of the day, what I like to tell people is that for the most part, our nutritional needs don’t change all that. Much

Dr. Jenn: at the end of the day, we are human beings going through different seasons of life. The foundations and the basics don’t change. We still need to have balance plates most of the time imperfectly in ways that fit our life that are about nourishment and pleasure and joy. But if we’re talking gentle nutrition, if we’re talking about, okay, I’m 45, I’m 55 and I want to stay healthy, well active, whatever it is through the next 30 or 40 years, because we know that, you know, most of us are going to spend at least 30 percent of our life in postmenopause. What can we add in?

Dr. Jenn: And protein does come into that conversation, but it doesn’t come into the conversation in the way that I think most people see represented on social media. Nobody needs to be eating, you know, six chicken breasts a day. Nobody needs to be aiming for protein at the expense of everything else. So when I’m talking about it, I’m saying, what can we add in to what you’re already doing to what you’re already enjoying so that we can build and maintain muscle to the best of our ability so that we can support your bones because protein is actually an important component of that. And. If we’re talking about, you know, people’s relationship with food and people who have, you know, dieted chronically and who maybe who have never felt satisfied in full in a long time, protein can be a nice addition to that conversation too.

Dr. Jenn: So to answer the protein question, Yeah, it does matter. It does matter a little bit more in perimenopause and menopause. It’s not the be all and end all.

Stephanie: It mattered all along. That’s what I’m hearing. Yes. It mattered all along. It may matter a little bit more, like we’re talking here like 5%, but not like 50%.

Stephanie: It mattered that much more and it’s going to save your life out of all your symptoms of menopause or perimenopause.

Dr. Jenn: Exactly. It doesn’t fix anything in and of itself.

Stephanie: You said, you mentioned the term hormone balancing diet. Is there such a thing? is food, diets, nutrition able to balance our hormone?

Dr. Jenn: Not in the way that it’s portrayed. So, hormones for people who have ovaries, who have working ovaries, We have upstairs hormones that come from our brain and we have downstairs hormones that come from our ovaries. Food can’t influence those in a significant way. Cutting out sugar is not going to balance your hormones. Adding in protein isn’t going to balance your hormones.

Dr. Jenn: But there are foods, including phytoestrogen rich foods that may help to manage the symptoms of the rollercoaster of hormone changes that are happening. But I try to never use the word balance and hormone in the same conversation. Because it gets really confusing because what’s balance, you know, in perimenopause, we’re on a roller coaster that literally changes from day to day, month to month.

Dr. Jenn: So balance for me and balance for you can be two very different things. We, even within the same individual one month, we can have really high levels of estrogen and the next month they can bottom out. There’s nothing that we can do to balance that with food. So no. Short answer.

Stephanie: Okay. We got the two most hot question out of the way.

Stephanie: Now I’m going to have a conversation about menopause and perimenopause. What does it mean for you? Like going through perimenopause and menopause. How do you define that for you? How do you live with that?

Dr. Jenn: Well, I think that for, I don’t know how old you are, I’m 46.

Stephanie: I’m 47 going through perimenopause, so I have, I can’t, we can talk about that for a long time. Right. And so I have to refrain myself from sharing my personal story. Tell us what you think it is.

Dr. Jenn: Well, and it’s a great example. So I’m 46 and post menopause. So we can have a huge range of experiences within, you know, decades. So it’s not unusual for people in their 40s to be in perimenopause. It’s by far the most common.

Dr. Jenn: It’s a little bit less common, but not rare to go into menopause before the age of 45. It’s considered early. If you go into menopause before 40, that’s premature. That’s a little too early. And then there are some people who are almost 60 before they finally get rid of their period. So, for each of us, our own experience is going to be very different, but I think that for our generation, if I can make a sweeping generalization, we were raised with the message that menopause was the end.

Dr. Jenn: That menopause was the end of your period, it was the end of your reproductive years, your best years were behind you, and everything went to shit after that. But I think we’re redefining that. I know we’re redefining that, because we now know. You know, I’m going to spend, I hope 40 plus percent of my life is put as a post menopausal active person, right. Who’s, you know, trying my best to live my best life within the means of expectancy, like normal expectations. I’m not fighting aging, but I’m trying to age well. you know, and so I think that for many of us, this is an opportunity to see it as a new beginning. And there are so many. You know, great examples and analogies of like, this is just a second season.

Dr. Jenn: Yeah, you’ve got a bit of a storm to go through before you get to the other side, but you know, your menopause is just the end of your period. It’s not the end of you.

Stephanie: I totally agree with you. It has a lot to do with. Ageism, right? We see ourselves as coming to be useless. Like I, I don’t because of all the thought work and the mindset that I’ve done.

Stephanie: But for many of my friends, they are fearing that face of their life because what society has told them that it means. But what I’m hearing you say is we can redefine that, redefine what menopause and perimenopause means to us.

Dr. Jenn: And it’s not just humans. The grandmother hypothesis is such a great example from the animal kingdom of other animals, orca whales, giraffes, where the female members of, you know, their groups live long beyond their reproductive years and it serves a purpose. It’s because we’re wise.

Stephanie: Yes, I love that we have the same mindset.

Dr. Jenn: Yeah, it’s we are wise. We have the experience. we know through lived experience, what matters and what doesn’t, and it’s our job to pass that on. So, you know, really kind of coming into owning that. Yeah, my period is over, but I am okay with that for one.

Dr. Jenn: I have a whole bunch of lived experience now and there’s so much more to do with that than just wait for life to be over.

Stephanie: For me I see what I’m going through right now is really embracing the I don’t give a f I don’t give a fuck of what’s going on like I’m doing me. And I’m living my life the way I want to, and it’s almost like shedding my period is shedding that social conditioning that I have to live my life the way people told me I had to, and now I’m shedding that part of me, and I’m really.

Dr. Jenn: The greatest gift of midlife is the inability to do the things that you don’t want to do anymore. Oh,

Stephanie: I love that. Tell me more.

Dr. Jenn: Yeah. I mean, it’s Brene Brown’s, a variation of Brene Brown’s quote that middle grabs you by the shoulders and says like, you know, I’m not messing around, like get to it. but really this inability to do things that we don’t want to do anymore become so uncomfortable that it often comes out as rage.

Dr. Jenn: When we’re forced to do the things we don’t want to do, resentment and, you know, there’s so much turmoil happening inside and on the outside as a result of that, that there are many reasons why midlife is uncomfortable for people. I, you know, I’m the last person to ever deny someone’s experience that it sucks sometimes, but if you can work your way through it, including the messy parts, there’s so much clarity that can come out of it.

Stephanie: Like, I’ll just give you a short story on me. I have, it’s presenting itself a lot in sleep, like I want to go to bed at eight 30, but I’m awake at three 30. And for the first six months I used to fight it and I fought it because I needed like the eight hours sleep from like 10 to 6 a. m. like the normal standard linear way of sleeping and I was exhausted mentally, emotionally and physically.

Stephanie: Yeah. Right from fighting it and thinking something is wrong and it should be like the proper way of sleeping and I stopped fighting it true working through like, this is it. This is it’s present for me in my life. I’m not fighting it anymore. Then my day starts at 4 am. What can I tell you? Like, and it goes to bed at 7.

Stephanie: 30, but it starts at 4 a. m. I don’t fight it. I’ve learned not to fight my body at all for any reason.

Dr. Jenn: Yeah. Yeah. And I think that sleep is a great example of something that most people going through perimenopause notice huge changes with. and it’s often that waking at 3 a. m.

Stephanie: Yeah.

Dr. Jenn: Oh, yeah. No, that’s like, I mean, it’s almost a meme.

Dr. Jenn: I think it is a meme, you know, kind of waking up at 3 a. m. and just being like wide awake. and it’s fabulous. If you, if your life allows you to go to bed at 7 or 8 o’clock, it’s definitely a struggle. I think when people can’t do that for whatever reason. And, you know, it becomes such a slog to, you know, to Try and sleep and to try to get back to sleep and to worry about sleep.

Dr. Jenn: But that those early sleep changes are definitely one of the first symptoms of perimenopause that I think most people go through.

Stephanie: Am I correct to say that menopause and perimenopause. Almost became like, a continuation of our thin ideal, like we’re both in the non diet space where the body of a woman should be all looking the same way, and we should all fit the same way.

Stephanie: And we’re going through menopause, and the more I’m hearing and I’m paying attention to the narrative, like, We shouldn’t be having symptoms. Like there’s a way to avoid the symptoms and if you do this, you’re going to sleep. And if you do this, you won’t. Is that really possible to not have symptoms? And if we’re perfect enough, we’re just going to ride that sucker up?

Dr. Jenn: Well, it’s an interesting question that I don’t know exactly the answer to. I know that there are, you know, there’s research from other countries where menopause is not described in the way that we describe it. Is that because it doesn’t exist, or is it because those are patriarchal cultures that have never cared about women’s health?

Dr. Jenn: I was going to say, who’s writing the research? Exactly. but, you know, if we look at North American experiences, European experiences. We’re going to notice a huge range and again, that probably comes down to genetics. We know that genetics are a big driver of when we go into menopause and your mother’s experience of menopause can hint at what yours will be like.

Dr. Jenn: It’s not perfect, obviously, but then, you know, we have all of these other factors that can influence. Not only our symptoms, but also just our experience, how much support we have, access to health care, stress, companionship, you know, all of those things can influence our experience of it. So I think it’s a really hard question to answer as yes or no.

Dr. Jenn: I think that we’re just scratching the surface, though, of the things that we can do to make the experience more positive and comfortable.

Stephanie: I love that more positive and comfortable. But not thinking there’s something wrong with the experience.

Dr. Jenn: It’s not, you know, it’s not a pathology. Yes. So just like pregnancy can come with all kinds of ups and downs and complications and not so fun parts, but it’s not a pathology.

Stephanie: Just like large body are not a pathology. Menopause is not a pathology. It comes in body diversity and menopause diversity, I guess.

Dr. Jenn: Yeah, absolutely.

Stephanie: and we’re sold by the industry, the illusion that there is a product, there is a process, if we sacrifice enough and if we’re hard enough. then we can avoid all the symptoms,

Dr. Jenn: and I don’t think that exists, obviously.

Stephanie: And as I’m saying that, like, it’s because I was just teaching a class on healthism, and I’m not niche in menopause or perimenopause, but it’s almost like we feel a shame of having symptoms and not being able to solve them. Could you say that, your observation of life in population?

Dr. Jenn: Yeah, I think that, you know, when, especially when it comes to things like hot flashes, you know, in the workplace, for example,a lot of women will apologize for them.

Dr. Jenn: We’ll try and hide the fact that they’re having them. and I think that it’s just like everything else. We just need to name it and call it, you know, and. The more that we talk about it, the more that we normalize that, like, this is something that literally every woman on the planet or every person with a uterus and ovaries on the planet is going to go through, and 75 percent of them will experience hot flashes.

Dr. Jenn: Like, why don’t we normalize that? Right. So taking away the shame for that is, I think, a big part of how we improve the experience. you know, being able to name it and also being able to name it accesses solutions more easily and readily because people aren’t afraid or ashamed to ask for help.

Stephanie: Yeah, so I’m going to come out and say, like, I’ve started to take the birth control pill for my perimenopause. Yeah. And there’s a, like, when I listen to wellness culture, because I still have a lot of colleagues entrenched in wellness culture, and it’s just a shame of doing that, like, they shame people for going to take birth control pill to manage their symptoms.

Stephanie: Yeah. It’s sad. I mean,

Dr. Jenn: it’s crazy because, yeah, wellness culture tells us that we are a better person for suffering through it. Right.

Stephanie: Talk to me about that. Yes.

Dr. Jenn: And so if we can manage menopause without any hormones, without any help, then somehow we are, we emerge more virtuous on the other side and that’s ridiculous.

Dr. Jenn: Right. And I mean, and that is, that’s so rooted in patriarchy and ageism and wellness culture and all of that, you know, and a lot of the symptoms that we need help managing directly impact our quality of life, mood, heavy periods, what I call crime scene periods that like make it so that you’re afraid to leave the house, let alone stand up.

Dr. Jenn: Or sit anywhere exactly, you know, and that leads to iron deficiency and like all, you know, it’s this trickle down effect. I mean, when I was in the thick of my perimenopause, I was having to set 2 alarms at night, not to bleed through and I was going to bed with like towels down and I would wake up with like, and I’d be like, Oh, and I’d like run to the bathroom. Like, you know, why is, okay. Why is anyone expected to suffer through any of that? you know, the mood changes and the risk of depression and anxiety is increased. And so we need to just normalize that, Hey, this can go on for 10 years, folks like. You don’t need to suffer through a decade of your life just because somebody tells you that you should, because there is no value in that.

Stephanie: As you were talking, there was a word that kept ringing in my brain, Like the obsession of the perfect menopause and perimenopause? Like, it’s almost the same thing as alphism.

Dr. Jenn: Yeah. I think that there is this, you know, wellness culture likes to develop these rituals, right?

Dr. Jenn: and these rhythms that if you do these things in this order, you will unlock this next level. which of course we know is bullshit, but so I think that what we really need to do is create community where we’re talking about the range of experiences so that no one ever thinks they’re alone in their suffering in perimenopause,

Stephanie: so that, normal. Exactly. Normalizing it, right?

Dr. Jenn: The number of people who have reached out to me and have said that the only place they have ever heard anyone talk about the things that I talk about is on my podcast, because they don’t have any friends who are going through it. They don’t have any family, their mother either.

Dr. Jenn: didn’t talk about it, isn’t around anymore, or had a hysterectomy, like, we’re just not talking about what is normal. And normal doesn’t mean like, oh, it’s normal and I just have to suffer through it. Normal means like, what can you expect, right? Like, what can you expect in the next five or ten years so that you know what to look for?

Stephanie: And whatever comes doesn’t mean anything about you. Exactly. Might it doesn’t mean you didn’t work hard enough and try hard enough. It’s just part of this package of being a person with ovaries. Exactly. Including we’re going to go down the topic of weight gain.

Dr. Jenn: Yes, which 80 plus percent of people going through perimenopause and menopause experience. Sometimes it’s. Or I should say often it’s the number on the scale, if they’re using a scale that has changed or their clothing size, but probably even more common than that is this redistribution of assets as I call it. Where, because we are moving from this higher estrogen state to a lower estrogen state, and the hormones are all shifting.

Dr. Jenn: We go from the pear shape to the apple shape. So, even if. Your body isn’t changing in mass what you see in the mirror and how your clothes fit is changing. And that is uncomfortable because our default programming tells us that there’s something wrong with that and that there’s something wrong with us because of it.

Dr. Jenn: So, you know, when I ask people, what is your most bothersome symptom? it’s the body changes that always come out on top. They’re like, I’d love to be done with the hot flashes too, but it’s really, it’s this body stuff that I just am having such a hard time with, but it does get even more nuanced or complicated because there’s, we now know that we’re seeing in the research, there’s a second peak of eating disorders that is happening in perimenopause.

Dr. Jenn: So the same changes that are happening in our brain. In puberty that lead to or contribute to body dissatisfaction and body dysmorphia, we’re seeing again as women go through perimenopause. So we have this physiological process that is changing what our body looks like on the inside and the outside.

Dr. Jenn: And our brain is going through reverse puberty. And so it is a damn uncomfortable time for anybody in the middle of an already busy time of life. So it is, it does feel like a big flaming bag of garbage most of the time. Like that is a normal experience that we need to talk about.

Stephanie: And I believe so from my world being a lot about body image. Here’s my perspective on this is that women come to perimenopause or menopause the weight gain happened and it’s the trigger to body image issue that perhaps before the escape to controlling food or perhaps the had 10 privilege. It wasn’t a thing. And all of a sudden the thing that was stable now flares up quote unquote. And now their body image stuff comes up.

Dr. Jenn: It’s exactly what happens.

Stephanie: Because for me, as a person who’s done because of my weight, body image long time ago, gaining weight is not a big bag of problem, it’s just, oh, my body changed, but I’m already, I came into it neutral. And that’s not the position of most women.

Dr. Jenn: no. And because we also get the messaging from diet and wellness culture that we need to fight that tooth and nail, because of all of the. you know, implied and stated complications of gaining weight. it becomes a really fear based conversation. And, you know, I’m sure you see it as well, that people will come in and just say, I’m terrified and I need to do something.

Dr. Jenn: And yet they also know in their heart of hearts. Because of this gift of midlife that they cannot start another diet. So they feel stuck in this rock in this hard place and they just don’t know where to turn.

Stephanie: And that’s why people like me and you, our message needs to get broadcasted louder. So people have an option to say, like, it’s not true. You’re stuck. We’re here. We can help you go through that differently without putting you on another diet and losing weight being the solution.

Dr. Jenn: Exactly.

Stephanie: So. What I hear from you is that weight gain is normal and it’s not a sign that something has gone wrong with your menopause and you need to control it. It’s instead just part and parcel of perimenopause and menopause. And perhaps Another call to do the work of body neutrality or acceptance, whatever school you’re in and truly make peace with your body.

Dr. Jenn: Yeah, because at the end of the day, we can’t reverse it, right? You know, this is a change that’s programmed into our DNA.

Dr. Jenn: and so if we think about. The purpose of it, you know, one of the leading theories is that extra fat around our midsection produces estrogen, helps to protect our bones and our heart and our brain as we go through menopause. and so if we start to see purpose to it, I think that it helps us to have a bit more compassion for why it’s happening.

Dr. Jenn: And if we can have that body neutral, you know, foundation. Then we can just kind of see it as something that is happening around us and not something that’s happening to us. Yeah. I love that. You’re going gray. Right. Like, yeah, my hair’s going gray. and I like to diet right now, but at some point I, I won’t feel like that’s worth it.

Dr. Jenn: you know, I’m getting wrinkles. or I should say I have wrinkles. I don’t particularly feel a strong inclination to, to change that. Right. Because I know that that’s happening. That’s part of the process. That’s part of the privilege of getting older.

Stephanie: And I don’t, for me, the way I teach body neutrality is your body is a tool to experience life is just one of the thing that your tool has as a way of aging, which is gray hair, which is weight gain on the belly. It doesn’t mean anything about you as a. Spare it to a person behind the body. Now, do you, and this is where often people, my message gets like overtaken.

Stephanie: Like, if it’s a tool that I need to maximize its efficiency. No, no, no, no, no. Like we don’t need to like, this is why I started with a high protein conversation. We can also talk about muscle building. People have this representation that we degrade, we shrink and we lose all our muscle because now we’re in perimenopause or menopause.

Stephanie: Is that the case?

Dr. Jenn: no, not in that way. but all humans, not just women, but all humans, you know, really kind of start to become challenged at building and maintaining muscle as we get older. It’s much easier at 18 than it is at 68 to build muscle, but there are huge returns on investment if we can.

Dr. Jenn: build or maintain a bit of muscle as we get older. and it has nothing to do with appearance and everything to do with how you live in your body. and you know, from maintaining your balance and being able to carry your groceries up the stairs, to being able to live your best life when you retire.

Dr. Jenn: So shifting the focus from, I need to work out to shape what my body looks like. To I want to move my body and make it as strong as I can within reason and my means so that I can feel healthy and well, as I go through the season of life, I think is a huge part of that body neutral conversation too.

Stephanie: And I have the same opinion as you. It’s like all human lose muscle. Now, what kind of life do I want to lead when I’m 70, when I’m 80, if I. have the choice to let it be what it is, but I also have in today’s world the privilege to be able to do some muscle building exercise that will allow me to be a kick ass 70 years old that travels the world, that can walk around for miles on end and just enjoys her life.

Stephanie: I get to choose how I want to live. That part of my life. Exactly. Any parting words for our audience or any topic I haven’t talked about that you absolutely want to put on the forefront of women as they’re going through peri and menopause.

Dr. Jenn: I think we’ve covered a lot, actually. I mean, the biggest thing that I always tell people is that, you know, just because it’s normal doesn’t mean that you have to wing it.

Dr. Jenn: And so, so many people are focused on having the natural menopause experience or just, you know, biding their time to wait until it’s over, believing that like they just have to get to that last period. But regardless of whether you’re having a lot of symptoms or not, If you’re noticing these perimenopausal changes, it’s a great time to actually start thinking about the next season of your life and how can I plan, prepare, get excited about it.

Dr. Jenn: life without a period is pretty awesome. Not going to lie. Right. And so, just being able upsides. To midlife, there are upsides to being in menopause and you don’t have to fear it because it is not the end.

Stephanie: And it’s true the 2nd season of life is often triggered by perimenopause and menopause and that’s the opportunity for us to ask ourselves, what do we really want?

Stephanie: How do I want to live the rest of my life? Yeah, exactly. Where can people find you, Jen? I know you got some pretty cool stuff. You haven’t talked about it so far, but it’s time now to tell people where they can find you.

Dr. Jenn: Well, I mean, I hang out on Instagram too much, so it’s probably where people can find me easiest. It’s at menopause. nutritionist, but my podcast, the midlife feast and the community, my membership community by the same name are really where people can connect and learn with me if they want to dive a little bit deeper into anything that we’re doing here. And I can share those links with you

Stephanie: and the podcast because they’re going to listen to this on the midlife feast.

Stephanie: Perfect. Let’s all go in and listen to that. Thank you very much, Jen, for sharing your time with us today.

Dr. Jenn: Thanks so much for having me.

 

 

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376-Health Promoting Habits that Feel Damn Good

376-Health Promoting Habits that Feel Damn Good

Health Promoting Habits

There’s a lot of misunderstandings around health behaviors and these misunderstandings are what is causing us to be on and off of our habits that we know make us feel damn good.

Anything we teach inside Undiet Your Life is counterculture and revolutionary because that’s what we need as women socialized to diet & wellness culture to liberate ourselves and create our best life.

And how we think about health-promoting habits also needs to change. 

Shift #1 Health is not a moral obligation

Contrary to what diet & wellness culture and may have taught you, health is not a moral obligation, just like being in a particular body size or weight.

You are free to decide how and if you will pursue health.

This shift is most important in our ability to experience ease in creating new health behaviors. Moving from “I have to” to “I choose to” moves us into being in a position of autonomy and power over our reality. 

Shift #2- Health is more than physical health 

As women socialize to the thin ideal, we have been socialized that we are our body and that our health is the outcome of our physical body. That leads to poor mental and emotional health resulting in challenging behavioral patterns.

Health comprises four bodies: Mental, Emotional, Spiritual and Physical. All equally important and worthy of the investment of our resources

Shift #3 Health is not a destination

When we move away from health as a signal of our worthiness, we can appreciate our health as a resource.

Health is a state of adaptation that allows you to adequately cope with all demands of daily life AND create your best life, the one you choose to live.

What you’ll learn listening to this episode:

  • My story with health promoting habits
  • 3 shifts we teach to undiet your life
  • What cause us to be on and off of our habits that we know make us feel damn good.

Mentioned in the show: 

Health Habits Checklist

Undiet Your Life Program

Non-Diet Coaching Certification

Social Determinant of Health

Show 341- How to create new health habits

 

 

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375-Intergenerational Dieting: Mother-Daughter Relationship with Dr. Morgan Francis

375-Intergenerational Dieting: Mother-Daughter Relationship with Dr. Morgan Francis

Intergenerational Dieting

Intergenerational Dieting: Mother-Daughter Relationship

Studies have found that women who began dieting at early ages were more likely to have daughters who would engage in binging or have problems with eating. These mothers were also more likely than other women to agree, when asked, that their daughters should lose weight.

That’s my story. I learned dieting with my many ants and mom. So what happen when you stop dieting and are on the journey to accepting your body and she’s not?

That is what we explore today, Dr. Morgan Francis. She’s a former dieter and now a mom of 3 who specializes in the treatment of body image, sexual health, relationships, self-empowerment, and eating disorders. 

What you’ll learn listening to this episode on Intergenerational Dieting:

  • What is intergenerational dieting and did it affect you
  • How to best approach your mother when you decide to stop dieting and she doesn’t  
  •  The Role of Mother-Daughter Relationships in Determining Body Image
  • How to help your children form great self-esteem and body image

Mentioned in the show: 

Health Habits Checklist

Undiet Your Life Program

Non-Diet Coaching Certification

Connect with our guest:

Dr. Morgan Francis’ 10 Ways to Build Body Confidence

Instagram – Morgan Francis

Facebook – Morgan Francis

Transcript

Intergenerational Dieting with Dr. Morgan Francis

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This is episode 375 of the Beyond the Food Show and today we’re going to talk about entergenerational dieting. And the mother daughter relationship around dieting. You don’t want to miss this. Stay tuned.

Hey you, welcome back to the podcast. I don’t know if you can feel it in my voice, but I’m very excited about the next hour we’re going to spend together on this podcast for two reasons. Number one, because we’re going to talk about something that’s near and dear to my heart, the mother daughter relationship and dieting. But first, I am here to announce something. That is pretty damn cool. We are launching Health Habit School inside of a NIA2LIFE program and I have been sitting on that project for at least two years and it’s happening now. I want to invite you if you want to create a new health habit and

that’s the first thing to know about this project, Health Habit School. You don’t have to create any health habit if you’re not ready, if it’s not your thing, and you don’t have any interest in that. And I don’t want the creation of Health Habit School to be perceived that it’s because you have to.

Health promoting behavior are optional and they are Something that you choose to do or not, and there is no shame, guilt, if you don’t take any action towards your health right now. For whatever reason, it’s irrelevant. That’s the first thing I want you to know about this project. Now the second thing is that if you are ready to learn how to create health habits that have nothing to do with the size of your pants, And that do not involve external motivation like self criticism, judgment, willpower.

This is the place where you want to be. Unfortunately, diet culture for any one of us who has. been involved in diet culture, dieting, shrinking your body, and even wellness culture. We have been taught that in order for us to create the motivation to care for ourselves, we have to center it around controlling, managing, shrinking our body, that we are not enough as who we are right now, and we need to do it to become good enough.

Like this, the whole motivation around health habit is actually what causes us to go on the on and off cycle, not just with dieting. With movement, with self care, with mental health and emotional health habits we have that get us on that on and off cycle that makes us prime target for wellness culture and diet culture programs and gimmicks and product because the way we have learned to create the habit is the problem.

So we’re going to unlearn, unpack all of this inside of health habits school. And it’s going to be mind breaking to many of you. And I know it was for me when I learned, when I had to unlearn the way I was creating habits for almost 30 years and relearn how to create habits for the rest of my life. And that’s what I want to teach you and coach you on how to embody that.

We are launchingthe Health Habits School registration on October the 1st. And our first class will be on October 15th. And we’ll go on of having a class every week for the month of October and beginning of November. And we will have coaching calls twice a month to help you as you embrace this new way of teaching.

Thinking and following through on habits to support you and creating these habits. For the rest of your life. So if you want in, go to stephaniedozier. com forward slash Undie at Your Life. If you are listening to this right now, it’s a wait list for Undie at Your Life. Join the wait list. You’ll be the first to know when we open, the first chance to register for Undie at Your Life.

And we start October 15th. And if you’re listening to this at, I don’t know, 2024, like. Past October 2023, know that this module of Health Habits will be something that is part of On Diet Your Life at any time you join going forward. So it’s accessible to you no matter when you’re listening to this podcast.

Okay, now today’s topic on intergenerational dieting and mother daughter’s relationship. I have brought on a guest today to help me explore this topic for two reasons. Number one, I have a mom, but I don’t have children. So I wanted someone with the lived experience of how she raise and interact with her daughter, not to create or repeat the pattern of diet, culture, and also an expert in relationships.

So I have on the podcast for you today, Dr. Francis. She’s a therapist and she specialize. It’s on body image, relationship to food, relationship, mom and daughter, anything that has to do with dieting and the unfortunate side effect of it. So we’re going to unpack these concepts for you first. We’re going to explain what intergenerational dieting is and how to approach your relationship with your mom, who perhaps is still dieting, and then how to raise.

A daughter that is not going to be the target of diet culture. How to build up the self esteem of your children so they won’t say no to diet culture right off the bat. Okay, we’re going to roll in this interview, enjoy and I can’t wait to hear comments from you. I love you, my sister. I’ll see you on the next podcast.​

Stephanie: welcome to the show, Dr. Morgan.

Dr. Morgan: Thank you so much for having me.

Stephanie: It’s extraordinary the world of internet, how we move our relationship from finding each other on Instagram to conversing in DM and now being face to face on zoom. I’m so excited for this.

Dr. Morgan: Yeah, me too. I’m a big fan of yours.

Stephanie: Same thing here. And I want to pull on to your skill of counseling because that’s what you do. And I want to talk about mother daughter relationship, contextualize around the journey of liberating ourselves from diet culture. So I’m going to get us started with this concept of intergenerational dieting. How would you define that? What does that mean for you?

Dr. Morgan: What that means for me and how I explore that with my clients is getting an understanding of how dieting not only has shown up in their life, but also has shown up in their mother’s lives, their grandmother’s lives, their aunt’s lives, and maybe also even the men in their life too, because it is something that we see passed down from generation to generation.

Dr. Morgan: And so there could be messaging, along, be thin at all costs. skinny’s better than anything else, to remain youthful, right? And the aging process is another area as well that’s been passed down from generation to generation. And so these messages, right? Can show up in many ways.

Dr. Morgan: It can be like the mother saying something directly to her daughter, or it can be the mother saying something about a friend of the daughter’s comparing the daughter to a friend or comparing the daughter to another child in the family. or the mother making comments about her own body shape and size that maybe she.

Dr. Morgan: Experience self loathing or self hatred about and so because the mom hated her body, she wants to make sure her daughter doesn’t hate hers. And so one of the biggest questions I get asked from moms is how do I make sure my daughter has body confidence? And what I, ask back to the mom is how are you working on yours?

Dr. Morgan: What are you doing to ensure that you have body confidence because you can’t expect her to love her body or appreciate her body if you are grimacing at your own reflection in the mirror, or if you’re continuing to have diet conversation, or if you’re cutting out food groups, or if your body shaming yourself.

Dr. Morgan: So it really starts with the people around us. And that’s why we see so many women when we asked, when was your first diet? It’s typically when they were an adolescent. Okay. Yeah. They saw their mom diet. They saw their mom go to Weight Watchers, right? And so that intergenerational trauma of diet culture is something that to have many conversations about.

Stephanie: Yeah. That’s my story. Like I was enrolled, that would have been like in 1985 to 1990s in a family diet at 12 years old. Like all my aunts and my moms and we were like 15 women dieting together.

Dr. Morgan: Yes. Yes. Yes. Exactly. Yes. I used to get paid to lose weight. So my mom would bribe me. So if I lost weight, it was, Oh, you can get this amount of money or I’ll buy you this dress or you can have these shoes. So there was like bribery involved. And again, I really, I don’t mean to speak ill towards my mom or any of the women that have done this to their children. I think again, my mom was coming from a good intentional place, right? She was trying to protect me from, I have quotations going on here. Like trying to protect me. From the, her own body shame, right? But you can see the damage that it did. Right.

Stephanie: And so let’s talk about that because that’s one point as a counselor. I want you to help people understand because when I coach women, they’re doing their own work, right? They’re doing their own body acceptance journey. And then they realize through my various process that they’ve learned it intergenerationally. Like from their mom and their aunts, and now they have this difficult relationship with their mom. Like she caused that to me, like she’s the source of that. Like how do we start processing intergenerational dieting when we’ve learned it without making it the blame game and feeling terrible about who we learned it from?

Dr. Morgan: Yeah, that’s such a great question. So I think it takes a tremendous amount of healing. Right and minus amount of, like, safe space to provide the person that we’re working with to have the ability to, cry to feel the sadness to feel the pain, the anger, the hurt and to validate that right to validate that inner child. That was wounded through these conversations and the messages that they received. And one of the things that I honestly just had this conversation about is, my ability to be okay, is not going to be dependent upon my mom, understanding how hurtful those messages were. Like I would never go back to a bully and expect them to say, sorry, for me to be okay.

Dr. Morgan: We don’t look to the bully to apologize. I’m going to heal myself. I’m going to be okay, regardless of what you do, because not every parent is going to say, you’re right, honey. I am so sorry for the way that I hurt you. I feel awful. I really, I did some really bad things and I’m really sorry. We, if you get that good for you, but most people don’t, or your parent could be dead.

Dr. Morgan: And then what do you do? Right. Or the grandma could be dead. It doesn’t even have to be just your mom. It could be an aunt. Right. So your healing is depending upon you and your work. And so it’s about being able to nurture and take care of that little girl inside of you that has been wounded by stopping those intergenerational diaculture patterns.

Dr. Morgan: Right. So I’m no longer going to be hard on myself. I’m not going to body shame myself. I’m going to give myself permission to eat what my body wants. I’m going to give myself permission to wear what I want to wear. I’m going to, I’m going to throw out the scale. I’m not going to track my calories. I’m going to honor my hunger and my fullness, and I’m going to move my body in a way that feels good, right? So really, it’s about permission, and it’s about freedom, and honoring and loving ourselves, no matter what our moms or aunts or grandmothers say to us in response to our pain.

Stephanie: So it’s that first looking to comfort ourselves, to meet ourselves with compassion.

Stephanie: Mm hmm. Now let’s go to the next step. My mom, my aunt, my grandmother is still present in my life. Mm hmm. Right, which is usually where it leads to is. They’re still present in my life and I still want to interact. I want to have a social life with my mom. How do I do that when I just learned that she’s part of the reason why I am where I am today?

Stephanie: How do I engage with her now? And she may not be on the same journey as me. She’s still perhaps diving and hating her body.

Dr. Morgan: Yes. That’s a great question. Boundaries. it’s that B word it’s boundaries and we get to decide what those boundaries look like. It may mean that I can’t have conversations with you, mom, about dieting and food, mom.

Dr. Morgan: I don’t want to know when you’re on your diet. I don’t want to know if you’ve lost weight, you’ve gained weight. And I don’t want you to talk about that to my children, mom, you cannot comment on my children’s weight. Right, like, it’s having those conversations for us, those boundaries for us, and also if you are a mother, having boundaries around your own children.

Stephanie: You know, that’s the next step, yeah, the next generation after.

Dr. Morgan: Next generation, right,

Stephanie: A lot of women feel really uncomfortable with setting boundaries.

Dr. Morgan: we’ve been conditioned to be pleasers, right? We were raised to be pleasers. So having boundaries means I say no, which is the opposite of people pleasing because people pleasers always say yes, right? So we, as women have been conditioned to be pleasers, not only in what we say, but how we look, how we dress, how we show up in a meeting, right? God forbid, I’m a bitch. I always need to be nice. Yes. I always need to be well liked, right? So that’s been a condition. So for us to have boundaries means I’m saying no. And really what I’m teaching, what I teach to my clients is we can be respectful and how we say no.

Stephanie: Ooh, tell me more about this. That’s, I think that’s the key that’s going to make women wanting to embark in setting boundaries.

Dr. Morgan: Yes. So I think there’s this idea that boundaries are mean and they’re selfish, right?

Dr. Morgan: and I, I can never say that, right? and no, that’s not what we’re looking for. We’re not looking to be disrespectful, right? We’re not looking to be mean. We’re looking to hold space because the boundaries for us. Now mom could still talk about her dieting. I can’t control that. But what I can control is how I respond to that.

Dr. Morgan: And that’s the boundary. So maybe I respond by removing myself. Maybe I go into another room. Maybe I go into the bathroom and take a couple deep breaths. Maybe I gently say, and respectfully say, I understand that you’re trying to go on a diet again, but it’s uncomfortable for me to talk about it. And so I prefer if we just change the subject, or maybe I just change the subject and that’s my boundary.

Dr. Morgan: Right. It doesn’t have to be mom. No, I’m not talking about this. It doesn’t have to be harsh. It can be gentle. It can be respectful. Right. And I think as women, we can start to kind of practice the boundaries. Right? It doesn’t have to be like, we take the low hanging fruit, right? If mom is like the top of the tree, we just go with the low hanging fruit. And maybe the boundaries start with someone we don’t know, right?

Stephanie: Well, that’s a great way, like, like titrating, like approaching gradually the intensity of the relationship and learning to set boundaries. Correct.

Dr. Morgan: So maybe it’s with the Starbucks barista and maybe she got your drink order wrong or she misspelled your name. And so you say, Oh, hi, actually I run at this hot, not iced, right? That’s about it. Like I’m speaking up for myself instead of being a comedy and oh, it’s okay. I’ll take it this way. Oh, why? Why would you take it something the way you don’t want it? Men wouldn’t. A man would go right up there and say, actually this is, I don’t want this. This isn’t right. Right. He would probably be harsh. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We don’t, we, and so we can be gentle and we can be kind and still have the boundaries because remember the boundaries are meant for us, they’re not meant for others, right? And so it’s giving ourselves self compassion and that’s an area and a muscle that we as women have not really learned. How to be compassionate to ourselves because the world is not compassionate to us.

Stephanie: It is not. It’s a muscle we have to build. Let’s talk about one of the things I find often is the power dynamic, right? Mother, daughter. So when we come to the world of boundary, there’s really like, can I really say that to my mom?

Stephanie: Can I like, my mom is in the position of authority over me, even if I’m 35 years old, like I’m still in that. That little girl, mom relationship. So there’s also like, how do we deal with that dynamic that we think about our relationship to our mom?

Dr. Morgan: I think it’s a couple of pieces of that one cultural, right?

Dr. Morgan: Ethnicity, right? So if we’re, we have to look at, some of the background. And if the ethnicity and the culture behind it, because I really, truly believe that there’s certain cultures that is very much more prevalent in than, you know, Eurocentric, which is, white female. So, I think we have to take that into an account. And I also think we have to take an account of the conditioning. Right. We’ve been conditioned to remain the little girl. So the mom can remain in the position of power. And I really like transactional analysis, which talks about, you have the parents, like the, like there’s two columns, right? Parent, parent, adult, adult, child, child. So if I’m going to, if I’m chronologically an adult, why am I still showing up as a child to my mom? Who’s the parent it needs to be here. We both need to be adults because chronologically we are both adults. So I need to use assertion. And I need to be able to be, in my place of empowerment while still being kind so that I can be the adult.

Dr. Morgan: And yes, mom may not like that. Right. And then I have to deal with those uncomfortable emotions. About mom not liking that. And I think that’s what we avoid. Those emotions.

Stephanie: Absolutely. We still like I can reflect back to one, one particular client who wasn’t that power dynamic. She was 35, but still like a 12 years old.

Stephanie: And mom was in the position of power. And she, part of the healing was reestablishing a equitable relationship of power. But the discomfort associated with doing that. Thanks. Thanks. Bye. That’s the roadblock.

Dr. Morgan: Yes. And it’s, and that’s usually it. It’s our emotions. Cause that means I have to deal with it because when I do something about it, that means I had to deal with it.

Dr. Morgan: I got to deal with it being my emotions. And many of us go through life avoiding our emotions, right? We distract ourselves. We avoid our emotions, but we’ll figure out ways to not talk about it.

Stephanie: Well, that’s why we diet. Would you agree?

Dr. Morgan: Absolutely. Well, one of the reasons is, you know, right. But yeah, yes, yes, for sure.

Dr. Morgan: For sure. And, and dieting, and this is what I talk about with my patients too, is dieting is like a mother. It mothers us. It tells us when to eat, how much to eat, what time to eat. Right. Like you can only eat at certain time. Like that’s what I do with an infant, right? When I’m feeding my toddler, I’m like, okay, you’re going to have this today.

Dr. Morgan: And I cut it up and make sure little Johnny’s like, okay, it’s lunchtime. he may not always know when he’s hungry. Although he may not have the ability to communicate when he’s hungry, he’ll cry. Right. But I’m mothering him and that’s what diets do. Diets mother us. And so I think a lot of us who didn’t have great moms rely on diets. It’s to tell us when to eat, what to eat, how much to eat.

Stephanie: And it takes our like, we don’t have a relationship of power with food, like dieting becomes the source of power and we just comply and obey to the rules that somebody set somewhere.

Dr. Morgan: Correct. Continual oppression, continual to neglect and be people pleasers.

Dr. Morgan: And then when the diet fails, we don’t blame the diet, we blame us. Yes. I didn’t have enough willpower, right? I didn’t have enough discipline. If I only could just, do the program correctly. Well, the program was never meant to work because the diet industry is a multi billion trillion dollar industry. It’s like going to Vegas and expecting to win. Vegas is not built on winners. It’s built on people losing their money.

Stephanie: And I want to say when we come from a. Family that, that the female or the women in our family. Portrayed that women are their body and we need to control our body to me, then we are again like, well, diet culture tells me this, my family environment tell me this, must be right. So it’s unpacking a lot of things.

Dr. Morgan: It’s so much unpacking. And that’s really what, and I’m sure you know this too, like when people are like, how do you work on your body image? I’m like, it’s not one, it’s all. Because your experience with your body is unique to you and my experience of my body is unique to me. Sure. Can there be collective experience? Yes, but there’s also your own unique experience that needs to be honored. And so there is no like pre package of this is how you do the work because your work is going to look different than mine and vice versa.

Stephanie: So let’s talk about, so we talked about boundaries and having the heart conversation and reestablishing the power dynamic between mom and daughter. But now I’m going to turn the table a little bit around and say, I’m a mom. And now I have a daughter. How, what is my role in building my daughter’s self image, her body image, or self esteem? Because it’s a collection of the three together.

Dr. Morgan: Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Well, I’m a mother, too. And I have a daughter, she’s 11, and I have two boys. nine and seven, and it’s been so fascinating for me to watch their, the etiology of their self image and their body image, because it’s just, it’s incredible, right. to watch this and to see all the influences. And I’m very aware, even as someone who specializes in this area and all the work that we do, that have

Stephanie: your own little experiment in your home.

Dr. Morgan: Yeah. that they could still struggle, right. Because I can’t protect them from everything. And it can be messaging from friends and classmates. And that’s actually something I hear a lot of is a lot of, bullying from peers, which is so, so painful to hear, or coaches or teachers, right? so there’s, and obviously social media too.

Dr. Morgan: And then all the things that, kids are exposed to on social media. So again, I think it’s coming, creating that safe place For your kids to come back to you and ask questions and have conversations, the hard conversations about their feelings of insecurity, or when someone picked on them or made fun of them or called them something.

Dr. Morgan: because it happens, it’s already, it’s happened numerous times with my kids about things that, about their bodies, about their physical features and there’s, you know, I can’t change this, this is who you are. Right. And so just sitting there and holding space for their hurt feelings is really important

Stephanie: and how you as a mom process your own body image will influence or really form the way your daughter will. Then relate to her own body so watching what you say and what you do if you haven’t done the work But I what it sound like is you have to do your own work as a mother in order for you to really set an environment of Neutrality around bodies. Am I correct?

Dr. Morgan: Exactly. So for instance, for example, we do not have a scale in the house You know It took forever for me to have a long length mirror. I don’t even know what my shoes looked like forever We make all foods available at all times of the day. I grew up in a home where it was only healthy snacks. And so, I remember being in my friend’s pantry, just like binging and all like the sugary goodness food. And I was like, this is heaven. And like her mom walked in, she’s like, Morgan, are you okay? And I’m like, I’m living my best life. Like, I’m good, Bonnie. And yeah, I mean, no, we really make everything available. and I mean, and that nothing’s off limits and it’s crazy to me because I was raised to have things off limits. And so when you make things available, they don’t want it.

Dr. Morgan: They actually don’t even want it. there’ll be nights and I’m like, do you want a cookie for dessert? And she’ll be like, no, I’m good. I’m like, really?

Stephanie: This thing really work. Growing up. Right? So, so you have a daughter and sons, I’d like to talk about what is the difference? What are you observing, seeing, or even like engaging differently with your son versus your daughter and body image?

Dr. Morgan: You know what is so interesting? So here I was, I was always most concerned about my daughter being a girl. Like he’ll change his outfit six times a day. His hair has to be a certain way before we leave. he’s concerned about his image and I’m like, gosh, this whole time I’ve been putting all my effort into her.

Dr. Morgan: And she’s like, I’m good. I’m fine. And she’s, whatever. And he’s the one that’s he’s sensitive around his self image. And so I’ve really had to nurture and pay attention to helping him with his confidence. And so I put affirmations all over the mirror. And so instead of looking at him, yeah, he’ll brush his teeth and he can see himself, but he reads the affirmations.

Dr. Morgan: I am enough. I am smart. I am kind. I matter. I am important. Right. So things beyond what he looks like. And now we get into, you know, it’s not about like what you look like in your outfit, but what feels comfortable for you, what helps you to move, what makes you feel happy, what colors do you want to wear today?

Dr. Morgan: it’s not about like the fitting. So I might say the fitting, not about the aesthetic, right. And so it’s just able to help him and nourish him just like I would her, even though he’s a boy.

Stephanie: Interesting. So what I’m hearing you say is that there’s an. Intersection very strong between self esteem and body image, and it shows up in the same way in boys and girls

Dr. Morgan: for right now at the ages that they are. Yes, it does now, I’m sure that will change as she goes through her puberty and goes into teenage years and vice versa for him. Right? But as of right now, 11 and 9, it really is just about. again, like the messages, if you’re hungry, eat something. If you’re not hungry and something sounds good, eat some, right. And I don’t, I hate the word healthy. We don’t use that word. Healthy doesn’t need to be healthy. We look for variety and volume, right? Did you get enough to eat? And are you having a variety of foods? Right.

Stephanie: We want detaching food from body like food is one thing and body is another thing.

Dr. Morgan: Yes. Yes. And so just like, again, it’s, I give the same message. Just to both of them. I’m not telling my daughter, watch what you eat. You know, that’s enough today. because she’s a girl, right. And saying my boy wrong, it’s time to get strong and put on, you know, weight, the muscle, right. Like, no, it’s, you know, my daughter, I mean, she had after school, I think she had a bagel she had with butter.

Dr. Morgan: She had Nutella. She had French fries. I was like, what else can I feed you child? Obviously you’re hungry. Let’s keep going, you know, and it’s just, we normalize it. It’s not anything about you. You’ve had enough. it’s actually quite the opposite. What else, what else can I get you?

Stephanie: That’s interesting. So if you were to give an advice, like of all the work you do with moms, if you were to give an advice to the mom listening to this, to break the next generation of dieting, what would it be?

Dr. Morgan: Well, it would be, since we are all on our phones, it would be really manage who you are following on social media.

Dr. Morgan: magazines for, was our kind of social media back in the day. And I was obsessed with magazines and the messaging and magazines and, look like the models in there. And and you and I both know this, like I can follow her diet, I can follow her fitness program and I’m still not going to look like her. It’ll never happen. And my genetics are my genetics and vice versa. so to me, it’s really about social media and, like looking at your account, looking at my account, like looking at the people that are really talking about diet culture, calling it out, naming it and giving tools and resources to help them. And I think that’s what I would really first focus on

Stephanie: And I’ll build on that. And while doing that. expose yourself to different visual input, different body size and texture of skins.

Dr. Morgan: I have the body diversity. We need to have way more representation. it’s so important to have that representation because, for me, when one of the, when my body image got really activated again was, postpartum and then I was like, wait a minute. The only images I see are of perfectly like. Tanned, nice skin texture, pregnant bellies, and then, or like a flat stomach. Like there was no in between. And I remember when Kate Middleton came out after her first baby, and she had cut, you know, still some stomach. And I was like, Oh my gosh, like that’s normal.

Dr. Morgan: Like what, and it was because it was the first representation I’ve seen. And so, that was a big piece for me. Postpartum, were to see bodies of all different shapes and sizes postpartum with scars and skin and discoloration and acne and loose skin. Like all of it. All of it, yes. So, and so that’s also one of the things to, I make sure around my house to, if I, it’s just me and my husband, like, I’ll just put like a sports bra on with like, I’m in Arizona, so super hot.

Dr. Morgan: So, put a sports bra on with like shorts. And like, let them see everything, like, it doesn’t need to, I mean, after I’ve eaten, like, I want them to see me with a stomach that’s full of food, I want them to see the discoloration, I want them to see the blemishes, I want them to see the rolls, I want them to see life.

Dr. Morgan: Right? I don’t want to be a quaffed manicured looking mom. I want them to see all the different types of things because that, again, is important. Right? It’s important for them to understand there’s diversity in body shapes and size. And your body doesn’t have to look like anybody’s body except for your own.

Stephanie: Yeah. And when we diversify the inputs of different body, We make different body normalized, even for children, because if we rely just on social, like standard social media and like TV, they’ll never have access to diversity. So we have to quote unquote force it almost.

Dr. Morgan: Yes, we really do. And so we talk about that, right? We talk about, being allies and inclusivity and on all subjects and all topics. It’s so important. Yes,

Stephanie: thank you for this because I think it’s going to help like having a professional counselor talk about the different ways that we can. Upward look at our relationship to our mom and influence the relationship we have with our own children.

Stephanie: I think that’s a tremendous tool and will alleviate a lot of sufferings in years to come. So thank you.

Dr. Morgan: You’re welcome. I’m happy to have this conversation.

Stephanie: How can people Get more of you where they can define you and work with you or if they can work with you

Dr. Morgan: The best way to find me is through instagram again one of the accounts what we you know, you and I promote a lot of the same messaging around body image and diet culture and food and your relationship with food.

Dr. Morgan: And so that’s a great resource. And then my email newsletter, which you can sign up through on my, my website, there’s freebies there that people can get, about body confidence. also I have a intuitive eating course. So it really goes through the 10 principles of intuitive eating. and I give really.

Dr. Morgan: Like tangible steps that a person can apply in their everyday life to make it much more manageable. And it is something that, like, you could do with a person, like a friend or a family member, to go on that journey together. and then I’m looking forward to this fall. I’ll have some webinars set up so that I can help educate people and give them that access to information.

Stephanie: You gave me this idea, like, wouldn’t it be nice to take the journey of intuitive eating with your mom?

Dr. Morgan: yes. I know. I’ve had clients do it and it’s really powerful. Like I had a mom and her teenage daughter do it together and it was awesome. It was like, gosh, like instead of going to Weight Watchers together.

Stephanie: Bingo. Like I’m thinking back to me dieting with the women in my family to now doing the intuitive eating journey. Wouldn’t

Dr. Morgan: it so much for having me. It was so nice to talk with you.

Intergenerational Dieting with Dr. Morgan Francis

This is episode 375 of the Beyond the Food Show and today we’re going to talk about entergenerational dieting. And the mother daughter relationship around dieting. You don’t want to miss this. Stay tuned.

Hey you, welcome back to the podcast. I don’t know if you can feel it in my voice, but I’m very excited about the next hour we’re going to spend together on this podcast for two reasons. Number one, because we’re going to talk about something that’s near and dear to my heart, the mother daughter relationship and dieting. But first, I am here to announce something. That is pretty damn cool. We are launching Health Habit School inside of a NIA2LIFE program and I have been sitting on that project for at least two years and it’s happening now. I want to invite you if you want to create a new health habit and

that’s the first thing to know about this project, Health Habit School. You don’t have to create any health habit if you’re not ready, if it’s not your thing, and you don’t have any interest in that. And I don’t want the creation of Health Habit School to be perceived that it’s because you have to.

Health promoting behavior are optional and they are Something that you choose to do or not, and there is no shame, guilt, if you don’t take any action towards your health right now. For whatever reason, it’s irrelevant. That’s the first thing I want you to know about this project. Now the second thing is that if you are ready to learn how to create health habits that have nothing to do with the size of your pants, And that do not involve external motivation like self criticism, judgment, willpower.

This is the place where you want to be. Unfortunately, diet culture for any one of us who has. been involved in diet culture, dieting, shrinking your body, and even wellness culture. We have been taught that in order for us to create the motivation to care for ourselves, we have to center it around controlling, managing, shrinking our body, that we are not enough as who we are right now, and we need to do it to become good enough.

Like this, the whole motivation around health habit is actually what causes us to go on the on and off cycle, not just with dieting. With movement, with self care, with mental health and emotional health habits we have that get us on that on and off cycle that makes us prime target for wellness culture and diet culture programs and gimmicks and product because the way we have learned to create the habit is the problem.

So we’re going to unlearn, unpack all of this inside of health habits school. And it’s going to be mind breaking to many of you. And I know it was for me when I learned, when I had to unlearn the way I was creating habits for almost 30 years and relearn how to create habits for the rest of my life. And that’s what I want to teach you and coach you on how to embody that.

We are launchingthe Health Habits School registration on October the 1st. And our first class will be on October 15th. And we’ll go on of having a class every week for the month of October and beginning of November. And we will have coaching calls twice a month to help you as you embrace this new way of teaching.

Thinking and following through on habits to support you and creating these habits. For the rest of your life. So if you want in, go to stephaniedozier. com forward slash Undie at Your Life. If you are listening to this right now, it’s a wait list for Undie at Your Life. Join the wait list. You’ll be the first to know when we open, the first chance to register for Undie at Your Life.

And we start October 15th. And if you’re listening to this at, I don’t know, 2024, like. Past October 2023, know that this module of Health Habits will be something that is part of On Diet Your Life at any time you join going forward. So it’s accessible to you no matter when you’re listening to this podcast.

Okay, now today’s topic on intergenerational dieting and mother daughter’s relationship. I have brought on a guest today to help me explore this topic for two reasons. Number one, I have a mom, but I don’t have children. So I wanted someone with the lived experience of how she raise and interact with her daughter, not to create or repeat the pattern of diet, culture, and also an expert in relationships.

So I have on the podcast for you today, Dr. Francis. She’s a therapist and she specialize. It’s on body image, relationship to food, relationship, mom and daughter, anything that has to do with dieting and the unfortunate side effect of it. So we’re going to unpack these concepts for you first. We’re going to explain what intergenerational dieting is and how to approach your relationship with your mom, who perhaps is still dieting, and then how to raise.

A daughter that is not going to be the target of diet culture. How to build up the self esteem of your children so they won’t say no to diet culture right off the bat. Okay, we’re going to roll in this interview, enjoy and I can’t wait to hear comments from you. I love you, my sister. I’ll see you on the next podcast.​

Stephanie: welcome to the show, Dr. Morgan.

Dr. Morgan: Thank you so much for having me.

Stephanie: It’s extraordinary the world of internet, how we move our relationship from finding each other on Instagram to conversing in DM and now being face to face on zoom. I’m so excited for this.

Dr. Morgan: Yeah, me too. I’m a big fan of yours.

Stephanie: Same thing here. And I want to pull on to your skill of counseling because that’s what you do. And I want to talk about mother daughter relationship, contextualize around the journey of liberating ourselves from diet culture. So I’m going to get us started with this concept of intergenerational dieting. How would you define that? What does that mean for you?

Dr. Morgan: What that means for me and how I explore that with my clients is getting an understanding of how dieting not only has shown up in their life, but also has shown up in their mother’s lives, their grandmother’s lives, their aunt’s lives, and maybe also even the men in their life too, because it is something that we see passed down from generation to generation.

Dr. Morgan: And so there could be messaging, along, be thin at all costs. skinny’s better than anything else, to remain youthful, right? And the aging process is another area as well that’s been passed down from generation to generation. And so these messages, right? Can show up in many ways.

Dr. Morgan: It can be like the mother saying something directly to her daughter, or it can be the mother saying something about a friend of the daughter’s comparing the daughter to a friend or comparing the daughter to another child in the family. or the mother making comments about her own body shape and size that maybe she.

Dr. Morgan: Experience self loathing or self hatred about and so because the mom hated her body, she wants to make sure her daughter doesn’t hate hers. And so one of the biggest questions I get asked from moms is how do I make sure my daughter has body confidence? And what I, ask back to the mom is how are you working on yours?

Dr. Morgan: What are you doing to ensure that you have body confidence because you can’t expect her to love her body or appreciate her body if you are grimacing at your own reflection in the mirror, or if you’re continuing to have diet conversation, or if you’re cutting out food groups, or if your body shaming yourself.

Dr. Morgan: So it really starts with the people around us. And that’s why we see so many women when we asked, when was your first diet? It’s typically when they were an adolescent. Okay. Yeah. They saw their mom diet. They saw their mom go to Weight Watchers, right? And so that intergenerational trauma of diet culture is something that to have many conversations about.

Stephanie: Yeah. That’s my story. Like I was enrolled, that would have been like in 1985 to 1990s in a family diet at 12 years old. Like all my aunts and my moms and we were like 15 women dieting together.

Dr. Morgan: Yes. Yes. Yes. Exactly. Yes. I used to get paid to lose weight. So my mom would bribe me. So if I lost weight, it was, Oh, you can get this amount of money or I’ll buy you this dress or you can have these shoes. So there was like bribery involved. And again, I really, I don’t mean to speak ill towards my mom or any of the women that have done this to their children. I think again, my mom was coming from a good intentional place, right? She was trying to protect me from, I have quotations going on here. Like trying to protect me. From the, her own body shame, right? But you can see the damage that it did. Right.

Stephanie: And so let’s talk about that because that’s one point as a counselor. I want you to help people understand because when I coach women, they’re doing their own work, right? They’re doing their own body acceptance journey. And then they realize through my various process that they’ve learned it intergenerationally. Like from their mom and their aunts, and now they have this difficult relationship with their mom. Like she caused that to me, like she’s the source of that. Like how do we start processing intergenerational dieting when we’ve learned it without making it the blame game and feeling terrible about who we learned it from?

Dr. Morgan: Yeah, that’s such a great question. So I think it takes a tremendous amount of healing. Right and minus amount of, like, safe space to provide the person that we’re working with to have the ability to, cry to feel the sadness to feel the pain, the anger, the hurt and to validate that right to validate that inner child. That was wounded through these conversations and the messages that they received. And one of the things that I honestly just had this conversation about is, my ability to be okay, is not going to be dependent upon my mom, understanding how hurtful those messages were. Like I would never go back to a bully and expect them to say, sorry, for me to be okay.

Dr. Morgan: We don’t look to the bully to apologize. I’m going to heal myself. I’m going to be okay, regardless of what you do, because not every parent is going to say, you’re right, honey. I am so sorry for the way that I hurt you. I feel awful. I really, I did some really bad things and I’m really sorry. We, if you get that good for you, but most people don’t, or your parent could be dead.

Dr. Morgan: And then what do you do? Right. Or the grandma could be dead. It doesn’t even have to be just your mom. It could be an aunt. Right. So your healing is depending upon you and your work. And so it’s about being able to nurture and take care of that little girl inside of you that has been wounded by stopping those intergenerational diaculture patterns.

Dr. Morgan: Right. So I’m no longer going to be hard on myself. I’m not going to body shame myself. I’m going to give myself permission to eat what my body wants. I’m going to give myself permission to wear what I want to wear. I’m going to, I’m going to throw out the scale. I’m not going to track my calories. I’m going to honor my hunger and my fullness, and I’m going to move my body in a way that feels good, right? So really, it’s about permission, and it’s about freedom, and honoring and loving ourselves, no matter what our moms or aunts or grandmothers say to us in response to our pain.

Stephanie: So it’s that first looking to comfort ourselves, to meet ourselves with compassion.

Stephanie: Mm hmm. Now let’s go to the next step. My mom, my aunt, my grandmother is still present in my life. Mm hmm. Right, which is usually where it leads to is. They’re still present in my life and I still want to interact. I want to have a social life with my mom. How do I do that when I just learned that she’s part of the reason why I am where I am today?

Stephanie: How do I engage with her now? And she may not be on the same journey as me. She’s still perhaps diving and hating her body.

Dr. Morgan: Yes. That’s a great question. Boundaries. it’s that B word it’s boundaries and we get to decide what those boundaries look like. It may mean that I can’t have conversations with you, mom, about dieting and food, mom.

Dr. Morgan: I don’t want to know when you’re on your diet. I don’t want to know if you’ve lost weight, you’ve gained weight. And I don’t want you to talk about that to my children, mom, you cannot comment on my children’s weight. Right, like, it’s having those conversations for us, those boundaries for us, and also if you are a mother, having boundaries around your own children.

Stephanie: You know, that’s the next step, yeah, the next generation after.

Dr. Morgan: Next generation, right,

Stephanie: A lot of women feel really uncomfortable with setting boundaries.

Dr. Morgan: we’ve been conditioned to be pleasers, right? We were raised to be pleasers. So having boundaries means I say no, which is the opposite of people pleasing because people pleasers always say yes, right? So we, as women have been conditioned to be pleasers, not only in what we say, but how we look, how we dress, how we show up in a meeting, right? God forbid, I’m a bitch. I always need to be nice. Yes. I always need to be well liked, right? So that’s been a condition. So for us to have boundaries means I’m saying no. And really what I’m teaching, what I teach to my clients is we can be respectful and how we say no.

Stephanie: Ooh, tell me more about this. That’s, I think that’s the key that’s going to make women wanting to embark in setting boundaries.

Dr. Morgan: Yes. So I think there’s this idea that boundaries are mean and they’re selfish, right?

Dr. Morgan: and I, I can never say that, right? and no, that’s not what we’re looking for. We’re not looking to be disrespectful, right? We’re not looking to be mean. We’re looking to hold space because the boundaries for us. Now mom could still talk about her dieting. I can’t control that. But what I can control is how I respond to that.

Dr. Morgan: And that’s the boundary. So maybe I respond by removing myself. Maybe I go into another room. Maybe I go into the bathroom and take a couple deep breaths. Maybe I gently say, and respectfully say, I understand that you’re trying to go on a diet again, but it’s uncomfortable for me to talk about it. And so I prefer if we just change the subject, or maybe I just change the subject and that’s my boundary.

Dr. Morgan: Right. It doesn’t have to be mom. No, I’m not talking about this. It doesn’t have to be harsh. It can be gentle. It can be respectful. Right. And I think as women, we can start to kind of practice the boundaries. Right? It doesn’t have to be like, we take the low hanging fruit, right? If mom is like the top of the tree, we just go with the low hanging fruit. And maybe the boundaries start with someone we don’t know, right?

Stephanie: Well, that’s a great way, like, like titrating, like approaching gradually the intensity of the relationship and learning to set boundaries. Correct.

Dr. Morgan: So maybe it’s with the Starbucks barista and maybe she got your drink order wrong or she misspelled your name. And so you say, Oh, hi, actually I run at this hot, not iced, right? That’s about it. Like I’m speaking up for myself instead of being a comedy and oh, it’s okay. I’ll take it this way. Oh, why? Why would you take it something the way you don’t want it? Men wouldn’t. A man would go right up there and say, actually this is, I don’t want this. This isn’t right. Right. He would probably be harsh. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We don’t, we, and so we can be gentle and we can be kind and still have the boundaries because remember the boundaries are meant for us, they’re not meant for others, right? And so it’s giving ourselves self compassion and that’s an area and a muscle that we as women have not really learned. How to be compassionate to ourselves because the world is not compassionate to us.

Stephanie: It is not. It’s a muscle we have to build. Let’s talk about one of the things I find often is the power dynamic, right? Mother, daughter. So when we come to the world of boundary, there’s really like, can I really say that to my mom?

Stephanie: Can I like, my mom is in the position of authority over me, even if I’m 35 years old, like I’m still in that. That little girl, mom relationship. So there’s also like, how do we deal with that dynamic that we think about our relationship to our mom?

Dr. Morgan: I think it’s a couple of pieces of that one cultural, right?

Dr. Morgan: Ethnicity, right? So if we’re, we have to look at, some of the background. And if the ethnicity and the culture behind it, because I really, truly believe that there’s certain cultures that is very much more prevalent in than, you know, Eurocentric, which is, white female. So, I think we have to take that into an account. And I also think we have to take an account of the conditioning. Right. We’ve been conditioned to remain the little girl. So the mom can remain in the position of power. And I really like transactional analysis, which talks about, you have the parents, like the, like there’s two columns, right? Parent, parent, adult, adult, child, child. So if I’m going to, if I’m chronologically an adult, why am I still showing up as a child to my mom? Who’s the parent it needs to be here. We both need to be adults because chronologically we are both adults. So I need to use assertion. And I need to be able to be, in my place of empowerment while still being kind so that I can be the adult.

Dr. Morgan: And yes, mom may not like that. Right. And then I have to deal with those uncomfortable emotions. About mom not liking that. And I think that’s what we avoid. Those emotions.

Stephanie: Absolutely. We still like I can reflect back to one, one particular client who wasn’t that power dynamic. She was 35, but still like a 12 years old.

Stephanie: And mom was in the position of power. And she, part of the healing was reestablishing a equitable relationship of power. But the discomfort associated with doing that. Thanks. Thanks. Bye. That’s the roadblock.

Dr. Morgan: Yes. And it’s, and that’s usually it. It’s our emotions. Cause that means I have to deal with it because when I do something about it, that means I had to deal with it.

Dr. Morgan: I got to deal with it being my emotions. And many of us go through life avoiding our emotions, right? We distract ourselves. We avoid our emotions, but we’ll figure out ways to not talk about it.

Stephanie: Well, that’s why we diet. Would you agree?

Dr. Morgan: Absolutely. Well, one of the reasons is, you know, right. But yeah, yes, yes, for sure.

Dr. Morgan: For sure. And, and dieting, and this is what I talk about with my patients too, is dieting is like a mother. It mothers us. It tells us when to eat, how much to eat, what time to eat. Right. Like you can only eat at certain time. Like that’s what I do with an infant, right? When I’m feeding my toddler, I’m like, okay, you’re going to have this today.

Dr. Morgan: And I cut it up and make sure little Johnny’s like, okay, it’s lunchtime. he may not always know when he’s hungry. Although he may not have the ability to communicate when he’s hungry, he’ll cry. Right. But I’m mothering him and that’s what diets do. Diets mother us. And so I think a lot of us who didn’t have great moms rely on diets. It’s to tell us when to eat, what to eat, how much to eat.

Stephanie: And it takes our like, we don’t have a relationship of power with food, like dieting becomes the source of power and we just comply and obey to the rules that somebody set somewhere.

Dr. Morgan: Correct. Continual oppression, continual to neglect and be people pleasers.

Dr. Morgan: And then when the diet fails, we don’t blame the diet, we blame us. Yes. I didn’t have enough willpower, right? I didn’t have enough discipline. If I only could just, do the program correctly. Well, the program was never meant to work because the diet industry is a multi billion trillion dollar industry. It’s like going to Vegas and expecting to win. Vegas is not built on winners. It’s built on people losing their money.

Stephanie: And I want to say when we come from a. Family that, that the female or the women in our family. Portrayed that women are their body and we need to control our body to me, then we are again like, well, diet culture tells me this, my family environment tell me this, must be right. So it’s unpacking a lot of things.

Dr. Morgan: It’s so much unpacking. And that’s really what, and I’m sure you know this too, like when people are like, how do you work on your body image? I’m like, it’s not one, it’s all. Because your experience with your body is unique to you and my experience of my body is unique to me. Sure. Can there be collective experience? Yes, but there’s also your own unique experience that needs to be honored. And so there is no like pre package of this is how you do the work because your work is going to look different than mine and vice versa.

Stephanie: So let’s talk about, so we talked about boundaries and having the heart conversation and reestablishing the power dynamic between mom and daughter. But now I’m going to turn the table a little bit around and say, I’m a mom. And now I have a daughter. How, what is my role in building my daughter’s self image, her body image, or self esteem? Because it’s a collection of the three together.

Dr. Morgan: Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Well, I’m a mother, too. And I have a daughter, she’s 11, and I have two boys. nine and seven, and it’s been so fascinating for me to watch their, the etiology of their self image and their body image, because it’s just, it’s incredible, right. to watch this and to see all the influences. And I’m very aware, even as someone who specializes in this area and all the work that we do, that have

Stephanie: your own little experiment in your home.

Dr. Morgan: Yeah. that they could still struggle, right. Because I can’t protect them from everything. And it can be messaging from friends and classmates. And that’s actually something I hear a lot of is a lot of, bullying from peers, which is so, so painful to hear, or coaches or teachers, right? so there’s, and obviously social media too.

Dr. Morgan: And then all the things that, kids are exposed to on social media. So again, I think it’s coming, creating that safe place For your kids to come back to you and ask questions and have conversations, the hard conversations about their feelings of insecurity, or when someone picked on them or made fun of them or called them something.

Dr. Morgan: because it happens, it’s already, it’s happened numerous times with my kids about things that, about their bodies, about their physical features and there’s, you know, I can’t change this, this is who you are. Right. And so just sitting there and holding space for their hurt feelings is really important

Stephanie: and how you as a mom process your own body image will influence or really form the way your daughter will. Then relate to her own body so watching what you say and what you do if you haven’t done the work But I what it sound like is you have to do your own work as a mother in order for you to really set an environment of Neutrality around bodies. Am I correct?

Dr. Morgan: Exactly. So for instance, for example, we do not have a scale in the house You know It took forever for me to have a long length mirror. I don’t even know what my shoes looked like forever We make all foods available at all times of the day. I grew up in a home where it was only healthy snacks. And so, I remember being in my friend’s pantry, just like binging and all like the sugary goodness food. And I was like, this is heaven. And like her mom walked in, she’s like, Morgan, are you okay? And I’m like, I’m living my best life. Like, I’m good, Bonnie. And yeah, I mean, no, we really make everything available. and I mean, and that nothing’s off limits and it’s crazy to me because I was raised to have things off limits. And so when you make things available, they don’t want it.

Dr. Morgan: They actually don’t even want it. there’ll be nights and I’m like, do you want a cookie for dessert? And she’ll be like, no, I’m good. I’m like, really?

Stephanie: This thing really work. Growing up. Right? So, so you have a daughter and sons, I’d like to talk about what is the difference? What are you observing, seeing, or even like engaging differently with your son versus your daughter and body image?

Dr. Morgan: You know what is so interesting? So here I was, I was always most concerned about my daughter being a girl. Like he’ll change his outfit six times a day. His hair has to be a certain way before we leave. he’s concerned about his image and I’m like, gosh, this whole time I’ve been putting all my effort into her.

Dr. Morgan: And she’s like, I’m good. I’m fine. And she’s, whatever. And he’s the one that’s he’s sensitive around his self image. And so I’ve really had to nurture and pay attention to helping him with his confidence. And so I put affirmations all over the mirror. And so instead of looking at him, yeah, he’ll brush his teeth and he can see himself, but he reads the affirmations.

Dr. Morgan: I am enough. I am smart. I am kind. I matter. I am important. Right. So things beyond what he looks like. And now we get into, you know, it’s not about like what you look like in your outfit, but what feels comfortable for you, what helps you to move, what makes you feel happy, what colors do you want to wear today?

Dr. Morgan: it’s not about like the fitting. So I might say the fitting, not about the aesthetic, right. And so it’s just able to help him and nourish him just like I would her, even though he’s a boy.

Stephanie: Interesting. So what I’m hearing you say is that there’s an. Intersection very strong between self esteem and body image, and it shows up in the same way in boys and girls

Dr. Morgan: for right now at the ages that they are. Yes, it does now, I’m sure that will change as she goes through her puberty and goes into teenage years and vice versa for him. Right? But as of right now, 11 and 9, it really is just about. again, like the messages, if you’re hungry, eat something. If you’re not hungry and something sounds good, eat some, right. And I don’t, I hate the word healthy. We don’t use that word. Healthy doesn’t need to be healthy. We look for variety and volume, right? Did you get enough to eat? And are you having a variety of foods? Right.

Stephanie: We want detaching food from body like food is one thing and body is another thing.

Dr. Morgan: Yes. Yes. And so just like, again, it’s, I give the same message. Just to both of them. I’m not telling my daughter, watch what you eat. You know, that’s enough today. because she’s a girl, right. And saying my boy wrong, it’s time to get strong and put on, you know, weight, the muscle, right. Like, no, it’s, you know, my daughter, I mean, she had after school, I think she had a bagel she had with butter.

Dr. Morgan: She had Nutella. She had French fries. I was like, what else can I feed you child? Obviously you’re hungry. Let’s keep going, you know, and it’s just, we normalize it. It’s not anything about you. You’ve had enough. it’s actually quite the opposite. What else, what else can I get you?

Stephanie: That’s interesting. So if you were to give an advice, like of all the work you do with moms, if you were to give an advice to the mom listening to this, to break the next generation of dieting, what would it be?

Dr. Morgan: Well, it would be, since we are all on our phones, it would be really manage who you are following on social media.

Dr. Morgan: magazines for, was our kind of social media back in the day. And I was obsessed with magazines and the messaging and magazines and, look like the models in there. And and you and I both know this, like I can follow her diet, I can follow her fitness program and I’m still not going to look like her. It’ll never happen. And my genetics are my genetics and vice versa. so to me, it’s really about social media and, like looking at your account, looking at my account, like looking at the people that are really talking about diet culture, calling it out, naming it and giving tools and resources to help them. And I think that’s what I would really first focus on

Stephanie: And I’ll build on that. And while doing that. expose yourself to different visual input, different body size and texture of skins.

Dr. Morgan: I have the body diversity. We need to have way more representation. it’s so important to have that representation because, for me, when one of the, when my body image got really activated again was, postpartum and then I was like, wait a minute. The only images I see are of perfectly like. Tanned, nice skin texture, pregnant bellies, and then, or like a flat stomach. Like there was no in between. And I remember when Kate Middleton came out after her first baby, and she had cut, you know, still some stomach. And I was like, Oh my gosh, like that’s normal.

Dr. Morgan: Like what, and it was because it was the first representation I’ve seen. And so, that was a big piece for me. Postpartum, were to see bodies of all different shapes and sizes postpartum with scars and skin and discoloration and acne and loose skin. Like all of it. All of it, yes. So, and so that’s also one of the things to, I make sure around my house to, if I, it’s just me and my husband, like, I’ll just put like a sports bra on with like, I’m in Arizona, so super hot.

Dr. Morgan: So, put a sports bra on with like shorts. And like, let them see everything, like, it doesn’t need to, I mean, after I’ve eaten, like, I want them to see me with a stomach that’s full of food, I want them to see the discoloration, I want them to see the blemishes, I want them to see the rolls, I want them to see life.

Dr. Morgan: Right? I don’t want to be a quaffed manicured looking mom. I want them to see all the different types of things because that, again, is important. Right? It’s important for them to understand there’s diversity in body shapes and size. And your body doesn’t have to look like anybody’s body except for your own.

Stephanie: Yeah. And when we diversify the inputs of different body, We make different body normalized, even for children, because if we rely just on social, like standard social media and like TV, they’ll never have access to diversity. So we have to quote unquote force it almost.

Dr. Morgan: Yes, we really do. And so we talk about that, right? We talk about, being allies and inclusivity and on all subjects and all topics. It’s so important. Yes,

Stephanie: thank you for this because I think it’s going to help like having a professional counselor talk about the different ways that we can. Upward look at our relationship to our mom and influence the relationship we have with our own children.

Stephanie: I think that’s a tremendous tool and will alleviate a lot of sufferings in years to come. So thank you.

Dr. Morgan: You’re welcome. I’m happy to have this conversation.

Stephanie: How can people Get more of you where they can define you and work with you or if they can work with you

Dr. Morgan: The best way to find me is through instagram again one of the accounts what we you know, you and I promote a lot of the same messaging around body image and diet culture and food and your relationship with food.

Dr. Morgan: And so that’s a great resource. And then my email newsletter, which you can sign up through on my, my website, there’s freebies there that people can get, about body confidence. also I have a intuitive eating course. So it really goes through the 10 principles of intuitive eating. and I give really.

Dr. Morgan: Like tangible steps that a person can apply in their everyday life to make it much more manageable. And it is something that, like, you could do with a person, like a friend or a family member, to go on that journey together. and then I’m looking forward to this fall. I’ll have some webinars set up so that I can help educate people and give them that access to information.

Stephanie: You gave me this idea, like, wouldn’t it be nice to take the journey of intuitive eating with your mom?

Dr. Morgan: yes. I know. I’ve had clients do it and it’s really powerful. Like I had a mom and her teenage daughter do it together and it was awesome. It was like, gosh, like instead of going to Weight Watchers together.

Stephanie: Bingo. Like I’m thinking back to me dieting with the women in my family to now doing the intuitive eating journey. Wouldn’t

Dr. Morgan: it so much for having me. It was so nice to talk with you.

 

 

 

 

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374-One-on-One Coaching: 25 Ways It Changed Me Part 2

374-One-on-One Coaching: 25 Ways It Changed Me Part 2

1-1 Coaching: 25 ways it changed me Part 2

1-1 Coaching: 25 Ways It Changed Me Part 2

Many women have commented upon hearing my personal journey going from being a 25 years dieter to living a food freedom life and being body neutral as a fat woman and say, “I could never do that!”… I could have never done this on my own either. I had a lot of support along the way.

Today in this episode, I will take you behind the scenes and share with you 25 ways one-one  coaching contributed to me achieving my goals.

This is part 2 of 2 episodes.

What you’ll learn listening to this episode on 1-1 Coaching: 25 ways it changed me Part 2:

  • Why I decided to hire my first coach
  • 15 ways one to one coaching changed me

Mentioned in the show: 

Health Habits Checklist

Undiet Your Life Program

Non-Diet Coaching Certification

 

Transcript

Going Beyond The Food Show Episode 374-One-on-One Coaching: 25 Ways It Changed Me Part 2

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This is episode 374 of the Beyond the Food Show and this is part 2 of Coaching 101, 25 Ways That It Changed Me. You ready? Let’s do part two.

Welcome back to the show, my sisters. And we are going to do part two of one on one coaching and 25 ways that it changed me. And if you’re. So if you’re listening to this episode and you haven’t done part one, that’s my recommendation. because I set up the topic for you to understand why I’m sharing this and my personal story around one on one coaching.

So I will assume that all of you have listened to part one and I’m going to just go right into part two and give you 15 ways into which private coaching. Really changed me and allowed me to be here today recording this podcast. I want to clarify one thing before we moved into the 15 ways. I want to talk about the difference between group coaching and one on one coaching. Both are aimed to achieve the same goal, which is to get you from where you are today and achieving your goal, whatever that goal is in that circumstance of your life. The difference is between group coaching and one on one coaching is the individualization of the recommendation, the guidance, and the coaching. When you are in a group coaching format, the coach present. There to coach and answer question does not have your personal story does not have Your history does not know you Deeply like a one on one coach. So the Coaching that will be provided to you. So in most cases like for us inside of on diet your life It’s the same vehicle.

So we, our group coaching is hosted on Zoom, a virtual platform where for one hour, a coach is in that Zoom room available to coach you. It’s up to you to show up to that Zoom room with the URL we send you to show up and then to raise your hand. and to access the coach and asking question and giving them a circumstance that you need coaching with.

And the coaching you will receive will be as individualized as it is possible for the coach to make. The coach will like you. Ask you one or two questions to like really understand the circumstance and then provide coaching because they know you only from that interaction on the call. They know you for that an average 15 minutes that they have to be with you.

A one on one coach is with you for, in our case, inside of Undiet Your Life. Six months, every week, except the fourth week of every month where it’s a place of integration, but they’re there spending an hour with you and they have taken an in depth intake the very first appointment to understand your background, the things that have happened to you, really clearly understand your goal based on your life, your circumstance, right?

So there’s a lot more. Knowing of you as a client in a depth that group coaching cannot provide to you. So the individualization, the depth of coaching will be less in a group format. And that’s why the price is different between group coaching and one on one coaching. I love group coaching. Because it makes coaching accessible to everyone or most of everyone, right?

In our case, our group option to join Undie at Your Life is accessible.

It’s accessible to most people. Plus. We offer a payment plan system at no cost that allows that many more people to join when they’re able to pay the fee over a three month period. The one on one coaching is four times more expensive because you have to pay for the undivided, undisturbed attention. of a coach for one hour and the work that the coach is doing thinking about you and your circumstance between session to be prepared for the next session.

So yeah, it’s more potent and powerful to have a one on one coach. However, based on your circumstance, if you Have a financial circumstance that you can’t afford at this moment. One-on-one coaching, group coaching is the next best option for you to get, still access to a coach and get advice on your particular circumstance instead of being stuck in it.

So I wanted to explain the difference between the two to answer that. No matter who you are in your circumstance, you know that it is accessible to you. Just one more thing I forgot to say. In our case in On Diet Your Life, we have group coaching twice a month. So instead of being weekly, it’s twice a month that you then can access your coach or a coach from the program to help you versus the weekly for The one on one coaching.

The coaching itself is the same, like who coached for me during the group coaching is the same coach that can also be your one on one coach. So you have the same quality of coaching, the same professionalism of the coach, but not as long access to that coach or as in depth. Okay, I stopped on part one on The 10th way that one on one coaching changed me.

Let’s go on to 11. One on one coaching and group coaching based on your capacity and your accessibility is the cheapest way to get results. And for me, when I came, when I started to hire a coach for intuitive eating, that was my first point of access to one on one coaching. I wasn’t getting the success on my own and had been doing intuitive eating for I think it was close to eight or nine months and I was really frustrated with myself and quite honestly, I wanted to quit and that’s what drove me to get like this potentiality of failure is what drove me.

To go get a coach now would have started with a one on one coach from the get go. It would have been a lot faster and quite honestly, a lot cheaper to get the result because I would have got really unique ways of approaching intuitive eating for me, and it would have eliminated months of trial and error.

And quite honestly, a ton of mistake that I made trying to do it on my own. And I want to mention one more thing.

I’ve accessed coaching in my first career in a corporate world. I wasn’t paying for coaching. My company was paying for a coach for me. But it wasn’t stigmatizing to go get a coach. It was culturally very well seen to have a coach. She was… a sign that you really wanted to do well in your job and that you had value for the company when you were assigned a coach.

It meant nothing bad about you. When I came to the world of intuitive eating and diet culture, I was in that mindset. But what I realized when I started to sell coaching is that many women believe that getting a coach meant that they weren’t. Good enough to do it on their own. I want to address that because to me that’s bullshit.

That’s just another way that patriarchy keeps us stuck in diet culture is by Perpetuating the belief that asking for help is Means we aren’t good enough and it is not just in the context of food and body image. I was coaching someone on motherhood an hour ago, two hours ago, and we came through the same place that asking for help as a mother for her in her case.

Babysitting her child was a sign that she wasn’t a good mother. That, my sister, that belief that we should be able to do it alone, that asking for help means that we are less than, It’s part of the reason why we’re stuck wherever we’re stuck

with that in mind. We’ve got to change that belief and we’re going to ask for help. Whatever is accessible for you right now. 12th way coaching helped me experience more of life. I have to be quite honest with you, the life that I’m leading today in 2023 is pretty awesome for me. I have achieved a lot of my personal goal, things that I, ways that I wanted to live my life.

I’ve like crossed off the bucket list, like to what I want for my life. There’s not a lot left on the bucket lists. I live the life that I have been dreaming of 10 years ago. I’m a digital nomad. I travel six months of the year. I work from home. I don’t have to travel to work anymore. Like I make good money helping people like you.

That’s my, that was my dream life. I experienced a hell of a lot more of my life today. Then any time in the past,

why, because my coach showed me way that I was lying to myself. Things that I didn’t think were possible for me. Social construct that I thought I had no choice but to obey to, but in fact were optional. It’s because I had someone else, I had the courage, the vulnerability of asking someone else to look over my shoulder.

and show me what I was missing, what I wasn’t seeing. My blind spot, we’ll come to that in another point. My coach was showing me my blind spot and I was able to see them, address them and move on. So they were no longer blind. They were no longer holding me back to live my best life. And which leads me to the next point, the, one of the most potent way that one on one coaching helped me.

It was having the courage to pay someone to tell me what I needed to hear versus what I wanted to hear. This is so powerful. That’s the difference between friendship and coaching. Your friend is not your coach.I have conversation with friends that are vastly different than conversation with my coach.

My friends are there to listen to me, to empathize with me, right? When I’m having a shitty day, I can call my friend. Complain, they’re going to listen to me, they’re going to validate me, I’m going to hang up. When I go to my coach and I start complaining, my coach put a stop to this, they call me out on my bullshit, they show me how I play my victim mindset, they offer me a different perspective to put me back in my power and keep moving forward.

Your coach is not your friend. Your friend is not your coach. Your friend is paid to hear you say what you want to say. A coach is paid to hear you and tell you what you don’t want to hear so you can get to your goal faster. And you can get there, which is my point number 14. You can get to your goal faster with a heck of a lot less suffering.

And I’m going to tell you, I’m going to give you a short story on body image coaching. I hired two coach. One on one coach for body image. My first one was a disaster. The first one was teaching. She was from the philosophy. It’s very important that you research your coach, by the way. That’s why, like I offer coaching within my philosophy and my value and my approach to food and body image.

So, if you like me, my coaches will. coaching the exact same philosophy. Anyway, so I hired this coach who had the philosophy of body positivity. And she coached me into what she believed into, which is body positivity. And I had to put myself naked in front of a mirror and look at myself in the eyes, look at my body and say, I love myself.

I love myself. And I ended up with panic attack in a hospital and a lot of suffering when I ended the relationship with that coach, because I ended up with panic attack, I thought I was the problem and that spiraled me down for a good 6 to 12 months thinking, I’ll never be able to accept my body because look what happened when I hired this coach and like, I’m the problem when you find a When you’re matched with the right coach, when you find the right coach, the path to your goal will be difficult, it will be hard, but it will not require suffering.

It will eliminate the suffering. We have to be sure we’re not confusing having, like, experiencing hard These are two different things. When you’re pursuing a goal, it’s supposed to be hard. That’s not suffering. Suffering is depression, anxiety, emotional overwhelm, thinking of yourself as less than that. That’s suffering. A coach will prevent that, will prevent having to use willpower and will actually help you find the root cause of why you are where you are and what you need to do to get to where you want to be with less suffering, less time and less willpower. And that’s point number 15. How coaches do that is they allow you to be in your agency and they will teach you how to use your most powerful organ, not your willpower.

But your brain, it will teach you how to use your brain, how to be with your emotion so that you stay in your power or you cultivate your power if you’re disempowered,

which bring me to point 15 for me, one of my biggest gain of coaching has been. Learning to master my emotion instead of coping with my emotion. I talked about in part one of relating to our emotion, like the radar of our life. That’s the most potent gift that coaching has provided me is seeing my emotion as my partner.

Imagine that. Imagine if you could be in a relationship with your emotion that is a partnership instead of. A problem to solve, which brings me to point 17 coaching my coaches taught me how to respond to uncontrollable life event in the most productive way towards my goal, we can’t control. The uncontrollable.

And that’s a big step for us as people who have controlled food, right? We think if we could control food and life, our life will be better. No. Accepting that life is mostly uncontrollable, life circumstance, other people, your job. Politics, like all of that is on control, like you have no control on those things and seeking control is the path of suffering.

Instead, it’s about controlling what you can control in face of those event, which is you, your emotion and your brain. And that’s what coaching. Provides you with is like your coach will tell you, here’s how you’re currently seeing this and that creates this suffering for you. What about if you were to look at it this way?

Would you experience less suffering? What about this? And it gets you out of thinking there’s only one way of seeing things and why you’re Stuck not achieving your goal, but instead if you’re deciding to look at life in a way that matches with the path towards your goal, you’re going to get there faster.

One other thing that coaching has really brought forward to me is ending my relationship with being in a constant state of reaction and reacting to life. Instead of responding to life and when I sit with my coach and I unpack what has happened in the week prior, and I’m being presented with different ways of thinking and reacting to the thing, I.

Get to cultivate a different portfolio of ways of looking and thinking about things that allows me to choose my response instead of constantly being spinning like on the hamster wheel and constant reaction and reaction and. Put out that fire, put out that fire, and put out that fire, like being in that state is unproductive, reacting to life prevents you from achieving your goals.

You, we have to get off of the hamster wheel of reaction, move into a space of responding to life. In order for us to take action that are aligned with our goal, which one of the basic of life point 19 is being in a one on one coaching relationship allows me to witness my own goodness. Because again, it’s not just my brain.

Human brains are programmed to pick apart things that we’re doing wrong.

And when we do that, we’re constantly in the state of fixing ourselves. When you’re with a coach, part of a coach duty is to show you what you’re doing well and move you out of self criticism and in a space of acceptance. And they do that by. Looking neutrally at you and at your life and actually being cognizant of what we do well and telling us the things we’re doing well, so we can start recognizing it by ourselves and be our own source of validation point number 20.

I think I talked about it at length, but being in a coaching relationship is having a mirror that reflects the true version of ourselves. That we can, point number 21, see our blind spot and prevent the unproductive pattern towards our goal. And I’m going to finish with this. A coach is hired by your dream.

So you don’t fuck it up. I don’t know if it’s me who came up with that or if I read it somewhere, but that has stuck with me. When I’m embarking on a big project, a new creation in my life, I always default to hiring a one on one coach because I want to get there fast. Like I want to achieve the goal, live the dream that I want to live.

And I want to minimize as much as possible. Fucking it up because I know my brain is not wired to make this happens with he’s, it’s going to like prevent me from happening. So I’m going to like, fuck it up. I want to get there as fast as possible. So I came up with that coach that, that quote, sorry, that says a coach is hired by your dream, so you don’t fuck it up.

I may have read it somewhere, but I think it’s a pretty good definition of one on one coaching. At the end of the day, it helps us. Achieve the life we want to live, or solve the problem that we have so we can live the life that we want faster, easier, in a sustainable, consistent way. I hope this serves you well.

I would love to have questions from you. I’m an open book, as many of you have been listening to the podcast for a long time. If you have any specific question around one on one coaching, by all means, reach out to me on social media. I’ll be my pleasure to answer it. And if you are looking for a one on one coach in the area of mindset, emotions, body image, health and self acceptance.

I can match you with a coach that will fulfilled those 25 ways. I trained my coaches and my certification to provide that level and type of container for one on one coaches. So I’d be honored to help you with the right match for you. I love you, my sister, and I’ll see you on the next podcast.

 

1-1 Coaching: 25 Ways It Changed Me Part 2

This is episode 374 of the Beyond the Food Show and this is part 2 of Coaching 101, 25 Ways That It Changed Me. You ready? Let’s do part two.

Welcome back to the show, my sisters. And we are going to do part two of one on one coaching and 25 ways that it changed me. And if you’re. So if you’re listening to this episode and you haven’t done part one, that’s my recommendation. because I set up the topic for you to understand why I’m sharing this and my personal story around one on one coaching.

So I will assume that all of you have listened to part one and I’m going to just go right into part two and give you 15 ways into which private coaching. Really changed me and allowed me to be here today recording this podcast. I want to clarify one thing before we moved into the 15 ways. I want to talk about the difference between group coaching and one on one coaching. Both are aimed to achieve the same goal, which is to get you from where you are today and achieving your goal, whatever that goal is in that circumstance of your life. The difference is between group coaching and one on one coaching is the individualization of the recommendation, the guidance, and the coaching. When you are in a group coaching format, the coach present. There to coach and answer question does not have your personal story does not have Your history does not know you Deeply like a one on one coach. So the Coaching that will be provided to you. So in most cases like for us inside of on diet your life It’s the same vehicle.

So we, our group coaching is hosted on Zoom, a virtual platform where for one hour, a coach is in that Zoom room available to coach you. It’s up to you to show up to that Zoom room with the URL we send you to show up and then to raise your hand. and to access the coach and asking question and giving them a circumstance that you need coaching with.

And the coaching you will receive will be as individualized as it is possible for the coach to make. The coach will like you. Ask you one or two questions to like really understand the circumstance and then provide coaching because they know you only from that interaction on the call. They know you for that an average 15 minutes that they have to be with you.

A one on one coach is with you for, in our case, inside of Undiet Your Life. Six months, every week, except the fourth week of every month where it’s a place of integration, but they’re there spending an hour with you and they have taken an in depth intake the very first appointment to understand your background, the things that have happened to you, really clearly understand your goal based on your life, your circumstance, right?

So there’s a lot more. Knowing of you as a client in a depth that group coaching cannot provide to you. So the individualization, the depth of coaching will be less in a group format. And that’s why the price is different between group coaching and one on one coaching. I love group coaching. Because it makes coaching accessible to everyone or most of everyone, right?

In our case, our group option to join Undie at Your Life is accessible.

It’s accessible to most people. Plus. We offer a payment plan system at no cost that allows that many more people to join when they’re able to pay the fee over a three month period. The one on one coaching is four times more expensive because you have to pay for the undivided, undisturbed attention. of a coach for one hour and the work that the coach is doing thinking about you and your circumstance between session to be prepared for the next session.

So yeah, it’s more potent and powerful to have a one on one coach. However, based on your circumstance, if you Have a financial circumstance that you can’t afford at this moment. One-on-one coaching, group coaching is the next best option for you to get, still access to a coach and get advice on your particular circumstance instead of being stuck in it.

So I wanted to explain the difference between the two to answer that. No matter who you are in your circumstance, you know that it is accessible to you. Just one more thing I forgot to say. In our case in On Diet Your Life, we have group coaching twice a month. So instead of being weekly, it’s twice a month that you then can access your coach or a coach from the program to help you versus the weekly for The one on one coaching.

The coaching itself is the same, like who coached for me during the group coaching is the same coach that can also be your one on one coach. So you have the same quality of coaching, the same professionalism of the coach, but not as long access to that coach or as in depth. Okay, I stopped on part one on The 10th way that one on one coaching changed me.

Let’s go on to 11. One on one coaching and group coaching based on your capacity and your accessibility is the cheapest way to get results. And for me, when I came, when I started to hire a coach for intuitive eating, that was my first point of access to one on one coaching. I wasn’t getting the success on my own and had been doing intuitive eating for I think it was close to eight or nine months and I was really frustrated with myself and quite honestly, I wanted to quit and that’s what drove me to get like this potentiality of failure is what drove me.

To go get a coach now would have started with a one on one coach from the get go. It would have been a lot faster and quite honestly, a lot cheaper to get the result because I would have got really unique ways of approaching intuitive eating for me, and it would have eliminated months of trial and error.

And quite honestly, a ton of mistake that I made trying to do it on my own. And I want to mention one more thing.

I’ve accessed coaching in my first career in a corporate world. I wasn’t paying for coaching. My company was paying for a coach for me. But it wasn’t stigmatizing to go get a coach. It was culturally very well seen to have a coach. She was… a sign that you really wanted to do well in your job and that you had value for the company when you were assigned a coach.

It meant nothing bad about you. When I came to the world of intuitive eating and diet culture, I was in that mindset. But what I realized when I started to sell coaching is that many women believe that getting a coach meant that they weren’t. Good enough to do it on their own. I want to address that because to me that’s bullshit.

That’s just another way that patriarchy keeps us stuck in diet culture is by Perpetuating the belief that asking for help is Means we aren’t good enough and it is not just in the context of food and body image. I was coaching someone on motherhood an hour ago, two hours ago, and we came through the same place that asking for help as a mother for her in her case.

Babysitting her child was a sign that she wasn’t a good mother. That, my sister, that belief that we should be able to do it alone, that asking for help means that we are less than, It’s part of the reason why we’re stuck wherever we’re stuck

with that in mind. We’ve got to change that belief and we’re going to ask for help. Whatever is accessible for you right now. 12th way coaching helped me experience more of life. I have to be quite honest with you, the life that I’m leading today in 2023 is pretty awesome for me. I have achieved a lot of my personal goal, things that I, ways that I wanted to live my life.

I’ve like crossed off the bucket list, like to what I want for my life. There’s not a lot left on the bucket lists. I live the life that I have been dreaming of 10 years ago. I’m a digital nomad. I travel six months of the year. I work from home. I don’t have to travel to work anymore. Like I make good money helping people like you.

That’s my, that was my dream life. I experienced a hell of a lot more of my life today. Then any time in the past,

why, because my coach showed me way that I was lying to myself. Things that I didn’t think were possible for me. Social construct that I thought I had no choice but to obey to, but in fact were optional. It’s because I had someone else, I had the courage, the vulnerability of asking someone else to look over my shoulder.

and show me what I was missing, what I wasn’t seeing. My blind spot, we’ll come to that in another point. My coach was showing me my blind spot and I was able to see them, address them and move on. So they were no longer blind. They were no longer holding me back to live my best life. And which leads me to the next point, the, one of the most potent way that one on one coaching helped me.

It was having the courage to pay someone to tell me what I needed to hear versus what I wanted to hear. This is so powerful. That’s the difference between friendship and coaching. Your friend is not your coach.I have conversation with friends that are vastly different than conversation with my coach.

My friends are there to listen to me, to empathize with me, right? When I’m having a shitty day, I can call my friend. Complain, they’re going to listen to me, they’re going to validate me, I’m going to hang up. When I go to my coach and I start complaining, my coach put a stop to this, they call me out on my bullshit, they show me how I play my victim mindset, they offer me a different perspective to put me back in my power and keep moving forward.

Your coach is not your friend. Your friend is not your coach. Your friend is paid to hear you say what you want to say. A coach is paid to hear you and tell you what you don’t want to hear so you can get to your goal faster. And you can get there, which is my point number 14. You can get to your goal faster with a heck of a lot less suffering.

And I’m going to tell you, I’m going to give you a short story on body image coaching. I hired two coach. One on one coach for body image. My first one was a disaster. The first one was teaching. She was from the philosophy. It’s very important that you research your coach, by the way. That’s why, like I offer coaching within my philosophy and my value and my approach to food and body image.

So, if you like me, my coaches will. coaching the exact same philosophy. Anyway, so I hired this coach who had the philosophy of body positivity. And she coached me into what she believed into, which is body positivity. And I had to put myself naked in front of a mirror and look at myself in the eyes, look at my body and say, I love myself.

I love myself. And I ended up with panic attack in a hospital and a lot of suffering when I ended the relationship with that coach, because I ended up with panic attack, I thought I was the problem and that spiraled me down for a good 6 to 12 months thinking, I’ll never be able to accept my body because look what happened when I hired this coach and like, I’m the problem when you find a When you’re matched with the right coach, when you find the right coach, the path to your goal will be difficult, it will be hard, but it will not require suffering.

It will eliminate the suffering. We have to be sure we’re not confusing having, like, experiencing hard These are two different things. When you’re pursuing a goal, it’s supposed to be hard. That’s not suffering. Suffering is depression, anxiety, emotional overwhelm, thinking of yourself as less than that. That’s suffering. A coach will prevent that, will prevent having to use willpower and will actually help you find the root cause of why you are where you are and what you need to do to get to where you want to be with less suffering, less time and less willpower. And that’s point number 15. How coaches do that is they allow you to be in your agency and they will teach you how to use your most powerful organ, not your willpower.

But your brain, it will teach you how to use your brain, how to be with your emotion so that you stay in your power or you cultivate your power if you’re disempowered,

which bring me to point 15 for me, one of my biggest gain of coaching has been. Learning to master my emotion instead of coping with my emotion. I talked about in part one of relating to our emotion, like the radar of our life. That’s the most potent gift that coaching has provided me is seeing my emotion as my partner.

Imagine that. Imagine if you could be in a relationship with your emotion that is a partnership instead of. A problem to solve, which brings me to point 17 coaching my coaches taught me how to respond to uncontrollable life event in the most productive way towards my goal, we can’t control. The uncontrollable.

And that’s a big step for us as people who have controlled food, right? We think if we could control food and life, our life will be better. No. Accepting that life is mostly uncontrollable, life circumstance, other people, your job. Politics, like all of that is on control, like you have no control on those things and seeking control is the path of suffering.

Instead, it’s about controlling what you can control in face of those event, which is you, your emotion and your brain. And that’s what coaching. Provides you with is like your coach will tell you, here’s how you’re currently seeing this and that creates this suffering for you. What about if you were to look at it this way?

Would you experience less suffering? What about this? And it gets you out of thinking there’s only one way of seeing things and why you’re Stuck not achieving your goal, but instead if you’re deciding to look at life in a way that matches with the path towards your goal, you’re going to get there faster.

One other thing that coaching has really brought forward to me is ending my relationship with being in a constant state of reaction and reacting to life. Instead of responding to life and when I sit with my coach and I unpack what has happened in the week prior, and I’m being presented with different ways of thinking and reacting to the thing, I.

Get to cultivate a different portfolio of ways of looking and thinking about things that allows me to choose my response instead of constantly being spinning like on the hamster wheel and constant reaction and reaction and. Put out that fire, put out that fire, and put out that fire, like being in that state is unproductive, reacting to life prevents you from achieving your goals.

You, we have to get off of the hamster wheel of reaction, move into a space of responding to life. In order for us to take action that are aligned with our goal, which one of the basic of life point 19 is being in a one on one coaching relationship allows me to witness my own goodness. Because again, it’s not just my brain.

Human brains are programmed to pick apart things that we’re doing wrong.

And when we do that, we’re constantly in the state of fixing ourselves. When you’re with a coach, part of a coach duty is to show you what you’re doing well and move you out of self criticism and in a space of acceptance. And they do that by. Looking neutrally at you and at your life and actually being cognizant of what we do well and telling us the things we’re doing well, so we can start recognizing it by ourselves and be our own source of validation point number 20.

I think I talked about it at length, but being in a coaching relationship is having a mirror that reflects the true version of ourselves. That we can, point number 21, see our blind spot and prevent the unproductive pattern towards our goal. And I’m going to finish with this. A coach is hired by your dream.

So you don’t fuck it up. I don’t know if it’s me who came up with that or if I read it somewhere, but that has stuck with me. When I’m embarking on a big project, a new creation in my life, I always default to hiring a one on one coach because I want to get there fast. Like I want to achieve the goal, live the dream that I want to live.

And I want to minimize as much as possible. Fucking it up because I know my brain is not wired to make this happens with he’s, it’s going to like prevent me from happening. So I’m going to like, fuck it up. I want to get there as fast as possible. So I came up with that coach that, that quote, sorry, that says a coach is hired by your dream, so you don’t fuck it up.

I may have read it somewhere, but I think it’s a pretty good definition of one on one coaching. At the end of the day, it helps us. Achieve the life we want to live, or solve the problem that we have so we can live the life that we want faster, easier, in a sustainable, consistent way. I hope this serves you well.

I would love to have questions from you. I’m an open book, as many of you have been listening to the podcast for a long time. If you have any specific question around one on one coaching, by all means, reach out to me on social media. I’ll be my pleasure to answer it. And if you are looking for a one on one coach in the area of mindset, emotions, body image, health and self acceptance.

I can match you with a coach that will fulfilled those 25 ways. I trained my coaches and my certification to provide that level and type of container for one on one coaches. So I’d be honored to help you with the right match for you. I love you, my sister, and I’ll see you on the next podcast.

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373-One-on-One Coaching: 25 Ways It Changed Me Part 1

373-One-on-One Coaching: 25 Ways It Changed Me Part 1

One to One Coaching

One to One coaching is how I changed my life. 

Many women have commented upon hearing my personal journey going from being a 25 years dieter to living a food freedom life and being body neutral as a fat woman and say, “I could never do that!”… I could have never done this on my own either. I had a lot of support along the way.

Today in this episode, I will take you behind the scenes and share with you 25 ways one-one  coaching contributed to me achieving my goals.

This is part 1 of 2 episodes.

What you’ll learn listening to this episode:

  • Why I decided to hire my first coach
  • 10 ways one to one coaching changed me

Mentioned in the show: 

Undiet Your Life Program

Non-Diet Coaching Certification

 

Transcript

Going Beyond The Food Show Episode 373_One-on-One Coaching: 25 Ways It Changed Me Part 1

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this is episode 373 of the Beyond the Food Show, and today it is a personal episode where I’m gonna share with you 25 ways that one-on-one coaching change. Who I am, and I want you to think about that as a checklist to see if one-on-one coaching can help you specifically. Ready? Stay tuned.

Welcome back to the show, my sister, and today we’re gonna talk about one-on-one coaching or private coaching, and I’m gonna illustrate one-on-one coaching. I’m gonna define it, I’m gonna show you what it is with my personal life experience and What it contributed to my life and how it changed who I am.

And I wanna start with this. Many people will encounter me on social media, will start listening to my podcast, and they will hear me talk about my story and they will. I think they’re assuming that I am special or unique or. Gifted with a different, I don’t know, a different brain, a different personality that allow me to change my life the way that I did, and that kind of transformation is not for them because it’s just they can’t do it.

If that’s you, If you’ve never heard me talk about how I created the change in my life that I did, This episode is for you. Here’s what I want you to know. I did not do that on my own. I am not gifted with special skillset. I don’t have a better attune nervous system. I don’t have talents that you don’t have.

What I had, Is a lot of support and I wanna acknowledge the fact that I have, I had, and I have financial privilege that allow me to redirect some of my. Spending that wasn’t assigned to the basic of life like that, like the food and the shelter and all that basic needs of life. I had a surplus. Like most of you listening to this podcast, you’re probably in that financial privilege situation where you have more than the basic.

I had that too. So I had that financial privilege that some of you may not have, and then I decided over the last 10 years to redirect some of that, some of these finances and invest in me. and the medium by which I decided to invest in me was in one-to-one coaching, in private coaching, in hiring coaches, specialists in different field.

That allowed me to fast track different transformation in my life. So I hired a. 1 0 1 Intuitive Eden Coach. I hired a 1 0 1 body image coach. I hired a 1 0 1. Thought work coach. I hired a one-on-one nervous system coach. I hired people in different specialty that allow me to take that area of my life.

Really focus on it while being supported and fast track the embodiment of those skillset in me. That’s how I created the transformation in my life. I. I did it because I was supported along the way and it changed my life. So here’s what I wanna do with you today. I wanna go through, I did an exercise a few months back on finding.

25 different ways that coaching change aspects of my life. I did that with someone I’m working with, another, coach that I’m working with who asked me to do this homework and I thought, this could serve as a checklist for some of you listening to this to say, like, I heard about one-on-one coaching.

I’ve never experienced it. I don’t know if it can help me. So I want you to go through this, these next. Few minutes, and I’m gonna share this with you to say, okay, this is how it can help someone and could it help me? And I’m gonna illustrate that with my life, right? The best way for me to take those complex,

those complex elements, like one-on-one coaching that is foreign to most people is by illustrating it with. Real life stories. So I’m gonna open up my personal life to you so that you can see what one-on-one coaching look like. So let’s go through the basic here. So, hiring a one-on-one coach means you sit with someone privately, one-on-ones, either on zoom or face-to-face.

Now for me it was, it’s always been virtual. So all my one-on-one coach I met on Zoom. Every week for a predetermined amount of time. We set goals at the beginning of our time together, and then this individual met with me for 50 minutes every week and helped me implement the things I needed to implement in order to achieve the goal.

I had predetermined with this person. As I mentioned in the beginning, it was a very specific area of my life. So here’s the gift that these one-on-one coach container of coaching changed my life. Probably the most powerful way it helped me is by having someone else. Believing in my possibility to achieve this goal, right?

Having someone holding the belief that it is possible for me to achieve this goal. I. Was tremendously impactful because when you’re left alone with your brain, our like human brain, our human brain is wired to not believe that change is accessible to us because the way that one of the many ways that our brain keeps us safe in a very unsafe environment is by keeping our experience of life the same. So your brain works subconsciously to keep you in the same current experience of life you have. And when. So when you take a goal and you intentionally say to your brain, now we’re gonna change the way we experience food. Your brain is a little bit of a meltdown.

The brain will do everything to convince you. It’s not possible for you. Nothing has gone wrong. That’s the job of the human brain. So when you go into a goal of changing a part of your life, having an external person hold the belief for you that is possible to help you contradict your brain is so incredibly.

Powerful. So I would say that is the one of the most powerful way that one-on-one coaching can help you is having someone believe in what you want to achieve. Number two, coach will help you. Fight the limitation that your brain is imposing you. So when your brain offers you a reason why it’s not possible for you to achieve this goal, and you are convinced it is true, and you expose that thought to your coach on your next appointment, your coach will call bullshit on that perceived truth that you have, right? Like, and that happens when you start something new. The first weeks, the first months that you’re working towards a goal. Every week, it’s kind of come back to ground zero. It’s like, okay, I wanna achieve this. You talk with your coach, you feel all pumped.

You leave the coaching call, and then the next seven days, or six and a half days happen, and then you meet with your coach again and you’re like, Well, it worked really well the first couple days and then this happened, and now I’m convinced it’s not possible for me. Your coach will help you call bullshit and call truth when it’s truth and help you choose a new way of thinking about the situation that helps you fight for your limitation.

Three. My coaches taught me how to have my own back, and they called me out when I wasn’t doing that. When I was being unkind to myself, when I was being mean to myself, when I was being my enemy. My coach called me out and said, okay, like, you’re not nice to yourself right here. Let’s look at another way of approaching that will be kinder to yourself.

That’s what it means to have your own back, right? Is to be kind to yourself. And most of us, it’s funny ’cause I just posted on that on social media a couple days ago on how to tune out your. Self-critical mind, and so many of you engaged with the post and said, that’s exactly it. Like I’m mean to myself.

Nothing has gone wrong with your brain, like it’s normal for human brain to be mean to themselves. That’s how your brain keeps you in the current experience you are in. So having a one-on-one coach to call you out and to teach you how to be kind to yourself is so powerful. Fourth ways one-on-one coaching changed my life.

It helped me catch the wrong decision that I was doing towards my goal before I actually made them. And my coach always kept guiding me back to make intentional decision. I. That will enable me to reach my goal, and that’s what you do with a one-on-one coach. It’s a very private environment where two human talk to each other and get really intimate with each other, and so that you share.

Your thoughts, your decision, the way you’re approaching your goal, and this neutral coach, this other person on the other side of the camera who’s trained to be neutral, calm, and receptive, listens to you and say, actually, this thing you wanna do right now is not gonna get you to your goal. And then they propose you another way, another decision that will actually lead you to your goal. Do you know how powerful that is? Now, granted, you have to be willing to be vulnerable to share these decision, these thoughts with your coach, but that’s what coaching is about. And that so that they can course correct before catastrophe happen, right before you quit because it doesn’t work.

Fifth way that one-on-one coaching changed my life. Coaching taught me how to process my emotion, and I remember that that was very true in the first few coaches that PI hired until that skillset of processing my emotion became innate in me. But it took a good couple years. Of me processing my emotion with a professional, a coach that was forcing me to sit with my uncomfortable emotion so I can learn how to feel them and release them.

And help me move forward past the drama and the spining down cycle of those overwhelming emotion can bring forward instead of being alone. And that spiral down. And I’m sure when I’m sharing the term spiral down, many of you are like, oh my God, can we talk about this? Like, that was my reality too. I used to get caught in those spiral down cycle that sometimes would last weeks and months.

But when I was working with a coach, these spiral down weren’t lasting weeks and months because every week I was meeting with this coach I. I had this steady appointment every week, and then they would catch me, like really hold space for me feeling these emotions and then helping me process them, teaching me how to do it over and over again so I could leave the appointment in a more neutral, positive emotional state, and then continue for the next seven days to work toward my goal.

Powerful. Oh my God. Like you get to your goal so much faster when you’re not caught in those downward spiral for weeks and months.

Sixth way one-on-one coaching helped me. The outcome of what I just said in number five is being emotionally intelligent. So at every time I hired a coach to help me, I became more and more emotionally intelligent, and my coaches were able to meet me where I was in my journey of learning how to engage with my emotion and teach me new skillset at every level.

From the first coach who taught me to close my eyes and take a deep breath to the last coach who was teaching me somatic skills to process my emotion at a nervous system level, like I. These are different, more advanced every time skillset. So coaching is what taught me to become emotionally intelligent so that today I can face any emotion I.

Come out of those emotion still on my way, towards my goal. Seventh ways. that one-on-one coaching changed me. It allowed me to truly see myself. Let me explain. It allowed me to have someone look over me for an extended amount of time and see my patterns because each one of us individually have different thinking pattern and emotional pattern, and having someone witness you week in and week out.

They can see your pattern. They can call them out, name them for you, and create a plan for you to change these patterns. And these are the most desperate pattern. That I had. So I’ll take you the example of body image, right? So we’re gonna dial back the clock probably seven years ago when I quote unquote.

Finally, I. Decided to ask for help and hire a coach. That person was called me out quite honestly, on the fact that I wanted to be body neutral, but I kept not buying clothes to fit my body. I. And that pattern had been ongoing for three years. I had quit dieting three years ago when I was gaining weight, and I kept trying to fit my body in the same clothes, and I didn’t see that as a problem.

Right. And that coach saw that pattern and saw that pattern reflecting in many other parts of my life and was able to name it, call it, and help me change it so that I could achieve the goal of being a body neutral person. So being vulnerable in front of a coach and having a coach CD pattern and name them for you and create a plan to change them is what creates the result that you want towards your goal.

The next eight point that I’m gonna share with you is an overall kind of assessment of coaching, coaching. When you coach with a one-on-one coach,a professional coach, it’s like getting a master degree in your own human behavior. It’s like having this very intelligent mirror. Imagine the mirror like a big tall mirror, full body mirror, very intelligent with a very powerful computer train to teach you about your own specific human behavior, and show you which one is working and which one is not working.

You get to understand why you do what you do. Without shame, without blame, clearly outline why you do what you do so that you can change it once and for all, because you’re addressing the root cause of your behavior, of your pattern, of the reason why you don’t have what you have or what you wanna have in your life.

Right? That it is for me to become an intuitive eater, to become a body neutral person. Right to run my business. I’ve hired so many business coaches to different aspects of my business, so I can learn to do these things and create the result that I wanted. I’m telling you, getting a one-on-one coach, investing in a one-on-one coach for yourself will give you a master degree in your own human behavior and tools to change your behavior for the rest of your life.

another thing before I go to number nine. Coaching with a professional coach will not only help you change your behavior, but you will learn the process. That’s how I learn cognitive behavioral therapy and that’s how I learn cognitive behavioral coaching. ’cause I hired a therapist who was using cognitive behavioral therapy and I learn.

What she was doing with me, and then I started to apply it to myself on my own. when I wasn’t working with a coach, I was taking those skillset I learned, and then I became my own coach. So for an example, when I hired. Intuitive eating coach. I think I worked with this person for seven months and then I coach myself for intuitive eating for the rest of my life.

And then the same thing with body image. I worked with the coach I think for six months, and then now I’m my own coach. For my body image, so when body image stuff come up, I know exactly what to do. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, done. Because I’ve learned it, I’ve learned that skill while working with my coach. Ninth way that coaching changed who I am coaching reframed the event that were happening in my life.

Empowering way coaching my coach, was showing me, and this is kind of hard to say, but my coaches were very professionally showing me. Where I was being in a victim mindset, ‘ cause I had a lot of this, I had a lot of patterns in my brain to look at what was happening in my life as me being the victim and somebody else having power over me. What I didn’t realize as I’m saying that, is that when I was.

Victimizing myself, I was giving my power away to the other thing, the other person, and I could never feel powerful in that circumstance because I was the victim of someone else more powerful than me. And that’s kind of difficult just as I’m sharing that with you. That I used to have a lot of victim mindset, patterns of behavior, like you have to be vulnerable, but that’s the power of private coaching is you can be vulnerable very safely with your coach.

So they can see where you’re playing the victim, and then they can help you reframe these event in a way where you won’t be the victim, but actually where you can find your power and take responsibility for yourself to change your experience. These are the moments in your, in my coaching session and if you go down the path of hiring a one-on-one coach where I.

It’s very emotionally overwhelming. It’s emotionally overwhelming to have someone very compassionately telling you that you’re being, you’re playing the victim right now. ’cause you don’t wanna see yourself as a victim. None of us want to, none of us are proud to play the victim. That’s why it’s kind of even difficult to say it on the podcast, like no one wants to say, Hey, I’m a victim of my life, but we are wherever we are, not achieving what we want in our life.

I guarantee you, just like I was, you’re playing the victim in some part of this. And that is what you need to do to achieve. The goal is to stop playing the victim and take responsibility for yourself, and that’s what private coaching can do for you. I’m quickly realizing that I’m gonna go way over time, so we’re gonna have to do a part one and a part two of this.

I’m gonna show the 10th way that coaching changed me and then we’re gonna cut off the episode and come back for a part two of this, the 10th way. Working with a coach helps you create new beliefs, new ways of looking at things, new belief about specific area of your life that can liberate you from the situation you don’t want to live anymore.

So I’ll take the example of food and body image. So working with a coach. Helps you create very unique individualized beliefs about your body so you can liberate yourself from that culture. Because each one of us have a different story and a different life experience, and a different family system, and a different trauma log of what happened to us towards our body. So it is not true that everybody needs to think this belief. I know I often propose to you beliefs because you have, you’re not working one-on-one with me, so I kind of have to give you like, My body is a vehicle to experience life kind of belief, but you need some very specific one based on your own past and story, and that work you can do on your own, or you can work with a coach who can create very specific belief based on everything that happened to you in order to fast track your own liberation from that culture or the social context that’s very applicable to you.

All of it done from a place of power. So I hope this is helping you. I’m gonna come back with the last 15 ways that coaching helped me change my life. If as I’m sharing this here, your you are wanting, To work with a one-on-one coach. I want to offer to you that I do have resources for you. It mean that I train coaches in a cognitive behavioral modeling system and a, social justice intersectional coaching framework via the non-direct coaching certification, and I can.

Provide you through my company one-on-one coaching. So we offer that through Andie Your Life. You will see if you go to ww dot stephanie dozi.com/onie your life, you will see there’s two ways to join. My world. One is a group structure where you do the work on your own and you have access to biweekly group coaching call where you can have like a short bit of time with a coach, like a 10 to 15 minutes session with a coach, or we have a one to one.

Option to join on Diet Your Life to work with a coach that I have trained in my way of approaching diet culture that is skilled to coach you on. Mindset, emotional intelligence, food, body image, and health to help you progress to an undyed life very uniquely individualized for you. So that’s an option for you that where I can help you match you with a one-on-one coach.

We’ll come back on the next episode and I’ll share. 15 other ways that coaching has changed and made me who I am today and being able to record this episode. I’ll see you in the next episode.

 

One-on-One Coaching: 25 Ways It Changed Me Part 1

This is episode 373 of the Beyond the Food Show, and today it is a personal episode where I’m gonna share with you 25 ways that one-on-one coaching change. Who I am, and I want you to think about that as a checklist to see if one-on-one coaching can help you specifically. Ready? Stay tuned.

Welcome back to the show, my sister, and today we’re gonna talk about one-on-one coaching or private coaching, and I’m gonna illustrate one-on-one coaching. I’m gonna define it, I’m gonna show you what it is with my personal life experience and What it contributed to my life and how it changed who I am.

And I wanna start with this. Many people will encounter me on social media, will start listening to my podcast, and they will hear me talk about my story and they will. I think they’re assuming that I am special or unique or. Gifted with a different, I don’t know, a different brain, a different personality that allow me to change my life the way that I did, and that kind of transformation is not for them because it’s just they can’t do it.

If that’s you, If you’ve never heard me talk about how I created the change in my life that I did, This episode is for you. Here’s what I want you to know. I did not do that on my own. I am not gifted with special skillset. I don’t have a better attune nervous system. I don’t have talents that you don’t have.

What I had, Is a lot of support and I wanna acknowledge the fact that I have, I had, and I have financial privilege that allow me to redirect some of my. Spending that wasn’t assigned to the basic of life like that, like the food and the shelter and all that basic needs of life. I had a surplus. Like most of you listening to this podcast, you’re probably in that financial privilege situation where you have more than the basic.

I had that too. So I had that financial privilege that some of you may not have, and then I decided over the last 10 years to redirect some of that, some of these finances and invest in me. and the medium by which I decided to invest in me was in one-to-one coaching, in private coaching, in hiring coaches, specialists in different field.

That allowed me to fast track different transformation in my life. So I hired a. 1 0 1 Intuitive Eden Coach. I hired a 1 0 1 body image coach. I hired a 1 0 1. Thought work coach. I hired a one-on-one nervous system coach. I hired people in different specialty that allow me to take that area of my life.

Really focus on it while being supported and fast track the embodiment of those skillset in me. That’s how I created the transformation in my life. I. I did it because I was supported along the way and it changed my life. So here’s what I wanna do with you today. I wanna go through, I did an exercise a few months back on finding.

25 different ways that coaching change aspects of my life. I did that with someone I’m working with, another, coach that I’m working with who asked me to do this homework and I thought, this could serve as a checklist for some of you listening to this to say, like, I heard about one-on-one coaching.

I’ve never experienced it. I don’t know if it can help me. So I want you to go through this, these next. Few minutes, and I’m gonna share this with you to say, okay, this is how it can help someone and could it help me? And I’m gonna illustrate that with my life, right? The best way for me to take those complex,

those complex elements, like one-on-one coaching that is foreign to most people is by illustrating it with. Real life stories. So I’m gonna open up my personal life to you so that you can see what one-on-one coaching look like. So let’s go through the basic here. So, hiring a one-on-one coach means you sit with someone privately, one-on-ones, either on zoom or face-to-face.

Now for me it was, it’s always been virtual. So all my one-on-one coach I met on Zoom. Every week for a predetermined amount of time. We set goals at the beginning of our time together, and then this individual met with me for 50 minutes every week and helped me implement the things I needed to implement in order to achieve the goal.

I had predetermined with this person. As I mentioned in the beginning, it was a very specific area of my life. So here’s the gift that these one-on-one coach container of coaching changed my life. Probably the most powerful way it helped me is by having someone else. Believing in my possibility to achieve this goal, right?

Having someone holding the belief that it is possible for me to achieve this goal. I. Was tremendously impactful because when you’re left alone with your brain, our like human brain, our human brain is wired to not believe that change is accessible to us because the way that one of the many ways that our brain keeps us safe in a very unsafe environment is by keeping our experience of life the same. So your brain works subconsciously to keep you in the same current experience of life you have. And when. So when you take a goal and you intentionally say to your brain, now we’re gonna change the way we experience food. Your brain is a little bit of a meltdown.

The brain will do everything to convince you. It’s not possible for you. Nothing has gone wrong. That’s the job of the human brain. So when you go into a goal of changing a part of your life, having an external person hold the belief for you that is possible to help you contradict your brain is so incredibly.

Powerful. So I would say that is the one of the most powerful way that one-on-one coaching can help you is having someone believe in what you want to achieve. Number two, coach will help you. Fight the limitation that your brain is imposing you. So when your brain offers you a reason why it’s not possible for you to achieve this goal, and you are convinced it is true, and you expose that thought to your coach on your next appointment, your coach will call bullshit on that perceived truth that you have, right? Like, and that happens when you start something new. The first weeks, the first months that you’re working towards a goal. Every week, it’s kind of come back to ground zero. It’s like, okay, I wanna achieve this. You talk with your coach, you feel all pumped.

You leave the coaching call, and then the next seven days, or six and a half days happen, and then you meet with your coach again and you’re like, Well, it worked really well the first couple days and then this happened, and now I’m convinced it’s not possible for me. Your coach will help you call bullshit and call truth when it’s truth and help you choose a new way of thinking about the situation that helps you fight for your limitation.

Three. My coaches taught me how to have my own back, and they called me out when I wasn’t doing that. When I was being unkind to myself, when I was being mean to myself, when I was being my enemy. My coach called me out and said, okay, like, you’re not nice to yourself right here. Let’s look at another way of approaching that will be kinder to yourself.

That’s what it means to have your own back, right? Is to be kind to yourself. And most of us, it’s funny ’cause I just posted on that on social media a couple days ago on how to tune out your. Self-critical mind, and so many of you engaged with the post and said, that’s exactly it. Like I’m mean to myself.

Nothing has gone wrong with your brain, like it’s normal for human brain to be mean to themselves. That’s how your brain keeps you in the current experience you are in. So having a one-on-one coach to call you out and to teach you how to be kind to yourself is so powerful. Fourth ways one-on-one coaching changed my life.

It helped me catch the wrong decision that I was doing towards my goal before I actually made them. And my coach always kept guiding me back to make intentional decision. I. That will enable me to reach my goal, and that’s what you do with a one-on-one coach. It’s a very private environment where two human talk to each other and get really intimate with each other, and so that you share.

Your thoughts, your decision, the way you’re approaching your goal, and this neutral coach, this other person on the other side of the camera who’s trained to be neutral, calm, and receptive, listens to you and say, actually, this thing you wanna do right now is not gonna get you to your goal. And then they propose you another way, another decision that will actually lead you to your goal. Do you know how powerful that is? Now, granted, you have to be willing to be vulnerable to share these decision, these thoughts with your coach, but that’s what coaching is about. And that so that they can course correct before catastrophe happen, right before you quit because it doesn’t work.

Fifth way that one-on-one coaching changed my life. Coaching taught me how to process my emotion, and I remember that that was very true in the first few coaches that PI hired until that skillset of processing my emotion became innate in me. But it took a good couple years. Of me processing my emotion with a professional, a coach that was forcing me to sit with my uncomfortable emotion so I can learn how to feel them and release them.

And help me move forward past the drama and the spining down cycle of those overwhelming emotion can bring forward instead of being alone. And that spiral down. And I’m sure when I’m sharing the term spiral down, many of you are like, oh my God, can we talk about this? Like, that was my reality too. I used to get caught in those spiral down cycle that sometimes would last weeks and months.

But when I was working with a coach, these spiral down weren’t lasting weeks and months because every week I was meeting with this coach I. I had this steady appointment every week, and then they would catch me, like really hold space for me feeling these emotions and then helping me process them, teaching me how to do it over and over again so I could leave the appointment in a more neutral, positive emotional state, and then continue for the next seven days to work toward my goal.

Powerful. Oh my God. Like you get to your goal so much faster when you’re not caught in those downward spiral for weeks and months.

Sixth way one-on-one coaching helped me. The outcome of what I just said in number five is being emotionally intelligent. So at every time I hired a coach to help me, I became more and more emotionally intelligent, and my coaches were able to meet me where I was in my journey of learning how to engage with my emotion and teach me new skillset at every level.

From the first coach who taught me to close my eyes and take a deep breath to the last coach who was teaching me somatic skills to process my emotion at a nervous system level, like I. These are different, more advanced every time skillset. So coaching is what taught me to become emotionally intelligent so that today I can face any emotion I.

Come out of those emotion still on my way, towards my goal. Seventh ways. that one-on-one coaching changed me. It allowed me to truly see myself. Let me explain. It allowed me to have someone look over me for an extended amount of time and see my patterns because each one of us individually have different thinking pattern and emotional pattern, and having someone witness you week in and week out.

They can see your pattern. They can call them out, name them for you, and create a plan for you to change these patterns. And these are the most desperate pattern. That I had. So I’ll take you the example of body image, right? So we’re gonna dial back the clock probably seven years ago when I quote unquote.

Finally, I. Decided to ask for help and hire a coach. That person was called me out quite honestly, on the fact that I wanted to be body neutral, but I kept not buying clothes to fit my body. I. And that pattern had been ongoing for three years. I had quit dieting three years ago when I was gaining weight, and I kept trying to fit my body in the same clothes, and I didn’t see that as a problem.

Right. And that coach saw that pattern and saw that pattern reflecting in many other parts of my life and was able to name it, call it, and help me change it so that I could achieve the goal of being a body neutral person. So being vulnerable in front of a coach and having a coach CD pattern and name them for you and create a plan to change them is what creates the result that you want towards your goal.

The next eight point that I’m gonna share with you is an overall kind of assessment of coaching, coaching. When you coach with a one-on-one coach,a professional coach, it’s like getting a master degree in your own human behavior. It’s like having this very intelligent mirror. Imagine the mirror like a big tall mirror, full body mirror, very intelligent with a very powerful computer train to teach you about your own specific human behavior, and show you which one is working and which one is not working.

You get to understand why you do what you do. Without shame, without blame, clearly outline why you do what you do so that you can change it once and for all, because you’re addressing the root cause of your behavior, of your pattern, of the reason why you don’t have what you have or what you wanna have in your life.

Right? That it is for me to become an intuitive eater, to become a body neutral person. Right to run my business. I’ve hired so many business coaches to different aspects of my business, so I can learn to do these things and create the result that I wanted. I’m telling you, getting a one-on-one coach, investing in a one-on-one coach for yourself will give you a master degree in your own human behavior and tools to change your behavior for the rest of your life.

another thing before I go to number nine. Coaching with a professional coach will not only help you change your behavior, but you will learn the process. That’s how I learn cognitive behavioral therapy and that’s how I learn cognitive behavioral coaching. ’cause I hired a therapist who was using cognitive behavioral therapy and I learn.

What she was doing with me, and then I started to apply it to myself on my own. when I wasn’t working with a coach, I was taking those skillset I learned, and then I became my own coach. So for an example, when I hired. Intuitive eating coach. I think I worked with this person for seven months and then I coach myself for intuitive eating for the rest of my life.

And then the same thing with body image. I worked with the coach I think for six months, and then now I’m my own coach. For my body image, so when body image stuff come up, I know exactly what to do. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, done. Because I’ve learned it, I’ve learned that skill while working with my coach. Ninth way that coaching changed who I am coaching reframed the event that were happening in my life.

Empowering way coaching my coach, was showing me, and this is kind of hard to say, but my coaches were very professionally showing me. Where I was being in a victim mindset, ‘ cause I had a lot of this, I had a lot of patterns in my brain to look at what was happening in my life as me being the victim and somebody else having power over me. What I didn’t realize as I’m saying that, is that when I was.

Victimizing myself, I was giving my power away to the other thing, the other person, and I could never feel powerful in that circumstance because I was the victim of someone else more powerful than me. And that’s kind of difficult just as I’m sharing that with you. That I used to have a lot of victim mindset, patterns of behavior, like you have to be vulnerable, but that’s the power of private coaching is you can be vulnerable very safely with your coach.

So they can see where you’re playing the victim, and then they can help you reframe these event in a way where you won’t be the victim, but actually where you can find your power and take responsibility for yourself to change your experience. These are the moments in your, in my coaching session and if you go down the path of hiring a one-on-one coach where I.

It’s very emotionally overwhelming. It’s emotionally overwhelming to have someone very compassionately telling you that you’re being, you’re playing the victim right now. ’cause you don’t wanna see yourself as a victim. None of us want to, none of us are proud to play the victim. That’s why it’s kind of even difficult to say it on the podcast, like no one wants to say, Hey, I’m a victim of my life, but we are wherever we are, not achieving what we want in our life.

I guarantee you, just like I was, you’re playing the victim in some part of this. And that is what you need to do to achieve. The goal is to stop playing the victim and take responsibility for yourself, and that’s what private coaching can do for you. I’m quickly realizing that I’m gonna go way over time, so we’re gonna have to do a part one and a part two of this.

I’m gonna show the 10th way that coaching changed me and then we’re gonna cut off the episode and come back for a part two of this, the 10th way. Working with a coach helps you create new beliefs, new ways of looking at things, new belief about specific area of your life that can liberate you from the situation you don’t want to live anymore.

So I’ll take the example of food and body image. So working with a coach. Helps you create very unique individualized beliefs about your body so you can liberate yourself from that culture. Because each one of us have a different story and a different life experience, and a different family system, and a different trauma log of what happened to us towards our body. So it is not true that everybody needs to think this belief. I know I often propose to you beliefs because you have, you’re not working one-on-one with me, so I kind of have to give you like, My body is a vehicle to experience life kind of belief, but you need some very specific one based on your own past and story, and that work you can do on your own, or you can work with a coach who can create very specific belief based on everything that happened to you in order to fast track your own liberation from that culture or the social context that’s very applicable to you.

All of it done from a place of power. So I hope this is helping you. I’m gonna come back with the last 15 ways that coaching helped me change my life. If as I’m sharing this here, your you are wanting, To work with a one-on-one coach. I want to offer to you that I do have resources for you. It mean that I train coaches in a cognitive behavioral modeling system and a, social justice intersectional coaching framework via the non-direct coaching certification, and I can.

Provide you through my company one-on-one coaching. So we offer that through Andie Your Life. You will see if you go to ww dot stephanie dozi.com/onie your life, you will see there’s two ways to join. My world. One is a group structure where you do the work on your own and you have access to biweekly group coaching call where you can have like a short bit of time with a coach, like a 10 to 15 minutes session with a coach, or we have a one to one.

Option to join on Diet Your Life to work with a coach that I have trained in my way of approaching diet culture that is skilled to coach you on. Mindset, emotional intelligence, food, body image, and health to help you progress to an undyed life very uniquely individualized for you. So that’s an option for you that where I can help you match you with a one-on-one coach.

We’ll come back on the next episode and I’ll share. 15 other ways that coaching has changed and made me who I am today and being able to record this episode. I’ll see you in the next episode.

 

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Welcome!

 

I’m Stephanie Dodier 

Reformed Dieter. Nutritionist and Coach. 

I help women use their most powerful organ, their brain to stop obsessing with their weight and create an unshakeable level of confidence. Feel good in your skin now!

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Copyright © 2024 Stephanie Dodier. All Rights Reserved.

Copyright © 2024 Stephanie Dodier. All Rights Reserved.